Talk:Vanitas

Archives

Archive 1 - November 05, 2009

Trailer Info

Some of the Birth by Sleep Trailers Have been leaked. in one Master Xehanort Says "Those who Submit to darkness are not qualified to Wield the keyblade. already that man" Cuts to apprentice as he says this "has become a monster consumed by Darkness. use your power to defeat the darkness and correct my mistake." these trailers are on youtube. you might have to dig around a bit but it's there. should be mentioned in a article edit for link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuoA5DL_oM0&feature=related

i wonder why xehanort actually says that when in the final mix secret ending he seems to be fighting together with his apprentice and not against him --Darksoldier 12:47, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

maybe he changed his mind or that scene happens before this one

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA My running theory is that MX said that so that he could bait Ven into fighting/killing Vanitas so that he would do something evil, be regarded as a dark being, be rejected by his friends, yaddah yaddah

Speculation

Yer mom - SOMOS HOMBRES O PAYASOS!!!! TALK - {{{time}}} There is a lot of speculation in the Trivia, should we add a special part for theories or leave it where it is? (Some of those theories sound like nonsense tho...

like what?--KHF 19:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

i agree with that. there should be a theorys secttion , and some of it does sound like nonsense so you should add a section nammed that too! :D. but im not in charga that so.....

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Oh god, PLEASE no theories section...

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? ...And you are?

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Tetsuya Nomura.

I agree with NeutraVega. A theories section would defeat the purpose of the wiki being for facts. We will add information as it is given to us by the game designers, not add our ideas of what the designers might say. LapisScarab 20:52, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Lapis, my man, I truly wish that was the case. But alas, there is a wide variety of morons to be found about up in here that tend to contest logic, information, and reasoning with pure drivel and nonsense.

There you go again, Neutra... Forget the theories section, only the few bits of speculation should be left there. At least for Xion, we had one, and the page was vandalised. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne — 02:14, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it's necessary to go that far, Neutra. There's no harm in speculating, in my opinion, so long as it stays off the actual articles. I'm pretty sure Tetsuya Nomura has said that he leaves mysteries in the series to make us use our imaginations and speculate. It's just that wikias aren't the place for it. LapisScarab 02:50, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* You're right. There isn't any harm in doing speculation. But there is when it comes to involving factual articles in it.

After all, the whole purpose of the few bits of speculation is to keep the enthusiasm up. While too much of speculation's bound to damage the article, a few wouldn't hurt. If there ever should be a theory section, that's the section where our current speculation is. No more, and any further speculation should come into the talk page for filtering. There are some things even the stars cannot tell me. • TroisNyxÉtienne — 13:07, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Enthusiasm? Keep it up? Is it me, or have you forgotten Master Eraqus? That, my dear, is the result of "trying to keep up enthusiasm." Everyone got all excited like, and it turned into a shitstorm. And don't you DARE say I started it all... If anything, you all got to thinking straight afterwards. Let's not have an encore.

I'd also like to bring something up; Vanitas and the other characters from Birth By Sleep are from a game that has yet to be released, meaning that a lot of these questions will be answered during the course of the game. There is no reason to speculate on the articles until the game has been released and some questions answered. Basically, a speculation section in any article about a game that has yet to be released is pointless, as the release of the game will likely render the contents of the section moot. LapisScarab 03:24, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

...NeutraVega, please don't engage in denial. We put up an article based on the best information we had, backed up by multiple sites, and you raised a shit-fulled temper tantrum. Certain editors over-reacted to your calls that we report nothing at all, but the blame for the spectacle rests squarely on your shoulders.

Here's a hint - information translated by those of our editors who are fluent in Japanese is only unofficial, not "groundless specualtion".Glorious CHAOS! 09:59, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Don't insult my godamn intelligence; I know full well the difference between speculation and unofficial albeit factual information. The shit that was in there was outright crap straight from KHInsider forums. That's not to say all of it was. But a fair chunk? Damn straight. Like I said...no encore performances. Let's stick to facts. Intriguing trivia, sure. Speculation? lolno

We're going the best we can. And besides, half of that speculation is made by anonymous viewers or other users who are still new here. They don't know better. Just lay off.--NinjaSheik 17:43, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

...You complained about the name (and that only, looking at the page). Which was translated straight from the katakana, and was checked against multiple Japanese news sites.

