HERE IS THE MESSAGE YOU'VE ALL JUST BEEN DYING TO READ. Go ahead, pull up a chair. Make some popcorn. This is only the biggest message I've ever been pestered to write in my entire WikiLife about some WikiDrama WikiRegarding the WikiIRC. Now to answer every subject, topic, and question in this thread. Enjoy.
There is a complete misinterpretation of events, firstly. Many people are viewing the de-opping of ErryK as a punishment for the spamming incident. This is absolutely, 100% false. On several occasions, simply too many to remember, I have had to contact ErryK by a personal messaging query to tell him that his actions were uncouth and against the channel rules as a channel operator--for spam, fighting, cursing, insulting, threatening. Mostly, therefore, cyberbullying and violent attitude. You can ask ErryK about this and, assuming he is willing to tell the truth of the matter, he will tell you that I have indeed contacted him a multitude of times about his behavior on the IRC. I apologize for not logging personal messaging queries--from now on, I shall be sure to do that for future referencing of events.
Similarly, there is a misinterpretation of what you are describing as "dictatorial" attitude in de-opping ErryK. During some of the several events I alluded to previously, I spoke privately with other channel operators. I began doing this once I realized this was becoming a habit for ErryK to use such deplorable attitude as a channel operator. As harsh as that sounds, it's the opinion that I can justify with personal experiences, many of which I hold in logs that I can release if necessary. Anyway, back to the point, the other operators and I agreed that the issue was becoming a larger problem than it should be, especially for a channel operator who is supposed to lead by example, be a personification of our rules, and prevent breaking of the rules, not fuel them. After this, several more incidents occurred with ErryK, and we decided then and there, on August 26th, that enough was enough. We put our foot down, and removed ErryK's +o flag. We felt that after the repetition of rule-breaking offenses and more than enough verbal warnings that were simply met with debate and argue, it was time to end this. I can also affirm that the decision involved the unanimous consensus of at least three current channel operators. I am not some kind of horrible dictator against ErryK personally; I am simply the one who carried out the action of finally taking a stand against this issue.
And yes, it is unprofessional to try and unmute a channel by going behind the back of another channel operator who added it to the channel in the first place. We use +m only in critical situations, and when we have contrasting users both fighting for that command, it gets too chaotic. It is generally known that whoever puts on the +m is the one who takes it off. IF ANOTHER CHANNEL OPERATOR IS GOING TO TAKE IT OFF INSTEAD, THEY NEED TO DISCUSS IT WITH THE ORIGINAL MUTING USER. This is the way that I have usually seen it down with such operators as Sapheta and myself, which works very systematically and respectfully. It is simply malicious to act against another user's obvious, visible actions to try and keep a channel under control. If ErryK so desperately needed to talk to me, he needed to do so in a private messaging query. The face that he was scrambled for unmuting the channel simply shows an attempt to roll the snowball even more in the public, rather than settling the issue properly with me privately.
I am no way describing my own behavior on the IRC as perfect; I've made my share of mistakes, even a few as a channel operator. HOWEVER, I can say with agreement from other users that the only recognizable incident that can be remembered, a playful and unnecessary event sparring with KrytenKoro playfully, simply is inferior to the amount of times I have had to contact ErryK about his behavior. In regards to this nonsense about "Beep" and "Boop": wow, you're way off. First of all I don't even say "Beep"; the only time I would say that is if I said it twice in a row followed by "meow!", and that would be very rare. "Boop" is a catchphrase I have picked up and I would never substitute it for an actual response to a user's query or problem. IF someone needs me and I do not answer, I have probably either fallen asleep (I do so much work online that it's simply not worth it to turn off my computer) or left unannounced. I answer those who need help, I never shirk that with a little silly phrase instead. If a user is going to come to me specifically for help, I take that as important to them to seek out an individual admin, experienced user, and channel operator. I can tell that they need me for something and I do what I can to help them. Boop.
