Game talk:Young Xehanort

Name?

How do we know that this is the name of this character? --BreaktheIce16 (talk) 10:17, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Chitalian8 Say... — Only by allowing strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves. Life's little crossroads are often as simple as the pull of a trigger. — 23:44, June 22, 2010 (UTC) I don't think that we do, someone just jumped the gun and put a name that they thought was suitable there.

Oh, for God's sake. Seriously? I mean, you guys haven't heard? I remember reading in an interview that Tetsuya Nourma confirmed that this unknown is Xemnas before he became Xemnas. It's Xehanort. I do remember reading it, but I don't remember how to find it. Maybe in KHInsider or Kingdom Hearts Ultimania.

Either way, this just jumping the gun too fast.--NinjaSheik 01:29, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Uhhhh....Are you on crack or something? Normura NEVER said ANYTHING about the identity of this character in ANY sort of interview. --BreaktheIce16 (talk) 21:52, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

if you're talking about me when i had said "like xemnas" i didn't say anything about him being xemnasKhruler 20:02, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

ShadowXemnas - Nothingness...is...ETERNAL!!! TALK - Turn to Darkness! Well, whatever this new foe will be named, I'm going to call him "Xehanort's Promise". As it is not a Remnant or an Absent Silhouette, but something before the actual being, it seems fair to list it as a foreshadowing enemy (Read: Enemy that tells of the future in subtle hints), and since Xehanort's desire is to control Kingdom Hearts, and Xemnas is a part of that, this being is a "Promise" that he will do whatever it takes to do so. Thus, I shall call him Xehanort's Promise until the official name is revealed (and if it remains Unknown, I'll just stick with X.P.). What do you guys think of it?

WarMonger89 Too bright a shine shows eyes of envy. — 05:42, July 16, 2010 (UTC) i think it's a really good title. i wonder if that's what it's really called...

Naruto195 —What the hell did you do Angeal!? TALK - "Is that? Is that your idea of honor?." — Naruto195 07:35, July 16, 2010 (UTC) Xehanort's Promise? What? This isn't the page to talka bout what ever name YOU want to give him,this is the offical page. His name is Unknown until the game comes out. Not meaning to sound rude by the way.

ShadowXemnas - Nothingness...is...ETERNAL!!! TALK - Turn to Darkness! Don't worry, you're not being rude, and I understand where you're coming from. When I said I would call him Xehanort's Promise, I meant as a reference name, like I call Ansem, Seeker of Darkness "Ansem the Dark" in standard conversation. I didn't say that I would change the page name or something crazy like that, since it would be unnecessary and likely net me a warning. So any fears you may have can be assuaged. At this moment in time this character is the new Unknown, but I will refer to him as Xehanort's Promise when mentioning him. Makes it less confusing, considering that Xemnas is called Unknown in KHFM. Aside from that, what do you think of the name, unofficial it may be?

i'm got 35% sure that unknown is xehanort from KH3,the unknown know to rewind time,that means he is coming from the future, maybe he come back to here to try player skill ,just like KH1FM xemnas did to sora.

Well here's my theory: It's Master Xehanort's nobody(or something like that). now before you all say anything, please hear me out. Roxas was born when Sora gave up his heart to free Kairi's. well what happened to Master Xehanort's original body when he forced his heart into Terra's body? I know it's not very likely to some people, but its still a good theory right? I mean it's so close to Xemnas its not funny! User:Chaosmage1

It was me! :O

I started the page because no one else had before. Pretty much everyone at the KHI community was calling him that, so I figured why not. I did it just so we actually had a page started for the character, and could edit it as the news and videos and whatnot came out.

Why not just, you know, wait until there's actual information? We have, what, three more months now?Glorious CHAOS! 06:01, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

from looking through all model files i found this:

this is one of the models where my model exporter produces only garbage uv data, but from the texture, it is xehanort:

his filename is h04di -> the 4th high poly model from Destiny Island.

here the confirmed pictures: looks like Xemnas from KH1FM, but he can't exist at that time, so Xehanort has the highest chance.

Xehanort appears in a black cloak near the beginning of the game, and the texture seems to resemble the "young master xehanort" as well. It's probably just that, not the new boss.Glorious CHAOS! 19:41, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

You can get a keyblade

it said so in the interview just look at http://www.khinsider.com/

....and this is why you shouldn't rely on incompetent translators. The interview says that you get VANITAS's Keyblade after you beat VANITAS's Sentiment.Glorious CHAOS! 09:56, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

WingBlade - Whatever it takes. Anything to save Terra and Aqua. TALK - {{{time}}} Actually, it's Vanitas's Sentiment's Keyblade not Vanitas's Keyblade. Not really sure but, Nomura said "In addition, there were complaints about the reward for defeating Vanitas' Sentiment, so you will now receive his Keyblade as a prize." "His Keyblade" may mean either one!

Again, don't rely on machine translators. The interview point-blank says "Vanitas's Keyblade".Glorious CHAOS! 10:21, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

His Weapons

hey everyone, Ixbran here

after they released the new trailer for the english version of BbS, i took some screen shots and from them was able to make a picture of the bosses weapons using photoshop.

Uknowns Weapons

i am willing to donate it to Kingdom Hearts wiki, till we can get ahold of offical art of them.

i hope this helps Ixbran 22:22, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Our policy is to not use fanart, but the effort is much appreciated.LapisLazuliScarab22:24, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, i understand. just trying to help since the page feels very empty with no pictures there. Ixbran 00:38, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Heh, blue lightsabers. What is this, the 'good' Xehanort? Is the reason his lightsabers are blue instead of red because he's the good guy at that moment? Makes you wonder...--Pkthis 04:38, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

has anyone else noticed that he holds his weapon in a reverse where as Xemnas wields his similar weapons as extentions of his hands

Rough translation (because the khinsider post was riddled with error)

KHBbS: Blitz PS, Mr. Nomura interview, and North America version radio actor and additional element, etc.

- Blitz PS Vol.474 (It is an article on 6/25 sales).

― The sale of North America version "KHBbS" seems to be near.