Besides his name, nothing on this version of the page was unconfirmed. And that's the version of the page that we had while you were whining. And with respect to the final confirmed name, your tantrum amounted to saying we should delete all information and pictures we had just because the name ended up having a "u" shifted over one place. Wow, what a huge difference.Glorious CHAOS! 05:29, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* That's right. I complained. And I was RIGHT. I TOLD you to wait until an official romanization was out. But you were dead set that you were right... I fail to see why you would even bring that up, and use it against me considering you were wrong...

Small note: If you weren't so massively in denial you would notice that I was not "dead set that I was right", and even posted a possible alternate name based on what the Japanese sites were saying. I was, however, dead set on not deleting an entire article on a character just because his name might have a "u" shifted.

But! Oh my goodness, you've just shown me the light. Of course we should delete an entire page worth of information because the initial translation was not as intended, even if was sensible. In fact, we should delete every single piece of information that hasn't been translated by it's original creators. Hell, how do we even know that the Final Mix games even exist? They haven't been released in English, so their existence must be ridiculous speculation.

Thank you so, so much, for making our fallacy clear. That's the wrap everyone! NeutraVega's explained why we should deny the existence of the Final Mix material!Glorious CHAOS! 07:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Well said ! TNÉ _{En avant Bravo !} 13:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Too much QQing going on... does it really matter if we speculate or not? --Black Judgment of Guyviroth 13:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Note to self: Never make Kryten mad.... Well, there needs to be a medium with our speculation. Too much speculation is bad for the article but having some isn't terrible. - HeartOfOblivion 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Ha, if you ask me, every released bit of information is bound to have speculation in its early stages. I know quite a bit of PR and journalism theory to actually say this. There's no stopping the people from speculation. But that doesn't mean that we have to be flamed for it. Which reminds me, there's another user who found that the speculation was wrong (his guess was right), but took it very gracefully. TNÉ _{En avant Bravo !} 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

i dont think ther is. just as long as u tell that its speculation...by putting it in a speculation section *cough cough* -mr.XeroXero

EXACTLY, but if we do put in one, we have to limit the number of speculation bits just like we did for Xion, Ven, Terra and Aqua. TNÉ _{En avant Bravo !} 14:00, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Yes!! even if its limited i dont mind. i rly do like to read what other ppl think n stuff.

I suppose that could work so long was we regulate the speculation, but I think we should wait until after Birth By Sleep comes out. That way, more questions can be answered and the speculation section can be for the unanswered questions. It'll be more organized. LapisScarab 02:17, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

My thoughts exactly. TNÉ _{je t'♥ mélancolie !} 02:42, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm... i agree. itd also keep the Speculation down i guess since more questions WILL be answered. that way it wont tic anyone off if they thunk thers "too much". -mr.xeroxero

Voice Actor

hey, judgementday, i'm not saying you're wrong, (i've definitely heard the voice before, though i'm bad at placing it...) just show us where you found out it was Miyu Irino, and it'll be settled, but unless there is a verified and checkable source, you can't leave his name on the page --Neumannz 21:06, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? I know I've heard his voice before, but I just can't make that connection, like you said. Didn't Nomura say that both Vanitas' and Eraqus' voice actors are 'difficult to hire'?

ah, the voice of riku? that i think i can hear now... still, is the VA officially Mamoru Miyano? --Neumannz 21:55, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

It sounds like Miyano, sure, but we're not putting anything up until it's announced.—Urutapu 22:01, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

and that's just fine with me --Neumannz 22:09, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

OK, I apologize. However, the reason why I kept undoing many of the changes was because when I got on, I noticed that someone had listed Miyu Irino as the VA. I assumed that was official, and so I decided to make sure that this page kept it that way.

Well, I guess this is what I get for assuming. Again, I'm sorry. User:JudgmentDay95

It's nothing personally against you, I was just pretty annoyed that by the time I had gotten to the page like four people had already posted Irino/Miyano.—Urutapu 23:51, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* @Urutapu: Yeah. Okiayu and Toyoguchi haven't exactly been announced either...yet, here we are! But that said...I know I've heard his voice several times before myself... But there's NO WAY in hell it's Mamoru Miyano or Miyu Irino...

Removed from page

"Secret video" synopses are not canon, and should be restricted to a mention in trivia or lead that "so and so appeared in this secret video". Right now, a few minutes of video barely featuring Vanitas takes up 80% of this article, which is weak.