I'm sorry, but talking about one of our sister wikis who we are spawned from the staff of and share much of our community with is simply horrible. I asked for the conversation to cease, putting ErryK in direct violation of Rule #2. Thus the channel was muted as a "last resort" because kicking is ineffective and a ban would result in unnecessary drama, which evidently just came about anyway. We enter "Quiet Time" only when we absolutely have to stop the conversation at hand. Maybe you didn't notice, but (1) #FFWiki was completely aware that the conversation was going on and found ErryK and the fact that he started that conversation completely deplorable. This has probably significantly affected our relationship with that wiki that was already deteriorating, and any chance of bringing them to SEIWA or simply affiliating with them is probably gone now. (2) Saying that you do not like members of a community that we overlap with is, well, unintelligent. It's going to get around to them, simply put, so just mentioning it is hurting us. If ErryK was so HORRIBLY PLAGUED BY THE HORRIBLE FFWIKI STAFF THAT IS JUST SO HORRIBLE, he should have brought to a personal messaging query, a personal journal, or social networking for all I care! But not the IRC, that was simply a terrible move that breaks apart WikiRelations. I have made #FFWiki a home channel for the past, and the topic of KHWiki has very seldom come up. The only time I can remember it was just during the time of the move, honestly, and they were praising us. How nice of them.
There is also concern that I am silencing ErryK's opinion unfairly. As much as I disagree with ErryK, he could have taken the conversation elsewhere to an individual through a query or to #FFWiki directly if it was just so infuriatingly bothersome. When a rule is broken and we are hurting our relations with another wiki, it's time to pull the plug. The channel was muted to protect our relationship and morality with the Final Fantasy Wiki, not to stop ErryK because I disagreed with him.
ErryK has told me that being violent in tone and attitude, exercising rage and anger with cursing and swearing, and acting with a rude and offensive demeanor is actually a part of his attitude. This isn't something we can change, it's just who he is. Therefore, why would we put someone that we know has caused problems before on the IRC due to his basic nature in the position of channel operator? It's simply nonsensical. I do not have any personal misgivings toward ErryK, but I do not find it logical to give someone who already has essentially admitted that he is not a proper person to wield the rights mentally and stably. No, it wasn't done "on purpose," but it's unavoidable. All of those incidents were done by default.
The de-opping was warranted, but not by simply this one event that broke the rules of spamming and not ceasing a conversation that was asked to be ended. It was a culmination of the many past problems caused by ErryK on the IRC. There are many other users who can vouch for the fact that ErryK has exploded in swears and threats before on the IRC, that is certain.
Also I'm Aradooria. Not Aradooriabot, Aradooria's Ancestor, or God Tier Aradooria, just Aradooria. Boop.
Now, we move on to the second incident at hand, the log that carries the conversation in which I gave ErryK a simple verbal warning to not swear so violently. While ErryK has admitted that this is a part of who he is, it cannot be said that it was a mistake to warn him for this. I do agree that when other users swear they do need to be warned if we want to keep such a policy in place. However, now I'm really not sure if we have left the PG rule in place. Whether it is in place or not, however, ErryK's language, not just the diction, showed a violent and threatening tone that needed to be addressed. I will agree that as channel operators there are some things that we do let slide by accident simply because the channel has yet to call for a systematic warning system. This is especially true for cursing since we do not have a definite policy for it.
Furthermore, there is an issue here with blatantly going against the rules. ErryK, trying to built a case to regain his position, still went against the swearing policy that we supposedly and apparently have, as to my knowledge that may or may not be correct, unfortunately. Knowing that his swearing was against our rules, he did it anyway. The reason? It was apparently the "only choice." This is crap. I'm sorry but that is probably one of the worst arguments I've ever been graced with reading on the IRC in a long time. There are literally thousands of ways to deal with a situation when someone is annoying you, and you choose the one that you know is against the rules? This... there is a lack of logic in this scenario.
Here, I'll even make it really painstakingly simple. Below is a list of how things could have been handled that would not have defied policy:
- Take it to a PM.
- Tell a channel operator about the situation.
- Open up a temporary medium channel to take the issue off the channel.
- Abstain from responding and realize that you are just feeding the trolls.
- Respectfully tell the badgering users that you are annoying them and you would like them to stop. This invokes Rule #2.
- Leave the channel, come back later when things have settled.
- Leave a message on an admin's talk page if a channel operator is not available.
- If needed, create a forum about the issue prompting a review or revision of policy.
Curse and throw a swearing and violent fit about the problem.
As a personal addendum, I do not swear myself, and any time I have has been an extreme rare case that I would be surprised for someone to dig our of their logs. I'm rather disappointed in being accused of such, boop.
