Talk:Unversed/Archive 1

Opinion?

Does anyone else think they should have just stuck with Heartless and Nobodies? I just feel like adding an enemy that precedes the Heartless (originally, the REAL threat) seems kind of silly. It would have been better in continuity of they just stuck with the original enemies instead of trying to give us another "original enemy". 75.42.222.81 18:21, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Heartless started within the timeline of Kingdom hearts 1. so they had to have something else. Zack fair 007 23:15, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

But here's a thought, guys : in the Another Side Another Story trailer, they explicitly mentioned "The Third Enemy - Nobody" meaning to say that the Heartless were already intended to be the second. The first would be the Unbirths, I guess. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

You think that the mad hatter's song " A Very Merry Unbirthday" has anything to do with them? Roxas-rules 19:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

WHY do people keep claiming that Xion is an unbirth??? We dont even know for certain what unbirths are!!

Ahem, anyway, I hope they tie them to the sleeping part of this game. And then there could be stuff from Sleeping Beauty (which could already be the wheel master).

Summon:WALL•E 08:24, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

The reason is that there is no other logical explanation that we can see. both her heart and her body are acounted for over the entire duration of kingdom hearts one.Rock2060 22:26, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Theory

Instead of being negative souls, they are negative LIFE. See this: Heartless: Corrupted Hearts Nobody: Corrupted Bodies Unbirths: (Presumingly) Corrupted "Lifeforce". See the contradictions in names? They are the "opposite of human life", being life without reason, without a body to sustain, no heart to guide it. "Birth By Sleep"-Born In Sleep. If sleep can be called the process of the division into heartless, nobody and unbirth, you got an origin right in the title.

-Good Night Everybody! MEXORAN

I must say I have to agree with this theory whole heartedly (pun intended). Like you said Heartless are a heart in a body of darkness, nobodies are the body and soul leftover when the darkness invades, so maybe unbirths are just a body and a heart?

unbirth = soul

An unbirth is the soul just like the nobody and the heartless are the body and the heart. In the ansem report 7 it says wen ar heartless is created the body and soul are reborn into another world. A good example is Sora his heartless a shadow was born in Hallow Bastion but his nobody Roxas was born in Twilight Town.

And there is good proof that Xeanorts unbirth is leading the unbirths because his heartless and nobody leaded the nobodys (Xemnas) and the heartless (Ansem)

one last thing Xion is not an unbrirt she is a !nobody!

Xion. Is. Not. A. Nobody! She is a copy made from Sora's leaked memorys!!! Honestly... Coroxn-The Lunar Genius

how can she be a nobodywhen riku has her body for the entire game.Rock2060 22:28, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

except Nobodies are the body AND soul.

But we don't even know MX is Xehanorts unbirth, and a lot of people think Terra is Xehanorts unbirth.

Master Xehanort and Xehanort may be connected to each other but MX is definitely not' Xehanort's unbirth. I mean, look at their age ! Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Idea

I think that when a Nobody meets with it's original being ( Such as when Roxas meets with Sora ) the nobody goes back to the normal soul, meaning that the nobody is non- existint anymore, resulting in the nobody being unborn. ( Namine and Roxas are exceptions ) When this happens, another being is created. But instead of one occurence = one heartless/nobody, it creates one unbirth with the power to multiply. Every time this happens, the original unbirth goes to a certain world. When it reaches this world, it starts multiplying. When the original unbirth is defeated, the other unbirth's are destroyed also.Master of Valor 00:18, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

You mean as in a neverending circle of threats ? Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Clarkmaster says- Ralfiki did said that its the Circle of Life

That was the Circle of Life lol ! This is like some sorta circle of death ! Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Just a thought

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— {{{time}}} I was wandering if these unbirths (See pictures) will be the "main" unbirts, like Shadows are the main Heartless and Dusks are the main Nobodies?

File:Unbirth.png

File:Unbirth2.png

Methinks they are. By the way, Shadows are the main Heartless and their Nobody counterparts are the Creepers. The Heartless counterparts of Dusks are the Neoshadows. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— {{{time}}} Oh, yeah, that's right. Thank you :D

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— {{{time}}} I am also thinking that maybe Unbirths are both Pureblod (like heartless (shadow) and Emblem (like emblem heartless (Soldier). If that's true then that means that someone is making them with a machine (ore something), right? see pictures of "emblem" Unbirths and of "pureblood"Unbirths

