Talk:Universe of Kingdom Hearts

Dan - My friends are my power! Hi, I just noticed this whilst browsing, but the visual representation of the worlds and their position in the Realms doesn't correspond with the written information: - The written info. states that Traverse Town is in the Realm of In-Between, where the visual representation shows it in the Plane of Light. - The written info. states that Twilight Town lies directly in the middle of the Realm of In-Between, where the visual representation shows it far closer to the Plane of Light. I don't know whether I have the right to remove the image, if that's the problem, or to edit the text, if that's the problem. It was just a bit confusing, hope it gets sorted somehow ^_^ Evidence from the article:

Quote:

"Realm of In Between

The Realm of In Between (or the Realm of Twilight) is the third Plane of Existence in the Kingdom Hearts series, and lies between the Realm of Light and Realm of Darkness. Thus far the only known Worlds to exist in this plane are: Traverse Town, Castle Oblivion, Twilight Town and The World that Never Was. Each world tied closer to the Realm of Light or the Realm of Darkness, with the exception of Twilight Town, which exists exactly in the middle. Yen Sid's Tower also exists in this Realm."

And then there's the image:

File:Worlds.PNG

Dan da Man36 17:53, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Guardian Soul Talk. — Don't I even warrant a hello? It's such a shame. The Organization used to be the rope that bound us together. - 17:56, September 26, 2009 (UTC) That's a custom image that doesn't really look very professional. Some of the sprites aren't official either, so I'm deleting it.

the meridian's actual name is dark margin. that's the cutscene in days and the name it has when you use a cheat. I screwed that one up, my bad.

So about the dark corridors...

Webuiltthecross Talk with me! — "Go on just keep on running, but I'll always be there to bring you back!" You can't turn on the Organization! You get on their bad side and they'll destroy you! — 02:47, October 24, 2009 (UTC) Can anyone in the Organization, specifically Roxas, create them?

Nitrous X Talk! — Then I shall make you see...That your hopes are nothing. Nothing but a mere illusion! Don't I even warrant a hello, Lexaeus? They'd have to, to get to Where Nothing Gathers.

Webuiltthecross Talk with me! — "Go on just keep on running, but I'll always be there to bring you back!" You can't turn on the Organization! You get on their bad side and they'll destroy you! — 18:28, November 29, 2009 (UTC) So then in Days, why doesn't Roxas just use the Dark Corridors to escape the Castle That Never Was?

Maybe the other members can detect the dark corridors use in the castle since he did went to twilight town once he was out.--Masgrande 07:29, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Wonderland Portal

Should we mention Alice from Wonderland? When talking to her in Kingdom Hearts, she mentions she arrived in Wonderland after falling through a hole. This lead Sora to theorize that there are "other methods of inter-world travel besides Gummi ships". This could mean that some Worlds have portals to other worlds in specific locations, either naturally-occuring wormholes or rifts resulting from spatial distortion or disruption.

That last theory doesn't really need to be included, since it has no canon basis. But maybe we should mention that Alice got to Wonderland through a portal from her own world.

--Cyberweasel89 18:08, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah it's just like the Underworld, it's a different world inside another.--Masgrande 07:32, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

renders

Kingdom Hearts Fan TALK - It was the natural thing to do... why is it so hard to find the actual renders to all of these worlds!!! GRRR

Kingdom Hearts 358/2 days party members?

Yumekai627 - Then I shall make you see... That your hopes are nothing! Nothing but a mere illusion! TALK - You brought this upon yourself! should we add a section for them? Although they really aren't native to the worlds they are important none the less

BigHeadZack - You shouldn't judge anyone by appearance. TALK - If the subject fails to respond, use aggression to liberate his true disposition. Well, are you refering to the Organization Members for each missionn or....)

Strange senetnce

Sayin that the Realm of Nothingness is the fourth Plane of Existence is strange (and paradoxical). If it's the Realm of Nothingness is the realm of non-existence. That sentence should be removed.Redeemer & Destroyer 00:00, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Done.--Lapis ofthe Night 00:04, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Sperate Articles

Why can't Realm of Light, Dark Margin, and etc can't had their own articles? --Cococrash11 07:46, January 23, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11

I think they did at one point, but I don't know why they were merged. I can only assume the articles weren't good enough on their own.--Lapis ofthe Night 05:36, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

More on the Corridors of Darkness

I'm not sure if I'd be penalised for putting it straight into the article, but from what I've witnessed, MX and Vanitas were the first to use the Corridors of Darkness - chronologically. Shouldn't that be put in ? ★ Joyeux Wikiversaire ! ★ 04:47, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Dark Meridian vs. Margin

Eternal Nothingness XIII - You have to be strong. Strength of heart will carry you through the hardest of trials. TALK - What I do, I do for friendship. — 18:53, February 19, 2010 (UTC) Was the name "Dark Meridian" ever officialised? I was going to change this to "Dark Margin" wherever it appeared in the article, since the name appeared in a Days cutscene, but since our policy states not to change to Days renamings, I'm a bit hesitant...

Santa Claus

Iluvcinderella Listen and talk to my light-filled heart... — "Why, its like a dream. A wonderful dream come true!" Bibbidi, Bobbidi, Boo! — 00:39, May 11, 2010 (UTC) ok we believe in the "real world" that Santa Claus gives gifts around our globe by riding his sleigh, so I thought maybe Santa in the "Kingdom Hearts universe" gives his wonderful gifts in his sleigh into different worlds....and to get to the point, maybe Santa's sleigh is another mode of transportation to get to other worlds aside from gummi ships.....

