Talk:Vanitas

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Archive 1 - November 05, 2009

Trailer Info

Some of the Birth by Sleep Trailers Have been leaked. in one Master Xehanort Says "Those who Submit to darkness are not qualified to Wield the keyblade. already that man" Cuts to apprentice as he says this "has become a monster consumed by Darkness. use your power to defeat the darkness and correct my mistake." these trailers are on youtube. you might have to dig around a bit but it's there. should be mentioned in a article edit for link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuoA5DL_oM0&feature=related

i wonder why xehanort actually says that when in the final mix secret ending he seems to be fighting together with his apprentice and not against him --Darksoldier 12:47, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

maybe he changed his mind or that scene happens before this one

Speculation

Yer mom - SOMOS HOMBRES O PAYASOS!!!! TALK - {{{time}}} There is a lot of speculation in the Trivia, should we add a special part for theories or leave it where it is? (Some of those theories sound like nonsense tho...

like what?--KHF 19:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

i agree with that. there should be a theorys secttion , and some of it does sound like nonsense so you should add a section nammed that too! :D. but im not in charga that so.....

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Oh god, PLEASE no theories section...

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? ...And you are?

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Tetsuya Nomura.

I agree with NeutraVega. A theories section would defeat the purpose of the wiki being for facts. We will add information as it is given to us by the game designers, not add our ideas of what the designers might say. LapisScarab 20:52, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Lapis, my man, I truly wish that was the case. But alas, there is a wide variety of morons to be found about up in here that tend to contest logic, information, and reasoning with pure drivel and nonsense.

There you go again, Neutra... Forget the theories section, only the few bits of speculation should be left there. At least for Xion, we had one, and the page was vandalised. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne — 02:14, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it's necessary to go that far, Neutra. There's no harm in speculating, in my opinion, so long as it stays off the actual articles. I'm pretty sure Tetsuya Nomura has said that he leaves mysteries in the series to make us use our imaginations and speculate. It's just that wikias aren't the place for it. LapisScarab 02:50, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* You're right. There isn't any harm in doing speculation. But there is when it comes to involving factual articles in it.

After all, the whole purpose of the few bits of speculation is to keep the enthusiasm up. While too much of speculation's bound to damage the article, a few wouldn't hurt. If there ever should be a theory section, that's the section where our current speculation is. No more, and any further speculation should come into the talk page for filtering. There are some things even the stars cannot tell me. • TroisNyxÉtienne — 13:07, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Enthusiasm? Keep it up? Is it me, or have you forgotten Master Eraqus? That, my dear, is the result of "trying to keep up enthusiasm." Everyone got all excited like, and it turned into a shitstorm. And don't you DARE say I started it all... If anything, you all got to thinking straight afterwards. Let's not have an encore.

I'd also like to bring something up; Vanitas and the other characters from Birth By Sleep are from a game that has yet to be released, meaning that a lot of these questions will be answered during the course of the game. There is no reason to speculate on the articles until the game has been released and some questions answered. Basically, a speculation section in any article about a game that has yet to be released is pointless, as the release of the game will likely render the contents of the section moot. LapisScarab 03:24, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

...NeutraVega, please don't engage in denial. We put up an article based on the best information we had, backed up by multiple sites, and you raised a shit-fulled temper tantrum. Certain editors over-reacted to your calls that we report nothing at all, but the blame for the spectacle rests squarely on your shoulders.

Here's a hint - information translated by those of our editors who are fluent in Japanese is only unofficial, not "groundless specualtion".Glorious CHAOS! 09:59, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Don't insult my godamn intelligence; I know full well the difference between speculation and unofficial albeit factual information. The shit that was in there was outright crap straight from KHInsider forums. That's not to say all of it was. But a fair chunk? Damn straight. Like I said...no encore performances. Let's stick to facts. Intriguing trivia, sure. Speculation? lolno

We're going the best we can. And besides, half of that speculation is made by anonymous viewers or other users who are still new here. They don't know better. Just lay off.--NinjaSheik 17:43, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

...You complained about the name (and that only, looking at the page). Which was translated straight from the katakana, and was checked against multiple Japanese news sites.

Besides his name, nothing on this version of the page was unconfirmed. And that's the version of the page that we had while you were whining. And with respect to the final confirmed name, your tantrum amounted to saying we should delete all information and pictures we had just because the name ended up having a "u" shifted over one place. Wow, what a huge difference.Glorious CHAOS! 05:29, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* That's right. I complained. And I was RIGHT. I TOLD you to wait until an official romanization was out. But you were dead set that you were right... I fail to see why you would even bring that up, and use it against me considering you were wrong...

Small note: If you weren't so massively in denial you would notice that I was not "dead set that I was right", and even posted a possible alternate name based on what the Japanese sites were saying. I was, however, dead set on not deleting an entire article on a character just because his name might have a "u" shifted.