File:Large Body Unbirth.PNG

Quite plausible, but who could be making those Unbirths ? I know the Generic (Shadow equivalent) and Neo (Neoshadow equivalent) Unbirths look about the same as their Heartless counterparts. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— {{{time}}} yeah, the one that "could" do it might perhaps be MX apprentice (Or Terra (Whoever becomes Xehanort). he could have worked on it (Secretly?) but then something must have happened to stop the Unbirths for good and when he lost his memory (perhaps he didn't loose all of it) he kept on his work but since Unbirths were no more, he worked with heartless and eventually became one. Tell me if this is just some of my crazy imagination acting up again :D

I don't think it's your imagination. There're quite a few theories on who becomes Xehanort. But maybe, Terra isn't Xehanort. Clarkmaster, take a look at this ! Maybe Terra isn't Xehanort because Xehanort was with Braig (who is later known as Xigbar). And in The World That Never Was, Xigbar says "You're not half the hero the others were", and Nomura says he did have a showdown with Terra, Ven and Aqua. If Xehanort was with Braig and Braig had a showdown with all three of them, then Xehanort is not Terra. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— {{{time}}} That's right! (I think)

The thing about Square Enix and Kingdom Hearts is that even the impossible could happen. :D So let's not keep our expectations too high, ya ? Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— {{{time}}} Although, it could be that Xehanort/Xemnas just told Braig/Xigbar about them! just a thought of mine :P

If you ask me, I've got no idea anymore. First I thought Terra was Xehanort, then I thought he wasn't, then I refuted someone's theory, then I brought back the Terra=Xehanort idea, and now I reject it again... Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

not just the soul

the problem is that it cant just be the soul because then there would be an overwhelming number of ubirths in the other kingdom hearts games and there absense would require an arbitrary explaination. heartless\ nobodys are made when you lose your heart something that is not natrule. but you are suposed to lose your soul its called dieing.

now for some reason not every heartless spawns a nobody my theroy is this if a heartless is formed it affects the soul in such a way that it will move. if the soul sticks with the body you get a nobody if the soul gose with the heart instead of geting a heartless you get an unbirth. of course its also likely that if the soul will chose neither in wich case you get one heartless and a dead body. this would explain why heartless are more abundent then the other 2

It should only be the soul, because remember what Nomura himself said ? An Unbirth is the opposite of human life, so when you lose your soul, you die, and an Unbirth is created. For a human to be born, the Unbirth should die. By actually coining the theory you're contradicting yourself, aren't you ? Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Clarkmaster thunkSince Troisnyxetienne is right than that means Ven is NOT soras unbirth, unless the game takes place 14 years before kh 1

But here's another thought: The game takes some years before KH1. Terra and Ven are on the Main Island of Destiny Islands and Ven begs Terra to erase him. And Terra is also seen alone on Destiny Islands, watching young Sora and Riku train with their toy swords. There is a high possibility that this could've taken place more than ten years before KH1. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

And that would be the end of Ven's story, wouldn't it? That defintley means Ven is an unbirth, and if that's true than the first major unbirth seen is Ven so riku has no major importance to BBS as of yet, so Terra has got to be Xehanort!Clarkmaster been thinkin

I'm putting the pieces together in the next section. Do watch the page along with me. At the same time, whoever's got access to what Nomura says about Terra, Ven, Aqua and Xehanort, kindly put it up here. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

What happened in the keyblade War?

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— {{{time}}} What do you think happened to all those keyblade wielders that must have had those keyblades at sunset horizons? (I think that when a keyblade-wielder dies, his or her keyblade appears there, stuck down in the ground, or maybe they can choose to do so and loose the power to wield the keyblade but still live) Perhaps this is just some crap coming out of me, hehe :D But seriously, what does anyone think happened? has Nomura said anything about this? I need tho know! :D

No, Nomura hasn't said anything else. This realy isn't the place to ask something like this, but this topic piques my intrest: How do you know that there even were that many Keybalde weilders at one time? There can only be four Keyblade weilders (and their Nobodies, and possiblly their Heartless or Unbirths) at a time. There could be a number of diffrent explanations. Some of the Keyblades shown in the trailor are Sora's meaning they could represent memories, worlds, or people. It's also possible that those are the Keyblades of previous Keybalde weilders and that the Crossroads is where their Keyblades are laid to rest. Also, how to we even know the "Keyblade War" was fought with people? It's possible it was the Keyblades fighting themselves, resulting in the four Realm's (Realm of Light, Realm of Darkness, Realm of In Between, and Realm of Nothingness) indivigual Keyblades. Their's way too many possiblities to go further with this. -xNaminéx