Mr. Nomura: It is September 7. There is variously additional element, too and it was restlessly changeable. The voice of [erakuu;su] is competing of the dream of "Star Wars" and "Star Trek" because Leonard Nimoy (Leonard Nimoy) took charge of the voice of mark Hamill (Mark Hamill) and [zeano-to]. The enemy character of the mystery is added. It is not possible to win easily probably because it frightens and it is strong. Opinions such as "I did not want to meet twice" and "It was possible to win 20 times at last once" had come out from [debakka-].

― Is it stronger than the thought of [vanitasu]?

Mr. Nomura: There are some people who felt that the thought of [vanitasu] is stronger, and is a person who feels that a new character doesn't fight overwhelmingly easily though the questionnaire was taken. However, a new character is obviously stronger for the performance etc. of the technique. Bang Bang ..already enormous technique.. is used. It is up to a type like the stay thought of "KH2FM+" as for either of this new characters while the following movement etc. were a legible comparatively other parties in the thought of [vanitasu]. Next, what attack you do is not understood, and there is disagreeable.

― Will the new character be still a person in close relation to the story?

Mr. Nomura: I do not think that the true colors is understood at all at "KHBbS" though it becomes so. The existence is made character covered with the mysteries like being so the stay thought now.

― Other main change points?

Mr. Nomura: Because the Mega flare was too brutal oppositely though there was an addition in all places really in detail, the weakening does. The key braid of [vanitasu] can be obtained because there were a lot of voices of dissatisfaction ..[gohoubi] when the thought of [vanitasu] is knocked down... ..novel one.. some as the play element. add such a correctionProbably the tradition of the "KH" series around here.

― Is there a new secret movie?

Mr. Nomura: To our regret, it is not. There was no added time there. The secret movie is preparatory in "KH Re:Coded" though it is what when saying the taking the place. Please look forward because it is a content that not is mobile. The respect was considered this time because there was a lot of hows for being to see the secret movie at "KH 358/2 Days".

Twice!?

in the article, it says that the unknown is fought twice. Is there any proof that it is fought twice?Keyblade0 01:13, July 20, 2010 (UTC)Keyblade0

Yes: Nomura said so.Glorious CHAOS! 03:05, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Link

So was there a reason why the link to this page was removed from the kh bbs section thing that expands at the bottom???--Chaosxterra09 23:35, September 1, 2010 (UTC)Chaosxterra09

Mysterious Figure

The official name given to the character is the Mysterious Figure. He drops a keyblade after his defeat named "No Name."

http://forums.khinsider.com/spoilers/153866-strategy-guide-info-spoilers-update-2-a.html

There are scans now to back up what I posted on KHInsider's forums. This article requires a name change. --BreaktheIce16 (talk) 20:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Can anybody verify what guidebook these scans are from? They're not worth crap as sources otherwise.LapisLazuliScarab03:27, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

So apparently the scans are from the BradyGames guide - the IMDB of guidebooks. Why is it so hard for people to wait for credible sources? It's less than a week to the release of the game.LapisLazuliScarab03:33, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Like I've said before, I'd be willing to go through the game once I have it to verify all of this. maggosh 03:34, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Again bringing up the IMDB analogy; by the same token I could have put James Earl Jones as the VA for Aqua and just said "I'll check it when the game comes out anyway".LapisLazuliScarab03:37, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

so all edits made in light of this information will have to be reverted?--ShadowsTwilight 03:43, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

That's my opinion, but so far I seem to be alone on this.LapisLazuliScarab03:47, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

WheelyRampage - Replay. TALK - Tournament decides. Well, I guess if the title gets changed, could someone maybe change all other instances of the Unknown to Mysterious Figure? And someone please change you fight him twice, that was a mistranslation. You can find a better one here: http://heartstation.org/?p=2295 Sorry, those things are just bugging me.

Land of Departure? (Warning: Spoilers)

So, do we have to keep a save file for each character BEFORE the Land of Departure gets destroyed? I mean, how else do we get there? 66.215.20.249 22:42, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

maggosh The steel is forged... — "Souls as far as the eye can see..." "If you want light to rule over all, then you must rid the world of everything else." Through a mix of game save files.

Excuse me? Not sure I really understand, so you just make sure to save right before the world gets destroyed? 66.215.20.249 04:09, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Like in ReCoM, beating the Vanitas's Lingering Spirit unlocks the Mysterious Figure for all save files, even ones you haven't beaten the Spirit on. However, since you can't visit Land of Departure after beating the Lingering Spirit, you have to go back to an earlier save file, or start a new game. There has been some rumor, though, that you can take your stats and inventory from the completed game with you, though I haven't seen any evidence on that yet.Glorious CHAOS! 15:54, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Somebody?

How do we know that the Mysterious Figure is a somebody? For all we know, it could be a nobody, heartless, unversed, or the smoke monster from lost. KKD

That's the thing; we don't know. Until we do, let's just keep it this way. --LegoAlchemist 00:30, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA So Somebody has officially become the Misc. category

Kana + Romaji?

This boss is an English exclusive. So why would it have a Japanese name? I think that should be removed from the Lacking Template at the top. 66.215.20.249 01:32, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

There are no English exlusives for Kingdom Hearts, at least not for long. Just wait and see;-) ShardofTruth 08:03, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Yeaah, you're right. 66.215.20.249 17:23, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

ZexionFan321 - So it's the strength of his Heart that intrigues you...The heart chosen by the Keyblade. TALK - More pain for you means more fun for me! - 17:36, September 4, 2010 (UTC) He is an English exclusive just like Sephiroth, Kurt Zisa, and the Ice Titan in KH.

maggosh The steel is forged... — "Souls as far as the eye can see..." "If you want light to rule over all, then you must rid the world of everything else." You forget; those bosses became available in Final Mix, no longer making them English exclusive.

ZexionFan321 - So it's the strength of his Heart that intrigues you...The heart chosen by the Keyblade. TALK - More pain for you means more fun for me! - 17:41, September 4, 2010 (UTC) But I think Nomura said that their were no plans for a Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep Final Mix.

