Talk:Randall Boggs

Rough draft

Same as the others. Also, avoid scarequotes used needlessly -- if the exact words used are not a critical part of understanding the scene, then just summarize them."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:36, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

{{spoiler}}
Managing to escape "being turned into a wallet", Randall seethed with revenge, drawing the attention of [[Vanitas]] of [[Real Organization XIII|the Organization]]. After explaining about how his world ran on the screams of children, Randall was offered assistance by Vanitas to get back for revenge against the duo who banished him; the dark being repaired the door by merging it with a dark corridor. They arrived at Monster's Inc., where Randall saw that the company had changed its business plan to instead harvest the laughter of children. Vanitas assured him that laughter (while 10xs more powerful than scream) was even harder to sustain and that [[Monstropolis]] would suffer another energy crisis. However, negative emotions could be just as powerful and lingered longer; if they managed to break the children's hearts over something truly precious to them, they would be able to harvest a great bounty of energy. To this end, Randall was given command of the [[Heartless]] and [[Unversed]], using them to cause chaos in the factory, while Vanitas sent more Unversed through doorways to scare children.

Keeping camouflaged, Randall saw that [[Sulley]] and [[Mike Wazowski|Mike]] had [[Boo]] with them again, along with [[Sora]], [[Donald]] and [[Goofy]]. To keep them occupied while Vantias harvested negative emotions with the Unversed, Randall sent Boo's door back to the Door Vault to force the heroes to chase after it. In a brilliant plan to send them further away from the Laugh Floor, Randall clung to a white door and camouflaged himself to look like the flower pattern on Boo's door; this allowed him to send them straight to the other side of the factory, where he revealed his plan and taunted them about the "upgrades" he made to the factory, which included lasers on the conveyor belts. Watching them fight off the Heartless and Unversed, Randall confronted them right outside the Tank Yard, where he planned on unleashing the most powerful Unversed at his disposal - the [[Lump of Horror]]; however, it did not wake upon his command. Randall promptly left in a huff to find Vantias to wake it. Momments after the group left, Vanitas did arrive and brought the Unversed to life, much to Randall's delight.

They took the Lump of Horror to the Door Vault to wait for the group, where Randall revealed that he would take over the company thanks to the Unversed's help. Watching from a safe distance above, Randall woke the Lump of Horror and watched it attempted eliminating his enemies. However, the Unversed was destroyed. Without any more minions, Randall was forced back through the door he came through again. As his poor luck would have it, the owners of the house he entered mistook him for an alligator again and hit him with a shovel. To ensure Randall could never get back, Sora sealed the door with the [[Keyblade]].

Vanitas would later mention Randall as a pawn consumed by his desire for revenge.
{{spoilerend}}

Move?

Do we need to move this to "Randall Boggs?" We use characters' full names in our article titles, regardless of whether or not they have been used in Kingdom Hearts (I never liked this, to be honest). For consistency's sake, should such a move be done? - Eternal Nothingness XIII 05:34, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

I thought it was the opposite and we only use names in KH media. If "Boggs" was dropped in the game or a journal entry, then it would be fair game, but it's not so simply "Randall" makes sense. And since we're on this topic, I think "Squall Leonhart" should be moved to "Leon" since 99% of the time, he's called Leon and he actively doesn't like being called Squall, meaning it's his former name, not his current one. Soroxas (talk) 05:53, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

The policy is to use the full name if it appears in the game. Randall is never called Boggs in the game, so we don't call him that. Leon, however, is called Squall both in the journal and by Yuffie, so we call him that. TheSilent Hero 08:16, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

But like I said, Squall is a former name. A name he does not identify with anymore. A name which he doesn't want other people to use, so it's only brought up in like one conversation. I know the journal claims "Squall Leonhart" is his "real" name (not sure if it's a mistranslation). The journal also says he had a name change, implying Leon is not simply an alias he prefers. Anyway, the journals seem self-contradictory so whatever. The coded journal does say "he abandoned his real name" however. If someone does that, then to me, it'd make sense to use their new name. Soroxas (talk) 08:56, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

The journals have consistently used the term "real name" -- not "birth name" or anything that would imply that calling him Squall is deadnaming him. They treat Leon as a nickname or an alias."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:01, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

