Game talk:Young Xehanort

Name?

How do we know that this is the name of this character? --BreaktheIce16 (talk) 10:17, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Chitalian8 Say... — Only by allowing strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves. Life's little crossroads are often as simple as the pull of a trigger. — 23:44, June 22, 2010 (UTC) I don't think that we do, someone just jumped the gun and put a name that they thought was suitable there.

Oh, for God's sake. Seriously? I mean, you guys haven't heard? I remember reading in an interview that Tetsuya Nourma confirmed that this unknown is Xemnas before he became Xemnas. It's Xehanort. I do remember reading it, but I don't remember how to find it. Maybe in KHInsider or Kingdom Hearts Ultimania.

Either way, this just jumping the gun too fast.--NinjaSheik 01:29, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Uhhhh....Are you on crack or something? Normura NEVER said ANYTHING about the identity of this character in ANY sort of interview. --BreaktheIce16 (talk) 21:52, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

if you're talking about me when i had said "like xemnas" i didn't say anything about him being xemnasKhruler 20:02, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

ShadowXemnas - Nothingness...is...ETERNAL!!! TALK - Turn to Darkness! Well, whatever this new foe will be named, I'm going to call him "Xehanort's Promise". As it is not a Remnant or an Absent Silhouette, but something before the actual being, it seems fair to list it as a foreshadowing enemy (Read: Enemy that tells of the future in subtle hints), and since Xehanort's desire is to control Kingdom Hearts, and Xemnas is a part of that, this being is a "Promise" that he will do whatever it takes to do so. Thus, I shall call him Xehanort's Promise until the official name is revealed (and if it remains Unknown, I'll just stick with X.P.). What do you guys think of it?

WarMonger89 Too bright a shine shows eyes of envy. — 05:42, July 16, 2010 (UTC) i think it's a really good title. i wonder if that's what it's really called...

Naruto195 —What the hell did you do Angeal!? TALK - "Is that? Is that your idea of honor?." — Naruto195 07:35, July 16, 2010 (UTC) Xehanort's Promise? What? This isn't the page to talka bout what ever name YOU want to give him,this is the offical page. His name is Unknown until the game comes out. Not meaning to sound rude by the way.

ShadowXemnas - Nothingness...is...ETERNAL!!! TALK - Turn to Darkness! Don't worry, you're not being rude, and I understand where you're coming from. When I said I would call him Xehanort's Promise, I meant as a reference name, like I call Ansem, Seeker of Darkness "Ansem the Dark" in standard conversation. I didn't say that I would change the page name or something crazy like that, since it would be unnecessary and likely net me a warning. So any fears you may have can be assuaged. At this moment in time this character is the new Unknown, but I will refer to him as Xehanort's Promise when mentioning him. Makes it less confusing, considering that Xemnas is called Unknown in KHFM. Aside from that, what do you think of the name, unofficial it may be?

i'm got 35% sure that unknown is xehanort from KH3,the unknown know to rewind time,that means he is coming from the future, maybe he come back to here to try player skill ,just like KH1FM xemnas did to sora.

It was me! :O

I started the page because no one else had before. Pretty much everyone at the KHI community was calling him that, so I figured why not. I did it just so we actually had a page started for the character, and could edit it as the news and videos and whatnot came out.

Why not just, you know, wait until there's actual information? We have, what, three more months now?Glorious CHAOS! 06:01, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

from looking through all model files i found this:

this is one of the models where my model exporter produces only garbage uv data, but from the texture, it is xehanort:

his filename is h04di -> the 4th high poly model from Destiny Island.

here the confirmed pictures: looks like Xemnas from KH1FM, but he can't exist at that time, so Xehanort has the highest chance.

Xehanort appears in a black cloak near the beginning of the game, and the texture seems to resemble the "young master xehanort" as well. It's probably just that, not the new boss.Glorious CHAOS! 19:41, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

You can get a keyblade

it said so in the interview just look at http://www.khinsider.com/

....and this is why you shouldn't rely on incompetent translators. The interview says that you get VANITAS's Keyblade after you beat VANITAS's Sentiment.Glorious CHAOS! 09:56, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

WingBlade - Whatever it takes. Anything to save Terra and Aqua. TALK - {{{time}}} Actually, it's Vanitas's Sentiment's Keyblade not Vanitas's Keyblade. Not really sure but, Nomura said "In addition, there were complaints about the reward for defeating Vanitas' Sentiment, so you will now receive his Keyblade as a prize." "His Keyblade" may mean either one!

Again, don't rely on machine translators. The interview point-blank says "Vanitas's Keyblade".Glorious CHAOS! 10:21, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

His Weapons

hey everyone, Ixbran here

after they released the new trailer for the english version of BbS, i took some screen shots and from them was able to make a picture of the bosses weapons using photoshop.

Uknowns Weapons

i am willing to donate it to Kingdom Hearts wiki, till we can get ahold of offical art of them.

i hope this helps Ixbran 22:22, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Our policy is to not use fanart, but the effort is much appreciated.LapisLazuliScarab22:24, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, i understand. just trying to help since the page feels very empty with no pictures there. Ixbran 00:38, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Heh, blue lightsabers. What is this, the 'good' Xehanort? Is the reason his lightsabers are blue instead of red because he's the good guy at that moment? Makes you wonder...--Pkthis 04:38, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

has anyone else noticed that he holds his weapon in a reverse where as Xemnas wields his similar weapons as extentions of his hands

Rough translation (because the khinsider post was riddled with error)

KHBbS: Blitz PS, Mr. Nomura interview, and North America version radio actor and additional element, etc.

- Blitz PS Vol.474 (It is an article on 6/25 sales).

― The sale of North America version "KHBbS" seems to be near.