Chitalian8 Say... — Only by allowing strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves. Life's little crossroads are often as simple as the pull of a trigger. — 17:42, September 4, 2010 (UTC) That's what he said about KHII, and look what happened.

maggosh The steel is forged... — "Souls as far as the eye can see..." "If you want light to rule over all, then you must rid the world of everything else." That's what he said about Kingdom Hearts II, and we all know what happened after that. EDIT CONFLICT: Dammit Chitalian! D:

Chitalian8 Say... — Only by allowing strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves. Life's little crossroads are often as simple as the pull of a trigger. — 17:46, September 4, 2010 (UTC) My bad, sorry XD

ZexionFan321 - So it's the strength of his Heart that intrigues you...The heart chosen by the Keyblade. TALK - More pain for you means more fun for me! - 17:47, September 4, 2010 (UTC) Plus there have been remakes or Final Mixes of every KH game except for Days and BBS...for now.

But for now, there are no plans for a Final Mix, and therefore a Kana + Romaji is not needed. But like you said, there's always that possibility...

My opinion is that we wait until a Final Mix/International Edition is announced/released in Japan, and then add something about needing a Japanese name. But for now, it's unneeded. Tamroc7 18:10, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Lightning XIII - "We live to make the impossible possible!" TALK - "Worst Birthday ever..." Yeah, but then again a Final Mix appearing in America and PAL regions is unlikely because, since Nomura said that he'll only make Final Mixes outside of Japan as a trump card. Bascially the English releases of BBS is the closest thing to a Final Mix. :D Its about time we get something that the Japanese don't! XD

Amen to that! --66.215.20.249 01:18, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Birth By Sleep's Final Mix with him confirmed to be in it has been announced in Famitsu.The scan is here: So just wait until Winter, and you'll have his Japanese name.--58.96.52.3 09:55, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

The Stratagy Guide Messed Up

The Stratagy guide said he slows down time for your character while he moves at normal speed. Anyone who has seen a battle with him or fought him can tell he actually rewinds time for BOTH him and your character for a few seconds. --Evnyofdeath 16:53, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Ya know, there is a difference between slowing time down and rewinding it. The slow time thing is basically the reason for him being so ungodly fast.109.153.253.196 19:41, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Something REALLY important just dawned on me about this boss

Is says the requirements to fight this boss are to beat VLS then load a game file where you can go to the Land of Departure. It NEVER says you can't fight him on the same file you beat VLS as long as you can go to the Land of Departure on that file. In other words, On any scenario except the Last Episode. --Evnyofdeath 14:45, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Erry - Let me think about it. TALK - Scherzo Di Notte ~ {{{time}}} Evnyofdeath, you're right. I defeated VLS on the Final Episode with Aqua, loaded a saving with Terra, Ventus and Aqua BEFORE the final battle with Master Xehanort and Vanitas and went to LoD and was able to fight him.

Ah, thanks guys for that. Nice to see this cleared up. So every chapter but the final one huh? Guess I was wrong when I said all the time. More like all but the final I guess. - Flintlock Vitor 21:25, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, so is it possible to get to LoD AFTER fighting the final bosses on the file used to fight the final bosses? Or do we have to make a second file just before the final bosses? --66.215.20.249 22:42, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Well, TLoD is available to go to anytime after the point that corrosponds to Terra's fight with ME in any scenario. If you leave the KG you can go to TLoD anytime. --Evnyofdeath 17:50, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

But can we get there in the same file used to defeat the final bosses? 66.215.20.249 02:34, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

If you mean the Final Episode, the part you fight Xehanort as Aqua, then no, because you can't go to the Land of Departure in the Final Episode --Evnyofdeath 03:34, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Canon?

Can someone explain to me how this is exactly a canon fight? The supposed article that states it is canon, from what ive read, makes no reference/ doesnt mention at all that this fight is canon. It just says "hes shrouded in mystery" that means we just dont know who or what it is at this point.FatalMercy 02:52, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Precisely. Why would Nomura tell us who he is and how the fight is canon? Wouldn't be a Mysterious Figure then, now would he? maggosh 02:56, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

"そうなりますが、「KHBbS」の時点ではその正体はまったくわからないと思います。留まりし思念がそうだったように、現時点ではその存在については謎だらけのキャラにしています。"

That's the line that has been translated as (this is from memory, and not exact) "Like the Lingering Sentiment, you think it shouldn't appear at this time [in BbS], but it does. At the present time, its existence if full of mysteries."

It is possible that this was mistranslated, so if anyone can get a better translation (I didn't do this one, and it's kind of hard to unravel the grammar he's using, since he's trying to be very precise in his answer), please do. It's completely possible that we're wrong here.Glorious CHAOS! 15:45, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Please explain how that means it is canon? Last time I checked, Sora vs Lingering Sentiment(aka Terra) is NOT canon. Terra wasn't supposed to be in KH2FM, but yet he was. Also, "At the present time, its existence if full of mysteries." You are just validating what I said before that it's just unknown who it is. That quote does not prove that the fight is in canon....-FatalMercy 18:38, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA by saying that "while it shouldn't make sense that he is there during the time, he is" points to the fight being canon because if it wasn't canon, it wouldn't have to make sense, it would just be there.