Maybe they (Ven, Terra, Aqua) didn't die but were passed one as the infulence of the next generation, but Terra apperantly goes evil, Riku, the origanil realm of light keyblader master, goes temporay evil, leaving the realm of light to chose Sora as, unlike Ven, the keyblade master of light, leaving Darkside to Aqua and Mickey, and the left over keyblade, Way to Dawn to Riku as, like Ven (I guess?), chose the road in between-Clarkmaster

Well, as they say... you could save the world or wry ruin upon it with one single Keyblade. Someone's actually gotta control those Keyblades for there to be a war, right ? Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Not necessarily. If the Keyblade can choose it's own master, why can't it fight by itself? And I didn't really mean a physical battle, I meant that the Keyblade War could possiley have been the interal power struggle between Light and Darkness for supremessy, thus creating the Keyblades of each Realm.-xNaminéx

The Keyblade chooses its master, but definitely not its domain. It's ultimately up to the master to choose between light and darkness. So that's particularly why I said someone's gotta control these Keyblades for there to be a war. Think about the time Riku chose the Realm of In Between and maybe you'd understand. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

What about the Lingering Sentiment? If Terra is Xehanort, what is it then? Couldn't it be Terra's keyblade acting on its own? Veroso 02:23, 27 January, 2009

The master has the Keyblade based on the domain. That's why Sora took the Kingdom Key, the Keyblade of Light. It orinally chose Riku, but since Riku chose darkness, the Kingdom Key chose Sora instead, because Sora's heart stayed in the Light. Riku has the Way to the Dawn, the Keybalde of In Between, because after Xehanort's Heartless posessed him, he tries to find his Light, but realized he could have both. -xNaminéx

There, I got you at "Riku chose darkness" - ultimately, it's a choice. The Keyblade has immense power, but how does one choose to use it ? Veroso : Perhaps. But I have a feeling Terra may not be Xehanort. See above. If it's Terra's Keyblade acting on its own, where did the wielder come from ? Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Oh. I see what your saying. The weilder chooses their own path. But what i'm saying is that the keyblade they get is based off the path they choose.-xNaminéx

So who is Xehanort? The second most probable suspect seems to be MX's apprentice. Veroso 02:50, 27 January, 2009

Maybe so. I can't say for sure. But well, he seems suspicious enough. Same bodysuit as Riku's, same attribute and alignment as always - darkness - and always willing to take the protagonist out. Whadaya think ? Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

He's apperantly dark, possiby one of the later Org. XIII members, Xehanort, defentley not a final fantasy character, but each weilder has a new generation version, Ven=Sora. Terra=Riku. Aqua=Kairi/Mickey (due to the Darkside). So the question is, Who in Kh1, CoM, and Kh2 is the equevelint of The Apperintance?-Clarkmaster

No idea. Methinks he'd come out in the sequel to Birth By Sleep, Days and Coded. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Isn't it obvious? Saix and the Guardian all remind you of the Apprentice! 13:44, 28 January, 2009 Veroso

The Guardian, perhaps. But Saix has absolutely nothing gotta do with the Apprentice. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Saix has no keyblade, but the Guardian could be a side affect from Xehanort's Heartless powers, any one thinking anti-sora?Clarkmaster

Or maybe anti-anyone of the three Keyblade knights... Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Well, Aqua's out. Terra's muslcel structure seems bigger, Ven seem a canident-Clarkmaster

No, wait, it cannot be. Xehanort and his apprentice were seen apart from Terra, Ven and Aqua. It has to be someone else. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Sora, Riku, Roxas, Mickey, and Kairi are 5 outta 6 of the current keybladers. Sora and Roxas are taken by Ven, Riku is taken by Terra, Kairi and Mickey are taken by Aqua, we have no clue who's the other have of Xion, but its probaly not the Apperantice, but who,who else, it can't be final fantasy,could it just be a dark younger clone of MX or is it a acuall person, and what's the deal with the name "Xehanort" any way, I guess its was one sell or something-Clarkmaster

Okay I lost this at xNaminex's comment since when are there only four keyblade masters? In the "another report" (Official commentary by Nomura I linked to it on the Main page's talk section too lazy to do so here) it is specificaly stated that this is not the case. While there is probably a keyblade for each realm those are not the only one's. I have no idea where that idea could have originated from

Since when are there only four keybalde masters when Nomura specificaly said there are more? Oh Yee of little faith http://www.kingdomhearts3.net/another-report/pages-28-29/#ar "as many as there are qualified hearts"