Mr. Nomura: It is September 7. There is variously additional element, too and it was restlessly changeable. The voice of [erakuu;su] is competing of the dream of "Star Wars" and "Star Trek" because Leonard Nimoy (Leonard Nimoy) took charge of the voice of mark Hamill (Mark Hamill) and [zeano-to]. The enemy character of the mystery is added. It is not possible to win easily probably because it frightens and it is strong. Opinions such as "I did not want to meet twice" and "It was possible to win 20 times at last once" had come out from [debakka-].

― Is it stronger than the thought of [vanitasu]?

Mr. Nomura: There are some people who felt that the thought of [vanitasu] is stronger, and is a person who feels that a new character doesn't fight overwhelmingly easily though the questionnaire was taken. However, a new character is obviously stronger for the performance etc. of the technique. Bang Bang ..already enormous technique.. is used. It is up to a type like the stay thought of "KH2FM+" as for either of this new characters while the following movement etc. were a legible comparatively other parties in the thought of [vanitasu]. Next, what attack you do is not understood, and there is disagreeable.

― Will the new character be still a person in close relation to the story?

Mr. Nomura: I do not think that the true colors is understood at all at "KHBbS" though it becomes so. The existence is made character covered with the mysteries like being so the stay thought now.

― Other main change points?

Mr. Nomura: Because the Mega flare was too brutal oppositely though there was an addition in all places really in detail, the weakening does. The key braid of [vanitasu] can be obtained because there were a lot of voices of dissatisfaction ..[gohoubi] when the thought of [vanitasu] is knocked down... ..novel one.. some as the play element. add such a correctionProbably the tradition of the "KH" series around here.

― Is there a new secret movie?

Mr. Nomura: To our regret, it is not. There was no added time there. The secret movie is preparatory in "KH Re:Coded" though it is what when saying the taking the place. Please look forward because it is a content that not is mobile. The respect was considered this time because there was a lot of hows for being to see the secret movie at "KH 358/2 Days".

Twice!?

in the article, it says that the unknown is fought twice. Is there any proof that it is fought twice?Keyblade0 01:13, July 20, 2010 (UTC)Keyblade0

Yes: Nomura said so.Glorious CHAOS! 03:05, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Link

So was there a reason why the link to this page was removed from the kh bbs section thing that expands at the bottom???--Chaosxterra09 23:35, September 1, 2010 (UTC)Chaosxterra09

Mysterious Figure

The official name given to the character is the Mysterious Figure. He drops a keyblade after his defeat named "No Name."

http://forums.khinsider.com/spoilers/153866-strategy-guide-info-spoilers-update-2-a.html

There are scans now to back up what I posted on KHInsider's forums. This article requires a name change. --BreaktheIce16 (talk) 20:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Can anybody verify what guidebook these scans are from? They're not worth crap as sources otherwise.LapisLazuliScarab03:27, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

So apparently the scans are from the BradyGames guide - the IMDB of guidebooks. Why is it so hard for people to wait for credible sources? It's less than a week to the release of the game.LapisLazuliScarab03:33, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Like I've said before, I'd be willing to go through the game once I have it to verify all of this. maggosh 03:34, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Again bringing up the IMDB analogy; by the same token I could have put James Earl Jones as the VA for Aqua and just said "I'll check it when the game comes out anyway".LapisLazuliScarab03:37, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

so all edits made in light of this information will have to be reverted?--ShadowsTwilight 03:43, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

That's my opinion, but so far I seem to be alone on this.LapisLazuliScarab03:47, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

WheelyRampage - Replay. TALK - Tournament decides. Well, I guess if the title gets changed, could someone maybe change all other instances of the Unknown to Mysterious Figure? And someone please change you fight him twice, that was a mistranslation. You can find a better one here: http://heartstation.org/?p=2295 Sorry, those things are just bugging me.

Land of Departure? (Warning: Spoilers)

So, do we have to keep a save file for each character BEFORE the Land of Departure gets destroyed? I mean, how else do we get there? 66.215.20.249 22:42, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

maggosh The steel is forged... — "Souls as far as the eye can see..." "If you want light to rule over all, then you must rid the world of everything else." Through a mix of game save files.

Excuse me? Not sure I really understand, so you just make sure to save right before the world gets destroyed? 66.215.20.249 04:09, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Like in ReCoM, beating the Vanitas's Lingering Spirit unlocks the Mysterious Figure for all save files, even ones you haven't beaten the Spirit on. However, since you can't visit Land of Departure after beating the Lingering Spirit, you have to go back to an earlier save file, or start a new game. There has been some rumor, though, that you can take your stats and inventory from the completed game with you, though I haven't seen any evidence on that yet.Glorious CHAOS! 15:54, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Somebody?

How do we know that the Mysterious Figure is a somebody? For all we know, it could be a nobody, heartless, unversed, or the smoke monster from lost. KKD

That's the thing; we don't know. Until we do, let's just keep it this way. --LegoAlchemist 00:30, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA So Somebody has officially become the Misc. category

Kana + Romaji?

This boss is an English exclusive. So why would it have a Japanese name? I think that should be removed from the Lacking Template at the top. 66.215.20.249 01:32, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

There are no English exlusives for Kingdom Hearts, at least not for long. Just wait and see;-) ShardofTruth 08:03, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Yeaah, you're right. 66.215.20.249 17:23, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

ZexionFan321 - So it's the strength of his Heart that intrigues you...The heart chosen by the Keyblade. TALK - More pain for you means more fun for me! - 17:36, September 4, 2010 (UTC) He is an English exclusive just like Sephiroth, Kurt Zisa, and the Ice Titan in KH.

maggosh The steel is forged... — "Souls as far as the eye can see..." "If you want light to rule over all, then you must rid the world of everything else." You forget; those bosses became available in Final Mix, no longer making them English exclusive.

ZexionFan321 - So it's the strength of his Heart that intrigues you...The heart chosen by the Keyblade. TALK - More pain for you means more fun for me! - 17:41, September 4, 2010 (UTC) But I think Nomura said that their were no plans for a Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep Final Mix.