Nitrous X Talk! — Then I shall make you see...That your hopes are nothing. Nothing but a mere illusion! Don't I even warrant a hello, Lexaeus? Makes sense to me. On the topic of the Nightmare Before Christmas and the Universe of Kingdom Hearts: The worlds could never totally be sealed off from one another because Halloween Town, Christmas Town, and the rest of the Holidays are all connected by the doors in the wilderness. Sort of like a System of Worlds... A World System instead of a Solar one, I suppose.

Neutral Areas

Nitrous X Talk! — Then I shall make you see...That your hopes are nothing. Nothing but a mere illusion! Don't I even warrant a hello, Lexaeus? Are there any areas that are neutral in the sense that they aren't a part of ANY of the four realms? Like Betwixt and Between or the Awakening?

Apart from Betwixt and the Awakening, I doubt there are anymore areas... The rest belong to their respective worlds, as I'm aware. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne — 02:45, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Nitrous X Talk! — Then I shall make you see...That your hopes are nothing. Nothing but a mere illusion! Don't I even warrant a hello, Lexaeus? Okay, thanks!

Who is the Ruler of each world?

Organization 13 - I'd rather we just skip the formalities. TALK - How I love a game! Who is the ruler of each world? I know a couple like Tron, Jack Skellignton and the Emperor but what about the rest?

I guess the current ruler/leaders are:

• Mayor (Destiny Islands)
• King Mickey (Disney Castle/Disney Town/Timeless River)
• N/A (Traverse Town)
• Queen of Hearts (Wonderland)
• Zeus (Olympus Coliseum)
• Kerchak (Deep Jungle)
• Sultan (Agrabah)
• Mayor (Halloween Town)
• Monstro (Monstro)
• King Triton (Atlantica)
• Peter Pan & Captain Hook (Neverland & Hook's Ship)
• Hollow Bastion Restoration Committee (Radiant Garden)
• ??? (Twilight Town)
• Aqua (Castle Oblivion)
• The Emperor (The Land of Dragons)
• Beast (Beast's Castle)
• Governor Swann (Port Royal)
• TRON (Space Paranoids)
• Yen Sid (Mysterious Tower)
• The Prince + Snow White (Dwarf Woodlands)
• Prince Philip + Aurora (Enchanted Dominion)
• Prince Charming + Cinderella (Castle of Dreams)
• Grand Councilwoman (Deep Space)

Not listing the destroyed worlds (End of the World, The World That Never Was, Keyblade Graveyard (?)).

Iluvcinderella Listen and talk to my light-filled heart... — "Why, its like a dream. A wonderful dream come true!" Bibbidi, Bobbidi, Boo! — 01:44, June 7, 2010 (UTC) umm I don't like to argue guys but from what i think it's Ansem the Wise that is the ruler of Radaint Garden and the HBRC are only temporary leaders until Ansem gets back.

Even if Ansem comes back, he not only allowed the world to fail in the first place, but has also been mind-broken.Glorious CHAOS! 04:54, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Iluvcinderella Listen and talk to my light-filled heart... — "Why, its like a dream. A wonderful dream come true!" Bibbidi, Bobbidi, Boo! — 01:19, June 8, 2010 (UTC) but still, in MY OPINION HBRC are only protectors and not leaders.

That is usually what a leader is, yes.Glorious CHAOS! 03:02, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Iluvcinderella Listen and talk to my light-filled heart... — "Why, its like a dream. A wonderful dream come true!" Bibbidi, Bobbidi, Boo! — 05:20, June 8, 2010 (UTC) In the worlds dwarf woodlands, enchanted dominion and castle of dreams, the rulers are evil queen, king stefan/queen leah,the king(dunno the name) and the respective prince and princesses in the mention worlds are not the rulers (i think....)

Aren't they pretty well dead by the end of the story, though? I thought part of the reason for the Cinderella ball, at least, was because the prince was taking the throne. If not, then fine, it's still their parents.Glorious CHAOS! 15:15, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

World Time

Okay so i'm getting this theory about the worlds and i won't you people to tell me what you think. So here it goes:

In Kingdom Hearts 2, Selphie and Kairi were seen in school clothes,implying that they are in a school year. But while this was going on, Hayner, Pence, and Olette were in their last days of summer vacation. So i've been thinking that maybe all of the worlds have a different time zone, or maybe time goes faster in some worlds. It's been bugging me for days and i would like to know if there are some speculations that this could be true?--65.126.114.244 00:23, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Or, the Destiny Islands are a southern-hemisphere type of world (close to the equator, though), and Twilight Town is a northern-hemisphere type.Glorious CHAOS! 01:55, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

or at destiny islands school had just started

TobiasHawk - "Link START!" TALK - "Life is like drawing a line, it's never perfect." -- 18:19, 23 September 2013 (UTC) -- My YouTube And Kairi, being the BA she is, decides to skip school to help out the worlds.

