 Archives |
|
So, as far as Kingdom Hearts III goes, rather than mention that Xion replicated Saix's Lunatic and fighting style several times, would we be able to instead mention Xion's ability to copy more vaguely in the Abilities section and then also include the Berserker in the Gallery under her weapons. It's interesting too because Xion didn't summon her replica Keyblade until Xemnas told her to kill Lea. It seems that it was because Xemnas reminded her of her past with Axel, but it's never really elaborated on. Also, Xion's face is not seen again until after she makes contact with Sora, which suggests that her Heart wasn't released from Sora until that point, but again, it's never really talked about. (Levi657 (talk) 17:02, 17 February 2019 (UTC))
Probably opening a can of worms here
But to me, it seems fairly obvious that Xion would qualify as trans (which, while still frustrating me that Nomura seemed to in some ways make her magical trans-ness the cause of her misery, does a lot to redeem her character arc by portraying her "good" ending as identifying as female).
Is this fair to state in the wiki? If I found notable articles discussing it, could I add it?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 21:54, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- That's solely opinion, and not allowed on the Wiki, as far as I'm concerned. We cover canon information, in which the Xion the story is concerned about is strictly female. Yes, she is intended to turn into Roxas/Sora, but this has nothing to do with her gender, in-universe or out. The furthest you could technically go is to say Xion's gender varies based on who looks at her, or how many of Sora's memories she has (enough to become a copy of him on Day 357). You could find the best fan-essay in the world, but adding "info" taken from such things goes completely against our policy here. -
Eternal Nothingness XIII 22:07, 21 February 2019 (UTC) - Definitely a can of worms, you're not wrong. It's tough because the "anatomy" of replicas isn't really covered. Are they created to be the body of a specific person before being given the memories, data, heart, etc. of the person inhabiting them to influence their structure? When we see "blank" replicas in 3 they are like mannequins, completely blank slates and presumably sexless. Based on that and her initial appearances in Days, I don't see Xion as really having a gender until she has an identity for herself at all, based on how Roxas ends up seeing her. And given that this series never really covers gender identity at all, whether for Xion or anyone else, it doesn't seem like a relevant topic for anything beyond fan discussion, how someone might resonate with similar struggles based on her experience's similarity to trans-related struggles, etc. Light
Roxas 00:34, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
- That's solely opinion, and not allowed on the Wiki, as far as I'm concerned. We cover canon information, in which the Xion the story is concerned about is strictly female. Yes, she is intended to turn into Roxas/Sora, but this has nothing to do with her gender, in-universe or out. The furthest you could technically go is to say Xion's gender varies based on who looks at her, or how many of Sora's memories she has (enough to become a copy of him on Day 357). You could find the best fan-essay in the world, but adding "info" taken from such things goes completely against our policy here. -
- I viewed Xion's struggle as coping and learning to accept her eventual reality that she would have to return to Sora and disappear from existence. She only appeared to Roxas as Sora for a few minutes. Trying to frame it as anything else, like a struggle with gender identity issues, comes across as reaching. If you think Xion's misery was due to anything related to gender, then I think you missed the point of Days entirely. If we can't even mention blatantly obvious stuff like the Elrena/Larxene and Lauriam/Marluxia connections on the wiki, then I don't see how linking to fan essays about how Xion's plight was actually about gender identity would be somehow okay. I thought we aren't really supposed to care about fan interpretation on very strict wikis like this, otherwise we'd be mentioning all the Sora x Riku stuff out there. Soroxas (talk) 02:11, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Her true appearance is that of a black-haired girl. She identifies as female, others refer to her as female, and no one ever questions otherwise. I really don't know what else to say. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 04:59, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
- ...no, Soroxas. Just...no. Read closer, and assume good faith. Also, for the record, we can't mention Lauriam/Marluxia because Nomura himself went to the trouble of saying Lauriam and Marluxia aren't the same people. That probably ties into what the Nameless Star said about becoming a completely different person, but still.
- Rex -- to be clear, Saix consistently refers to her as "it", and then the bit with Xigbar starts referring to her as a him. It's not explicitly "about" the gender, but on a basic level Xion's drama is still about her feeling obligated to submit to another identity she doesn't truly identify with (one which is male, to the point that she specifically says "If you see somebody else's face...a boy's face"), while others try to treat her as just an "it", but then by the point of KH3 being encouraged to reclaim her "true" identity (one which is female). I'm not sure I would really call that a fan interpretation, because what I've just stated is plain fact -- the interpretation would be whether Nomura actually intended any of that, or whether it's all complete coincidence."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:11, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
- Eternal: To be clear, I'd be talking about actual reputable articles, like something in let's say the NYT or famitsu, not fan essays on livejournal or tumblr. And I'm not asking to do a whole essay reinterpreting Days from a trans lens, but instead just state that Xion fulfills the criteria of being a trans character. Like, just that sentence, with a citation to a reputable article if necessary.
- Then again, going back to the fan interpretation, it appears to also be offensive to some to state outright "Xion is trans" when her contrived scenario is so unlike the real struggle of people in the real world, so from that tack maybe it would be best to leave this out after all?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:21, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
- "her contrived scenario is so unlike the real struggle of people in the real world" -- I agree with this I think. I can definitely see how some trans folks would resonate with Xion's struggle of identity, just as many identify with Roxas' struggle at individuality as well. But I don't think that's equivalent to say that she's technically trans simply given that it's never really covered or seen that way officially in the games. Light Roxas 13:47, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
- "her contrived scenario is so unlike the real struggle of people in the real world" -- I agree with this I think. I can definitely see how some trans folks would resonate with Xion's struggle of identity, just as many identify with Roxas' struggle at individuality as well. But I don't think that's equivalent to say that she's technically trans simply given that it's never really covered or seen that way officially in the games. Light
That chair was meant for Xion
Isn't that chair meant for Sora, and Xion is a replacement for Sora when they fail to commit him?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 18:00, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
- Who knows. I edited it for ambiguity. Soroxas (talk) 18:09, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
- That is my understanding as well. In KHDDD there was Master Xehanort, Xemnas, Ansem, Young Xehanort, Dark Riku, Vanitas, Terra-Xehanort, Xigbar, and Saix confirmed, so if you add in Luxord, Marluxia, Larxene, that leaves only one spot - I suppose Demyx was replaced by Dark Riku prior to the ending of KHDDD, and since Sora was intended as the 13th then it only makes sense that they would have used Xion as his replacement, as as replica of Sora's Nobody. (Levi657 (talk) 18:14, 5 March 2019 (UTC))