Chitalian8 Say... — Only by allowing strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves. Life's little crossroads are often as simple as the pull of a trigger. — 17:42, September 4, 2010 (UTC) That's what he said about KHII, and look what happened.

maggosh The steel is forged... — "Souls as far as the eye can see..." "If you want light to rule over all, then you must rid the world of everything else." That's what he said about Kingdom Hearts II, and we all know what happened after that. EDIT CONFLICT: Dammit Chitalian! D:

Chitalian8 Say... — Only by allowing strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves. Life's little crossroads are often as simple as the pull of a trigger. — 17:46, September 4, 2010 (UTC) My bad, sorry XD

ZexionFan321 - So it's the strength of his Heart that intrigues you...The heart chosen by the Keyblade. TALK - More pain for you means more fun for me! - 17:47, September 4, 2010 (UTC) Plus there have been remakes or Final Mixes of every KH game except for Days and BBS...for now.

But for now, there are no plans for a Final Mix, and therefore a Kana + Romaji is not needed. But like you said, there's always that possibility...

My opinion is that we wait until a Final Mix/International Edition is announced/released in Japan, and then add something about needing a Japanese name. But for now, it's unneeded. Tamroc7 18:10, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Lightning XIII - "We live to make the impossible possible!" TALK - "Worst Birthday ever..." Yeah, but then again a Final Mix appearing in America and PAL regions is unlikely because, since Nomura said that he'll only make Final Mixes outside of Japan as a trump card. Bascially the English releases of BBS is the closest thing to a Final Mix. :D Its about time we get something that the Japanese don't! XD

Amen to that! --66.215.20.249 01:18, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Birth By Sleep's Final Mix with him confirmed to be in it has been announced in Famitsu.The scan is here: So just wait until Winter, and you'll have his Japanese name.--58.96.52.3 09:55, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Abilities

Chaosxterra09 - Good, let's see what your made of TALK - 02:42, September 5, 2010 (UTC) So I'm watchin tha battle between the Mysterious Figure and Aqua on youtube and apparently he can knock off ur deck commands, as well as make clones of himself, and some other crazy stuff; it's got me wonderin why Nomura would put this guy in tha game and expect us to be able to beat him and where has this dude been throughout KH series? Takin a nap!?!

maggosh The steel is forged... — "Souls as far as the eye can see..." "If you want light to rule over all, then you must rid the world of everything else." Friend, it's called challenge.

It's a challenge, of course! Nomura wouldn't want the new boss to be a pushover, so he made it tough. Besides, getting that fancy new Keyblade will take some work.

As for where he's been, I think he's been watching, and waiting, for the right opportunity to strike at our heroes. Some of the best villains prefer to wait in the shadows and strike when the heroes are of guard. I suspect this fellow is doing the same. Tamroc7 02:47, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Chaosxterra09 - Good, let's see what your made of TALK - 02:54, September 5, 2010 (UTC) Challenge??? Ha! From what I see it's a one man massacre. I mean not that i wont try to fight him but uh....yeah...

Well he makes VLS looks easy, and he is NOT easy! i will fight him, and unlike the guy on Gamefaqs, i will beat him, fairly, and you shal get screen shots that i WILL take with my DSi! but he still lokks tough as hell, in summer, on the hottest ******* day of the year!(yes i censored myself.)--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 13:45, September 5, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman

The REAL trick is beating him when you're only halfway through the game. I wonder how long it'll take to level up WITHOUT advancing the story... --66.215.20.249 00:40, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

This may sound ridiculous but from what I've seen and heard, although defeating the lingering sentiment of Vanitas does unlock the Mysterious Figure battle in all files, it doesn't mean you're locked out from the battle on the file where you made that defeat. Apparently you can return to the Land of Departure in the English version at all times (Though it gets dark and cloudy post-darkness). Mind you I heard/saw this from someone who, well, pirated a copy early, but that's not important. - Flintlock Vitor 06:05, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

The guide explicitly says you have to reload an earlier save file, so...yeah.Glorious CHAOS! 12:31, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Hm, I'm curious now. Which guide is this? And what's the wording on it, exactly? I usually wouldn't persist, but when I've pretty much seen someone return there in action, I kinda have to question things. Plus guides have been wrong before. Flintlock Vitor 02:20, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

The Bradygames guide:

"Save the game after you defeat Vanitas's Lingering Spirit, and then load a saved file in which you have access to the Land of Departure."

Also, unless you've seen the guy sitting in front of you playing the game (and even then), it's likely that they were using hacks.Glorious CHAOS! 12:28, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

You know, now that I look back on this line, the guide isn't really incorrect. It just never says anything about when the Land of Departure is accessible. - Flintlock Vitor 21:40, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

So, Anyone notice how organization-y he is? He has Xemnas's blades, Zexions (and Larxenes absent silloueete) cloning,Axels fire, Luxords time stuff, His ball lasers kinda look like the dragoon ships snowflake lasers, that turning invisible at the beginning is like Unknown in KHFM, and to top it all of when he walks calmly in battle he looks just like saix.EternalIcecream.

Video

Chaosxterra09 - Good, let's see what your made of TALK - 02:54, September 5, 2010 (UTC) I found tha vid for him vs Aqua but i dont know how to incorporate it to tha article so here's tha link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miz47nwLTKg

Chaosxterra09 - Good, let's see what your made of TALK - 02:54, September 5, 2010 (UTC) I was in Wal-mart and saw the guide sry i couldn add a pic but my good phone broke Health=999, Status resistances=immune to everything, Physical, Thunder, Blizzard, Fire, and Dark=x1.0

A couple questions

What is the latest save point where the Land of Departure is still available? And if I beat him with say Terra, does No Name carry over to my other Terra file?--66.215.20.249 22:26, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

The Stratagy Guide Messed Up

The Stratagy guide said he slows down time for your character while he moves at normal speed. Anyone who has seen a battle with him or fought him can tell he actually rewinds time for BOTH him and your character for a few seconds. --Evnyofdeath 16:53, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Something REALLY important just dawned on me about this boss

Is says the requirements to fight this boss are to beat VLS then load a game file where you can go to the Land of Departure. It NEVER says you can't fight him on the same file you beat VLS as long as you can go to the Land of Departure on that file. In other words, On any scenario except the Last Episode. --Evnyofdeath 14:45, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Erry - Let me think about it. TALK - Scherzo Di Notte ~ {{{time}}} Evnyofdeath, you're right. I defeated VLS on the Final Episode with Aqua, loaded a saving with Terra, Ventus and Aqua BEFORE the final battle with Master Xehanort and Vanitas and went to LoD and was able to fight him.