But! Oh my goodness, you've just shown me the light. Of course we should delete an entire page worth of information because the initial translation was not as intended, even if was sensible. In fact, we should delete every single piece of information that hasn't been translated by it's original creators. Hell, how do we even know that the Final Mix games even exist? They haven't been released in English, so their existence must be ridiculous speculation.

Thank you so, so much, for making our fallacy clear. That's the wrap everyone! NeutraVega's explained why we should deny the existence of the Final Mix material!Glorious CHAOS! 07:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Well said ! TNÉ _{En avant Bravo !} 13:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Too much QQing going on... does it really matter if we speculate or not? --Black Judgment of Guyviroth 13:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Note to self: Never make Kryten mad.... Well, there needs to be a medium with our speculation. Too much speculation is bad for the article but having some isn't terrible. - HeartOfOblivion 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Ha, if you ask me, every released bit of information is bound to have speculation in its early stages. I know quite a bit of PR and journalism theory to actually say this. There's no stopping the people from speculation. But that doesn't mean that we have to be flamed for it. Which reminds me, there's another user who found that the speculation was wrong (his guess was right), but took it very gracefully. TNÉ _{En avant Bravo !} 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

i dont think ther is. just as long as u tell that its speculation...by putting it in a speculation section *cough cough* -mr.XeroXero

EXACTLY, but if we do put in one, we have to limit the number of speculation bits just like we did for Xion, Ven, Terra and Aqua. TNÉ _{En avant Bravo !} 14:00, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Yes!! even if its limited i dont mind. i rly do like to read what other ppl think n stuff.

I suppose that could work so long was we regulate the speculation, but I think we should wait until after Birth By Sleep comes out. That way, more questions can be answered and the speculation section can be for the unanswered questions. It'll be more organized. LapisScarab 02:17, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

My thoughts exactly. TNÉ _{je t'♥ mélancolie !} 02:42, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm... i agree. itd also keep the Speculation down i guess since more questions WILL be answered. that way it wont tic anyone off if they thunk thers "too much". -mr.xeroxero

Voice Actor

hey, judgementday, i'm not saying you're wrong, (i've definitely heard the voice before, though i'm bad at placing it...) just show us where you found out it was Miyu Irino, and it'll be settled, but unless there is a verified and checkable source, you can't leave his name on the page --Neumannz 21:06, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? I know I've heard his voice before, but I just can't make that connection, like you said. Didn't Nomura say that both Vanitas' and Eraqus' voice actors are 'difficult to hire'?

ah, the voice of riku? that i think i can hear now... still, is the VA officially Mamoru Miyano? --Neumannz 21:55, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

It sounds like Miyano, sure, but we're not putting anything up until it's announced.—Urutapu 22:01, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

and that's just fine with me --Neumannz 22:09, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

OK, I apologize. However, the reason why I kept undoing many of the changes was because when I got on, I noticed that someone had listed Miyu Irino as the VA. I assumed that was official, and so I decided to make sure that this page kept it that way.

Well, I guess this is what I get for assuming. Again, I'm sorry. User:JudgmentDay95

It's nothing personally against you, I was just pretty annoyed that by the time I had gotten to the page like four people had already posted Irino/Miyano.—Urutapu 23:51, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* @Urutapu: Yeah. Okiayu and Toyoguchi haven't exactly been announced either...yet, here we are! But that said...I know I've heard his voice several times before myself... But there's NO WAY in hell it's Mamoru Miyano or Miyu Irino...

Removed from page

"Secret video" synopses are not canon, and should be restricted to a mention in trivia or lead that "so and so appeared in this secret video". Right now, a few minutes of video barely featuring Vanitas takes up 80% of this article, which is weak.

This info should be integrated with the main BBS video page.Glorious CHAOS! 05:48, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

It should also be written competently before being reinserted into article space.Glorious CHAOS! 05:49, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you just add/delete the video article? You don't need to remove the whole thing. Cococrash11

Because it's not canon, and we have no idea where it fits into the character's history. It shouldn't be on this page at all.Glorious CHAOS! 10:05, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? Then by all means, remove articles with the ASAS and Deep Dive summary too, since they contain material not represented in the games either.

What the heck are you talking about? Vanitas's orgin and first apearnce is Birth By Sleep video just like Master Xehanort. WHy don't you include video in the article? Master Xehnort, Terra,Ventus, and Aqua had one to. Cococrash11

The Story section is supposed to be a chronological summary of that character's plot. Consider - including the video synopsis 1) claims that it is canon, which it is not, and 2) claims that they did the video before they did their actual story. For example, the way Deep Dive was placed for Riku, it claimed he fought Roxas before going to Castle Oblivion, which is wrong.

