Talk:Riku Replica

Night Falcon - A faithful replica until the very end TALK - That's good enough. Ok I'm here what now?

This discussion shouldn't be here... my bad. It should be at Game talk:Riku Replica. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Quotes Section

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— {{{time}}} Does anyone else agree that Repliku's quote section has gotten way out of hand! they're around 50 !!! There is no need to quote almost every line she speaks! I say we bring them down to, say, 20 tops! anyone agree?

Guardian Soul Talk. — Don't I even warrant a hello? It's such a shame. The Organization used to be the rope that bound us together. - {{{time}}} Oh definitely. There's way too many quotes there.

This is a recurrent problem for many characters, in fact. As I told Azul, we used to have a limit of 10 quotes or so, until some anonymous IP addresses came and broke the limit altogether. How much should be the allowed number of quotes, anyway ? Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— {{{time}}} I say that we keep 10, but if necessary, 15 tops!

See User talk:Azul81677 - there's a section on quotes. Thus far, four people have agreed with 10 (and if we count you in, that's five). Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— {{{time}}} will do :P

Tragic Villain Question

Flashpenny - You'll wear the face of despair. TALK - Where's the fun in this? I just put this down in the Trivia section and want to see if anyone approves. Does anyone else think that the Riku Replica is the only major antagonist in the trilogy (it's a trilogy until more games come out) who could be called a tragic villain.

I do ! I'm as good as new! All my functions have been restored! • TroisNyxÉtienne

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - I'm so sorry... Yeah...I feel really sorry for Repliku...In the end of Sora's story...He was actually kind...Poor thing...

Flashpenny - You'll wear the face of despair. TALK - Where's the fun in this? Alright then, it stays.

Honestly, he seems more like an anti-hero. Veroso 16:55 29 May, 2009

KrytenKoro - "That's when we bumped into Hannity. Sean Hannity. See the thing about this dude is, at first he's fair, right? And you're like "Wow!" But then BOOM. The dude's balanced, too. And you're like, HOLY SHIT." TALK - He has a really weird situation. He's not really an antagonist, because it's actually Sora that's interfering with him and making a mess of things, it's just that we see it from Sora's point of view. Replica Riku was pretty much content to just sit there protecting Namine. 'course, he had a different personality when he was first created, but I honestly can't decipher what he was actually trying to do besides test himself against Riku that one time.

Flashpenny - You'll wear the face of despair. TALK - Where's the fun in this? Generally a tragic villain is an antagonist you feel sorry for. This guy tried to kill Sora, Marluxia and Riku (and actually killed Zexion) because of the same reason, he wanted to become his own self. Besides an anti-hero is generally someone who is doing heroic things but for selfish methods. The only time that could be true is just before the fight with Marluxia and even then it's debatable (he was protecting Namine at the time). Let's just keep it until we can clear this up.

KrytenKoro - You should have figured out whether bodies age without their hearts, Nomura. TALK - He's not a villain, though. To be a villain, you have to be actively trying to commit evil; Riku Replica only reacted against Sora's incursions. He tested himself against Riku once, but once his memories were modified, all he wanted to do was protect Namine. It was Sora who kept on making a mess of that, and starting the fights. As for trying to kill Marluxia and Zexion, so? So did Riku and Sora, who are clearly the protagonist heroes of the game. I think we could call him an anti- or tragic hero, but he's definitely not a tragic villain.

The thing is, no matter what, he's not on Sora's side. I think we should use the term "antagonist" since it's technically morally neutral while at the same time opposing the protagonist (Sora).—Urutapu 20:01, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - One day, the light-it will be ours, and it will bring us together. Til then, I'll be in your heart... What do mean he's not on Sora's side? If he wasn't, he could've killed him by now, right? But he didn't, we just walk away, saying that Sora is a good guy, and he doesn't need to be real to see it! Repliku is a tragic villian, all right! I feel sorry for him when he died. It seems to be even the real Riku felt sorry for him!

I just want to thank KrytenKoro for (kinda) agreeing with me. And I have to say that if the Riku Replica had found out Namine wasn't really his friend, and of he had somehow gotten angry at Sora for this and had tried to kill him, and then Sora had killed him, that would make him a tragic villan. But that didn't happen. Veroso 21:23 30 May, 2009

om this note I suggest a comparison to Xion.