Realms

Okay I'm confused the article states that worlds such as Twilight Town exist in the realm of nothingness, and that it's Japanese name is the realm of in between, but that doesn't make sence. In ENGLISH text Ansem the Wise said in his Secret Reports that he was banished to the realm of nothingness. Also when he first talks about Castle Oblivion, he describes it as a "world on the outer limits of light and darkness" NOT as a world in the realm of nothingness but in a forth realm all together. He also says that when a Heartless is born the old entity, their body and soul, disapears and arrives in a completely different realm, and describes Twilight Town as a world in the "chasm between light and darkness" AFTER he left the realm of nothingess. Also Pete, when in The World That Never Was, he says "this in between world" So what happened? Also the earlier parts of the article states that there are four realms also. 76.108.136.28 01:55, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

The japanese-only Ansem Reports from Final Mix specifically state that there is just "this present realm, the realm of light", "the realm of darkness", and "realm of in-between". "In-Between" is the term used in Japanese material where "nothingness" is used in English (Ex: Xemnas is "Superior of the In-Between", and his element is Nothingness). Nomura even said that The World That Never Was was part of the realm of in-between, and that's the world Ansem seems to be talking about in the Secret Ansem Reports. The two terms are never used together in the same material - it is purely a difference in translation, not in meaning.03:06, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

That doesn't change the facts that in the ENGLISH secret ansem reports that Ansem the Wise writes about 4 realms, one of light one of darkness, one of nothingness, and a fourth realm that he mentions as being in between light and darkness clearly stating that in english the realms of in between and nothingness are different things. Another thing he states is that he first arrives in Twilight Town he describes it as a world in the "chasm between light and darkness" which is after he escapes his banishment to the realm of nothingness. He also states that the realm of nothingness as a place "where all existence has disintegrated", so how then can a world such as Twilight Town exist there, and again I bring up Pete who calls The World That Never Was an "in between world." That says that in English there are 4 realms and the last time I checked this is an English Wiki. 76.108.136.28 15:38, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Pea14733 Freeze! — 15:53, September 12, 2010 (UTC) Well, I think it's a FAIL here....

...no, he never writes about four realms. He describes the realm of nothingness in more detail, is what he did. Seriously, he never states, concretely, "realm of in-between" and "realm of nothingness" - they are simply two different translations for the same thing.

Also, seriously? Just because it's the English Wiki doesn't mean we can't look at the original material and say "Oh, it's the same thing. The translators just goofed/we aren't reading it correctly."Glorious CHAOS! 06:17, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

He states that the realm of nothingness is something "where all existence has disintegrated" as I've mentioned earlier. I don't see how a world can exist at all. He also says that Twilight Town is in the chasm "between light and darkness" when did he ever describe the realm of nothingness as such. Also in the Secret Ansem Report 6 while he is still in the realm of nothingness he states that when a Nobody is created it disapeares from the realm of light and appear in a completely different realm he never says that they appear in the realm he was currently in. Also in the 6th he mentions for the first time the corridors of darkness which he says "connect the realm of nothingness with the outside world," the other realms. Later in the 7th is the first time he mentions Twilight Town and Castle Oblivion, worlds between light and darkness and by this time he would have already escaped the realm of nothingness using the dark corridors as he mentions in the previous one he stats using a new identity, DiZ, before returning to the realm of light. After that point he never mentions the realm of nothingness again, but also begins to describe a new realm situated between light and darkness, which he refers to in his 11th report as the "realm between". The only time the two realms are mentioned together is in his 6th report, where he refers to the two places as two different areas.76.108.136.28 19:38, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Also Ansem the Wise describes the "realm between" as unstabe and that corridors of darkness appear from time to time, but in the realm of nothingness he didn't know the corridors existed until he accepted the darkness and started to use it. If the two realms were indeed the same wouldn't he have noticed them appearing while he was trapped. And wouldn't he have noticed the existence of Twilight Town, Traverse Town, Castle Oblivion, and The World That Never Was before he returned.76.108.136.28 20:11, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

I, too, have had everything taken away from me, banished to a hollow realm of nothingness.

If the light of hope has been extinguished, I shall henceforth walk with darkness as a friend. Here, in the realm of nothingness to which I have been relegated.

How long have I been here, banished to the realm of nothingness?

In this realm, where all existence has been disintegrated, I have just barely managed to preserve my sense of self by continuing to think and to write.

With this new power, I uncovered a "corridor of darkness" that connects the realm of nothingness to the outside world. While it is still difficult to come and go as I please, my banishment is now a thing of the past. To deceive Xehanort and my apprentices, I first used my power to change form before returning to the realm of light.

Seeking to uncover the plans of this Organization, I have decided to head for where six of its members have gathered. Towering over the outer limits of the realm between darkness and light:

This "realm between" is quite unstable, with corridors of darkness appearing from time to time.

The Realm of the Present...The Realm of darkness. The Realm of light. And, The Realm of in-between.

Now, in addition to the realm of light in which we reside, there is also a realm of darkness, and the realm between which connects the two. The realm of darkness is most forbidden; I am told none who set foot there have ever returned.

Concerning the structure of worlds, first Sora and the Disney characters, and where ever we dwell, these so-called normal worlds are attached to the Realm of Light. If all of these exist at the same level and you imagine them all sitting on top of a plane, there is also a plane of existence on the other side where the Realm of Darkness exists.

At present, there are 4 worlds in-between these planes that have appeared: A) Castle Oblivion, B) Twilight Town, C) Yen Sid's Tower, and D) The World That Never Was. Constructed in this manner, Light < C < B > A > D > Darkness, you can imagine 2 planes with stairs ranging between the worlds. There are 2 means of transfer between these worlds, first being the Gummi Ship Sora uses in what is called the "Sea of Outer Space". In this way they can come and go between the worlds dotted through space. There is an invisible shell covering these worlds, so as to preserve the original world from interference from other worlds. By opening the hearts of each of these worlds this shell is broken and will become a group of shooting stars pouring down. Once settled, these shooting stars will become the Gummi Parts of the Gummi Ship. Because they were originally from the shell covering this world, it becomes possible to interfere into each world.