This info should be integrated with the main BBS video page.Glorious CHAOS! 05:48, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

It should also be written competently before being reinserted into article space.Glorious CHAOS! 05:49, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you just add/delete the video article? You don't need to remove the whole thing. Cococrash11

Because it's not canon, and we have no idea where it fits into the character's history. It shouldn't be on this page at all.Glorious CHAOS! 10:05, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? Then by all means, remove articles with the ASAS and Deep Dive summary too, since they contain material not represented in the games either.

What the heck are you talking about? Vanitas's orgin and first apearnce is Birth By Sleep video just like Master Xehanort. WHy don't you include video in the article? Master Xehnort, Terra,Ventus, and Aqua had one to. Cococrash11

The Story section is supposed to be a chronological summary of that character's plot. Consider - including the video synopsis 1) claims that it is canon, which it is not, and 2) claims that they did the video before they did their actual story. For example, the way Deep Dive was placed for Riku, it claimed he fought Roxas before going to Castle Oblivion, which is wrong.

At most, there should be a mention that "X appeared in secret video Y" in the lead or something. However, those videos ARE NOT CANON, and should only be summarized on their own article.Glorious CHAOS! 23:54, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Wait a second you're saying the the video isn't canon but you don't want to include in it? What the heck look at Terra,Ventus,Aqua, Master Xehanort, and Mickey Mouse they both had the Birth By Sleep video and The Gathering video and they didn't erase it like in Vanitas. In this page why can't Vanitas had both? Vanitas isn't included The Gathering is one thing and he dosen't appear in it I understand but his fisrt appearance is in the Birth By Sleep video. So why isn't Birth By Sleep video article mention in Vanitas? If the video article for Vanitas is too big just make it small enough to not watse space, or just include everything in BBS video about Vanitas in the Vanitas page. I thought you guys want to improve articles in this wikia not erase the truth? Beside you're saying that the Riku in Deep Dive is before he went to Catsle Oblivion who told you that? This happen after KHCOM and 358/2 Days not between KHI and KHCOM. cococrash11

Please don't be an idiot.

1. The placement of the Deep Dive video in Riku's article would be between KH and KHCom, which is incorrect.
2. It's specifically not truth, it's un-fucking-canon.

If you're unwilling to listen at all to what the other person is saying, then just shut up, please.Glorious CHAOS! 13:23, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Shut up! What you did dosne't make any sense. Beside the secret video deep dive is after KH1 FInal Mix and not the story line but the game producction history you idiot. Cococrash11

I will say it again.

THE STORY SECTIONS ARE NOT JUST DESCRIPTIONS OF WHAT THE CHARACTER HAS APPEARED IN. They are descriptions, in the style of timelines, of what happens to the character during the storyline of the series.

As placed, the secret video synopses claim that the characters did those things immediately after KH1 and KH2. That is nonsense. Riku did not defeat Roxas immediately after KH1 - he waited two games to do it.

This is pretty much exactly what I said two comments ago, and the fact that you're rambling on about production history (when I've been emphasizing the CANON STATUS as the important point) only shows that you're spending your time complaining instead of actually listening. I know damn well when the videos were produced; however, they are NOT CANON, and DO NOT FIT INTO THE CHARACTER'S PLOT SYNOPSIS, any more than the trading card game does. That is why I suggested that the information pertaining to the secret videos be covered specifically on that video's page, and to only have a link to it here.

In the future, instead of complaining in what is barely English, please reread the first person's comment so they don't have to repeat it multiple times.Glorious CHAOS! 20:11, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

As for your complaining on my talk page - if you can prove that those are the plots for those games, and not just people assuming things from the small snippets we do know, feel free to add them back in. As that is currently impossible, since the game isn't finished, I kind of doubt you'll be able to. As those pages were, they were making false claims, which is unacceptable.Glorious CHAOS! 20:20, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Guardian Soul Talk. — Don't I even warrant a hello? It's such a shame. The Organization used to be the rope that bound us together. - 20:37, October 31, 2009 (UTC) Okay, the concept videos are confirmed to be nothing more than concepts. That means they're non-cannon. It's beyond me why people on this wiki love to continue pointless debates about keeping unnecessary information on pages. All concept video information will be kept on those articles only. End of story.

Should We Consider Secret Videos As Appearances Per Say?