They are 5 seen keybladers in Birth by Sleep, 6 (counting the nobodies) keybladers in the mainstream comunity as of now, who knows, 368/2 or something might have another keyblader, coded might not, so all we can rely on is Nomura's word and screen shots, and for those who are confused keyblader is what Hades called Sora in Kingdom Hearts II and I sounds kinda cool- Clarkmaster

Five seen Keybladers in Birth By Sleep, plus Mickey, Sora, Riku and Kairi - that makes nine. And Xion. Ten. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

And if Xion is not the nobody of Aqua, and if my theory is right than Xion posseses the keyblade due to being expiremnted by the Organization with some of Sora's memories, such as the ability to be a keyblader, than she, like roxas, is a fragment of a keyblader, or this theory could be completely wrong, go figure Clarkmaster

Oh snap, here comes the question : does there have to be so many Keyblade wielders ? Makes no justice to the phrase "chosen one". Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

It could mean the chosen one of light, since Riku is in between, Mickey is darkness, and Kairi is apperantly nothingness Clarkmaster

Has the phrase "Chosen one" ever actually been used.(Quote the damn Scene)

Leon used it. After he knocks Sora out cold, I can't remeber the quote, but either he or Yuffie says it Clarkmaster

I looked up both versions of that scene and thatis a LIE!(mad twitching) anyhoo there is mention of the "keyblade's chosen one" but with the theory that "The Voice"(capitals) is the keyblade that might be literal (if there is more than one keyblade... and there is)then they all get to choose.(no backsies)

Sorry, coulda sorn one of them said it, but I know for sure that Axel used it refering to Roxas Clarkmaster

That "Chosen one" phrase is used by Leon, Yen Sid, Axel and quite a few others. There are some things even the stars cannot tell me. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Since a Heartless is a heart that is lost in darkness and a Nobody is a body that lost its heart, I'm guessing an Unbirth is a being that's made or "born" when unnatural creatures like Nobodies and Heartless are made. Or maybe instead of the darkness, it's the Unbirths that makes a heart into a Heartless and a body into a Nobody. Or here's another theory: Now in Kingdom Hearts, there was a lot of Heartless. In Kingdom Hearts 2, there was still a lot of Heartless and a small number of Nobodies. My theory is in Birth By Sleep, there was a lot of Unbirths that were created by Master Xenahort and his apprentice, who Xenahort chose over his former apprentices, the Chasers (He saw that the Chasers were weak and small-minded and unwilling to gain true power). These Unbirths were all destroyed by Ven, Aqua, and Terra. Augment96 04:39, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— {{{time}}} I think that all those theories are illogical. If the Unbirts are doing something that happens during KH - KHII (like your 1st and 2nd theory suggests) Then Where the hell were they? However, your 3rd theory is slightly "better", but I think it is not posable that Terra, Aqua and Ven destroyed ALL of the Unbirths in ALL of the Worlds! It just doesn't seem right! I think that something happened during this keyblade war that destroyed all of the unbirths (if they weren't all destroyed, then where were they in the other KH games?)

Okay. Guys. I'm getting confused. One person is explaining, another is explaining while the third is complicating things up while I am stuck in the middle of this chaos. I think we'd better take this dispute to a new section, what say you ? Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— {{{time}}} Sure :P

Origin

Saule - Keyblader of Darkness TALK - Dark in Every Light~Kurai Well since theres seems to be a chain in all these beings human+darkness=heartless and shell (aka nobody) Where cood the unbirths come from. (besides the obvious i gess which is death)

Drake Clawfang - Anger and hate are supreme....power and control are pretty nice too. TALK - 07:43, 17 February 2009 (UTC) The Unbirths are born of light. The way I see it, it's simple logic to deduce some fundamental facts about them. Think about it. Heartless - Darkness - Heart Nobody - Nothingness - Body Unbirth - Light - Soul Fits perfectly, IMO.

GohanRULEZ - Turn Back the Pendulum,Shout the Truth TALK - We're not tools of the government or anyone else. Fighting was the only thing I was good at, but at least I always fought for what I believed in That looks like it makes sense,however,IMO,I don't think the Unbirths are light,I think there are Dusk(in between Darkness and Light)but I could see is they where light(sense with in every heart is both Light and Darkness)and if it is true,then how are they created?

Saule - Keyblader of Darkness TALK - Dark in Every Light~Kurai well that makes sense Drake but couldn't it be this way: Human Form- Light- Normal Heartless- Dark - Heart Nobody- Nothingness - Body Unbirth - Twilight - Soul and i heard the unbirths are suppose to represent savageness so i could be nothing of what we said.