Ah, thanks guys for that. Nice to see this cleared up. So every chapter but the final one huh? Guess I was wrong when I said all the time. More like all but the final I guess. - Flintlock Vitor 21:25, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, so is it possible to get to LoD AFTER fighting the final bosses on the file used to fight the final bosses? Or do we have to make a second file just before the final bosses? --66.215.20.249 22:42, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Well, TLoD is available to go to anytime after the point that corrosponds to Terra's fight with ME in any scenario. If you leave the KG you can go to TLoD anytime. --Evnyofdeath 17:50, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

But can we get there in the same file used to defeat the final bosses? 66.215.20.249 02:34, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

If you mean the Final Episode, the part you fight Xehanort as Aqua, then no, because you can't go to the Land of Departure in the Final Episode --Evnyofdeath 03:34, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Questions

Something tells me the Mysterious Figure is the villain behind the story, not Xehanort. Maybe he was used as well. I'm not sure, though.

--Charmed-Jay 13:01, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Idk, but I got the vibe its a future Sora. For one he has Sora-like mannerisms when he attacks and recovers from being attacked, along with his intro/ defeat. His intro/ fighting stance reminds me ALOT of Sora's Valor form, he uses an almost identical stance, along with the almost identical electricity pulsation around his hands. He also uses a very awkward/unpredictable fighting style, like Sora, has "overpowered moves" (also Sora), and also uses Sora's Valor finisher; Sonic End, which he makes an "X" slash. He also does a semi-invisible move and telepathically attacks you with his weapons, which Sora is capable of doing in Final form, aswell as in his normal state (not the invisible part), as he shows vs Roxas, when he steals his keyblades, and they telepathically attack along with Sora's normal strikes. Remember too, Sora grows more powerful from game to game, showing his growth in the light. So duel wielding, and the use of these types of attacks wouldnt surprise me. You could argue with me that "if it was Sora he'd use a keyblade." Well, using a keyblade would make it less mysterious/unknown. Besides, Sora has been shown to use other people's weapons, as when he steals Saix's Claymore; and in Final mix when you defeat an Org. member, you get to a recipe to make a replica of thier weapons. In addition, the keyblade you get from the Mysterious Figure, is very time-themed, so Sora could have traveled from the future. The Mysterious Figures moves wont/dont look 100% like Sora's due to this new combat system, which Sora has not been adapted to, so this could be a kind of Sora beta test. Just my theory, feel free to shoot me down =). -FatalMercy 03:30, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Canon?

Can someone explain to me how this is exactly a canon fight? The supposed article that states it is canon, from what ive read, makes no reference/ doesnt mention at all that this fight is canon. It just says "hes shrouded in mystery" that means we just dont know who or what it is at this point.FatalMercy 02:52, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Precisely. Why would Nomura tell us who he is and how the fight is canon? Wouldn't be a Mysterious Figure then, now would he? maggosh 02:56, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

"そうなりますが、「KHBbS」の時点ではその正体はまったくわからないと思います。留まりし思念がそうだったように、現時点ではその存在については謎だらけのキャラにしています。"

That's the line that has been translated as (this is from memory, and not exact) "Like the Lingering Sentiment, you think it shouldn't appear at this time [in BbS], but it does. At the present time, its existence if full of mysteries."

It is possible that this was mistranslated, so if anyone can get a better translation (I didn't do this one, and it's kind of hard to unravel the grammar he's using, since he's trying to be very precise in his answer), please do. It's completely possible that we're wrong here.Glorious CHAOS! 15:45, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Please explain how that means it is canon? Last time I checked, Sora vs Lingering Sentiment(aka Terra) is NOT canon. Terra wasn't supposed to be in KH2FM, but yet he was. Also, "At the present time, its existence if full of mysteries." You are just validating what I said before that it's just unknown who it is. That quote does not prove that the fight is in canon....-FatalMercy 18:38, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA by saying that "while it shouldn't make sense that he is there during the time, he is" points to the fight being canon because if it wasn't canon, it wouldn't have to make sense, it would just be there.

Kind of like Lingering Sentiment,Unknown KH1FM, Sephiroth , or Kurt Zisa? They are "just there" during the time and are random boss fights to test your skills/something else to entertain you. Those are not canon fights. I still don't see how saying he's there proves its canon.-FatalMercy 19:01, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

I'll use one of your examples. Lingering Sentiment. At the time of KH2FM he was just a super boss, but by the time KHBBS came out we realized he wasn't JUST a super boss, he is the last remaining essence of Terra (unless somewhere deep down Terra is still fighting MX for control of his Heart) --Evnyofdeath 19:22, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

...what do you mean "last time I checked"? Nomura has never said that the LS fight in KH2FM was non-canon. As for Kurt Zisa, the journal and the fact that Xion resembles Kurt Zisa when replicating Sora's memories of Agrabah are evidence for it being explicitly canon. Unknown KH1FM is specifically mentioned in the opening to KH2 ("I've been to see him...") Sephiroth in KH1FM has an entire cutscene added for him. I don't see how any of these could be considered non-canon. As far as I can tell, LS was only considered non-canon because people think that stuff like "New Game+" means that the characters went through the entire plot again, in player-time, rather than it just being a mechanic to unlock parts of the plot.Glorious CHAOS! 19:29, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