Kind of like Lingering Sentiment,Unknown KH1FM, Sephiroth , or Kurt Zisa? They are "just there" during the time and are random boss fights to test your skills/something else to entertain you. Those are not canon fights. I still don't see how saying he's there proves its canon.-FatalMercy 19:01, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

I'll use one of your examples. Lingering Sentiment. At the time of KH2FM he was just a super boss, but by the time KHBBS came out we realized he wasn't JUST a super boss, he is the last remaining essence of Terra (unless somewhere deep down Terra is still fighting MX for control of his Heart) --Evnyofdeath 19:22, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

...what do you mean "last time I checked"? Nomura has never said that the LS fight in KH2FM was non-canon. As for Kurt Zisa, the journal and the fact that Xion resembles Kurt Zisa when replicating Sora's memories of Agrabah are evidence for it being explicitly canon. Unknown KH1FM is specifically mentioned in the opening to KH2 ("I've been to see him...") Sephiroth in KH1FM has an entire cutscene added for him. I don't see how any of these could be considered non-canon. As far as I can tell, LS was only considered non-canon because people think that stuff like "New Game+" means that the characters went through the entire plot again, in player-time, rather than it just being a mechanic to unlock parts of the plot.Glorious CHAOS! 19:29, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

So the Phantom is a canon boss? Canon means it is part of the main storyline. A canon fight would be Sora vs. Xemnas, we know it happened, and Xemnas wasn't an OPTIONAL/SECRET boss, it is impossible to progress the storyline further without beating Xemnas. Optional/Secret means you DO NOT have to fight to progress/add to the main story, so therefore it is NOT canon. "Nomura has never said that the LS fight in KH2FM was non-canon" He never said it WAS canon either. Lingering Sentiment,I buy as semi-canon, due to it is Terra's essence, and there could be a possible(note possible, if KH3 has no connection to this fight, then it is non-canon.)connection in the future. My bad on that. But other than that, the other bosses are not canon. "Sephiroth in KH1FM has an entire cutscene added for him." So how come Sora/Sephiroth don't remember each other if it was canon? Sephy was just a Cameo boss.-FatalMercy 19:55, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

...yes, the Phantom is canon. It's given plot-time, a journal entry, the whole shebang. c. There is a difference between "non-canon" and "forgettable". Sora vs. FM1 Unknown is ABSOLUTELY canon. Sora vs. Lingering Sentiment being canon IS WHAT THIS QUOTE IS ABOUT.

Hades Cup is optional in KH1. However, KH2 and KHDays both have the seed listings for the Hades Cup up in the Coliseum, with Sora listed as the winner, none of which happens until you beat the Hades Cup in KH1.

Sora/Sephiroth - it was a coliseum match. Does Cloud ever mention his fight with Sora outside of the immediate cutscenes there? (maybe he does, but I don't think so). Does Leon? You have to beat Leon to seal Olympus Coliseum, and the later games say that Sora sealed everything. The important thing about Sephiroth was that Cloud knows him, and he definitely recognizes Sephiroth in KH2 - they even mention finishing their battle, as I recall.

With fictional canon, if it appears in the published material, and the author doesn't explicitly say that it isn't canon, and it isn't retconned by later material, it is canon. That's how it works. So far, later games have only supported the various sidequests and optional bosses as being canon.Glorious CHAOS! 20:38, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

"It's like you're saying that Angel Star heartless are non-canon because they aren't mentioned later" No, if you actually read what I say, Canon means part of the main story, AngelStar Heartless are part of the main plot, as is it is part of the process of collecting hearts for the Organization. As for Sephiroth, no crap he knows Cloud as he is from the same world, just like how Aerith, Yuffie, etc. all know each other before meeting Sora. As for the cups, in KH1 (copy pasting this from trivia section of Olympus Coliseum "In the first Kingdom Hearts, the player can complete the game without entering this world. But if the player were to go there after sealing Hollow Bastion, the scene between Hades and Maleficent is different: Maleficent is absent, and the scene ends after Hades makes his plan to kill both Sora and Hercules." Even though Hercules and every1 recognize Sora in KH2, its not part of the main canon, and is more of a side story, so anything that went on in KH1 within the Coliseum is not imporatant to the main story, which makes it non-canon; which obviously changes in KH2, when the Coliseum becomes canon. Everything that happens in a game is not canon, but since your completely ignoring my argument, i'll stop arguing.<-- For Real ---FatalMercy 21:36, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not ignoring your argument. Canon is, basically "What is the true story?". Later games have proven absolutely that the Hades Cup, Kurt Zisa, Sephiroth and Ice Titan (via the One-Winged Angel and Diamond Dust appearing in CoM), the FM1 Unknown, etc., are completely canon. For the rest, there is no reason to believe that they are not canon, because no one has said they are not, the future plots do not contradict them, and unlike the Postcard quest, for example, the developers took the time to develop plot for these sidequests.

By the way, the Angel Stars are not part of the main plot of Days. They are an avoidable common enemy at End of the World in KH, except for the last event swarm at Final Rest.Glorious CHAOS! 22:48, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

"They are an avoidable common enemy at End of the World in KH, except for the last event swarm at Final Rest." And in various Cups... You are reinforcing my point that you ignore/only read what you want to for some reason unbeknownst to me. I already stated what canon is in about every post of mine. I also already stated that the Hades cup was canon because of KH2, but again, you only read selectively. "For the rest, there is no reason to believe that they are'not canon, because no one has said they are not, the future plots do not contradict them" There is no reason to also believe they are IN canon if they are not stated to be so... which is what i've been trying to say since my first post. Assuming that something is factual when it has not been proven to be so, has no place in the wiki, as the point of the wiki is to provide the facts. Assuming that "X" is canon without viable proof (an article that is vague/cant be interpreted effectively is not viable proof) is irresponsible/stupid. You could say the previous sentence was hypocritical, but if something is not proven to be in the canon, it is then, by default, non-canon, until proven otherwise. You know how the saying goes "Never assume because it makes an A-- out of U and Me." What i've been trying to say all along is that the "proof" of it being canon is not a viable/ useful source, as it is confusing/vague, which means that posting that the Mysterious Figure is in canon 100%, is unfactual, and therefore not acceptable for being in the article...You'll probably ignore this and say "Nothing disproves it is canon, so therefore it is." *Sighs*---FatalMercy 01:12, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Please stop doing this.

