Forum:Talk Sprites for Deletion

Forums: Index > The World that Never was > Talk Sprites for Deletion

KeybladeSpyMaster - I do it for my family, my home, my friends! I do it for her! TALK - Welcome to Spy Force One. - 09:03 PM Sat, January 4, 2014 MST Ok, we started this discussion on the Pages for Deletion page. The original discussion is here, before I give my response.

From the Pages for Deletion page:

Talk sprites

A lot of talk sprites from Days are marked for deletion. However, a lot of them are used for templates, which can cause problems if they were all deleted. I think those deletion tags should be removed. For example, the sad sprite of Mickey is on the upcoming template. I really don't think these pages should be deleted. SeanWheeler (talk) 17:20, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but I think you're okay to remove the deletion tag on those. KeybladeSpyMaster 17:28, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

First and foremost, unless a staff member says otherwise, assume everything in the deletion category is meant for deletion. You were right to bring the discussion up on here, instead of starting a mass removing spree. Anyways...No, do not remove the deletion tag on the Days images. Those images have to be uploaded off the Wiki and linked back to whatever templates/pages they were on. The Days images are not "real" images. Check out Spriter's Resource They are user edited images created by Xiggie/DoorToNothing to be used by users for talk templates and the like. Under our old image policy such images were allowed. However, with our new policy such images should be deleted. I've been working on uploading the images in the deletion category to my personal Photobucket account for a while now. It's taking more time than it probably should, but I promise you they will be taken care of properly.--Xion4ever 17:55, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

So, they weren't just cropped from the game? They were completely fanmade from scratch? I find that hard to believe. But if those were fanmade, can someone use a capture card to replace them? SeanWheeler (talk) 18:44, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

That sounds a little extreme, to require every user-edited image that is on the wiki to be uploaded off-wiki, especially when the images were talking about aren't just any images being used on just any user's talk bubbles, but they're images that (I assume) the administrators themselves chose to be used on these administrative templates. They serve a greater purpose than the passive pleasure of a few users, they actually have a purpose on the wiki, an important one at that. I think that there should be an exception for the images the administration has deemed to have an actual use on the wiki. I mean, otherwise, it sounds like we would have to remove every user-edited image on the wiki, among which include approx. 50 walkthrough images (38 of which I uploaded last week myself), the little symbols, including the one that symbolizes your status as administration (pretty sure SE never released a shiny keyblade logo), even the wiki logo itself (I know they didn't create a logo for us). KeybladeSpyMaster 02:44, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

The images were taken from the originals which can be found Category:Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days Sprite images. The images were not only flipped, but some where filled in from where the red banner used to be. As ridiculous as it sounds, if you check the older deletion logs, my personal Photobucket account, my edit count/edits you'll see exactly how many user images have been taken care of. There used to be over three pages in the Articles for Deletion category- meaning between the 401-600 image range. Now there are only 279. Heck, even check out Ultima's userpage. At least seventy five percent of the 219 deletions came from user images. It's a long process, but it's getting there.
Some "user" images have been deemed okay to remain on the site, such as the staff template and Wiki logo, as you mentioned. As for the Walkthrough images, to my knowledge internal linking is not possible if using links from Photobucket/Imageshack. This could prove problematic to the walkthrough articles since we've apparently deemed that to be the way the articles should look.
As for images being used on administrative templates/elsewhere: see the userboxes. These images used to be held on Wiki, too. Now they're linked from Photobucket.
To be quite honest, I've waited this long to delete the Days images exactly for this reason. From what I've seen on here from other users/staff, those images should be hosted elsewhere and deleted. That is what I believe, too. Perhaps we should open a forum on this...--Xion4ever 03:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

I'll do that (it is actually starting to become somewhat long....)KeybladeSpyMaster 04:03, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

KeybladeSpyMaster - I do it for my family, my home, my friends! I do it for her! TALK - Welcome to Spy Force One. - MST I do not question your ability to delete and upload images off the wiki. I'm just suggesting that it could be easier to just leave these images here. I understand why you would want to remove them, I just thought that since they do not benefit one person's experience but rather the entire Wiki's function, and it serves a purpose in the actual editing process, it would be better to leave them on the wiki, or replace them with images that aren't unofficial.

Final Chain - "Good tidings friends..." TALK - "...and a happy new year!" - Chainoffire (talk) 04:52, 5 January 2014 (UTC) Here's my thoughts on the matter: 1. If they do end up getting deleted, we at least put up a wiki-wide warning, to give people enough time to move/replace the images they want. So that and so it's not like: "Surprise! Happy 2014! Your images were deleted!" I know that the "No fan-made images" policy has been in place for a while now, but there is that little gray area of what a "fan-made" is. For example, the sprite used on this very talk bubble is hosted in Xemnas' gallery. If I were a new user to the wiki, and see the policy we have in place, I would think that this was an official image because: a. It's hosted on the wiki before I even got here, b. It's used in a gallery, c. Lots of other users already use the image, d. I'm not so familiar with the KH series that I don't notice a tiny red bar at the bottom of the sprite, thus, it must be an official image! This warning wouldn't have to be up for very long, 2 weeks minimum. But this way users aren't surprised and angry about the deletion. 2. As KeybladeSpyMaster said above, we replace all of the non-official images with the corresponding official ones. There's only 171-ish images that need to be replaced, so if many hands make light work, this should be done in a jiffy or two. The only real problems I see with this are the fact that we'd be editing other user's personal user pages, and the fact that they'd look different (flipped and with a red bar) which may not be to some user's liking.