So the Phantom is a canon boss? Canon means it is part of the main storyline. A canon fight would be Sora vs. Xemnas, we know it happened, and Xemnas wasn't an OPTIONAL/SECRET boss, it is impossible to progress the storyline further without beating Xemnas. Optional/Secret means you DO NOT have to fight to progress/add to the main story, so therefore it is NOT canon. "Nomura has never said that the LS fight in KH2FM was non-canon" He never said it WAS canon either. Lingering Sentiment,I buy as semi-canon, due to it is Terra's essence, and there could be a possible(note possible, if KH3 has no connection to this fight, then it is non-canon.)connection in the future. My bad on that. But other than that, the other bosses are not canon. "Sephiroth in KH1FM has an entire cutscene added for him." So how come Sora/Sephiroth don't remember each other if it was canon? Sephy was just a Cameo boss.-FatalMercy 19:55, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

...yes, the Phantom is canon. It's given plot-time, a journal entry, the whole shebang. c. There is a difference between "non-canon" and "forgettable". Sora vs. FM1 Unknown is ABSOLUTELY canon. Sora vs. Lingering Sentiment being canon IS WHAT THIS QUOTE IS ABOUT.

Hades Cup is optional in KH1. However, KH2 and KHDays both have the seed listings for the Hades Cup up in the Coliseum, with Sora listed as the winner, none of which happens until you beat the Hades Cup in KH1.

Sora/Sephiroth - it was a coliseum match. Does Cloud ever mention his fight with Sora outside of the immediate cutscenes there? (maybe he does, but I don't think so). Does Leon? You have to beat Leon to seal Olympus Coliseum, and the later games say that Sora sealed everything. The important thing about Sephiroth was that Cloud knows him, and he definitely recognizes Sephiroth in KH2 - they even mention finishing their battle, as I recall.

With fictional canon, if it appears in the published material, and the author doesn't explicitly say that it isn't canon, and it isn't retconned by later material, it is canon. That's how it works. So far, later games have only supported the various sidequests and optional bosses as being canon.Glorious CHAOS! 20:38, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

"It's like you're saying that Angel Star heartless are non-canon because they aren't mentioned later" No, if you actually read what I say, Canon means part of the main story, AngelStar Heartless are part of the main plot, as is it is part of the process of collecting hearts for the Organization. As for Sephiroth, no crap he knows Cloud as he is from the same world, just like how Aerith, Yuffie, etc. all know each other before meeting Sora. As for the cups, in KH1 (copy pasting this from trivia section of Olympus Coliseum "In the first Kingdom Hearts, the player can complete the game without entering this world. But if the player were to go there after sealing Hollow Bastion, the scene between Hades and Maleficent is different: Maleficent is absent, and the scene ends after Hades makes his plan to kill both Sora and Hercules." Even though Hercules and every1 recognize Sora in KH2, its not part of the main canon, and is more of a side story, so anything that went on in KH1 within the Coliseum is not imporatant to the main story, which makes it non-canon; which obviously changes in KH2, when the Coliseum becomes canon. Everything that happens in a game is not canon, but since your completely ignoring my argument, i'll stop arguing.<-- For Real ---FatalMercy 21:36, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not ignoring your argument. Canon is, basically "What is the true story?". Later games have proven absolutely that the Hades Cup, Kurt Zisa, Sephiroth and Ice Titan (via the One-Winged Angel and Diamond Dust appearing in CoM), the FM1 Unknown, etc., are completely canon. For the rest, there is no reason to believe that they are not canon, because no one has said they are not, the future plots do not contradict them, and unlike the Postcard quest, for example, the developers took the time to develop plot for these sidequests.

By the way, the Angel Stars are not part of the main plot of Days. They are an avoidable common enemy at End of the World in KH, except for the last event swarm at Final Rest.Glorious CHAOS! 22:48, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

"They are an avoidable common enemy at End of the World in KH, except for the last event swarm at Final Rest." And in various Cups... You are reinforcing my point that you ignore/only read what you want to for some reason unbeknownst to me. I already stated what canon is in about every post of mine. I also already stated that the Hades cup was canon because of KH2, but again, you only read selectively. "For the rest, there is no reason to believe that they are'not canon, because no one has said they are not, the future plots do not contradict them" There is no reason to also believe they are IN canon if they are not stated to be so... which is what i've been trying to say since my first post. Assuming that something is factual when it has not been proven to be so, has no place in the wiki, as the point of the wiki is to provide the facts. Assuming that "X" is canon without viable proof (an article that is vague/cant be interpreted effectively is not viable proof) is irresponsible/stupid. You could say the previous sentence was hypocritical, but if something is not proven to be in the canon, it is then, by default, non-canon, until proven otherwise. You know how the saying goes "Never assume because it makes an A-- out of U and Me." What i've been trying to say all along is that the "proof" of it being canon is not a viable/ useful source, as it is confusing/vague, which means that posting that the Mysterious Figure is in canon 100%, is unfactual, and therefore not acceptable for being in the article...You'll probably ignore this and say "Nothing disproves it is canon, so therefore it is." *Sighs*---FatalMercy 01:12, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Please stop doing this.

1. "There is no reason to also believe they are IN canon if they are not stated to be so" - Yes, there is. They were in the released and published material. With your method ("Only if producer explicitly says it"), almost nothing would be considered canon, because Nomura has rarely ever needed to say what is and isn't canon.
2. "Assuming that something is factual when it has not been proven to be so, has no place in the wiki, as the point of the wiki is to provide the facts." - That is an extreme exaggeration and contortion of the definition of facts. You know better than that.
3. " You are reinforcing my point that you ignore/only read what you want to for some reason unbeknownst to me." - You absolutely did not say that the Hades Cup was canon. You said "Optional/Secret means you DO NOT have to fight to progress/add to the main story, so therefore it is NOT canon.", and then "Even though Hercules and every1 recognize Sora in KH2, its not part of the main canon, and is more of a side story, so anything that went on in KH1 within the Coliseum is not imporatant to the main story, which makes it non-canon;". Claiming that you said Hades Cup was canon is an outright lie.
4. "that the Mysterious Figure is in canon 100%, is unfactual" - actually, the MF and LS are pretty much the one time that Nomura has said anything anywhere near defining something as canon. With your definition, it would in fact be pretty much the only thing that is considered canon.