Twilight=Nothingness, in the context of KH.

Heartless are hearts (emotion, darkness), but the heart also has to act as the body, and so since the heart can't work full time on its real job, the creature acts "Heartless".

Nobodies are bodies (form, twilight), but the body also has to emulate emotions and thought (which is why when they emulate emotion, it's always so dramatic and theatrical, and they don't use body language), so it too is working overtime. Thus, the body cannot fully just be "there", which makes them seem insubstantial, like they don't fully exist. (Technically, Nobodies have souls as well, but most important is the body). The strongest Nobodies, best able to emulate emotion, seem to have filled their hearts with the element they represent - which is why Axel has a passionate, fiery personality, warm but destructive; Roxas is pure and high-minded; Larxene is caustic, quick to anger, and tantalizing; Vexen is haughty and arrogant (cold); and Marluxia is vain and focused on death (cherry blossoms being a symbol of death in Japan).

Unbirth's are presumably just souls (mind, light) - trying to emulate form and emotion, but being quite similar to the concept of the "soul waiting to be put in a body" that you get between Reincarnation, or before incarnation, etc. Thus, they represent something that is no longer alive, or has never been. As the mind is an abstract, it is the least substantial of the three - a body is purely physical, and a heart is a thing of the world, but the soul is eternal. Thus, by itself, it is even more "nonexistant" than the others. The Ansem Report's specifically explain that without the heart, a barely existent Nobody (body and soul) is formed, and a Nobody without a body (a soul only) soon fades away completely. Birth by Sleep will probably give a setting which allows the Souls to survive on their own for some reason; as it is a prequel, maybe the war of the keyblades actually had something to do with making sure souls went away once the body and heart ended. Maybe they had a ghost problem?

A Heartless, once destroyed, liberates the heart from darkness. A Nobody, once defeated, seems to have their body actually destroyed (since they are at least, physically there), leaving the soul behind. Unbirths could very well be a setup for what happens to a dying Nobody, and the mythos about them will probably set up a way for the Organization members to come back in some form.

A whole person, a being, is all three of these. They are not represented by any specific direction on light-dark, and may choose at their own will. While not "nothingness/twilight", they are a blank slate, so a whole may fill themselves with light (Sora), darkness (Riku), or nothingness (Xehanort).

It was actually pretty clear this was the mythology they were going to create since Chain of Memories - people (including me) were calling it before KHII came out.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 18:24, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Saule - Keyblader of Darkness TALK - Dark in Every Light~Kurai but isnt ther a difference between twilight and nothingness? ie. Riku chose twilight (in between light and dark) in CoM. and nothingness would be well nothing like nobodies and what not.

...noo...Xemnas makes it absolutely rock-solid clear that nothingness, the nobodies, are "in between light and dark"/"teetering on the edge"/etc. Then, you've got Twilight Town, the epicenter of nearly all Nobodies.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 19:19, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Saule - Keyblader of Darkness TALK - Dark in Every Light~Kurai true statement. so i gess unbirths are jus sumthin different on their own.....

Combination?

Maybe they're the combination of a nobody and the heartless that came from it. That would explain the small population. The reason that they are the opposite of human life is that this time their hearts are pure darkness, no light at all.

Or

Unbirths could be (I am making a wild guess) born when a nobody and a heartless reunite and fuse together. Thus a person is becoming unborn. Dark one 01:27, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Twoface13 - There's someone with a "key" -- the key to our survival. TALK - No... They'll pay for this! I came up with a similar theory (click on light above) but as was pointed out, the unbirths appeared before the heartless and nobodies.

Variation on the theories flying around

There are umpteen theories on this, and mine bears some similarities, but I direct you here for the simple core idea of my theory... that Unbirths are the result of the Body being separated from the Heart and Soul -- Sorceror Nobody, 21:18, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Morghman - Now! Let's savor the utmost of suffering together! TALK - As the other dies, their agony radiates through my body, and living through it is pure ecstasy! I say enough of the Birth by Sleep theories, just let Mickey do all the work for us, he always has.

A summary of my thoughts

I've seen a pattern among the Heartless, Nobodies and Unbirth; One aspect of it is complete, one is corrupt and one is missing. By aspect, I mean body, heart and soul. It works like this:

• Heartless: Has a complete body, a corrupt heart, and *possibly* no soul.
• Nobody: Has a *possibly* complete soul, a corrupt (discarded) body and no heart.