There is one more method, the use of the "Dark Corridor". There are those who are on a fallen path, essentially not being on the path they should be. Only those who can be said to have a Dark existence or an In-between existence can make these doorways. On rare occasion those with particularly strong feelings or hatred, such as the case with Beast and DiZ and perhaps others like them can open these paths. However you must be careful when coming into contact with such darkness. As such, if you use these paths too often you will be completely swallowed by darkness. Sora has used these paths several times before, but the degree of frequency hasn't allowed the darkness to stain his heart, so you can think of the influential power of darkness as being dependent upon the strength of the persons heart.

As for the Nobodies who have no heart and the King and Riku, using these paths many times doesn't concern them. Why doesn't the darkness progressively swallow them you ask? There are secret similarities between the two that are talked about in the game.

What can be called the dark coastline seen at the beginning and end of KHII is the tip of a world. It is not strictly part of the realm of darkness but rather what serves as the boundary line in between the dark and the in-between.

Nomura only covers "Light", "In-Between", and "Darkness". Xehanort does the same thing. Ansem talks about how unstable the Realm Between is, and how Corridors infrequently appear there. That matches what he said earlier about the realm of nothingness disintegrating things, and him finding a corridor of darkness there. Nomura says that you can only use the corridors once your heart gains the power of darkness, and Ansem basically says that as soon as he accepted some darkness, he was able to make a corridor out. This means that there is no further incongruity between the two situations. Ansem also says that the worlds in the "realm in-between" are refuges of those from lost worlds - what we saw with Traverse Town, for example. We also have The World That Never Was, which doesn't even exist, Mysterious Tower and Land of Departure/Castle Oblivion, which are bastions with their own precarious existence, and Twilight Town, where we have at least one Nobody being born, matching the "other realm" Ansem SoD talked about in the original Ansem's Report. All of these situations match "a realm where existence is disintegrated" - none of them are meant to exist, and they are the dregs of worlds devoured by darkness.

As I said earlier, we also have the fact that "In-Between" is used to refer to the element of Nobodies and Void - Dense materials are called "In-Between" in Japanese, and Xemnas is "The Superior of the In-Between". Xemnas also frequently calls the existence of Nobodies/Twilight/nothingness something "in-between light and dark".

From an aesthetic standpoint, it doesn't make sense to duplicate Nothingness/In-Betweenness. You have + (Light), - (Dark), and 0 (In-between/Nothingness). It provides a nice continuum.

However, re-reading the reports, I do think it's possible to fairly interpret the realm of nothingness as applying to that empty plane that Riku finds himself in at the beginning of Chain of Memories, or possibly the void that you fight Xemnas in. It's not what I think is true, based on all this evidence, but from the Report alone, I think it's possible to read that. However, we have had multiple, both from the author himself acting as "Word of God", and in the most recent game, and even when alternate realms were first introduced, which only enumerate three realms. Reading the realm of nothingness as separate is a conceit that only occurs in KH2, and it just isn't supported by the other material.Glorious CHAOS! 20:59, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

You just touched upon something else, the area that you fight Xemnas, it is different than anything else seen in the series. NOTHING seems to exist there. Unlike the realm of light where the worlds of Disney, Radiant Garden, and Destiny Islands, the realm of darkness where Kingdom Hearts is, and the realm of In-between where Twilight Town, Mysterious Tower, The World That Never Was, Traverse Town, and Castle Oblivion all EXIST. Also this area looks similar to the thorns of nothingness that the Twilight Thorn and Xemnas, while in this area, both use, and appears around the portals that the generic, nonhuman, Nobodies travel through if one looks closely enough. Also the designs of the swirling areas appear similar to generic Nobodies, which are basically personiffications of nothingness considering they live without hearts. Also Nomura in his report only mentioned the worlds and the realms in which they exist. Indeed he never mentioned an empty realm nor did he deny it, he left to our imaginations, but hopefully he will clear things up in a future game as has been done with several things before, for example who the kid in the videos Another Side, Another Story... and the Deep Diver version and was later revealed to be Roxas, whose backstory was a mystery until the release of 358/2 Days.76.108.136.28 21:51, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Another thing about the final battle field of Kingdom Hearts II is that when you move around in it you don't seem to go anywhere because the surroundings appear to stay in place, supporting the idea that nothing exists here.76.108.136.28 21:53, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

That may be, but its pure speculation, and as I've said before, (1) only once has a "realm of nothingness" been mentioned, (2) it wasn't in an enumerated list of realms, and (3) it still jives quite well with the realm between.Glorious CHAOS! 22:53, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

I'll admit that the last things I added were speculation, but I got my point across: We don't know what this place is. It also conveys my point of view of what it is but,I admit, it could just as easily be a part of the realm of light due to its apparent absence of darkness. Also as I said all this has a good chance to be clarified in a later game. Until then if the article continues to say there are 3 realms, at least say there are 3 CONFIRMED realms known to exist.76.108.136.28 23:21, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

That would imply that we hedge nearly every single phrase on the wiki as "confirmed". All enumerations of the realms only list three, and all information on the wiki is assumed to be confirmed. If Nomura later says "I changed my mind", we change the articles accordingly, but until then, we assume that he hasn't. Thanks for your input, though, it's very much appreciated.Glorious CHAOS! 12:57, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Home world?