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* I'm bound to get heat for bringing this up, but then again, I always get heat for anything. The consequences of being a logical contributor... Anyways, I've noticed on this page, Vanitas has the KHIIFM+ emblem on top of the page which directs to whatever game the character appears in. But...when you think about it, Vanitas never actually appeared in ANY variation of KHII... At best, it's the secret video, but should that really count as an IN-GAME appearance..., as opposed to say Ven making a cameo in Days, or Aqua's armor showing up in FM+. Vanitas never really popped up anywhere....so, I'm just kind of curious if that should really stand as it is.

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? Well, technically, he made his first appearance in the secret video, so I say keep it. And I do believe the phrase is 'Per se', not 'Per say'. :P

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* I guess...but what about all the other articles? It's inconsistent as a fuckall. Once again, I think this is just a case of the jitter fever where a new character gets introduced, and everyone is all excited as hell to cram in as much stuff in as possible... Also...it works either way, "per say" and "per se." Neither is incorrect. :P

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? Well, then, I stand corrected.

KrytenKoro - Most bears were content to live their lives, mauling and eating one, maybe two humans at most. "Mass-murder," as the bears always said, "is for the sharks." But not Barry. Barry was different. He knew that one day, he would kill ALL of the humans. This is the inspiring, tear-jerking story of one bear and the dream he dared to dream. TALK - I had not noticed that. It should be removed, as Nomura has categorically said that the secret videos are uncanon. You're definitely right about that. "per se (also misspelled as "per say", "persay" or "persai")" As for "always get heat for anything" - no, you get heat when you act like an arrogant ass. Don't do it, and you'll get along fine.

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - One day, the light-it will be ours, and it will bring us together. Til then, I'll be in your heart... Oh, boy......

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* "Persai?" ...Who in the world came up with that one? Sounds like some bizarre Chinese Prince of Persia MMO ripoff...

Sephiroth? Irrelevant.

Vanitas being similar to Sephiroth is completely irrelevant. When I used to say irrelevant things it would get deleted. This is as well.

Well, the fact that Nomura makes some stupid joke about voicing him doesn't either. As I had said, let staff decide. Trivia is filled with the irrelevant. Accept it. - EternalNothingnessXIII 21:37, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? Hence, 'trivia'.

Eternal Nothingness XIII - Ven, Aqua... I'll find some way to make things right. TALK - This light... it's so warm. — 21:42, November 6, 2009 (UTC) Maggosh, are you on MY side in this? And to the other guy (can't remember your name atm), things are only "irrelevant and delete-worthy" when in the actual ARTICLE! Look around at the countless other pages. Tons of redundant facts galore.

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? Yes, I am, indeed, on your side. Merely emphasizing the fact that trivia has no correlation.

Using the exact same quote as another character designed by the same person is not irrelevant, though.

Anon, if someone disagrees with your edit, you discuss it on the talk page, you don't get into an edit war, or you'll get temporarily blocked. If you are unable to have patience in a discussion, then you're not actually discussing, you're just demanding you get your way. That's not how it works.

EO, the wiki is not ruled by the staff. A better reason for reverting the anon's edit was that he hadn't discussed it or given an edit reason, which is what needs to be done when removing content (unless blatantly vandalism). But if you two can come to a cordial decision on your own, that is much preferable than dragging the staff into it.

I've changed it to something that uses the most recent use of that quote by a Nomura character, in what I feel is a more likely analogy. However, it's still a very common thing for the bad guy to say, so it would be fair to remove it if there is still contriversy.Glorious CHAOS! 22:23, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I realized the potential edit war. That was why I mentioned staff. I know how things work. Sephiroth has more to do with than Garland, however. We could phrase it as :

• Vanitas/Sephiroth thing...(insert Garland connection here)

That way, we add even MORE redundancy. Sephiroth has the plot connection, and Garland has the character creator connection. - EternalNothingnessXIII 22:27, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

...

This is a battle quote utilized by Sephiroth, another man who turns to darkness and abandons his old allegiences in the Final Fantasy series, similar to how this Keyblade warrior falls to the dark and leaves the Keyblade masters of the Realm of Light.