So following this pattern, an Unbirth would go like this:

• Unbirth: Has a complete heart, a corrupt soul and no body.

Does this work? Maggosh 23:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Unbirth is possibly the soul

I dont like how everyone is just debunking all the unbirth = soul theorys because "they never showed up in other games" Im sorry but did nobodys show up at all in Kingdom hearts (the original). If your gonna argue "Xemnas appeared as a mystery boss in Final mix" he was not identified as a nobody, just a guy in a cloak. Yes they evolved on the idea but how do we know that a Unbirth hasnt shown up, for all we know Terra could have been transformed into a unbirth. Aqua's armor responds in the end to Xemnas, how do we know that she isnt an unbirth also just trapped in her armor somehow (like her soul was trapped, and if your gonna say thats impossible, The game has little hearts coming out of dead shadow creatures, almost nothing is impossible in this game.) For all we know Xehanort/Xemnas/Ansem (heartless) Is what terra became. IT makes sense. Xehanort looks like terra, in 358/2 days he gives a scene that mirrors the one terra does to ven, When Xehanort arrived on Raident Garden he had no memory of his past, its possible that he remembered Master Xehanorts name and took it as his own. Ansem planned to unlock Xehanort's memory, maybe xehanort continued that idea, or when he turned heartless/nobody/unbirth his memory unlocked. Would explain a few things, Why he called Aqua's armor friend, why he acted friendly to Roxas (similariy in appearance), Why he looks like terra in various ways. After Xemnas was created, Ansem (Heartless) Was created and Terra Could be the unbirth. We have no idea how Unbirth feel, but if they are souls then its possible that they do indeed have emotions, which means that The darkness manifested in heartless and nobody forms but his unbirth being his soul, may have been conflicted and thats why he isnt exactly "Evil" just confused and hostile. There is a similar theory (i honestly didnt take anything from it i jus realised it 2 secondsd ago) on Terra's page. If Terra is an unbirth it would explain alot. it would be a time line like this: Terra-Xehanort(after memory loss)-Experiment-Creates Ansem Xemnas and Terra (unbirth)-Ansem takes the look of MX-Xemnas gets rid of Terra (unbirth) and takes Aqua's armor (the friend comment)-Terra (Unbirth) Being the manifestation of Terra (normal)'s soul he is conflicted between good and evil (like riku in a sense) Which is why he doesnt act evil just full of emotions, Mostly regret, grief etc. Why dont unbirths show up? Its possible that Xemnas, seeing how emotional Terra is, purposely makes sure that no more unbirths show up. This theory gives credit to Terra's nicknames on his page, Why Xemnas cant find "his heart" when he attempts to claim it from KH because it would be Terra's, Why his eyes turn yellow, its possible that terra's hair turned white as well. This theory gives credit to unbirths being souls as well because, if Terra is the unbirth, then it would prove that souls manifest as well into beings, Souls dont go with nobodys or heartless as they always said that the Heartless is what happens when someone falls prey to the darkness, No body or soul. There is NOTHING that says the nobody has the soul, thats just an assumption, they are whats left of the body as the soul would possess certain emotions, and may possess them all as the heartless dont show emotion as they are not in control of themselves. Ansem does show emotion, anger, but so does the nobodys, he may have been faking it as well. We dont know much about the unbirth so nooone can say a theory is wrong, or right. Unless ofcourse someone says that the darness of a heart isnt a heartless but a unbirth or something in which case its obviously wrong. please comment on how you feel, btw i used Terra/Xemnas/Ansem because they show the most about their respective beings (Terra being my theory ofcourse.)-- Whitedragon254 23:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

My Theory

AbOhWn - I'd rather we just skip the formalities TALK - Parley ! Okay the suffix "un" means not right? So knowing that, we can say that unbirth means "not birth", meaning "not born". I think this means that unbirths are what a person is before they are born. This would explain Ven's resbemence to Roxas.

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— {{{time}}} If you say that, then Heartless and Nobodies should not have Hears (for Heartless) and Bodies (for Nobodies), which they do !

AbOhWn - I'd rather we just skip the formalities TALK - Parley ! Wait that doesn't makes sense. Why wouldn't the Heartless and Nobodies have hearts and bodies?

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— 15:53, 22 June 2009 (UTC) No, I'm saying that they do have hearts and bodies. I was just saying how your theory doesn't work out. I'll explain this a little better: Heartless have Hearts and a Body of darkness, but no soul. Although they do in fact have Hearts, they're called Heartless! Nobodies have Bodies and Souls, but not hearts. Although they do in fact have bodies, they're called Nobodies! So, with that information, I assume that Unbirths do have souls and hearts, but no body...? I don't know...