What would make a world qualify as a "home world" to a character? Just living there, or is it their place of birth?--Lord Captain Cecil Harvey 14:00, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Their place of birth 17master 14:09, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Stars -connected to people?

Pjk777 - And remember... You are the one who will open the door... TALK - Got it memorized? TIME - The Oblivion Keeper, PJK777 01:33, October 30, 2010 (UTC) In Birth By Sleep, Yen Sid said that Master Eraques's star went out after his death. Should we mention that stars could possibly be connected to people in the Star section?

No, I think that it could be a reference to Eraqus' world being destroyed, since that is how it is in KH when Goofy sees Destiny Islands disappear. Or, it could just be something that only Yen Sid sees or even just a metaphor for, "he died." ParadiseFusion15 9:45, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Lanes Picture

Are ther pictures of the complete lanes in between or the space map from KH, KHII and KHBBS that could be uploaded to this article, if that is allowed that is.--Masgrande 04:11, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

Party Members??

Do we really need to include them? Even if so, I should point out that a large portion of the included characters are not truly 'party members'. Twilightning 03:50, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah they are. Every single one listed gets an HP gauge icon and everything."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 06:21, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

World Party Members

KrytenKoro: No, it's actually a large part of the plot that they disappear in Destiny Islands, and for Mickey in Hollow Bastion. The game treats them as equivalent to world allies

The part were Donald and Goofy disappears is similar too when Donald and Goofy goes away from Sora at the beginning of Hollow Bastion in KH1, or when they run off after Goofy gets hit in the head. They vanish for a while, but they're still a part of the main party team. When you revisit Destiny Island later in CoM Donald and Goofy will show up, same goes for Mickey. A world party member would be a character which randomly appears in a world, and you only fight alongside the person in that world, or you randomly meet them again in another world. But when they follow you around in almost every single they're not world party. They're main party members. There is one world in KH1 which Donald and Goofy doesn't appear in, which is the 100 Acre Woods. Seeing as they don't appear in that one world, should they be considered world party members in KH1 and KH2 as well? - JTD95 01:18, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

My question: Do Donald and Goofy appear on return trips to DI, and does Mickey appear on return trips to HB? --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 01:22, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Just checked a few hours ago. When Sora or Riku revisits worlds after completing the game, they can obtain Donald, Goofy and Mickey friend cards during battles in every single world with the exception of 100 Acre Woods. - JTD95 01:30, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I was wrong, then. Sorry about that."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 02:24, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Lanes Between

TheFifteenthMember Yes. You're creepy. I can't say we'll miss you while you're gone, so it'd be best if you did go. We all win that way. — TheFifteenthMember 20:47, 17 May 2012 (UTC) I wonder how Minnie had the power to banish Pete into the Lanes Between in BBS and how did Pete not 'corrupt'.

Query

TheFifteenthMember Yes. You're creepy. I can't say we'll miss you while you're gone, so it'd be best if you did go. We all win that way. — TheFifteenthMember 16:27, 1 June 2012 (UTC) Under Ways of Travelling it says that Star Shards are Gummi pieces. I don't remember anywhere, the game saying this, unless it says it in 3d.

Star Shards are made of material similar to Gummi Pieces, or a similar structure to Gummi Pieces. Erry ♓ 16:34, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

You won't find it in the game. I believe it was in an interview, though. --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 16:45, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

At least in the BBS Ultimania interviews the Star Shard is never mentioned. I think it's just widely assumed that both materials are the same. In the Ansem Reports 7 and 9 its explained that when a world's barrier is broken, it rains down like shooting stars and can be used to build the gummi vessels. The world barriers weren't broken before the events of KH but they were still gummi blocks in KHII, so maybe there is a place where such things can come from. Or a wizard did it.--ShardofTruth 17:05, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Question about the world listed

I have a question why some worlds are listed to appear in a game and some not: e.g. Destiny Islands is listed as a world in KH2 which is a correct, but Castle Oblivion isn't, which also appears in the game. Could somebody explain to me why this is the case or is this a msitake? --User:Bas2804 20:18, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

When did Castle Oblivion appear in KHII? Was that during a flashback?--NinjaSheik 18:52, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

During the opening video --User:Bas2804 20:18, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Then it doesn't count. The lists of worlds are those that actually appear in the games. The opening intro does not count.--NinjaSheik 18:59, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

It appears in a cutscene that is a flashback during the restoration of Sora's memories, I think. Erry ♓ 19:01, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Then scenes from secret videos probably don't count as well? Like Ventus' scene in 3D? And neither do the flashbacks from KH2 (like Traverse Town)? And what about Neverland in coded? 21:04, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Neverland never appeared in Coded, except for an earlier release trailer for the game. The idea was scratched before the game was released. Obviously from the page, Traverse Town does not count as a visited world in the KHII, well, because Sora and co. never went to that world.--NinjaSheik 19:30, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

It appeared in a cutscene. Erry ♓ 19:33, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

In a flashback? Hmm... For as long as I've been, I don't think the wiki ever counted worlds that appears in flashbacks as worlds that are listed in the game. Even though a world might appear in a flashback, it technically doesn't really count as a appearance, since Sora and the others never actually went to that world.--NinjaSheik 19:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh, all right. Thanks for clarifying the rules! --User:Bas2804 21:38, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Sure, no problem.--NinjaSheik 19:51, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

