Talk:The Boy in White

So, the scala scenes aren't really...real, and I don't think we can confidently say that the eraqus/xehanort entities in them actually are xehanort and eraqus, especially given they continue their game after the real eraqus and xehanort tralala off to hell. I'd like to suggest that we create articles covering white boy and black boy as metaphorical representations, rather than characters."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 16:14, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

the scala scenes aren't really...real In what way? I just assumed they were flashbacks (yeah, “convenient” ones, but that seems more like a common literary technique than anything else). Regardless, I think it’s better to wait for the DLC (which may or may not go further into it) before making such a statement with certainty. Ultima Spark (talk) 23:50, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

In the way that they exactly map to the real-time events that these two boys would have no way whatsoever to control, that boy in white and boy in black are explicitly not part of the xehanort and eraqus profiles whereas in any other game they would be, and that if the chess game really did happen in xehanort's past, you'd assume he'd figure out what was going on and quickly realize that continuing his search for the keyblade war was a losing proposition."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 12:00, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

It's fiction. You're supposed to suspend your disbelief for the metaphor. Pink Agaricus (talk) 19:00, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Right, that's what I'm saying. They're treated as a metaphor. There's no actual part of the game where the in-universe characters make any explicit mentions of that chess game, or remark "that's just like that game we had", etc. And both the game and KHUX medals go out of their way to list them as separate characters, even when other games would just list it as the same character."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 01:10, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

An event in a work of fiction being a metaphor for another thing in the fiction isn't a new concept. You can criticize it for being contrived, but that still doesn't make it not part of the "actual" chronology. Your claim that it's never mentioned isn't even correct, as Eraqus repeats "There's more to light than meets the eye." when he confronts Xehanort through Terra, allowing Xehanort to recognize his old friend. The separate character entries are for convenience (all of the major forms of Xehanort get their own entries) and to preserve the "mystery" of the boys' identities. You are leaping to conclusions because Nomura doesn't spell things out in his hack writing. Pink Agaricus (talk) 12:12, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

It's quite a bit more than simply being a rhyme or repetition of theme. It is explicitly portrayed as being symbolic of the true battle.

I'm not criticizing it.

Your rebuttal of my claim doesn't actually work. They can repeat catchphrases without it being the same character.

The major forms of Xehanort are separate characters that appear alongside each other. Master Xehanort never changes shape directly into Young Xehanort, for example. It's a different concept.

I'm kind of...doing the opposite of leaping to conclusions. Neither the game nor the Ultimania ever explicitly says they are the literal Xehanort and Eraqus, so I'm saying we shouldn't either. Like, seriously, which requires less reaching and more closely matches how the events are actually presented -- that there is a second level dream sequence where metaphorical representations of light and darkness in the form of xehanort and eraqus "act out" the events of the KH series, or that Xehanort and Eraqus had an eerily prophetic chess match that they never give any indication of recognizing when the events played out in real life?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 18:42, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Isn't there a point in the game where pieces just magically appear on the board? The game is definitely not a real game that happened, whether or not these entities are taking the forms of younger Eraqus and Xehanort from their training days, and whether or not E and X actually used to play chess in this room. --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 19:27, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

"When the World needs a defender, they'll pick you, Eraqus." It's Eraqus, not some metaphorical mystery kid. Example: Everglow on YouTube KeybladeSpyMaster 22:42, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Eraqus literally says "As I told you." after repeating the phrase. If you think an explanation that includes the phrase "second level dream sequence" isn't reaching as compared to just accepting that a fictional (aka it can be as contrived as it wants to push a thematic point) chess game set in the past has some parallels to later events, I'm not sure what to tell you. Like, their conversations outside of the game itself—about No Name and Eraqus becoming the new guardian—make no sense in the context you're insisting on. You're being hung up on the point of them not bringing up the chess game in the present, but it wasn't a remarkable one from their perspective and isn't actually that prophetic to anybody but the audience. Pink Agaricus (talk) 22:48, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

"If you think an explanation that includes the phrase" -- dude, Dive to the Heart. I'm suggesting that this is something like a Dive. That's it.

"but it wasn't a remarkable one" -- they both comment that it's the first time white boy has won.

" has some parallels" -- "some" is massively understating it. That's the point.

"I'm not sure what to tell you" -- also kind of the point. The internal chronology of the story is nonsensical if the chess game is treated as something that really happened, and even the Ultimania goes out of its way to not just say "this is Eraqus and Xehanort in the past".

"It's Eraqus, not some metaphorical mystery kid. " -- yes, it would be an entity taking Eraqus's form, or likely Eraqus's heart himself (remember that Eraqus's heart and Xehanort's heart were in the same body). But like Scala ad Caelum in the endgame, it's not treated as a game that really happened in the physical world."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 12:21, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

It's still just a chess game to them and you're still getting into increasingly convoluted explanations. Pink Agaricus (talk) 16:39, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

...I've not "increased" anything. I've been saying it's a dive-type metaphor scenario from the beginning -- just like how Tidus and Selphie aren't actually living inside of Sora's heart, and Roxas and Axel didn't actually travel to the clock tower as Axel was dying.

It's honestly odd to me that you keep trying to portray my suggestion as convoluted or reaching when we've explicitly had this type of scenario elsewhere in the series. I mean, you claimed that "second level dream sequence" was a ridiculous explanation for a plot element, when that's literally the basis of two entire games."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 18:28, 26 July 2019 (UTC)