Flashpenny - You'll wear the face of despair. TALK - Where's the fun in this? Watch either the 2nd or 3rd Pirates of the Caribbean movies or The Dark Knight. Take an example like Davy Jones. He's a tragic villain because he's doing bad stuff like killing and marauding but only because his one true love ditched him. In The Dark Knight, Two-Face is a tragic villain because his face got set on fire and he feels that he's been cheated because his love was also taken from him. Granted Repliku didn't have a cheated love life but he's still a tragic villain. He's not evil but he's not a good guy. You have to feel kinda sorry for him. That's what a tragic villain is. An anti-hero is someone who's on the hero's side but for selfish reasons. A tragic villain is basically the polar opposite: they're playing the villain's game because they got cheated and they feel the world should be cheated too. Also to whoever said that above me I haven't played 358/2 Days (and won't until some time after September 29th) but is Xion the main villain in that game. Because I read a bit of her plot and endgame and that does seem like a tragic villain but I dunno unless I know that she's actually the game's main antagonist.

Besides, he wasn't the only tragic villain, couldn't the Experiment be considered a tragic villain?(Bananaphone1996 02:34, August 8, 2010 (UTC))

It's an opinion, pure and simple. You could consider all of the nobodies tragic in some way, since their main goal is just to be whole again. Xehanort, a main corrupted by darkness, by his own choice and foolishness, is tragic in a way. The actual articles aren't the place for opinions, but they're great to have, and we have forums so people can voice them.LapisLazuliScarab02:39, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

"Replica" Page?

xNaminéx - 大キライだけど好き! TALK - I am...glad. I've been thinking, and I think it may be worth-while to create an article on the Replica.....race, if you will. A general description of Replicas. I mean, there's only been two so far, but both of them where fairly important to the storyline. Also, there seems to be powers unique to the Replicas. Yes? No?

Nitrous X Talk! — Then I shall make you see...That your hopes are nothing. Nothing but a mere illusion! Don't I even warrant a hello, Lexaeus? Good idea

Better Picture

Nitrous X Talk! — Then I shall make you see...That your hopes are nothing. Nothing but a mere illusion! Don't I even warrant a hello, Lexaeus? Can someone upload a better picture of Riku Replica, the current one is way too grainy.

The Emblem's Appearances

"The only time when the Replica did not have a Heartless emblem on its chest was when he first bumped into Sora."

Correction. The emblem was also absent when the Replica first met Riku. The scenes in Re:Chain of Memories for Riku's story support this statement. JudgmentDay95 15:23 10 July, 2009

xNaminéx - 大キライだけど好き! TALK - I am...glad. Ok. I'll change it...

Battle Stance

Eternal Nothingness XIII - I'm not afraid of what the darkness holds now. Even if you do wrest control of my heart from me, even if you cast me into the deepest, darkest abyss, you'll never sway me from the one cause that pushes me to keep on fighting. Whatever the cost, I'm ready to pay it. TALK - There's darkness within me... So what does that matter? I know I'm strong enough to hold it back. — 13:29, 22 August 2009 (UTC) We state that the RR has a different battle stance than Riku in ReCoM. I've never noticed this, unless it was a very subtle change. As far as I know, the Replica and Riku still implement the whole "one arm raised and one arm out" stance, regardless of their differences. If everything else is similar (besides the obvious) between the two Rikus, shouldn't their poses also be identical?

xNaminéx - 大キライだけど好き! TALK - I am...glad. I've never seen a difference, either.

The image

I meant to just rescale it so there wasent as much pixelation seen, But i broke it instead. Does anyone know how to fix it?

I got it. --James Havoc 03:16, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia

Other than the Manga thing what does anything else in the trivia have to do with him? The battle trivia doesn't even make sense on what it's supposed to mean. The Repliku is a fan name. We don't include those right? And that last one... Isn't written that great... EDIT:Ok. But what does that one that is left have to do with anything? Am I just not letting my imagination flow? Randomnessity Looks like you're already prepared.

It was unimportant..hence deletion. One less article without trivia! ^^--Xion4ever 04:07, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

I'm wondering why I didn't do that myself... Trust your instincts Random! I almost feel bad for the poor trivia...--Random!to a point! 04:09, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

The Image

Umm...

I was just wondering why the pic of data Riku is being used for the Replica?