Finally, your constant ad hominem attacks are tiresome, and useless. I'm trying to respond to your points here, and you're not impressing anyone by calling me names.Glorious CHAOS! 12:54, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

In summary, and correct me if I'm wrong - your definition of canon is "The producers explicitly say it is canon, or it is important to the story". This does not include events called out by later games, because you specifically say that the Cups in KH1 are non-canon. Whereas my definition of canon is "Anything in a produced and released work that is not declared non-canon, nor contradicted by later material". If you'd like to read up on how other franchises handle canon, read here.

Excerpts:

• "The policy decrees that most fiction is canonical unless it is contradicted by a higher level source or is explicitly marked as non-canonical (such as material released under the Infinities banner)"
• "By contrast, Paramount, the owners of Star Trek, have for the most part limited their canon to events within the live-action television series and the motion pictures."
• "Some franchise owners ignore canon totally. The BBC, owners of Doctor Who, have no canon policy. Indeed so little attention is paid to it that the franchise is riddled with countless irreconcilable continuity clashes despite being presented as a single continuous story, even in the TV movie and continuing television series that were made many years after the original series was cancelled. It has been the fans who have therefore attempted to create a canon for the series, though this is in constant flux as new material is released and is the subject of perpetual arguments. "
• "Hasbro's only real input on what constitutes canon in Transformers comes from the Transformers Universe franchise, which grew out of the BotCon merchandise and fiction produced by 3H Productions, and has continued with Fun Publications' fan club and Timelines comics. These stories present the idea that each Transformers continuity exists in its own separate universe, with Primus and Unicron as entities which straddle (or easily travel between) these universes. This approach is essentially a tacit endorsement of the model that the Transformers fandom had already started working under: Everything is canon. "
• "In Transformers, "canon" is for all intents and purposes a synonym for "official". If it was released by a Transformers licensor with Hasbro approval, then it is canonical. However, simply being canonical doesn't say anything about what continuity or continuities it applies to. "
• "All officially-licensed fiction is canonical for some continuity. "

Even Star Trek, the most restrictive of these, still says that pretty much everything that occurs within the main series is canon. That's what we're saying here - if it occurs within the main game series, it's canon. I honestly don't know of anyone that says that only the "important" events count (for no small part being that that is such an arbitrary distinction), or even worse, that it is only canon if the producers take time to say so (they rarely ever do).Glorious CHAOS! 12:54, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Ok ok, since you went through all that trouble just to try and destroy little old me, you win. Lemme just clear up where " i outright lied."

Quoting myself--

"...and is more of a side story, so anything that went on in KH1 within the Coliseum is not imporatant to the main story, which makes it non-canon; which obviously changes in KH2, when the Coliseum becomes canon. <--------------- I said it later becomes canon, and i thus repeat my sentence of: You only read what you want to read. -FatalMercy 14:23, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

"and i thus repeat my sentence of: You only read what you want to read."

Oh, so that's what you meant. Okay, so no, the problem was not selective reading, it's that you are terrible at clarifying your point, and you take an absurd amount of offense when people misinterpret you, rather than clarifying yourself.

Here's what your section actually says:

"In KH1, Olympus Coliseum's KH1 story is non-canon because it is unimportant. In KH2, Olympus Coliseum's KH2 story is canon because it is important."

What you should have said is "...and is more of a side story, so anything that went on in KH1 within the Coliseum is unimportant to the main story, which leaves it as unconfirmed canon; which obviously changes in KH2, when the Coliseum story from KH1 is retroactively made canon."

This would have meant

"In KH1, Olympus Coliseum's KH1 story is not confirmed as canon because it is unimportant. In KH2, Olympus Coliseum's KH1 story is confirmed as canon."

Have I captured your point, then?Glorious CHAOS! 14:56, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

The post I was referring to, was to one that I wrote after the angelstar heartless post, which has somewhat better grammar. And no, you haven't "captured" any points of mine, so there's no reason to continuing arguing with someone who does not think canon is ambiguous. I say there's no reason to continue arguing, but yet you continuously post responses in order to antagonize me, so I must do the same. Tenga un buen dia, marica.-FatalMercy 15:22, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Are you serious!? Kryten is trying to RESOLVE THIS. He is trying to be civil and understand your argument. If anyone is being antagonistic its you sir. --Evnyofdeath 15:25, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Who the hell are you? Go ride his genatalia in some other post. I get antagonistic, because he doesn't read what I post, refuses to acknowledge my points/ POV. How does continuously disregarding everything I write since I first posted in this topic, resolving an issue? Please crawl back into your hole. Love <3-FatalMercy 15:39, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

My point EXACTLY. I said nothing except you were the antagonistic one, and you insult me in such a way. I believe thats called an ab homonim attack. And simply using the word 'genatalia' instead of a more vulgar version doesn't make you seem like less of a (pardon my language, I know swearing of any kind isn't liked here) an asshole. --Evnyofdeath 15:42, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

You come in out of nowhere and attack me, so that's why I attack you. "You reap what you sow." Maybe if you just, you know, didn't say anything, I wouldn't have been antagonistic towards you. Thanks for telling me I'm "an asshole" youre not the first, and won't be the last. Love ya, Gringo <3-FatalMercy 15:52, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

So your allowed to supporte what you belive through insult, but I'm not allowed to support what I believe through a civil manner? Either way, you got my ethnicity wrong. Just cuz I live in the USA doesn't mean I'm a "Gringo". --Evnyofdeath 15:56, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Verbally attacking me out of the blue is civilized? Wow, the world must be coming to an end. I live in the USA too, so learn what Gringo means before you attempt to argue. <3-FatalMercy 16:03, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

What is going on here? Take it your own talkpage.--Random!to a point! 16:05, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

maggosh ...the flint is struck. — "Maybe I should punish you after all." "Come on! Show a little backbone!" ENOUGH. This has gotten out of hand. FatalMercy, Kryten and Envy both want to end this dispute, and you're not helping. Keep going like this, and you'll be sure to get a Warning.