If it appears as part of the story of the game, then it counts, whether it is flashback or gameplay. Opening videos and the secret movies for KH, KHFM, KHII, and KHIIFM are not in-canon and so do not count."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 06:05, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Dream Eaters

Technically, all previous allies are dimension-exclusive, too.192.249.47.177 13:30, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

It's just a small thumbnail, let it go. Erry ♓ 15:40, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

I was actually going to make that point as well... maggosh 17:42, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Sea of Outer Space <> Lanes Between and needed facts about Sleeping Worlds

ShardofTruth Once you believe, truth and lie are quite the same thing. — 21:56, 10 July 2012 (UTC) The Lanes Between is not the space around the worlds that is traveled in KH, KHII and KHBBS, that's called Sea of Outer Space (異空の海). The Lanes Between are indeed a series of "roads" and they (that is the important part) can be locked and unlocked apparently, at least Master Eraqus could do it. That's why I think this section should be moved to "Methods of travel". As for the Sleeping Worlds I'm unsure if Traverse Town and The World That Never Was loose their status as "Realm Between worlds" just because they are sleeping, as Nomura stated in this interview, these worlds follow different rules (called plot devices in my book). On top of that The World That Never Was was never a real Sleeping World (no pun intended), which was made clear in this interview.

maggosh The steel is forged... — "Souls as far as the eye can see..." "If you want light to rule over all, then you must rid the world of everything else." That is true...the Traverse Town here was created from Rhyme's dreams, and TWTNW that Sora and Riku primarily go through is the false dream version.

Because it fits here too: The Kingdom Hearts term list of the Japanese wiki is quite helpful on all these topics. --ShardofTruth 18:00, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

In regards to Traverse Town and TWTNW, all I really want clarified is:

• Does (a) Traverse Town exist within the Realm Between at the end of KH3D?
• Does (a) The World That Never Was within the Realm Between at the end of KH3D?
• Does (a) Traverse Town exist within the Sleeping Worlds at the end of KH3D?
• Does (a) The World That Never Was exist within the Sleeping Worlds at the end of KH3D?

If there's two versions of each world, that's peaches, I just haven't played the game and so I'm not sure what the situation is.

Also:

• "異空" (Isora) is not "outer space", which would be Uchuukuukan. The only precedented translation I can find for Isora is "the other sky", so perhaps "Sea of the Skies". Lanes Between would be "Roads of the Skies", Corridors of Darkness would be "Roads of Darkness".
• I'm pretty sure the Realm of nothingness is established as a euphamism for the Realm of Darkness. Everything we've heard said about it applies to things we know happened there, unless I'm missing something.
• 星の大海 should be "Ocean of Stars", or "Star Ocean". The "Taikai" implies that it is bigger than a "Kai" (sea).
• "精神世界" has been translated elsewhere as "Soul World", and based on it not being described as one of the fundamental realms, I think it should remain as such, using the alternate "World" translation used by the Sleeping Worlds and Worlds in general. Really, I think the Dive to the Heart is supposed to be the human equivalent of 100 Acre Wood; we certainly see a lot of parallels between the scenes. Then again, I might be missing something.192.249.47.177 21:49, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

ShardofTruth Once you believe, truth and lie are quite the same thing. — 23:54, 12 July 2012 (UTC) Thanks Kryten, I'll change the translation to your suggestions. Realm of nothingness as a euphamism makes a lot of sense, even if we have the "World of Nothingness" in KHII, but again this could be something completely different. Dive to the Heart seems to have more connections to the Sleeping Worlds than to the Realm of Light (where it is sorted in at the moment) and I think your 100 Acre Wood comparison is spot on. About Traverse Town and TWTNW, that are all good questions and I can't answer them completely, but here are some facts: KH3D Ultimania:"In the first place, the worlds in the rift between darkness and light have different rules than other worlds." KH3D Ultimania:"The Mysterious Tower isn’t always standing in a fixed place." KHBBS Ultimania:"Mysterious Tower is a loophole world in the first place, so it comes under slightly different rules than the ones that connect the other worlds." KH3D Ultimania:"Also, ever since Organisation XIII was defeated in KH2, the The World That Never Was' existence as a world has become uncertain." Famitsu Weekly:"I want to ask more about The World That Never Was. Is that world a part of reality? Or is also a world of sleep? Nomura: When that world’s logo appears, it indicates the boundary between the dream and reality. When Sora arrives, it’s reality and then goes into a world of sleep. Riku arrives in the sleeping world, and as you progress and the world logo appears, that’s when it becomes reality. KHBBS Ultimania:"Traverse Town too reforms its shape every time, which is why the version that appears in this title is clearly different than the version in KH." Japanese KH3D website:"You are connected through dreams to the Sleeping Worlds. And if you open the "Keyhole of sleep" in that world... The world will be released.." Englisch KH3D website:"As there are seven pure lights, there are seven "Sleeping Keyholes." Unlocking these will both grant you new powers and free the worlds from their wakelessness." I start with the case of Traverse Town and how I understood the story: Joshua is the same Joshua from TWEWY, all other characters are created from his memories (or their memories, its really confusing), because they "lost their existences" (or something like that). So basically he goes to the Sleeping Worlds with Rhyme's dreams as his portal. Inside the Sleeping Worlds the memory fragments re-created the other TWEWY characters and Traverse Town on top, because Traverse Town is the place where people end up if they have no more place to go. There is no real explanation for the sleeping version of The World That Never Was, maybe it has becoming instable and is slowly submerging in the Sleeping Worlds or something like that or its made of Sora's dreams, anything is possible at this point, the same goes for the Destiny Islands from the game's beginning. Conclusion: Every world that has it's "Sleeping Keyhole" unlocked is revived, so if Traverse Town wasn't fully restored it will be revived, probably to it's state before the Heartless invasion, making it a Realm Between world again, the same should be true for The World That Never Was, even if this world was never destroyed. Or maybe not, speculation everywhere.