At most, there should be a mention that "X appeared in secret video Y" in the lead or something. However, those videos ARE NOT CANON, and should only be summarized on their own article.Glorious CHAOS! 23:54, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Wait a second you're saying the the video isn't canon but you don't want to include in it? What the heck look at Terra,Ventus,Aqua, Master Xehanort, and Mickey Mouse they both had the Birth By Sleep video and The Gathering video and they didn't erase it like in Vanitas. In this page why can't Vanitas had both? Vanitas isn't included The Gathering is one thing and he dosen't appear in it I understand but his fisrt appearance is in the Birth By Sleep video. So why isn't Birth By Sleep video article mention in Vanitas? If the video article for Vanitas is too big just make it small enough to not watse space, or just include everything in BBS video about Vanitas in the Vanitas page. I thought you guys want to improve articles in this wikia not erase the truth? Beside you're saying that the Riku in Deep Dive is before he went to Catsle Oblivion who told you that? This happen after KHCOM and 358/2 Days not between KHI and KHCOM. cococrash11

Please don't be an idiot.

1. The placement of the Deep Dive video in Riku's article would be between KH and KHCom, which is incorrect.
2. It's specifically not truth, it's un-fucking-canon.

If you're unwilling to listen at all to what the other person is saying, then just shut up, please.Glorious CHAOS! 13:23, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Shut up! What you did dosne't make any sense. Beside the secret video deep dive is after KH1 FInal Mix and not the story line but the game producction history you idiot. Cococrash11

I will say it again.

THE STORY SECTIONS ARE NOT JUST DESCRIPTIONS OF WHAT THE CHARACTER HAS APPEARED IN. They are descriptions, in the style of timelines, of what happens to the character during the storyline of the series.

As placed, the secret video synopses claim that the characters did those things immediately after KH1 and KH2. That is nonsense. Riku did not defeat Roxas immediately after KH1 - he waited two games to do it.

This is pretty much exactly what I said two comments ago, and the fact that you're rambling on about production history (when I've been emphasizing the CANON STATUS as the important point) only shows that you're spending your time complaining instead of actually listening. I know damn well when the videos were produced; however, they are NOT CANON, and DO NOT FIT INTO THE CHARACTER'S PLOT SYNOPSIS, any more than the trading card game does. That is why I suggested that the information pertaining to the secret videos be covered specifically on that video's page, and to only have a link to it here.

In the future, instead of complaining in what is barely English, please reread the first person's comment so they don't have to repeat it multiple times.Glorious CHAOS! 20:11, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

As for your complaining on my talk page - if you can prove that those are the plots for those games, and not just people assuming things from the small snippets we do know, feel free to add them back in. As that is currently impossible, since the game isn't finished, I kind of doubt you'll be able to. As those pages were, they were making false claims, which is unacceptable.Glorious CHAOS! 20:20, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Guardian Soul Talk. — Don't I even warrant a hello? It's such a shame. The Organization used to be the rope that bound us together. - 20:37, October 31, 2009 (UTC) Okay, the concept videos are confirmed to be nothing more than concepts. That means they're non-cannon. It's beyond me why people on this wiki love to continue pointless debates about keeping unnecessary information on pages. All concept video information will be kept on those articles only. End of story.

Should We Consider Secret Videos As Appearances Per Say?

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* I'm bound to get heat for bringing this up, but then again, I always get heat for anything. The consequences of being a logical contributor... Anyways, I've noticed on this page, Vanitas has the KHIIFM+ emblem on top of the page which directs to whatever game the character appears in. But...when you think about it, Vanitas never actually appeared in ANY variation of KHII... At best, it's the secret video, but should that really count as an IN-GAME appearance..., as opposed to say Ven making a cameo in Days, or Aqua's armor showing up in FM+. Vanitas never really popped up anywhere....so, I'm just kind of curious if that should really stand as it is.

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? Well, technically, he made his first appearance in the secret video, so I say keep it. And I do believe the phrase is 'Per se', not 'Per say'. :P

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* I guess...but what about all the other articles? It's inconsistent as a fuckall. Once again, I think this is just a case of the jitter fever where a new character gets introduced, and everyone is all excited as hell to cram in as much stuff in as possible... Also...it works either way, "per say" and "per se." Neither is incorrect. :P

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? Well, then, I stand corrected.

KrytenKoro - You should have figured out whether bodies age without their hearts, Nomura. TALK - I had not noticed that. It should be removed, as Nomura has categorically said that the secret videos are uncanon. You're definitely right about that. "per se (also misspelled as "per say", "persay" or "persai")" As for "always get heat for anything" - no, you get heat when you act like an arrogant ass. Don't do it, and you'll get along fine.

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - One day, the light-it will be ours, and it will bring us together. Til then, I'll be in your heart... Oh, boy......