1. "There is no reason to also believe they are IN canon if they are not stated to be so" - Yes, there is. They were in the released and published material. With your method ("Only if producer explicitly says it"), almost nothing would be considered canon, because Nomura has rarely ever needed to say what is and isn't canon.
2. "Assuming that something is factual when it has not been proven to be so, has no place in the wiki, as the point of the wiki is to provide the facts." - That is an extreme exaggeration and contortion of the definition of facts. You know better than that.
3. " You are reinforcing my point that you ignore/only read what you want to for some reason unbeknownst to me." - You absolutely did not say that the Hades Cup was canon. You said "Optional/Secret means you DO NOT have to fight to progress/add to the main story, so therefore it is NOT canon.", and then "Even though Hercules and every1 recognize Sora in KH2, its not part of the main canon, and is more of a side story, so anything that went on in KH1 within the Coliseum is not imporatant to the main story, which makes it non-canon;". Claiming that you said Hades Cup was canon is an outright lie.
4. "that the Mysterious Figure is in canon 100%, is unfactual" - actually, the MF and LS are pretty much the one time that Nomura has said anything anywhere near defining something as canon. With your definition, it would in fact be pretty much the only thing that is considered canon.

Finally, your constant ad hominem attacks are tiresome, and useless. I'm trying to respond to your points here, and you're not impressing anyone by calling me names.Glorious CHAOS! 12:54, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

In summary, and correct me if I'm wrong - your definition of canon is "The producers explicitly say it is canon, or it is important to the story". This does not include events called out by later games, because you specifically say that the Cups in KH1 are non-canon. Whereas my definition of canon is "Anything in a produced and released work that is not declared non-canon, nor contradicted by later material". If you'd like to read up on how other franchises handle canon, read here.

Excerpts:

• "The policy decrees that most fiction is canonical unless it is contradicted by a higher level source or is explicitly marked as non-canonical (such as material released under the Infinities banner)"
• "By contrast, Paramount, the owners of Star Trek, have for the most part limited their canon to events within the live-action television series and the motion pictures."
• "Some franchise owners ignore canon totally. The BBC, owners of Doctor Who, have no canon policy. Indeed so little attention is paid to it that the franchise is riddled with countless irreconcilable continuity clashes despite being presented as a single continuous story, even in the TV movie and continuing television series that were made many years after the original series was cancelled. It has been the fans who have therefore attempted to create a canon for the series, though this is in constant flux as new material is released and is the subject of perpetual arguments. "
• "Hasbro's only real input on what constitutes canon in Transformers comes from the Transformers Universe franchise, which grew out of the BotCon merchandise and fiction produced by 3H Productions, and has continued with Fun Publications' fan club and Timelines comics. These stories present the idea that each Transformers continuity exists in its own separate universe, with Primus and Unicron as entities which straddle (or easily travel between) these universes. This approach is essentially a tacit endorsement of the model that the Transformers fandom had already started working under: Everything is canon. "
• "In Transformers, "canon" is for all intents and purposes a synonym for "official". If it was released by a Transformers licensor with Hasbro approval, then it is canonical. However, simply being canonical doesn't say anything about what continuity or continuities it applies to. "
• "All officially-licensed fiction is canonical for some continuity. "

Even Star Trek, the most restrictive of these, still says that pretty much everything that occurs within the main series is canon. That's what we're saying here - if it occurs within the main game series, it's canon. I honestly don't know of anyone that says that only the "important" events count (for no small part being that that is such an arbitrary distinction), or even worse, that it is only canon if the producers take time to say so (they rarely ever do).Glorious CHAOS! 12:54, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Ok ok, since you went through all that trouble just to try and destroy little old me, you win. Lemme just clear up where " i outright lied."

Quoting myself--

"...and is more of a side story, so anything that went on in KH1 within the Coliseum is not imporatant to the main story, which makes it non-canon; which obviously changes in KH2, when the Coliseum becomes canon. <--------------- I said it later becomes canon, and i thus repeat my sentence of: You only read what you want to read. -FatalMercy 14:23, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

"and i thus repeat my sentence of: You only read what you want to read."

Oh, so that's what you meant. Okay, so no, the problem was not selective reading, it's that you are terrible at clarifying your point, and you take an absurd amount of offense when people misinterpret you, rather than clarifying yourself.

Here's what your section actually says:

"In KH1, Olympus Coliseum's KH1 story is non-canon because it is unimportant. In KH2, Olympus Coliseum's KH2 story is canon because it is important."

What you should have said is "...and is more of a side story, so anything that went on in KH1 within the Coliseum is unimportant to the main story, which leaves it as unconfirmed canon; which obviously changes in KH2, when the Coliseum story from KH1 is retroactively made canon."

This would have meant

"In KH1, Olympus Coliseum's KH1 story is not confirmed as canon because it is unimportant. In KH2, Olympus Coliseum's KH1 story is confirmed as canon."

Have I captured your point, then?Glorious CHAOS! 14:56, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

The post I was referring to, was to one that I wrote after the angelstar heartless post, which has somewhat better grammar. And no, you haven't "captured" any points of mine, so there's no reason to continuing arguing with someone who does not think canon is ambiguous. I say there's no reason to continue arguing, but yet you continuously post responses in order to antagonize me, so I must do the same. Tenga un buen dia, marica.-FatalMercy 15:22, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Are you serious!? Kryten is trying to RESOLVE THIS. He is trying to be civil and understand your argument. If anyone is being antagonistic its you sir. --Evnyofdeath 15:25, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Who the hell are you? Go ride his genatalia in some other post. I get antagonistic, because he doesn't read what I post, refuses to acknowledge my points/ POV. How does continuously disregarding everything I write since I first posted in this topic, resolving an issue? Please crawl back into your hole. Love <3-FatalMercy 15:39, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

My point EXACTLY. I said nothing except you were the antagonistic one, and you insult me in such a way. I believe thats called an ab homonim attack. And simply using the word 'genatalia' instead of a more vulgar version doesn't make you seem like less of a (pardon my language, I know swearing of any kind isn't liked here) an asshole. --Evnyofdeath 15:42, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

You come in out of nowhere and attack me, so that's why I attack you. "You reap what you sow." Maybe if you just, you know, didn't say anything, I wouldn't have been antagonistic towards you. Thanks for telling me I'm "an asshole" youre not the first, and won't be the last. Love ya, Gringo <3-FatalMercy 15:52, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

So your allowed to supporte what you belive through insult, but I'm not allowed to support what I believe through a civil manner? Either way, you got my ethnicity wrong. Just cuz I live in the USA doesn't mean I'm a "Gringo". --Evnyofdeath 15:56, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Verbally attacking me out of the blue is civilized? Wow, the world must be coming to an end. I live in the USA too, so learn what Gringo means before you attempt to argue. <3-FatalMercy 16:03, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

What is going on here? Take it your own talkpage.--Random!to a point! 16:05, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

maggosh ...the flint is struck. — "Maybe I should punish you after all." "Come on! Show a little backbone!" ENOUGH. This has gotten out of hand. FatalMercy, Kryten and Envy both want to end this dispute, and you're not helping. Keep going like this, and you'll be sure to get a Warning.

