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Talk:Sora's Heartless: Difference between revisions
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==Untitled== | ==Untitled== | ||
Don't we already have [[Shadow Form]]?[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 06:52, January 12, 2010 (UTC) | Don't we already have [[Shadow Form]]?[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 06:52, January 12, 2010 (UTC) | ||
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:Xehanort has completely lost his heart to the darkness, you know that. Come on, admit it. Sora was almost lost. Had he been totally lost, then you could make the same distinction for Xemnas and company. But you know Sora wasn't lost to the darkness. So stop beating round the bush. <big>'''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#6082B6">Sulu</font>]] [[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#00B7EB">mata</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#002E63">engkudu !</font>]]'''</big> 05:59, February 13, 2010 (UTC) | :Xehanort has completely lost his heart to the darkness, you know that. Come on, admit it. Sora was almost lost. Had he been totally lost, then you could make the same distinction for Xemnas and company. But you know Sora wasn't lost to the darkness. So stop beating round the bush. <big>'''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#6082B6">Sulu</font>]] [[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#00B7EB">mata</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#002E63">engkudu !</font>]]'''</big> 05:59, February 13, 2010 (UTC) | ||
Cococrash brought this up on my talkpage as well. I agree it is a form.-- | Cococrash brought this up on my talkpage as well. I agree it is a form.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 06:29, February 13, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:Form only, but not minor character. Like Kryten said, it's a branch of Sora. <big>'''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#6082B6">Sulu</font>]] [[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#00B7EB">mata</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#002E63">engkudu !</font>]]'''</big> 06:37, February 13, 2010 (UTC) | :Form only, but not minor character. Like Kryten said, it's a branch of Sora. <big>'''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#6082B6">Sulu</font>]] [[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#00B7EB">mata</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#002E63">engkudu !</font>]]'''</big> 06:37, February 13, 2010 (UTC) | ||
So, this disussion it over?-- | So, this disussion it over?--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 17:53, February 13, 2010 (UTC) | ||
I'm gonna touch on this subject again, this time I'm talking to Cococrash. Judging by your comments on both here and BebopKate's talkpages you obviously didn't understand my previous comment about words. Attempting to belittle others and such will get you nowhere, it will later result in a warning for mis-wiki conduct. Be nice, okay? | I'm gonna touch on this subject again, this time I'm talking to Cococrash. Judging by your comments on both here and BebopKate's talkpages you obviously didn't understand my previous comment about words. Attempting to belittle others and such will get you nowhere, it will later result in a warning for mis-wiki conduct. Be nice, okay? | ||
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:Well, for one it should be on AntiSora, not Sora's Heartless.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 02:42, 4 August 2012 (UTC) | :Well, for one it should be on AntiSora, not Sora's Heartless.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 02:42, 4 August 2012 (UTC) | ||
::Why should it be on AntiSora's page? It makes more sense for Sora's Heartless to be inside Sora rather than AntiSora. AntiSora is just a Heartless made to look like Sora where as Sora's Heartless is, Sora's Heartless. In coded Sora's Heartless has a Shadow form, a Darkside form and AntiSora form. So it could be either one who appears inside Sora during that Dive. But most likely it's Sora's Heartless. - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] ([[User talk:JTD95|talk]]) 11:24, 4 August 2012 (UTC) | ::Why should it be on AntiSora's page? It makes more sense for Sora's Heartless to be inside Sora rather than AntiSora. AntiSora is just a Heartless made to look like Sora where as Sora's Heartless is, Sora's Heartless. In coded Sora's Heartless has a Shadow form, a Darkside form and AntiSora form. So it could be either one who appears inside Sora during that Dive. But most likely it's Sora's Heartless. - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] ([[User talk:JTD95|talk]]) 11:24, 4 August 2012 (UTC) | ||
:::Because the Heartless takes on an AntiSora-like form. In actuality, it is only a Shadow. Sora doesn't have a bunch of Shadows flying around in there. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 14:33, 4 August 2012 (UTC) | |||
::::But why can't it be a bucnh of his Heartless flying around in there taking on an AntiSora-like form. I just seems wierd that you have three different versions of Sora floating in there and then you have regular Heartlesses rather than his own Heartless. - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] ([[User talk:JTD95|talk]]) 15:51, 4 August 2012 (UTC) | |||
:I'm pretty sure the Heartless was put to rest in coded, wasn't it? Or at least, the last remnants of it were. In either case, this seems like something that shouldn't be stated definitively without Ultimania backing.[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.177|192.249.47.177]] 16:20, 4 August 2012 (UTC) | |||
::Well the reason I had put it under Sora's Heartless in the first place would be because it ''fights'' like Sora's Heartless, by using light magic, while AntiSora's only ability was to transform into a flat shadow. Obviously it isn't his real heartless but, I believe that they we're representations of it much like those falling Sora's we're not the real Sora. --Lycropath 1:44, 4 August (PST) | |||
== Battle with ASoD == | |||
"Although restored to human form, Sora remains a pseudo-Heartless throughout his battle with Ansem, Seeker of Darkness." - when was this ever stated?--[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 11:06, 24 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
:Did you read the other sections? This one is a more complicated concept of Kingdom Hearts and explained in Secret Ansem Report 12: | |||
<blockquote>Likewise, Roxas is Sora's Nobody, but was left behind because Sora's Heartless regained human form using Kairi's heart instead of his own.<br> | |||
It may be that Sora's memories are slow to return because the half of him that is Roxas is still lacking.</blockquote> | |||