Like I said, verbally attacking/insulting my intelligence out of the blue isn't ending the dispute, i've been trying to get answer to "how is something proved to be canon, when the creator does not say so?" And i get verbally attacked by every member in here. Its cool tho. Love you all *hugs* <3-FatalMercy 16:22, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

maggosh ...the flint is struck. — "Maybe I should punish you after all." "Come on! Show a little backbone!" Nobody is verbally attacking you here. You've gotten your answer long ago, and you're making this longer than it has to be.

The answer I got was, "it just is." Which doesn't answer my question. <3-FatalMercy 16:40, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

The reason thats the only answer your getting is because thats the only answer Nomura is willing to give. --Evnyofdeath 16:53, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Which is what i've been trying to say the whole time, if Nomura does/does not say the fight is canon, it should not be posted in the article as so.-FatalMercy 16:56, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

The wires are getting crossed somewhere. Nomura has said that the fight against the mysterious Figure IS canon, however refuses to explain HOW it is or WHO it is. --Evnyofdeath 17:01, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

1. Disagreeing with you is not the same as "ignoring you".
2. I post responses because you keep saying I'm misreading you. I want to figure out what the hell you're saying, 'cause so far it all seems like illogical nonsense.
3. Do you even understand Japanese? I kind of assumed you did since you mentioned "reading the article", but now I'm beginning to doubt it.Glorious CHAOS! 18:12, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

I hate you Nomura

If the staff has trouble beating it, what makes you think the average gamer could!? I could only manage 5 hits on him, and whenever he clones himself I'm almost garantued death! --Evnyofdeath 17:48, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

maggosh The steel is forged... — "Souls as far as the eye can see..." "If you want light to rule over all, then you must rid the world of everything else." Allow me to copypasta what I said earlier; Friend, it's called challenge.

I know its a challenge, and its one I'm going to beat, but that doesn't change the fact Nomura has one twisted sense of humor making it this strong. --Evnyofdeath 18:10, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

It's classic Final Fantasy brokenness. Go look up Final Fantasy bosses like Yiazmat and Pandemonium Warden/Absolute Virtue. Yiazmat takes a good 2+ hours to beat, and has 50mil HP and has all kinds of status effects, immune to all magic, etc. -FatalMercy 18:37, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Pea14733 Freeze! — 13:53, September 14, 2010 (UTC) If it doesn't hard, it won't be fun ^^. Also, I heard that many people complained that KHII was too easy. So, Nomura made the later games harder and harder including Days's Challenge Sigils and this boss in BBS.

Picture?

Lt.Haven - 1988 too old-school for you? TALK - Gamer Why are we using the image of hooded Xemnas for the MF (no pun intended)? While they both use similar weapons, we shouldn't assume that s/he is Xemnas, or any other character for that matter. As far as any of us know, right now s/he could be Kairi's Grandmother. We should just use a screenshot for now, until somebody can render out an image from the game.

maggosh The steel is forged... — "Souls as far as the eye can see..." "If you want light to rule over all, then you must rid the world of everything else." The same render was used in the Birth by Sleep guidebook. Would you be able to supply a different render?

Lt.Haven - 1988 too old-school for you? TALK - Gamer Oh, that's why. I normally would be able to, but hacking isn't as easy and cheap as it used to be.

Strategy

I've beaten this guy with all three characters now but i'm new to editing wiki pages so i'll let someone who knows what they're doing decide if the information i have is relevant and worth adding to the article. If you want I'll post my strategy here or in the forum. Here are a few things I think should be mentioned in the article. In the "Appearance" section, the shape-shifting nature of his weapon should be mentioned; it can change into a double bladed lightsaber, a whip and the hilts can also change into spear or arrowheads to be used during his attacks. The strategy section should also discourage the use of Shotlocks and D-Links. Shotlocks leave the player vulnerable and it's almost impossible to get a full lock on count against this boss as he is very fast and is always on the attack. D-linking during the battle will cause him to enter his invisiblity stage right from the get go making this difficult battle much harder. That's what I think should be added to the article and freely give out any other info i have if anyone thinks they need it.MyNameIsTheMaster 02:03, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Who could it be?

Who do you guys think he is?He cant be Xemnas he wasnt created yet and he doesnt have all those powers he cant be Xehanort cause(SPOILER)hes Terra's body(and I asssume soul) and Mx's heart,and he doesnt fight.So who could it be and I swear he has some connection to Xeahanort.I mean just look at his pose thats Xemnas's pose.Lssj4 15:30, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

DeadManCandyLand - Good. Let's See what your made of. TALK - Someone's gotta whip him into shape. 15:37, September 17, 2010 (UTC) i have a possible theory buts super lame ok here it is time travel yo

Another reason it can't be Xehanort is because Terra fights it, and all three fights are canon. But the time travel theory is actually plausible, I mean, from watching the battle he has control over time, to a much greater degree than Luxord.--Evnyofdeath 16:09, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

It could be Eraqus, or what's left of him in a manner similar to the Lingering Sentiment and Vanitas Remnant. The leaked Final Mix video shows the new, mysterious armored figure with distinguishing similarities to Eraqus's uniform (his boots, waist pads, and what can be made out of his battle stance all match Eraqus's), and it takes place in the same area as the fight with this boss. --Immblueversion 00:09, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

what a seconed their's a leaked bbs final mix secret ending? where?98.93.46.68 21:38, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