Like I said, verbally attacking/insulting my intelligence out of the blue isn't ending the dispute, i've been trying to get answer to "how is something proved to be canon, when the creator does not say so?" And i get verbally attacked by every member in here. Its cool tho. Love you all *hugs* <3-FatalMercy 16:22, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

maggosh ...the flint is struck. — "Maybe I should punish you after all." "Come on! Show a little backbone!" Nobody is verbally attacking you here. You've gotten your answer long ago, and you're making this longer than it has to be.

The answer I got was, "it just is." Which doesn't answer my question. <3-FatalMercy 16:40, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

The reason thats the only answer your getting is because thats the only answer Nomura is willing to give. --Evnyofdeath 16:53, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Which is what i've been trying to say the whole time, if Nomura does/does not say the fight is canon, it should not be posted in the article as so.-FatalMercy 16:56, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

The wires are getting crossed somewhere. Nomura has said that the fight against the mysterious Figure IS canon, however refuses to explain HOW it is or WHO it is. --Evnyofdeath 17:01, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

1. Disagreeing with you is not the same as "ignoring you".
2. I post responses because you keep saying I'm misreading you. I want to figure out what the hell you're saying, 'cause so far it all seems like illogical nonsense.
3. Do you even understand Japanese? I kind of assumed you did since you mentioned "reading the article", but now I'm beginning to doubt it.Glorious CHAOS! 18:12, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Picture?

Lt.Haven - 1988 too old-school for you? TALK - Gamer Why are we using the image of hooded Xemnas for the MF (no pun intended)? While they both use similar weapons, we shouldn't assume that s/he is Xemnas, or any other character for that matter. As far as any of us know, right now s/he could be Kairi's Grandmother. We should just use a screenshot for now, until somebody can render out an image from the game.

maggosh The steel is forged... — "Souls as far as the eye can see..." "If you want light to rule over all, then you must rid the world of everything else." The same render was used in the Birth by Sleep guidebook. Would you be able to supply a different render?

Lt.Haven - 1988 too old-school for you? TALK - Gamer Oh, that's why. I normally would be able to, but hacking isn't as easy and cheap as it used to be.

Strategy

I've beaten this guy with all three characters now but i'm new to editing wiki pages so i'll let someone who knows what they're doing decide if the information i have is relevant and worth adding to the article. If you want I'll post my strategy here or in the forum. Here are a few things I think should be mentioned in the article. In the "Appearance" section, the shape-shifting nature of his weapon should be mentioned; it can change into a double bladed lightsaber, a whip and the hilts can also change into spear or arrowheads to be used during his attacks. The strategy section should also discourage the use of Shotlocks and D-Links. Shotlocks leave the player vulnerable and it's almost impossible to get a full lock on count against this boss as he is very fast and is always on the attack. D-linking during the battle will cause him to enter his invisiblity stage right from the get go making this difficult battle much harder. That's what I think should be added to the article and freely give out any other info i have if anyone thinks they need it.MyNameIsTheMaster 02:03, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Real name literally "Unknown"

In this video, approximately 5 minutes and 20 seconds in, there is shown a journal entry for this mysterious figure naming it the "Unknown". Also, it has come to my attention that one has attempted to create an article entitled "Unknown (Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep)" from scratch. What should be done? --Immblueversion 00:06, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Oh god dammit I made that name up to stop the edit warring. Why does SE mock me so?Glorious CHAOS! 00:12, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Well that's a boring name. We just need to move it back to "Unknown (Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep)".LapisLazuliScarab02:13, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Well isnt it ok to have a article about that I mean they even keep his name as unknown so that article should be ok there probly just gonna make up fanon theories of his name and other stuff and who it is like us(But its not really a fanon material based)so just move it to the twilight town library its not all that seriuos.Lssj4 02:56, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Lssj4, the only thing that prevents us from doing so is that this is a mainspace article. This is not a discussion. Now, on KHFR, we put Xemnas from KHFM (who was then known as "Unknown") under Xemnas (Boss), considering that the details had already been revealed. Same goes for KHW, because it was created in 2006, i.e. during the time KHII was released. Now, we might have an "Unknown (disambiguation)" page, but one will have to link to Xemnas (Boss), and the other will link to Unknown (i.e. without any suffixes ; Unknown is just going to be Unknown. Over on the other side, fr:Inconnu, the general term, only redirects to this page. TROISNYX AMDG 06:01, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Stuff to be added

I saw a video where someone beat him as Ven. In it, he showed that if you lay mines, the MF will jump over them. Don't know where to add this, so I'll leave it to you other people. --Evnyofdeath 19:06, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Strength and Defense

The stratagy guid lists the MF's strength and defense as '?', so I don't think its possible to find out what they actualy are, unless someone hacks into the game and gets the info, or its listed in a Japanese guide, which won't exist until BBSFM comes out. --Evnyofdeath 20:54, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

...exactly.Glorious CHAOS! 00:31, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Design

In the "Design" section, it said that the Unknown had a fairly masculine build but, so did Larxene. So i'm just saying, its gender is not exactly proven to be male so, maybe that should be removed.....--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 15:31, September 25, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman

Larxene is much thinner and has a lithe, hourglass figure. The Unknown has a similar body structure to Xemnas; more broad-shouldered. Either way, simply describing the Unknown's body structure is not the same as saying what its gender is; females can have masculine body builds, and vice versa.LapisLazuliScarab16:31, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

....I'm getting nauseous from thinking about what you said Lapis 17master 16:44, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Why?LapisLazuliScarab16:59, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Ugh, i know what you mean. Sorry, it was a disscusion to see if we should have changed it but it was also kind of meant for a joke, sorry.--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 17:31, September 25, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman

• imagining a muscular girl posing like a muscular man with sweats on her body and around her ,sparkling* *imagining again, a guy with a slender, girl like body.... with pink hair for some unknown reason* yeah, I think I'm gonna grab a bucket. lol. 17master 17:47, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Shoes

Chihuahuaman What did i do!? What did YOU do!?!? — 19:22, October 6, 2010 (UTC) I have just noticed from the picture that its footware is slightly different from the kind the Organization used, should this be mentioned inside the article?