Well, Yensid said nobodies were "A spirit that goes on, even as it's body fades from existence." And, "Nobodies do not truly exist at all." And the Heartless aren't hearts, they are the darkness of people's hearts, and they steal hearts. I'm with AbOhWn on this one, though, knowing Square Enix, they'll probably make up something else that will knock us all on our backs. I don't understand why people who haven't been born yet would be evil though... but it's a start. Me, I've given up on theories. I'm just gonna wait til it comes out. And not when the Japanese one comes out. I don't want spoilers. I just want to find out for myself. Mcoolister

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— 17:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC) I never said that Heartless were hearts, I said that they have hearts. there's a big difference!

Oh! Sorry, my bad. I read it wrong. X| Mcoolister

A Very Merry Unbirthday

Hmm... it would seem that no one gave any notice to Roxas-rules' comment about the Mad Hatter's song. Mcoolister 21:26, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Symbol

Xeyj - Sora....you're lucky. Looks like my summer vacation is...over. TALK - We're friends right? has anyone seen the pic with the heartless symbol with the nobody symbol ontop of it, it looks like the unbirth symbol.File:Heartless + nobody = unbirth symbol.jpg

Unversed=mind

Griffen78 - dood there is a heartless on your shoulder.....can I kill it? TALK - do i have a dark heart? think about it heartless=heart nobody=body and soul so unverse has to be mind its the only thing left XD

JudgmentDay95 - "Yes... Surely you must have known that this was going to happen." TALK - "Then I shall make you see... That hopes are nothing! Nothing but a mere illusion!" – 17:41 3 September 2009 (UTC) What about memories?

ya,but were to memories come from? the mind! also this page needs archived or something it is way to big.--griff 22:46, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

xNaminéx - 大キライだけど好き! TALK - I am...glad. Actually, Griffen, in the KH universe, memories come from the heart (ie If Naminé had crushed Sora's memories, his Heart would have been destroyed.)

Griffen78 - dood there is a heartless on your shoulder.....can I kill it? TALK - do i have a dark heart? true...my mind idea is still plossible though right?

JudgmentDay95 - "Yes... Surely you must have known that this was going to happen." TALK - "Then I shall make you see... That hopes are nothing! Nothing but a mere illusion!" – 17:55 3 September 2009 (UTC) The Unversed are those who don't know how to live, and they feed off of negative emotions. Since emotions seem to come from the heart, this would mean the Unversed may be more related to the Heartless than we thought.

Eternal Nothingness XIII - I'm not afraid of what the darkness holds now. Even if you do wrest control of my heart from me, even if you cast me into the deepest, darkest abyss, you'll never sway me from the one cause that pushes me to keep on fighting. Whatever the cost, I'm ready to pay it. TALK - There's darkness within me... So what does that matter? I know I'm strong enough to hold it back. — 22:58, September 3, 2009 (UTC) Well, I did help explain this, making it make more sense. Heartless = Born when the darkness gets the best of someone. Lit., the loss of the Heart. Heartless act on instinct, which is what the heart tells you (conscience) Nobody = Born when those w/ a strong heart or will becomes a Heartless. Lit., No Body. And since Nobodies can think, it is possible they are mind... Unversed = Those not well-versed in the way of life. Lit., the opposite. Possibly the mind, as well... Heart, Mind, and Soul (body). Soul = Heart and Mind combined Together Suppose that when someone becomes a Heartless, the mind becomes separate, escaping. This leaves the Soul. This is the Unversed. If they are minds, they are uneducated, as they are not well-versed in the way of life. If a mind is not educated to remember, it cannot. Maybe that is how the Unversed are born...of forgotten memories of the uneducated mind. We must be taught to remember. Maybe Terra, if he IS Xehanort from KH1 and II, what becomes an Unversed after the KH2FM secret ending. He would then lose his memory, becoming the Xehanort we know, who had lost his... Emotion is the basis of life, and are possible due to the mind (lit. caused by brain/heart/soul in real life, even though Square obviously doesn't follow that). Since the Unversed mind may not be legible, suppose they seek emotion from others so they can feel, and from those emotions which are again cause by the brain, think... If this requires further explanation, let me know.