YOUR recent Edits Kryten

KrytenKoro, Stop showing your bias and chastizing on anything that is written down. On top of that It makes no sense to just omit Randall's being surprised attack Sulley before returning to the door he was banished from cause simply putting this: "However, his happiness is short-lived and he is infuriated when the Unversed is destroyed. He is then restrained by Sulley when he surprises attack him. Defeated, he barely protests as Mike and Sulley force him to go back through his repaired door, and is clubbed once again by the humans on the other side." just feels slapped cause it just feels contrived to just have this sentence and continue arguing any sentence "it's regurgitated" ever time . On top of that putting in "[?]" here just feels forced it is literally him disguising himself as Boo's door why does that thing need to be here at all?

Also on the last line: "Waternoose is not a KH character and doesn't need to be covered here'"- I don't know why in the heck are you going so shrewd over this. Okay Yes he's not a KH character but honestly what you literally said also contradicts and "retcons" some of the other character article pages like Stitch and more recently Little Chef and Wreck-It Ralph pages also had mentions of characters who haven't appeared in the KH series under the origins section (e.g. Lilo for Stitch, Linguini for Little Chef, Vanellope for Wreck-It Ralph).--76.183.116.30 23:50, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

First of all, YOU should stop with the edit warring and turning this into a personal vendetta against Kryten.

He is then restrained by Sulley when he surprises attack him.

I just watched the cutscene again, and it's not really a surprise attack. He just walks up to him and roars. That's not really an attack. What he did to Vanitas, that was a surprise attack. Also, "when he surprises attack him" is not a correct sentence.

He uses his camouflage ability to disguise a door{{?}} as Boo's door home

The {{?}} template is used when there's information missing or needs to be confirmed. In the case of this sentence, it's missing the area the door leads to. I don't see how that feels "forced".

You do have a point about Waternoose. Other character articles mention non-KH characters in the origin sections. TheSilent Hero 17:58, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

"First of all, YOU should stop with the edit warring and turning this into a personal vendetta against Kryten."

I think Kryten needs to learn to stop being so shrewd and hypocritical and accusing every sentence as "regurgitated" or whatever the heck you guys want to call it. It's just a vicious cycle when some users try to expand the pages that have been stubs for months just have them pushed aside all just because "it's regurgitated" or the scene "is not needed" regardless if that scene happened in the game.

"I just watched the cutscene again, and it's not really a surprise attack. He just walks up to him and roars. That's not really an attack. What he did to Vanitas, that was a surprise attack. Also, "when he surprises attack him" is not a correct sentence."

Okay it isn't a surprise attack, but it still was a scene that happened prior before Randall returned into the door he was banished from, so I don't see why to omit it completely and throw this under the bus. In addition, Randall didn't expect Sulley was coming over to roar at him as he was just too distracted/busy angrily kicking the destroyed machine and Mike (through body/sign language and charade) told Sulley to roar at Randall to apprehend him.

"The {{?}} template is used when there's information missing or needs to be confirmed. In the case of this sentence, it's missing the area the door leads to. I don't see how that feels "forced"."

That area leads into the basement of the factory as shown in gameplay of the actual game (during story and after the story) - Basement (The Factory)

::"You do have a point about Waternoose. Other character articles mention non-KH characters in the origin sections."

But as I said earlier, Kryten's quote: "Waternoose is not a KH character and doesn't need to be covered here'" just contradicts and "retcons" some of the other character article pages like Stitch and/or more recently Little Chef, Wreck-It Ralph pages that had mentions of characters who haven't appeared in the KH series under the origins section previously (e.g. Lilo for Stitch, Linguini for Little Chef, Vanellope for Wreck-It Ralph). So frankly it makes no sense to have it dismissed and thrown under the buss completely.--76.183.116.30 00:51, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

"when some users try to expand the pages that have been stubs for months just have them pushed aside all just because "it's regurgitated" or the scene "is not needed" regardless if that scene happened in the game."