:Bascially Roxas is Sora's body and soul (and Ven's heart) and Sora just a walking heart and incomplete until the beginning of KHII. --[[Special:Contributions/77.188.28.191|77.188.28.191]] 16:54, 24 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
== "Human form" nitpicking == | |||
I was, as I'm sure many others have been, thrown off by this "pseudo-Heartless" ridiculousness claimed for Sora's state between regaining human form and Roxas rejoining him. From the quotes given in prior sections... | |||
:Axel: There was a time he became a Heartless. And if one becomes a Heartless--- | |||
:Larxene: They lose their minds and their feelings... They're consumed by the darkness. | |||
:Axel: Right. But not Sora. He held on to his feelings, even as a Heartless. And there's only one other man who's been able to do just that. | |||
... | |||
:Likewise, Roxas is Sora's Nobody, but was left behind because Sora's Heartless regained human form using Kairi's heart instead of his own. | |||
:It may be that Sora's memories are slow to return because the half of him that is Roxas is still lacking. | |||
... | |||
:[insert Sora's "falling into darkness" lines from KH1 here] | |||
That last set used by Coco to argue that Sora's Heartless (as the playable Shadow) was a separate entity. While this Shadow form is generally agreed as an altered state, at least of what parts of Sora it concerns (though I'm still lost on how a Pureblood could contain a heart), I'm not sold on referring to Sora's human form as "Sora's Heartless's human form". The quotes above very easily suggest as much, especially in comparing him to "only one other man", here I'm presuming to be Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, who very much could be considered a "human form" and "a Heartless". But the language could also, if not with a bit of strain, read, "He held on to his feelings, even as a [Shadow] Heartless," and, "Sora's Heartless [reverted to being Sora] using Kairi's heart," though the latter has the condition of "as much of Sora as is available to be". | |||
Basically, that Sora (as Sora's Heartless) became Sora (as an incomplete being), rather than Sora's Heartless (as a Shadow) becoming Sora's Heartless (as a human). Is there anything more absolute in its wording, from an Ultimania or something, saying that the incomplete Sora from late KH1 to early KH2 is a Heartless? If not, I think the wiki's phrasing should be similarly indefinite, and/or at the least use the relevant quotes that have lead its editors to the current conclusion. [[User:TJF588|TJF588]] ([[User talk:TJF588|talk]]) 01:08, 11 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
:To expand on the comparison to SoD!Ansem, is there any significant differences to the build or facial features of that character compared to Xemnas (or even T-Xehanort)? Since it has been shown that Organization members' human builds are no significantly different, if at all, from their Nobodies' (at least, Lea's just as disturbingly lanky as Axel), then SoD!Ansem differing from Xemnas would suggest that, despite looking human, SoD!Ansem might not be considered a "human form", which presumably Xemnas identically resembles (hair styles aside on all counts). If SoD!Ansem then isn't a "human form", the comparison to Sora may purely be of "Sora's [Shadow] Heartless" and "Xehanort's [human-like] Heartless". This reads as overcomplicated even to me, but the KH series itself is overcomplicated, so I'll argue it until sufficiently shot down. [[User:TJF588|TJF588]] ([[User talk:TJF588|talk]]) | |||
== Re:coded == | |||
Do we have the ability to rip the model of the full Darkside form?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:39, 8 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
==True Form== | |||
In the "Appearance" section of this page, it says "then as an AntiSora, then finally as the Shadow that serves as its true form." So, the AntiSora is ''not'' it's true form. It's true form is a Shadow (unless this information is incorrect). --[[User:Elfdemon|Elfdemon]] ([[User talk:Elfdemon|talk]]) 22:36, 24 February 2016 (UTC) | |||
:According to the game page, the AntiSora is the True Form. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 08:11, 25 February 2016 (UTC) | |||
::Do you know which page is the incorrect one? --[[User:Elfdemon|Elfdemon]] ([[User talk:Elfdemon|talk]]) 08:21, 25 February 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::Neither are incorrect. "True Form" is the name of the AntiSora-looking thing, according to the Ultimania, while the Shadow is its true form according to the plot. It's an Ansem/Ansem situation.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:34, 25 February 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::Oh, okay. --[[User:Elfdemon|Elfdemon]] ([[User talk:Elfdemon|talk]]) 00:43, 26 February 2016 (UTC) | |||
==Data-Heartless or Separate?== | |||
Up until now, I've always thought Sora's Heartless in Coded was a digitized version based on data that became more than just data, similar to Data Sora who developed his own identity. This article seems to claim something else, that is, when Kairi turned Sora back into his normal self, his Heartless seemed to form an identity of its own and somehow invade the journal before it was digitized. How did that happen, and when/where was this confirmed? [[User:Diamonddeath|Diamonddeath]] ([[User talk:Diamonddeath|talk]]) 10:46, 3 March 2016 (UTC) | |||
:The article is claiming the first thing you said. I can't really see where you're coming to the second interpretation, can you please clarify what in the article is leading you to it?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:03, 3 March 2016 (UTC) | |||
== Data-Sora's Heartless == | |||
By any chance, does "Data-Sora's Heartless" as a name ever appear in full in a canon source? If so, can we create it as a redirect, and bold it in the lead?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:12, 15 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
== Physical Form == | |||
So, all references to Sora being a Heartless from the end of KH1 to the beginning of KH2 have been removed from the page. | |||
If that's no longer accurate, should the 'Physical Form' tab still even be here? I don't think Sora's Heartless ever looked like that, if he wasn't one after Kairi revived him. --[[File:Riku Sprite KHD.png]] [[User:Mikoto|mikoto]] 04:21, 28 March 2023 (UTC) | |||
:I agree. I did a quick scan through ''Re:coded'' to double check that the data version of Sora's Heartless also didn't take Sora's appearance, but it's just the two boss forms. I'll go ahead and remove it from the page. —[[User:Aid1043|Aid1043]] ([[User talk:Aid1043|talk]]) 03:12, 29 April 2023 (UTC) | |||