So, hey. If Joshua is explicitly the TWEWY Joshua, and it isn't just allusions (like with Auron)...is TWEWY now in our scope? 'cause I would be totally down for that."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 02:54, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

I thought that was a given when Nomura said Shibuya is a real world. maggosh 03:03, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Soooo....are we going to talk to TWEWY wiki about a merge, then? How do we want to go about this?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 03:13, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Daybreak Town

Is there any reason this isn't on the page, or have we just nto gotten around to it yet?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 18:22, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

We really just haven't gotten to it. Work on the χ front has been slow because few (like, really only Shard) know how the game is played, so we don't know how to best document it. It's getting there. Where would Daybreak Town go? KeybladeSpyMaster 18:29, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

The many translations of the space between the worlds

With the English translation of the Kingdom Heart Novel bringing another term on the table I thought it would be best to list the previous translations here. The thing is that there are only two Japanese terms for this space.
First there is 星の大海:

KH - Cid: Interspace ain't no playground./星の大海をなめるんじゃえぞ! (transcribed from here)

KHBBSFM - Monstro journal entry: A whale monster that lives in the star ocean./星の大海を住みかにしている巨大なクジラの怪物。

Then there is 異空の海:

KHFM - Ansem Report #11: I shall set her free and observe./異空の海に送り出してみよう。 (This is why the NA translation of the HD 1.5 ReMIX sucks more than usual by the way).

KH Novel - Ansem Report #11: I have chosen a particular girl to send off into the Other Sky and observe./異空の海に送り出してみよう。(At least the translator here put more work into it).

DDD - Sora: After this, Pinocchio and Jiminy's world gets dragged into darkness, and they end up cast into the sea between worlds, along with Monstro./このあと この世界は嵐にのまれてピノキオたちはモンストロといっしょに異空の海に投げ出されて― (transcribed from here)

Unofficial Director's Secret Report XIII translations - Sea of (other) Skies (thewertle), Ocean Between (Goldpanner, also used in Xehanort's Report II)

I'm not sure how we should handle this situation but we should probably use the terms that are closest to the actual meaning and put the rest in a reference or rewrite the intro paragraph completely. Any other ideas?--ShardofTruth 21:36, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Give the evidence you posted, it's clear to say there is no "clear name" at all to refer to the term. I'm at lost to do, too, but I'd like to put in one thing: If it's evident that the term has no clear name that it goes by, then I think the other translations should be mentioned somewhere to reference that fact.--NinjaSheik 23:05, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I believe KHBBSFM and DDD would be the most recent uses for each term, so it would make sense to list under "star ocean", and say "The star ocean, also known as the sea between worlds, etc.", with a ref note covering everything else. We need to specify where each term comes from, though."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 05:19, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

So something like this?

The vast space between the worlds is known as the star ocean (星の大海, Hoshi no Taikai) (ref1) also translated as interspace (ref2) or sea between worlds (異空の海, Isora no Umi, lit. "sea of other skies") (ref3) also translated as Other Sky (ref4).

I'm not sure about the capitalization of these names at all. The connection to the Lanes between (lit. "Corridors of the Sky", which are somewhat diametrically opposed to the "Corridors of Darkness") is definitely lost in most translations.--ShardofTruth 06:25, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Does anyone have the Japanese text for Xehanort's Report II, where it uses the term "Ocean Between"? --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 14:42, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

I think in this case it's more a description than an actual term, but good to know where Goldpanner's translation comes from. You can find all original Japanese reports here. ShardofTruth 16:46, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Xehanort's Report II uses the phrase great Ocean Between (異空と呼ばれる宇宙空間のような海, lit. "The Outer Space-like Sea which is called another dimension"). Probably relevant is that "another dimension" can literally be translated as "Other Sky", which is likely where the novel got it. The normal "dimension" bit doesn't seem as critical here, so I'd be cool with using the novel's "sky" translation as precedent.

So, we have in the English material an explicit Term, the "Ocean Between". It doesn't really mate to a Term in the Japanese material, however, unless we want to consider that partial sentence its mate. Assuming we do not do that, I would write it as something like this (correct my refs as appropriate):

The Ocean Between, also known as the "star ocean/interspace" (星の大海, Hoshi no Taikai) and "sea between worlds/other sky" (異空の海, Ikuikan no Umi, lit. "Sea of Other Skies"), is a vast space between the worlds.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by KrytenKoro (talk • contribs)

Kryten, you forgot to sign. Fixed the link for Prankster's Paradise.--NinjaSheik 03:15, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Great work, it's even easier to add new translations to this sentence when we inevitably get them with Kingdom Hearts 3;-) ShardofTruth 05:55, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Things that I think should be changed