Griffen78 - dood there is a heartless on your shoulder.....can I kill it? TALK - do i have a dark heart? ya that is true...they could be made up of emotion , but I can't think of how they would be created :P

JudgmentDay95 - "Yes... Surely you must have known that this was going to happen." TALK - "Then I shall make you see... That hopes are nothing! Nothing but a mere illusion!" – 18:02 3 September 2009 (UTC) Forgotten memories..... You make it sound like the Xehanort we know is an Unversed.

Griffen78 - dood there is a heartless on your shoulder.....can I kill it? TALK - do i have a dark heart? wait unversed=emotions that are shaped into a creature once the heart leaves the body....or in other words when a heartless is born the heart release all of the emotions with in createing a Unveresed

Eternal Nothingness XIII - I'm not afraid of what the darkness holds now. Even if you do wrest control of my heart from me, even if you cast me into the deepest, darkest abyss, you'll never sway me from the one cause that pushes me to keep on fighting. Whatever the cost, I'm ready to pay it. TALK - There's darkness within me... So what does that matter? I know I'm strong enough to hold it back. — 23:07, September 3, 2009 (UTC) Yes, but keep in mind that nothing of Xehanort's past has been revealed. It could very well be....and that is possible, with the Unversed and Heartless....but keep in mind that the Heartless were first emphasized 10 years AFTER the Unversed...

Griffen78 - dood there is a heartless on your shoulder.....can I kill it? TALK - do i have a dark heart? this is true,but maybe the emotions are released before the heart is?

JudgmentDay95 - "Yes... Surely you must have known that this was going to happen." TALK - "Then I shall make you see... That hopes are nothing! Nothing but a mere illusion!" – 18:09 3 September 2009 (UTC) No mention of the Unversed was made in any of the KH games. Something had to happen in order for them to not appear.

Eternal Nothingness XIII - I'm not afraid of what the darkness holds now. Even if you do wrest control of my heart from me, even if you cast me into the deepest, darkest abyss, you'll never sway me from the one cause that pushes me to keep on fighting. Whatever the cost, I'm ready to pay it. TALK - There's darkness within me... So what does that matter? I know I'm strong enough to hold it back. — 23:15, September 3, 2009 (UTC) The heart generates an emotion. It then sends it to the brain, which makes the emotion shown/ a reality. If the heart were lost, and disconnected to the mind/body, which are the Nobodies and possibly Unversed, than emotions cannot be created. While Nobodies don't show emotion, it could be that : A Nobody is created after an Unversed, which is the mind. Unversed are born when the Heart leaves. Full Person - Heart - Mind - Soul (emotion) = Empty shell This means that Unversed, those without emotion, for my possible reasons from my last post, could be more alike to the Nobodies than we think, rather than Heartless... Grrr, this is frustrating...I have various thoughts on my mind, but can't express them like I want...why not just ask questions about a certain part of my explanation? Getting things out piece by little piece at a time will lessen the chaos in my head...

GohanRULEZ - Turn Back the Pendulum,Shout the Truth TALK - We're not tools of the government or anyone else. Fighting was the only thing I was good at, but at least I always fought for what I believed in I have three different theories about the Unversed,but explaining them may lean to me killing myself. I believe that the unversed are either the mind or soul or both. They were probably created by Master Xehanort to throw the chasers off,but thats just one of the many theories I have in my head.

Unversed!?

With the Unversed theory is true or not the idea with them is very intriguing. It makes sense that the unversed were before the heartless and nobodies, but there is one question to be answered. What happened to the unversed and their disappearance or what even happened to them.

The Unversed are some really fascinating subject.

Heartless

Xabryn - I don't care if you're real!You're not better! TALK - It's nice to have darkness on my side.00:09, November 22, 2009 (UTC) I have a theory of why heartless dosen't exist on BbS:The negative feelings that make the dakness on the hearts grow, how the unversed absorve then there no way the heart being take by the darkness. maybe that's why they dosen't exist.

now heres something completely different

my theory is that the unversed are artificial beings possibly created by master xehanort so by being a new species they are 'unversed in their own existence' and if a limited amount of them were made then maybe thats why they werent in any later KH games or maybe not i dont know we'll have to wait and see right Yojimbo and diagoro 00:03, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

Firaga44 - Everyone's favorite anime nerd is back and kicking!Well not everyone's favorite but you people get the idea >.< TALK - All i hear during that cutscene blah blah blah. Sounds possible i'm working on a theory of my own but all i got is...Those who were not well-versed in their own existences=Knowing little about their existence.

My Theory

LOMI, Voice of Nothing Master of Fiction {{{1}}}