Gender Uknown?

Why is its gender unknown?Im pretty sure its a man look it has manly boldy like structure why is it unknown?I mean its not that hard to tell its body shape kinda like Xemnas.--Lssj4 19:56, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Take two minutes to read the section right above you. We don't know anything about its physical appearance other than its general body structure, and it never talks. That is not enough to decide on a gender.LapisLazuliScarab20:26, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but body structure does look masculine but, same goes for Larxene. It is most likely male but it COULD be female but we won't know untill Nomura says anything. (Or in a couple games from now.)--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 23:45, October 9, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman

Larxene's body build is not manly its skinny she has big hips her figure is a little manly but mostly female.Go here please my new Kh fanon site its gonna have kh pics and Final fantasy stuff ONLY unlike the other sites and all their crazy pics.Heres a link [1]

Edit

Requesting a admin to make an edit. Change: "The Unknown's gender is unclear, though it has a fairly masculine build, as its body is completely covered by a hooded, black coat." To: "The Unknown's gender is unclear, as its body is completely covered by a hooded black coat, though it has a fairly masculine build." That is all. 66.215.20.249 22:13, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

And you couldn't do this...why? maggosh 15:43, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

The page is locked to unregistered contributors and accouns less than four days old.LapisLazuliScarab19:49, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Ah. Should've guessed. I'm still curious as to why he was miffed about switching those two segments, though. :/ maggosh 19:51, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

The sentence was grammatically incorrect. Grammar-wise, the way it was before implied that the Unknown had a masculine build because its body was covered by its cloak.LapisLazuliScarab20:21, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

I see this now. Thank you. maggosh 20:25, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I just had two let it out: I BEAT HIM!!!!!!

The Model itself reveals no identity.

iZerox Think I'll pass. My heart won't be in it. Don't have one, you know? — 15:06, October 25, 2010 (UTC) Hey guys just dropping by to say I managed to get the model and extract his textures. And sadly they don't reveal anything as to who his identity could be. So any who were hoping of revelation through such will just have to wait until Nomura says something or makes something. Here's his textures:

The Myserious Figure Could Be Saïx I have Legitimate Proof

iZerox I'm enjoying this. you guys are something else! — 22:24, October 25, 2010 (UTC) Okay guys disregard my last post on how it didn't reveal any identity. I just had to look closer! Turns out that this texture: Is identical to a texture used only used by Saïx. The other Organization members use a similar texture only they don't include the little white earring piece. There are four textures like this used by the Organization as seen here: Normal one: Luxord's: Xaldin's: Saïx: You can see Saïx's earring here: This is what that portion of the texture is used for and it isn't present on the other Organization member's textures. I even compared it to Master Xehanort in his black coat and it doesn't have it either. I said the model didn't contain any secrets up above but turns out that it very well may. Here's a side by side wireframe overlay of the meshes for the faces of Saïx and the Mysterious Figure: Obviously the Mysterious Figure's is lower polygons/triangles but all the models in birth by sleep are about 1/3 the polygon/triangle amount. This means that not as much detail is able to be displayed through the mesh alone. A lot of the detail is left to the texture on the psp models. But if you look that quite looks like a pointed ear and when I put the wireframes over each other they line up near perfectly. I never would have considered the possibility of Saïx being the Mysterious Figure but based on what I found by comparing the actual materials used in the game I'm convinced that he is indeed some incarnation of our beloved lunar warrior.

maggosh The steel is forged... — "Souls as far as the eye can see..." "If you want light to rule over all, then you must rid the world of everything else." iZerox, you're a genius.

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA the texture thing i am guessing is a result to them reaching into the pool of accessories textures and randomly/accidentally picked Saïx's, as for themesh, would you be able to show a sis-by-side shot of the other members, cuz that looks like it could just as easily be the shape of xemnas's face, at least to me it does. At the same time, nice work.

iZerox I'm enjoying this. you guys are something else! — 22:35, October 25, 2010 (UTC) Hah thanks Maggosh I'm just doing a bit of detective work. And as further proof here's a mesh overlay and wireframe overlay of the unhooded Saïx and the Mysterious Figure: Exact same proportions? Near identical wireframes? Seems even more likely to me.

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA O_O....As much as i don't like the idea of it being Saïx, I am finding it very hard to argue with this evidence. for the sake of being thorough, again have you compared this with any of the other members?

This does raise questions as to why it's Saïx who's the Mysterious Figure...

...but your evidence is pretty undeniable. Especially that Earring bit. And, of course, it makes us wonder about why Saïx changed weapons.

But then again, in Blank Points, MX mentioned that Terra was one of many paths he (MX) could take to achieve his goals...

Say what you will about Nomura, he knows how to get people hyped. Tamroc7 22:47, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

You have two points, the texture and the build. The texture one has already been addressed so I'll address the build. Yes, it they do seem to have the same build, however that in and of itself doesn't prove anything, as in real life two different people can have the same build. --Evnyofdeath 22:49, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

Chitalian8 Say... — Only by allowing strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves. Life's little crossroads are often as simple as the pull of a trigger. — 23:04, October 25, 2010 (UTC) ... Except the laws of the universe are different in a video game than they are in real life. Although personally I find it hard to believe that it is Saïx, your evidence is extremely strong, iZerox.

iZerox Talk about blank with a capital B. Man, oh, man. Not even the dusks are gonna crack this one... — 23:46, October 25, 2010 (UTC) Okay you asked for comparison against another Organization member. So here you go. You said that it looked like Xemnas to you so here's what I have after comparing the Mysterious Figure to Xemnas. So to start here is Xemans's face aligned with MF's as well as side by sides. It should be noted I had to scale the height of the face of Xemnas down to get a close match while I didn't have to do this, or any other modification for that matter, to get Saïx's to line up: Now for a side by side of Xemnas, Saïx and the Mysterious Figure: And here's an overlay with the Mysterious Figure outlined in blue: I'm still convinced it's some form of Saïx even though I'm surprised by this myself. Besides I don't think Squeenix would be so careless as to use an accidental texture.