"script regurgitation" means that someone is just describing the stage movements, and quoting exact lines, from the characters, instead of writing in an encyclopedic style that summarizes the purpose of the scenes and actually informs the reader. It's bad writing and it makes the wiki look bad. There's also nothing "hypocritical" about pointing that out. It's better for an article to be marked as incomplete, than to have a section that reads like a child wrote it.

" so I don't see why to omit it completely and throw this under the bus"

It's not being ommitted. It's part of the "force him to go back through his repaired door". The passage is describing the meaning of what's going on, rather than exact stage movements. If you describe the scene to your friend as "Sulley roared at Randall", they're going to think "So?" If you describe it as "Sulley forced Randall to go back through his door", they will actually understand the point of the scene. The point of the scene wasn't that Sulley just wanted to roar, it was that Sulley was subduing Randall so they could send him back through his door. "As he angrily kicks the destroyed machine, Sulley roars at him." is script regurgitation that is redundant to the following sentence.

"preventing Randall from returning."

this clause is aggressively redundant to the previous sentence. It's already implicit that this is the purpose of Sora locking the door.

"Before Sulley can destroy the door"

phrasing it this way implies that Sora is trying to compete with Sulley. "This time" instead implies that Sora is suggesting an alternative solution.

Including the comma between "film" and the movie title is not grammatically correct as far as I can find.

What other Disney character articles do should not be the metric for what is proper to do -- especially since none of the articles you gave as examples are rated as "good articles" (two of them are even articles for KH3 characters, and still under construction!). What the MoS says to do, should be the metric. I disagree with going into to much non-KH detail, as "Mr. Waternoose" isn't going to mean much to a reader unless they already know what the Origin section is trying to inform them. However, I would support it if we used the main template to link to the movie's wikipedia article within the origin section, in addition to the lede -- that way, we're providing the reader a clear way to inform themselves on the jargon we're using."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:00, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

ENX edits

As a general overview, we are supposed to cover each scene a character appears in.

Giving a brief archetype and stating the origin of the character is the preferred format (ex. Aladdin). Also, the "introduced" and "originally taken" language is preferred.
"and he returns after the events of the film with help from Vanitas." -- the events of the film are not KH canon, and we shouldn't reference them in the lede as if they are. The previous version gives a brief summary of his events in the games, as backed up by the characters. Who is Randall? a former scarer. Why is he here? He was exiled for taking screams by force, and is back for revenge alongside Vanitas.
Era-headers are required for plot sections, even if the character only appears in one game. That being said, the first paragraph should probably be "before KH3".
"Randall is an employee at Monsters, Inc." - He's not.
"He targets a little human girl, Boo, but is defeated by his rival, James P. Sullivan, and banished." - he's banished for specific reasons that are critical to why Vanitas allies with him.
"a door to a human trailer home that was immediately destroyed, and barely escaped being killed by its inhabitants, who mistake him for an alligator." -- where he was sent is referenced both when he returns, and when he is sent back.
"Randall's door is repaired" -- by Banitas.
"and attempt to reclaim his prior prestige" -- this is an explicit character goal for Randall - to be #1.
"Randall learns the city has come to rely on the power of laughter" -- we don't have an indication that he learned this when he came back, instead of before he was banished.
"With their help, he infiltrated the factory and weaponized its machinery." -- this is the main way he comes into conflict with the heroes in the story.
"Randall's mission puts him in conflict once again with Sulley and Mike Wazowski. Randall and the Unversed infiltrate Monsters, Inc., but they are ultimately stopped by Sora, Donald Duck, and Goofy." -- this is far too vague.
Randall is not "solely" driven by revenge.
His opposition to the power of positive emotions is also implied to not be because of any principled objection, but simply due to narcissism.
"Voiced by Steve Buscemi," -- it's a bit unwieldy to combine in-universe and out-universe info in the same sentence. It flows better with the out-universe info in one sentence, and the in-universe separated.
"seeks to break the all-time scare record before his rival," -- the Scream Extractor plot specifically includes Randall saying that the scare record is farce. His main goal is to be better than Sulley, not through the scare record, but through solving the energy crisis.

"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 19:13, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

I was trying to solve problems, not create more. The edits have been reverted. - Eternal Nothingness XIII 19:23, 18 March 2019 (UTC)