Is it that Data Riku is in fact the Replica

If not, then I believe that the image should be reverted, as the pic is one of Data Riku and not one of the Riku Replica.--Raph the Great 19:06, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Good point. Why is Data-Riku's image is at Riku Replica's page?--NinjaSheik 18:38, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Because the Riku Replica wears the black coat in KH3D. maggosh 18:39, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, but this is like having an image of Data-Sora as the main pic on Sora's page. Same look, but different characters, I just don't think it should be the main image on this page. maybe have somewhere on the page, but even then, we could just have a picture of him in the cutscene in KH3D. maybe if we can get the model of him as he appears in KH3D then we could make a render.

But if the Dark mode picture of him is a picture of Riku's Dark Mode, then I guess we can leave the Data Riku pic.--Raph the Great 19:06, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

"maybe if we can get the model of him as he appears in KH3D then we could make a render." Oh, so you know a way of decompiling a 3DS game now? Anyways, Riku Replica has so far appeared in 3 outfits, the cloak, the Dark suit and Riku's normal clothes. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off. - Erry 19:10, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Riku, Riku-Replica, and Data-Riku each appear in Riku's normal clothes, in the Dark Mode, and in the Black Coat. By intent, these forms are exactly identical in appearance, and so the only reason not to use the images interchangeably is that they were released with a game that depicted a different copy of the character. However, in-universe these images all depict the same "shape".

On a related note, we use the Re:coded images for various Disney characters throughout the wiki, despite them accurately representing the "Data" versions. If absolutely necessary for consensus, we can rename all of these images as if they were Riku in whichever game he first wore the respective outfit, but as for using screenshots: there is no benefit in using lower-quality images to illustrate the same thing when we have higher-quality versions.

On a side note, I heavily dislike lead images ever being the Black Coat version of a character, and would like to suggest (as a faint desire, not as a position I'm committed to) the option that we use the alternate outfit for a Black Coat character when available. (This could affect Mickey, Roxas, Ansem the Wise, Master Xehanort (do we have an image of him in his Black Coat?), Young Xehanort, Ansem SoD, Xemnas, Riku Replica, Riku, and Data-Riku.)"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 19:46, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Heavily against your idea, KrytenKoro. I personally believe the Dark Mode image should be left up, because it's never actually stated if that even is the Riku Replica. - 24.63.239.203 21:36, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

It's implied, considering the fact Riku says "That's the darkness from my past" or something along the lines of that and then inquires the player to read the "Chain of Memories" chronicle. All these point to Riku Replica who was created in Chain of Memories and also is within Riku's past as well as using Darkness. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off. - Erry 21:56, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Which idea? Showing the unique costumes, as we already do for most of these, or that it's the Riku Replica, which is all-but-explicitly-stated by the game?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 16:56, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Riku, Riku Replica and Data-Riku look exactly the same, there is no reason not to interchange their images if needed. Also there is no new render for Riku Replica available, I think the Ultimania doesn't even mention him once. If I remember correctly I named the file "Riku Replica KH.png" more than a years ago because even if it was used for the fight against Riku with his Soul Eater in all guides, the name would become to convoluted (like "Riku (Dark Mode with Soul Eater) KH.png" or something like that) so naming it after Riku Replica (which is also the only image apart from his cards that is directly associated with him until know) was more convinient and we hadn't used a KHCOM prefix then yet, so it was KH. --ShardofTruth 17:55, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I think we can either name that image "Riku (Dark Mode) KH.png", or fudge and call it "Riku Replica KHCOM.png".192.249.47.177 19:45, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

The first option is the way we normally take so I'm okay with that, but what about "Riku (Dark) KH.png", shouldn't we rename that one too? --ShardofTruth 20:07, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Dream Drop Distance

We don't know if the Riku who appeared in Monstro in KH3D was the Riku Replica or if it was a version of Riku possessed by Ansem. Riku seemed to think it was the latter, since he essentially said "I've faced a dark imitation of myself before and now I'm fighting my actual dark side," like this Dark Riku and the Riku Replica were two separate dark sides of himself. It's definitely possible that it's the Riku Replica, and I actually sort of think it is, but it's not a certainty. The way the article is written now makes it seem like it was implicitly implied that it was Repliku, but I can't think of how to rewrite it to not sound that way, since this is the Replica's article. Fabala011 (talk) 17:49, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Doesn't Xehanort specifically state that Riku, despite giving in to darkness at one point, was unusable because he had become immune? It seems pointless that they would bring back Dark Riku, then, especially since (1) It's basically just Ansem SoD, and (2) even if time travel was involved, you'd think Riku would resist fighting himself even while possessed. I dunno, I guess we need ultimania clarification on this."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 18:57, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