Also, we channel operators are aware that we are normal people. We put our pants on one leg at a time too, y'know. We even have eyes and ears and noses too, JUST LIKE YOU! WOW. Extended metaphor aside, channel operators take actions against each other too, you clearly are blind if you missed that. Seriously, are you not even reading this forum? Have you not seen KrytenKoro and I argue? Have you not seen channel operators de-op each other before? Have you not seen channel operators kick each other before? Have you not seen what happened on the channel last night? Have you not seen a channel operator ban another? This happens, don't be so ridiculously oblivious to this simply for the sake of rhetorical appeal in your argument.
A channel operator, one of many, in this thread has even cited that spamming and the excessive use of abrasive language is something that would require disciplinary measures to be taken. I think, as a community and channel operators, we can agree that when we have this many people agreeing that using swearing in such a manner is a bad thing... it's a bad thing! Warnings, bans, kicks, and/or mutes are completely reasonable actions to be taken during such an event. Or we could let the channel turn into a swear-filled hellhole with no rules and we just let people who threaten and curse do what they want like #wikia-kingdomhearts did, and I can come in around February and blow it up again. It could be like an annual thing! Any takers? Didn't think so.
Killing the social channel is a horrible idea, so much that I honestly interpret it as just exaggeration of the event. Blaming the channel for some of the issues I'm about to describe is also plainly illogical and unrelated to the communication medium itself: no rules; people trying to rule-lawyer. HMMM, IT ALSO SEEMS AS THOUGH WE ARE TRYING TO FIX THE RULE PROBLEM BY RULE-LAWYERING. IT'S ALMOST AS THOUGH SAPHARUS AND I HAD A POINT LAST NIGHT. WOW. WHAT A SHOCKER. If you want rules, we'll make them. Don't silence the voice of the body trying to fix your problems, or end up with a mess of nothing getting done and chaotic misinterpretation of the possibly nonexistent rules.
Also drama between the Keyhole and us cannot be blamed on the IRC. Hah! That's like saying if two people fight in Burger King it's Burger King's fault for existing in the first place. If you want to blast the social channel to smithereens, we can just move all the Keyhole drama to the wiki like it inevitably would be! WOW! What a fabulous idea! Let's get rid of our social channel that keeps the princesses and RC clogging away and bring it back to our professionalism-preaching encyclopedia! This is almost as great of an idea as dropping purified sodium (Na) into water!
Note the sarcasm. Also don't put purified sodium (Na) in water (H2O), you will blow your eyes out. Boop. Anyway, most people behave on the channel, we are just having a repeated issue with a select few or singular users. The channel is pretty dead when I peak in there usually, essentially nothing happens in there for most of the day. There's not even mindless roleplaying or incessant fan-talk sometimes.
Also if you want me to yell at KrytenKoro for cursing now, I'll gladly do so. But that's not in our rules. Maybe we should try to create some new rules theOH WAIT LAST TIME WE TRIED THAT TWO CHANNEL OPERATORS GOT BANNED AND NOTHING WAS ACCOMPLISHED HOW SILLY OF ME TO FORGET THAT MONUMENTAL MOMENT IN OUR IRC'S HISTORY.
Now, once this is factored into our discussion, hopefully a new discussion with respect to the true actions from all the history of the channel and its users-in-question's previous issues can be made by the community. There are still several channel operators who have witnessed ErryK's violent, rage-filled outbursts several times who have yet to speak, and I can ask for their intervention should you need any actual evidence of this happening. I have logs too, y'know, just sayin'. AND NOW YOU'RE DONE READING!!
*applause* CONGRATULATIONS! *applause* CONGRATULATIONS! *applause* CONGRATULATIONS! *applause* CONGRATULATIONS! *applause* CONGRATULATIONS! *applause* CONGRATULATIONS! *applause* CONGRATULATIONS! *applause* CONGRATULATIONS! *applause* CONGRATULATIONS! *applause* CONGRATULATIONS! *applause* CONGRATULATIONS! *applause* CONGRATULATIONS!
I've spammed the channel last night and I was rude towards a number of people but I never did actually say to whomever it was. I never once explicitly said that I hated someone nor any personally negative feelings.
was remembered least 15:40, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
was remembered least 07:57, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
Roxas 01:24, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
04:40, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