Apparently it was misunderstood what I meant by referencing all the deletions. The point of those are to prove that regardless of the royal pain it is, we can do it. We've done it before and we can do it again. Wanting to leave them on here in fear of the amount of work/how lame it would be is an easy/lazy way out. If we could get a group of users to help off-load these images off the Wiki then link them back into the appropriate templates/user pages/articles/etc., these images would be taken care of in no time at all. (<- Thought #1) I think it is safe to say this whole mess is my fault. I've been working on the Articles for Deletion category for a long time- far too long, in fact. Apologizing now wouldn't solve or prove anything. The point of this forum is, as I understand it, this: Do we want the fan-edited Days images on the Wiki, or offloaded to Photobucket and linked back? There has been a mini discussion about this on the IRC. Log can be found: here. Allow me to restate that this is focused solely on the Days images, not other images found in the Category:Articles for Deletion. Personally, I am against leaving the images on the Wiki. The suggestion to replace them with images that are official would work for any articles (mainspace, that is). That would be a good move. However, for users [userpages, user templates, etc.] it doesn't feel right or fair. To me, that seems like doing it half-way, which is a joke. I'm not going to lie, moving these images is not fun and is probably one of the suckiest form of getting edits. But, it would be worth it. Not only would we finally get the deletion category half cleaned, but we'd finally prove ourselves on following the most recent image policy we agreed upon. There are several ways we can go about this, but to shorten this already long eye-sore text I will only mention one...Proposal 1: (Under the belief that the images should be held off-Wiki, linked back on the Wiki, and then deleted) Get a group of users to take "so-and-so" characters and upload onto a Photobucket account. The Wiki has one, but I can't remember who all had the log-in information. If desired we could perhaps create a separate Photobucket account solely for these images. That way anyone on here could log in, upload the images, and then get off. Once the images were all accounted for, a staff member could go in and change the password so no one could "vandalize" the account. Any images that-for whatever reason- needed to be uploaded later to that account could be done so by a staff member. Each user who decided to help out would be charged with not only uploading the character(s) images to Photobucket, but would also be in charge of: switching any/all articles/userspace/ANYTHING the image links to; posting the now-"linkless"/"ready-to-delete" image names on the Deletion page. Once the user had completed the above three tasks an admin would re-check to make sure the image has indeed been purged from the Wikispace, and then delete the fan image from existence. Yay great purging. On a side note: Wonder if we could use the bot to help tackle the more popular images like File:DaysRoxas.png? Chainoffire brings forth the next important point: notification and re-education. (Notification) Once this issue has ultimately been discussed and agreed upon I do see one more a final notification. On here, the Facebook page, Twitter- everywhere. If we're going to do this we need to let everyone know that while the images are set to be deleted, they will be handled regardless- whether the user takes action or not. The notification is mere formality on saying "Move it or lose it, jack." Though people have had plenty of time- years!- to do so, I can agree with this. (Re-education) I see this mainly as a problem for new editors. By removing the problems Chainoffire mentioned above, this will slowly work itself out. If a user should post such an image we can always remind them of the new image policy/this decision. Also, changing the new users guide information and any other help pages would work, too. Another idea is to create a page comprised of these fan-made Days images. Think: User:Troisnyxetienne/Talk Template Archive. The images could be seen as well as their respective off-Wiki links. This way no one has to "search" for the images. Xion4ever Promise...

KeybladeSpyMaster - Wait, there's more than one Xehanort? TALK - I don't understand! Doesn't that make them Oraganization XXVI? - 11:16 PM Sat, January 4, 2014 MST WHOA! Wait a minute! This whole time, I understood SeanWheeler's post as "What do we do about these Days images that are up for deletion, but at the same time are used for administrative templates?". I mean, if we took down every fan-edited image and replaced it with official images, THAT would be extreme. My argument wasn't for ALL the images from Days, just the ones being used throughout the Wiki, like the one SeanWheeler pointed out that was being used on the template for upcoming games. When I said replace the images with offical ones, I meant THOSE images, not all images. I mean, that's insane (and an eternal work). That's also what I meant by not removing the images. I meant those that, like the logo, admin images, and forum headers, serve a purpose on the wiki (in this case, they form part of wiki templates. By all means, upload off-wiki the Days images and link them back here. I'm wiling to help (though I should warn, I don't have constant access to a computer). I'm for what Xion4Ever says here, my proposal is to spare the ones I mentioned, those with a purpose (I hope I don't sound like Xemans, that would be wierd).

ShardofTruth Once you believe, truth and lie are quite the same thing. — 15:48, 5 January 2014 (UTC) I think this all started when the number of fan-edited talk sprites that were uploaded here became too damn high. That was when the no fanart rule was created which was the easiest one to enforce. Because some of them are official and others are still widely in use, replacing them takes a lot of time and causes some other problems (for example editing other user's personal space, necroposting in years old forums posts) while on the other hand just deleting them makes our Special:WantedFiles even more useless that it is now. Anyway I have a slightly different opinion on this matter. Basically I think talk sprites are part of the games and therefore can have a place here as long as they are used, be it in the characters gallery, a user's talk template or other places. They can even be mirrored (because that happens in the games too) and cropped (because we do this here all the time) but shouldn't be duplicates or altered (to show a different expression than the official ones for example), these images should still be uploaded elsewhere. From my point of view all talk sprites that are official should be renamed to fit our file naming policy and can stay here (like it's done for some CoM talk sprites already), the rest should be deleted and/or moved elsewhere. I think the biggest obstacle in solving the issue are the so-called template archives from inactive users, namely Xiggie and Troisnyxetienne, where hundreds of these images are linked, now often even with dead links. I think it would be wise if we comment these pages out, deactivate them so to speak, until their creators become interested in them again, that would reduce the workload massively.