I have a feeling there two different bosses one is connected to Xehanort and the other is eraqus's senteinent Im pretty sure thats true I just seen the trailer and its gotta be his LS just like Terra's and Vanitas's.Lssj4 02:51, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

I had a weird dream related to this guy a few nights back. I saw his "face" for a few seconds, but he was looking down so I mostly saw his head and beard. Something like Santa Claus, but it was shorter and blonde... I really need to figure out what the hell it is that I'm smoking... --Hyperwre_2.0 04:28, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

You just described Luxord, maybe you got the idea from Luxord controlling time, similar to how MF does when your fighting him/her/it.--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 21:51, September 26, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman

It was longer than his. He was bald at the top and the beard was comicly rounded.. Like I said, Santa Claus but shorter. Luxord is more... Scruffy. Also I haven't faught him yet.. I've been a little busy in the Mirage Arena... The Iron Impersioner IV is my Nemisis... and fighting him solo isn't fun. --Hyperwre_2.0 17:42, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

Real name literally "Unknown"

In this video, approximately 5 minutes and 20 seconds in, there is shown a journal entry for this mysterious figure naming it the "Unknown". Also, it has come to my attention that one has attempted to create an article entitled "Unknown (Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep)" from scratch. What should be done? --Immblueversion 00:06, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Oh god dammit I made that name up to stop the edit warring. Why does SE mock me so?Glorious CHAOS! 00:12, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Well that's a boring name. We just need to move it back to "Unknown (Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep)".LapisLazuliScarab02:13, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Well isnt it ok to have a article about that I mean they even keep his name as unknown so that article should be ok there probly just gonna make up fanon theories of his name and other stuff and who it is like us(But its not really a fanon material based)so just move it to the twilight town library its not all that seriuos.Lssj4 02:56, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Lssj4, the only thing that prevents us from doing so is that this is a mainspace article. This is not a discussion. Now, on KHFR, we put Xemnas from KHFM (who was then known as "Unknown") under Xemnas (Boss), considering that the details had already been revealed. Same goes for KHW, because it was created in 2006, i.e. during the time KHII was released. Now, we might have an "Unknown (disambiguation)" page, but one will have to link to Xemnas (Boss), and the other will link to Unknown (i.e. without any suffixes ; Unknown is just going to be Unknown. Over on the other side, fr:Inconnu, the general term, only redirects to this page. TROISNYX AMDG 06:01, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Stuff to be added

I saw a video where someone beat him as Ven. In it, he showed that if you lay mines, the MF will jump over them. Don't know where to add this, so I'll leave it to you other people. --Evnyofdeath 19:06, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Strength and Defense

The stratagy guid lists the MF's strength and defense as '?', so I don't think its possible to find out what they actualy are, unless someone hacks into the game and gets the info, or its listed in a Japanese guide, which won't exist until BBSFM comes out. --Evnyofdeath 20:54, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

...exactly.Glorious CHAOS! 00:31, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Design

In the "Design" section, it said that the Unknown had a fairly masculine build but, so did Larxene. So i'm just saying, its gender is not exactly proven to be male so, maybe that should be removed.....--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 15:31, September 25, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman

Larxene is much thinner and has a lithe, hourglass figure. The Unknown has a similar body structure to Xemnas; more broad-shouldered. Either way, simply describing the Unknown's body structure is not the same as saying what its gender is; females can have masculine body builds, and vice versa.LapisLazuliScarab16:31, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

....I'm getting nauseous from thinking about what you said Lapis 17master 16:44, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Why?LapisLazuliScarab16:59, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Ugh, i know what you mean. Sorry, it was a disscusion to see if we should have changed it but it was also kind of meant for a joke, sorry.--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 17:31, September 25, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman

• imagining a muscular girl posing like a muscular man with sweats on her body and around her ,sparkling* *imagining again, a guy with a slender, girl like body.... with pink hair for some unknown reason* yeah, I think I'm gonna grab a bucket. lol. 17master 17:47, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Similarities

WarMonger89 Too bright a shine shows eyes of envy. you know, i've noticed that even though this guy is NOT woth Organization XIII, i've noticed that he has some moves or references with the members. like: Energy Blades: Xemnas (obvious) Pillars of Flames: Axel Tornado: Xaldin Replicating Clones: Larxene Reversing Time: Luxord Turning invisible: Possibly Roxas (because he can bend the Light around him making him invisible) so there's something to think about, eh?

Chitalian8 Say... — Only by allowing strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves. Life's little crossroads are often as simple as the pull of a trigger. — 00:34, September 28, 2010 (UTC) Don't forget Xigbar's lasers. I highly doubt that the invisibility was a reference to Roxas.

Lt.Haven - 1988 too old-school for you? TALK - Gamer One more thing should be noticed. He is the only of two characters in Birth By Sleep to wear a Dark Cloak. The other character is Master Xehanort when he dumps Ven's body on an island. I do not think this is a coincidence.

Ansem the wise wears a Black Coat in Birth by sleep.And most of his attacks are actually more similar to TVA than the Organization. 66.56.199.131 20:20, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

It could very well be a younger(Not Terranort) Xehanort. Who knows though? Naruto195 17:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps...

Maybe the reason you fight him in the original Land of Departure is because, the mysterious figure turned back time to make castle oblivion back into when it was still land of departure. Therefore he might be someone that that has something to do with Castle Oblivion. I think he has something to do with Organisation 13, because HE'S WEARING THEIR UNIFORM! and since castle oblivion was Organisation 13's second base, it would make sense. OR.... maybe it's a non-canon boss and it will never make any sense, and more people will waste time talking about it like we're doing now. OR... it might have something to do with Kingdom Hearts 3D.

Well, Nomura has said it IS a canon boss, and story wise it takes place BEFORE LoD turns into Castle Oblivion. Remember, while Terra is still Terra and Ven is still awake, LoD is drenched in Darkness, but hasnt' become Castle Oblivion yet. --Evnyofdeath 16:51, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Good Point