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ok, so the body type seems to only match Saix perfectly, shocker, as for the texture, they might if it really didn't matter which one they used, considering the hood was up. Keep in mind you don't neccesarily have to consider canon material when deciding stuuf like that, especially if the extra accessories aren't going to be seen due to the hood being up

It really, really doesn't make sense for this to be Saix, but it could be more than just "eh, use Saix's model, who cares". It's possible that, whoever it is, they look similar to Saix, and so they used Saix's model as a stopgap. I highly, highly doubt that it is actually Saix, though.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 00:19, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

ShardofTruth Once you believe, truth and lie are quite the same thing. — 00:25, October 26, 2010 (UTC) Wow, that's quite an impressive research, thanks iZerox. If SE wanted to establish a connection with Xemnas, they would have used his model instead I guess. So at least we can be sure that's not true.

iZerox Talk about blank with a capital B. Man, oh, man. Not even the dusks are gonna crack this one... — 00:35, October 26, 2010 (UTC) "I'm still convinced it's some form of Saïx even though I'm surprised by this myself." As I said Kyrten Koro it might be some form of him. I never would have suspected Saïx until I began looking at the model and textures themselves. Granted Saïx was the right hand man of Xemnas so if Xehanort has an accomplice when he returns Saïx could make sense. Though how or why really really doesn't make sense to me. It's the only thing I can think of though. @ShardofTruth Your very welcome I'm just trying to provide the best help I can. Even if it may be proved wrong eventually.

Chitalian8 Say... — Only by allowing strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves. Life's little crossroads are often as simple as the pull of a trigger. — 00:40, October 26, 2010 (UTC) Although it's a possibility, I agree with Kryten in that it is not Saïx in any shape or form. Not only is it just unlikely, the Unknown's abilities, weapons, and fighting style do not match up to The Luna Diviner's at all.

LegoAlchemist - They changed "Snipe Magnet" to "Magnet Grab"? Who's translating this game, 4kids? TALK - Friendships are in direct contravention of mercenary conduct as delineated in your contracts, and on a personal note: I am very, very, disappointed with you. Impressive find, iZerox, kudos. This is all very conclusive and all, but I would be really let down if the Mysterious Figure was Saix. I mean, he's a cool guy and all, but I expect someone a lot, well, bigger than Saix. If you ask me, I think the identical renders were probably a coincidence, or maybe even just Square using a random render. Hopes aside, this is great evidence, but it is based on sight only, which is a poor way to make conclusions. The eyes can deceive you, after all. Riku wore a blindfold because of it. And if it was Saix, then I detest these render ripping programs for being able to spot on match up renders. It's almost like cheating the series. Sort of like "Young MX's" real face. Cool and all, but it was intended to be a mystery, and the program did a dandy job at cheating what could be a big spoiler to the series.

Man you are a genoius but its just impossible for it to be Saix look at how he fights and his body structure macthes Xemnas more.Also Saix died so it cant be him.In BBS Saix was still human he was Isa and just a teen.But as we see this guy can control time but still he must have a connection to Xemnas not Saix.--{{SUBST:User:Lssj4/sig2}} 13:42, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Lapidothtill - What sound does an Arctic Tern make, Col? TALK - BACKSTREET BOYS? @Lssj4. Yeah, but you can disregard how old anyone may have been during any time in the series. The reason is, Unknown can obviously control time. But, about it being Saix, it has to be mere coincidence. Saix never has shown any "time controlling" abilities, and if he could control time, I would think he would have shown it already. Also, if it is Saix, he would have to have traveled back to the Land of Departure before he was slain. Furthermore, if he had such immense powers wouldn't he have used them to save his own life? Regardless if he was keeping them a secret, surely he wouldn't die for it. Just to many reasons why its not him than why it is. But your research is legit, and there's no denying the body-type is like/ or just is Saix's render. But, what about characters that aren't in the Organization? The coat doesn't necessarily limit the possibilities to the Organization.

lapidoth's right, Ansem even uses the coat. But, it's Nomura y'know? anything can happen 17master "ORLY NAO?"

KingdomKeyDarkside - And now I sacrifice my pawn to summon Ultimate Elemental Hero Ultimately Shining Queen's Pawn! TALK - Kneel before the chessmaster! ~ 14:24, October 28, 2010 (UTC) that's interesting as hell, but I doubt it's much more than nomura being lazy.

Xabryn - I don't care if you're real!You're not better! TALK - It's nice to have darkness on my side.{{{time}}} You're probably right KKD, but lets sppose it is Saïx for a moment who known what he use to control time maybe a deviceor something and why he did used it before his "dead" maybe becuase he would become whole again like Xehanort did and maybe he knew it but whatever is the ansem for this puzzle the only way to know is wait for Nomura to ansswer it, speculation won't lead us anywhere, oh and I must agree with LA can't we just wait instead of cheating the series?

Lapidothtill - What sound does an Arctic Tern make, Col? TALK - BACKSTREET BOYS? Or maybe it's Isa's heartless? Edit: I have to agree with ST. Like i said before, there are more reasons to believe its not Saix, than there are to justify it is.

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA don't mean to sound like a broken record, but i renew my "they grabbed a random piece" theory, only rather than them grabbing a random accessories texture, i think they grabbed a random model in a black coat. sure it sounds kinda lazy, but i think they were both pressed with time and didn't expect anyone to look into the 3D-modeling for clues