First is why does the 100 Acre Wood have the icon from KH1? Why wouldn't it have the icon from KH2?
Next is about Simulated Twilight Town. Space Paranoids is considered it's own world and it's a data-copy of The Grid. Simulated Twilight Town is a data-copy of Twilight Town, so why isn't it considered it's own world as well?
Next is about the Sleeping Worlds. La Cite des Cloches, Prankster's Paradise, The Grid, Country of the Musketeers, and Symphony of Sorcery are no longer in the Realm of Sleep. They have been restored to the Realm of Light, so I don't think that they should be in the Sleeping Worlds section. The worlds that have previously been in the Realm of Darkness are not in the Realm of Darkness section, so why should the wolds that have previously been in the Realm of Sleep be in the Sleeping Worlds section? Doesn't make any sense to me at all.
Also, Traverse Town is still in the Realm of Sleep. It is not currently in the Realm Between where it belongs. It was confirmed to still be in the Realm of Sleep in a DDD secret ending. In that secret ending, Sora goes back to Traverse Town and meets up with all of his Dream Eaters. It seems to be that Traverse Town has become a home to all of his Dream Eaters and it seems like they will be living there for the foreseeable future. Dream Eaters cannot exist outside of the Realm of Sleep, so this confirms Traverse Town to still be in the Realm of Sleep. Since this is the case, then I think that Traverse Town should be the only world in the Sleeping Worlds section and it should not be in the Realm Between Section.
Could someone please explain to me why these things have been changed? --Elfdemon (talk) 23:40, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Can't answer your first question. But the Simulated Twilight Town is a near exact copy of the real Twilight Town, Space Paranoids and The Grid are clearly very different from each other.
Traverse Town, like all the worlds in the Realm Between, have special properties. Like has been stated many times, Traverse Town "appears when someone out there is in need of shelter", so it's possible that its in both the Realm Between and the Realm of Sleep.
When was it ever stated that Dream Eaters can't exist outside the Realm of Sleep? All I remember being stated was that Heartless and Nobodies can't enter the Realm of Sleep and that as such the Dream Eaters function as a replacement for them there, I don't recall it being said that Dream Eaters can't leave. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 03:13, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

• The 100 Acre Wood image can be changed back, I guess.
• Simulated Twilight Town is never indicated to be its own world. It doesn't have a Keyhole, and is not called its own world.
• If you can provide a source that they have been definitively restored to the Realm of Light, we can modify the page accordingly. No such source was provided. No worlds are listed as having previously been in the Realm of Darkness because we've had no indication that things in the Realm of Darkness can still be considered worlds.
• A portion of Traverse Town is confirmed to still be in the Realm of Sleep, just like a portion of Mysterious Tower was Symphony of Sorcery. There's been no indication that the entirety of Traverse Town is still submerged, unless you can provide a source otherwise.
• Joshua states that Dream Eaters are the forms that dreams take in the Sleeping Worlds, but Riku states that him still having his Dream Eater nature is proof that he is still linked to Sora's continuing dreams, even though he's in the real world. Daybreak Town could be a world in the realm of light, provided that the Chirithys are brought out of someone who's kept in slumber...which seems kind of Machiavellian. Without an explicit statement for which realm Daybreak Town is in (or at least, we're pointed to where they're keeping all the comatose bodies used to sustain the Chirithys), it can be considered unclear."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 03:35, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Okay, thank you for the responses.
As for the Sleeping Worlds and the Realm of Light, wasn't the whole point of Sora and Riku's Mark of Mastery exam to return the Sleeping Worlds to the Realm of Light by sealing the Keyholes? I might be mistaken, it's been a while since I last played DDD.
As for Traverse Town, yeah you're right, I don't think it ever stated anywhere in the game that Dream Eaters can't live outside of the Realm of Sleep. Since Traverse Town is a place where people go when their worlds fall into darkness or disappear somehow, Sora's Dream Eaters most likely ended up there because the Sleeping Worlds that they lived in disappeared and went back to the Realm of Light. It would be interesting if we visit Traverse Town in KH3 to see Sora's Dream Eaters roaming around and maybe even join your party for that world.
And as for the worlds in the Realm of Darkness, worlds do remain intact worlds as we've seen during the BBS secret ending when we see Castle of Dreams, but that was sort of a teaser and might not have been canon. We'll probably have to wait for 0.2 to come out to see if Castle of Dreams still remained as a "world" when in the Realm of Darkness.
Thanks again for the responses. --Elfdemon (talk) 04:49, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

No, that's not what "intact" means. Castle of Dreams the world is not shown to be a world in the Realm of Darkness -- the castle itself is shown to be merged with the rest of the world that Aqua is in, like how things were done at End of the World. What is meant by intact is that it's still a little planetoid floating around that we could list -- it would have a world map and everything. The Sleeping Worlds had a world map despite not appearing in the "Other Sky", so it makes sense to list them as discrete entities, but as far as we know for the Realm of Darkness, it just mashes up all the components of fallen worlds into one combined landscape."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 16:13, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Okay, but what about the Sleeping Worlds situation? Wasn't the whole point of Sora and Riku's Mark of Mastery exam to return the Sleeping Worlds to the Realm of Light by sealing the Keyholes? --Elfdemon (talk) 20:44, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

It's supposed to "free them from their wakelessness", yes, but we don't have confirmation that that's happened yet that I know of. Hopefully KH3 will shed some light on whether those worlds have finally returned to the Realm of Light."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 21:34, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Okay. --Elfdemon (talk) 21:43, 1 February 2016 (UTC)