Replace "Sephiroth" with "Garland" and you still have a true statement. Hell, Garland turns more literally to darkness than Sephiroth, who just throws a mega-tantrum. And Garland literally leaves the masters of Light, and is a parallel to the "Warrior of Light" (coughcough Ventus coughcough). Then, we have that Sephiroth has already appeared as a totally separate character in KH, negating any possibility for him to be Vanitas.

If we keep the trivia note at all, Garland and not Sephiroth should be used, I think. There's just no way that a Vanitas-Sephiroth connection would "mean" anything, since Vanitas is explicitly not Sephiroth.Glorious CHAOS! 22:37, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

There's no way he'd be Garland though. I'd say the only fair thing we do is come up with some way to combine the two. They're both right. - EternalNothingnessXIII 22:40, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I honestly think that using Sephiroth is stretching it, though, since Shinra was never the paragon of light, and Sephiroth didn't so much go straight to Darkness as just decide that everyone else was evil.

I guess it is somewhat relevant in that Sephiroth uses the quote within the KH series, but it's still pushing it to relate Vanitas to him, I feel.Glorious CHAOS! 22:49, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I know, Kryten, and I respect your opinion. Don't get me wrong. We really don't know how Vanitas tursn to darkness, or how/why/if he even does. I think we should stick with Sephiroth, as he's actually in KH. As I said, I think we could somehow mention Garland, as well. - EternalNothingnessXIII 22:52, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Well this topic takes the cake for ultimate pointlessness... Do I need to repeat what I've been trying to say past few weeks? Don't add what isn't necessary! It's really not that critical...

If your sum total of "contribution" is to come in and say "Look at me!", then please go the fuck away. You are annoying as all get out.Glorious CHAOS! 00:06, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

I agreed! You've been nothing, but trouble lately! You're worst than everyone at school I know! What the heck is your problem, anyway!?! I'm sick of you! Seeing you strut around like you're always right! OUI'NA YH YCCRUMA!--NinjaSheik 00:10, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Calling someone an asshole, even in another language should not be tolerated. NinjaSheik don't do it again and apologize as your intervention in this discussion was pointless and rude. --—YerMom _{is feeling jolly} 00:22, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Fine, I'm sorry for cursing. But, that doesn't chnage how I feel...--NinjaSheik 00:25, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

One thing is cursing during a conversation and another completely different thing is directly insulting someone. Some people are fine with cursing and some aren't but what is NOT tolerated is a direct attack towards a user. That's exactly why we ban trolls who blank out talk pages and why we don't encourage editors to leave hate messages in said troll's talk pages along with the warnings. --—YerMom _{is feeling jolly} 00:29, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Okay...Sorry.--NinjaSheik 00:33, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Rofl, ok ok. I'm sorry. Vanitas is exactly like Garland. You're right. :) I'll fix that right up.

Somehow, I just don't see the connection. Can you please explain how Vanitas, a character who has not had that many lines of dialoge, is similar to Garland, a character who has very little personality. Ultima 08:20, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

NV: no one was arguing over content with you. I was asking you to just leave, because you are completely insufferable in your inability to just discuss the article with others without calling other editors idiots and generally acting like a know-it-all. Plus, the whole vandalizing the article to be facetious.

Ultima: It's a connection that's barely there, but if people want to mention that shared line of dialogue, Garland is the most recent character Nomura was involved with that used that line, and he does have a similar basic plot. However, it's really nothing at all - really, it's just that any connection with Sephiroth isn't useful. It's perfectly acceptable, at least from my point of view, to remove the trivia line completely, because it's a very generic "evil rival" thing to say.Glorious CHAOS! 08:30, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Now, what is it with you? Why do you always have to make everything so personal? Do you even know how childish that is?

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - One day, the light-it will be ours, and it will bring us together. Til then, I'll be in your heart... Can someone...Um, explain to me about that triva that was added by NeutraVega? It was speculation and I thought we hated speculation, so...Oh, never mind.

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Apparently not. I too thought it was pointless to add Garland, but if any of the above posts proved, we MUST have Garland in the article. So I added it. Then they deleted it. Lol. This wiki is so insensibly awesome. No one makes any sense!

KrytenKoro - "That's when we bumped into Hannity. Sean Hannity. See the thing about this dude is, at first he's fair, right? And you're like "Wow!" But then BOOM. The dude's balanced, too. And you're like, HOLY SHIT." TALK - Eh. It basically boils down to "the annoyance of having to add any info to the wiki that you would have if you were still here" <<< "the annoyance of having to deal with your unhelpful bile on the talk pages every other day". After all, why should I tolerate your attacks on other editors when I can just do all of your job myself for exponentially less aggravation?