"implicitly implied that it was Repliku", it was. After that cutscene a memoir menu comes up asking if you want to read up on Chain of Memories. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off. - Erry 19:25, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

And even this alone is quite reliable, as almost all the other memoirs come up after a relevant scene. Additionally, bringing in a Dark Riku would be pointless because even though his surroundings might change, he would likely still try to fight off the darkness inside him, just like he already did. LightRoxas 21:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

"that's not enough proof. what's proof is that this is not the original riku, but looks just like riku at the end of com who riku replica looks just like only wearing a black coat. it only makes sense to leave it as is." - Erry

You just said yourself that we don't know for sure who this is. It could be Riku when he leaves Castle Oblivion, it could be Riku Replica, t could be just a dream version of Riku, or it could be something else. There's not enough proof for this character to be Riku Replica. - Joseph Thorn Dalton ^XCV 15:59, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

It's implied, and that's enough proof for me. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off. - Erry 16:56, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Riku says, "That was my... my dark side. I gave in to the darkness once. And ever since, it's chased me around in one form or another. The Seeker of Darkness who stole my body... a puppet replica of the shadows in my heart... and now, I'm facing me."

Riku didn't say that this particular person was Riku Replica, he only referenced him. He references Ansem, he references Riku Replica and then he says that the guy he just met was himself. Implying that he was nothing more than a representation of his darkness. Probably a dream representation of Riku from when he kidnapped Pinocchio. Also notice how you don't unlock the Chain of Memories Chronicle when the unknown removes his hood, but when Riku references Riku Replica. - Joseph Thorn Dalton ^XCV 17:12, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm still sticking with the Riku Replica, until later confirmation because you don't just pull a "oooh all connected" like that and it's not even connected. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off. - Erry 17:58, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Based on the chronicle, and also the fact the scene mirroring Sora's with Vanitas, and finally that requiring it to be a dream self would require introducing another character...the most responsible thing right now is to cover this on the Riku Replica page until we get clarification from the next game or an ultimania. If we must, we can say that the character is not explicitly identified, but this is still the best place to cover the character."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 19:25, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Since we're not sure if this Riku is Vexen's replica, we shouldn't have the Riku in the Black Coat as the infobox image. The one in Chain of Memories died after being defeated by the real Riku in Twilight Town. If someone were to time travel to retrieve him, wouldn't someone mention that in the game? Riku didn't say it was his Replica. He said it was his dark side. Since the game is about dreams like the movie Reception, that Riku is more likely a dream version of Riku and not Vexen's replica. SeanWheeler (talk) 21:24, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't know about any movie called "Reception", but I agree. Riku doesn't even say that it's the Replica. He sees a personification of his dark side (remember how when he was "evil", he took Pinocchio captive in Monstro much like the mysterious boy did?), and it reminds him of how he once submitted to darkness and how that fact has followed him on his journey in various forms. He mentions the Seeker of Darkness who stole his body, and the replica of the shadows in his heart. It's more like seeing the "dark side" again makes him reflect on his past; he's not saying "That was the replica." - Eternal Nothingness XIII 22:14, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Exactly, which is why the infobox image needs to be changed back to Riku's Dark Mode. Just because he looks like Riku, doesn't mean it is the Replica made by Vexen. According to the scene, it was a personification of Riku's dark side. Riku referenced Vexen's Replica to give the player a memoir of Chain of Memories. Having Data Riku's image in the infobox was the effect of speculation. I tried to replace the image with the picture of Riku Replica from Re:Chain of Memories but Maggosh reverted my edit without a reason. Why, Maggosh? I was trying to remove speculation and you put it back in. I made the right edit, didn't I? SeanWheeler (talk) 23:07, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree. I see no point in having the infobox image be black coated Riku. It doesn't even make any sense. The doppleganger that appears in KH3D being the same as the Riku Replica in KHCoM is nothing but speculation. For all we know, that could've been nothing more than an illusion created by Young Xehanort and/or Ansem. It makes much more sense that infobox image be Dark Mode Riku.