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* "Persai?" ...Who in the world came up with that one? Sounds like some bizarre Chinese Prince of Persia MMO ripoff...

Sephiroth? Irrelevant.

Vanitas being similar to Sephiroth is completely irrelevant. When I used to say irrelevant things it would get deleted. This is as well.

Well, the fact that Nomura makes some stupid joke about voicing him doesn't either. As I had said, let staff decide. Trivia is filled with the irrelevant. Accept it. - EternalNothingnessXIII 21:37, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? Hence, 'trivia'.

Eternal Nothingness XIII - Ven, Aqua... I'll find some way to make things right. TALK - This light... it's so warm. — 21:42, November 6, 2009 (UTC) Maggosh, are you on MY side in this? And to the other guy (can't remember your name atm), things are only "irrelevant and delete-worthy" when in the actual ARTICLE! Look around at the countless other pages. Tons of redundant facts galore.

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? Yes, I am, indeed, on your side. Merely emphasizing the fact that trivia has no correlation.

Using the exact same quote as another character designed by the same person is not irrelevant, though.

Anon, if someone disagrees with your edit, you discuss it on the talk page, you don't get into an edit war, or you'll get temporarily blocked. If you are unable to have patience in a discussion, then you're not actually discussing, you're just demanding you get your way. That's not how it works.

EO, the wiki is not ruled by the staff. A better reason for reverting the anon's edit was that he hadn't discussed it or given an edit reason, which is what needs to be done when removing content (unless blatantly vandalism). But if you two can come to a cordial decision on your own, that is much preferable than dragging the staff into it.

I've changed it to something that uses the most recent use of that quote by a Nomura character, in what I feel is a more likely analogy. However, it's still a very common thing for the bad guy to say, so it would be fair to remove it if there is still contriversy.Glorious CHAOS! 22:23, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I realized the potential edit war. That was why I mentioned staff. I know how things work. Sephiroth has more to do with than Garland, however. We could phrase it as :

• Vanitas/Sephiroth thing...(insert Garland connection here)

That way, we add even MORE redundancy. Sephiroth has the plot connection, and Garland has the character creator connection. - EternalNothingnessXIII 22:27, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

...

This is a battle quote utilized by Sephiroth, another man who turns to darkness and abandons his old allegiences in the Final Fantasy series, similar to how this Keyblade warrior falls to the dark and leaves the Keyblade masters of the Realm of Light.

Replace "Sephiroth" with "Garland" and you still have a true statement. Hell, Garland turns more literally to darkness than Sephiroth, who just throws a mega-tantrum. And Garland literally leaves the masters of Light, and is a parallel to the "Warrior of Light" (coughcough Ventus coughcough). Then, we have that Sephiroth has already appeared as a totally separate character in KH, negating any possibility for him to be Vanitas.

If we keep the trivia note at all, Garland and not Sephiroth should be used, I think. There's just no way that a Vanitas-Sephiroth connection would "mean" anything, since Vanitas is explicitly not Sephiroth.Glorious CHAOS! 22:37, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

There's no way he'd be Garland though. I'd say the only fair thing we do is come up with some way to combine the two. They're both right. - EternalNothingnessXIII 22:40, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I honestly think that using Sephiroth is stretching it, though, since Shinra was never the paragon of light, and Sephiroth didn't so much go straight to Darkness as just decide that everyone else was evil.

I guess it is somewhat relevant in that Sephiroth uses the quote within the KH series, but it's still pushing it to relate Vanitas to him, I feel.Glorious CHAOS! 22:49, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I know, Kryten, and I respect your opinion. Don't get me wrong. We really don't know how Vanitas tursn to darkness, or how/why/if he even does. I think we should stick with Sephiroth, as he's actually in KH. As I said, I think we could somehow mention Garland, as well. - EternalNothingnessXIII 22:52, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Well this topic takes the cake for ultimate pointlessness... Do I need to repeat what I've been trying to say past few weeks? Don't add what isn't necessary! It's really not that critical...

If your sum total of "contribution" is to come in and say "Look at me!", then please go the fuck away. You are annoying as all get out.Glorious CHAOS! 00:06, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

I agreed! You've been nothing, but trouble lately! You're worst than everyone at school I know! What the heck is your problem, anyway!?! I'm sick of you! Seeing you strut around like you're always right! OUI'NA YH YCCRUMA!--NinjaSheik 00:10, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Calling someone an asshole, even in another language should not be tolerated. NinjaSheik don't do it again and apologize as your intervention in this discussion was pointless and rude. --—YerMom _{is feeling jolly} 00:22, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Fine, I'm sorry for cursing. But, that doesn't chnage how I feel...--NinjaSheik 00:25, November 9, 2009 (UTC)