(Oh and about that movie mentioned earlier, I think you were thinking about "Inception".) Blackchaos27 (talk) 19:04, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Darn you Erry! You undid my edit and protected the page even though the Dark Mode Riku is the correct image and it makes no sense to have the image to be Riku in the Black Coat. Erry and Maggosh are insisting that the Black Coated Riku was Vexen's Replica, even though we have pointed out evidence about it not being Vexen's Replica and that is an act speculation which is against the rules of the mainspace making you hypocrites. SeanWheeler (talk) 23:00, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Here's what we know:

1. A copy of KH1/CoM-era Riku appears before Riku in Prankster's Paradise. After it disappears, the Chronicles for KHCoM shows up.
2. All other Chronicles appear after scenes that depict characters from that game; Days is obtained after the Roxas-Axel scene is revisited, BbS is obtained after Vanitas is shown, KH1 is obtained after Ansem is shown, KH2 is obtained after Xemnas is shown (I believe), and coded is obtained after Maleficent and Pete try to retake the dataspace.
3. No "generic personification of Riku's dark side" appears anywhere else in the series.
4. In La Cite des Cloches, Vanitas appears to Sora in a similar scene; Vanitas is a creation of the darkness in the heart of Ventus, which sleeps within Sora.
5. Riku: "That was my...my dark side. I gave in to the darkness once. And ever since, it's chased me around in one form or another. The Seeker of Darkness who stole my body...a puppet replica of the shadows in my heart...and now, I'm facing me."

Now, it's true that the character is not explicitly said to be Riku Replica, and we don't have any other scenes of the Riku Replica wearing a black coat. However, as regards possible Seekers of Darkness, Riku Replica is a better candidate than Ansem-Riku (who is basically the same being as Ansem), and Riku-Ansem is explicitly not a viable candidate. Riku's quote does not explicitly rule out the Replica, it just notes that he is one again facing his darkness. Finally, the only times Riku has worn a black coat himself, he has either been absolutely not a seeker of darkness (at the end of CoM, or as Data-Riku), or he has had a totally different appearance (Days Riku, or Riku-Ansem). Furthermore, Ansem-Riku from KH1 wore the Dark Mode suit at all times, and it is clear from the boots that this Riku is not wearing the Dark Mode suit, so it's not him. The apparition being Riku Replica is an obvious impression to take from the Chronicle showing up, and from mirroring the scene with Vanitas. Riku Replica is quite literally a personification of Riku's dark side, and he's the only form of Riku this character could be without assuming the existence of a totally new character which nothing in the series has yet suggested, nor does KH3D explicitly claim it.

This is absolutely more than "just speculation". What it is is assuming that the game isn't lying to us when depicts what appears to be a certain character, then tells us that this character appeared in a certain game. Assuming otherwise is both assuming that totally new characters were added in with no fanfare (extremely odd), and that we now need to distrust a character appearance whenever they aren't explicitly named. Now, it could absolutely have been just a dream of Riku Replica, rather than the actual Riku Replica from the real world. However, that's true for virtually all characters in this game, including robed Ansem.

Finally: the character absolutely exists (we see him, for crying out loud), and it will be covered on this wiki. If you truly believe that this article is not the most accurate place to cover it, then you need to suggest a better place, because throwing out coverage of published info is not an option.

Also:

"we have pointed out evidence about it not being Vexen's Replica"

No you haven't, you've argued that it can't be known for sure. Given all the other characters that reappeared in this game, there's no obstacle to Riku Replica showing up."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 00:07, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

I actually meant "we pointed out evidence about the possibility of it not being Vexen's replica." There is a chance that it's Vexen's Replica, but it is very slim. We can still keep the Dream Drop Distance section of the article because Riku mentions Vexen's Replica in that scene. However, we can't have the infobox image be Riku in a Black Coat, because we don't know if the Black Coated Riku is the replica. The infobox image needs to stick to Dark Mode Riku until we get confirmation that the Riku doppleganger is Vexen's Replica. SeanWheeler (talk) 13:18, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Evidence about the possibility of the off-chance pertaining to the once-in-a-blue-moon-er moment... maggosh 13:25, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

No, you did not present any evidence for an alternative. You're not arguing it could be a definite other person, you're arguing evidence of existence from absence, which is pointless if not exactly false.

as for coverage: reread what I said. THIS character appeared, with a visual depiction and everything. If you believe he should not be treated as implicitly the replica, then give me a page title you think I should move his coverage to."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 20:18, 10 October 2012 (UTC)