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* That'd make sense if you were doing my job as your job without any aggravation. But the fact remains, as long as I'm making edits, adding images, and fixing things up here and there, you aren't doing it. I am. So the aggravation remains. But it's okay. I can still be your friend. :)

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - One day, the light-it will be ours, and it will bring us together. Til then, I'll be in your heart... Um...Did I say or did anything wrong...?

And from your edits, the only contributions I can see are small edits to the trivia. I think I can safely say that if you were not able to be here, the trivia would be safely handled by anyone else. As I told you a while back, if you want to claim that you're helpful, do it without trying to make the other editors miserable. You aren't the golden boy you think you are, and if you want to be respected, you can't have that attitude.Glorious CHAOS! 01:43, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Vanitas = Leon

Before I begin, sorry if this isn't formated right. ANYWAYS, I was thinking the other day about Vanitas' true identity and I just so happen to be reading Leon's bio, it says that Leon changed his name to escape his past, well maybe Leon was ashamed of what he did with Master Xehenort and changed his name. Plus look at the end of Leon's gunblade, there's a key chain that Leon could've modified to turn his Keyblade into a gunblade. Leon would be about 15 during the events of Birth By Sleep, puting him around the age of Terra, Aqua, and Ventus. I know this theory is a little shaky, but I'd like your thoughts. Ookami Hitomatome 21:25, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Nitrous X Merry Christmas! — I have identified the scent. It is...Christmas! "When did that happen? You were always terrified of Santa before-" Well, for one thing, Leon's former name was Squall. Plus, he's a Final Fantasy character, so I don't think they'd use him in that kind of role. Sorry to burst your theory bubble.

I know his name was Squall, but he could've changed his to hide is identity. Plus he's the only character right now that could be him, they say that Vanitas' identity would be reveled at the end of Birth By Sleep. Ookami Hitomatome 22:11, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

What he means is that the story explicitly says that Leon used to be named Squall, but changed his name due to shame he felt for failing during the evacuation of Hollow Bastion, not some unspecific darkness in his past. Most likely due to the group losing Cloud, or some other FF character. While Leon sure knows more about the Keyblade than is reasonable, it is completely possible he learned it just from the Ansem Reports (which they do claim, at one point).128.210.26.20 22:16, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Nitrous X Merry Christmas! — I have identified the scent. It is...Christmas! "When did that happen? You were always terrified of Santa before-" Yeah, but you're forgetting the whole "Don't use FF characters that way" thing.

Yea...true.... OK. I'm turning this post into a "Find Vanitas' Identity" thing. Who could possibly be Vanitas besides any FF character?

Ookami Hitomatome 22:27, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Vanitas is probably the Darkness in Ventus' heart or something... ^BLUER一番 16:12, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

Vanitas's identity

I honestly dont care if they dont reavel who he is, that mask thing looks awesome! imo Vanitas is the Young version of Xahnort who was in kingdom hearts, he probobly gose insane with power, takes his masters name, and at the end of the game is found by ansem the wise.--Foutlet 20:47, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

It couldnt be Xehenort because he was working with Ansem the Wise

Ookami Hitomatome 00:01, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Possibly Vanitas could be: Ansem the wise. Terra's Emboiment of darkness [Xehanort] (like cloud/Sephorth). It's not Leon, Leon doesnt make that important relevance in Kigndom Hearts series. Not as much as terra and DIZ

Could be Riku's Dad

Could be Terra's Mirror of himself... it could possibly be what terra TRULY is...DARKNESS

. That's why Master Xehanort asks him to try and defeat Vanitas because he wants to test Terra to see if he can really beat darkness itself. or will he eventually succumb to darkness..............

Venkix - Having no heart, no emotions. It's Better this way. TALK - Open your heart. - Hmm... your theory could be possibly correct.

Vanitas's voice actor

In KH13.com it said Vanitas has the same voice as Sora. --Cococrash11 21:24, December 19, 2009 (UTC)Cococrash11

naaaaah it can't be

People saying "Oh, he sounded like so'n'so" is not actual confirmation. Is there an interview, a magazine article, was it mentioned on the actor's website? Is there anything that's an actual source, and not just people trying to recognize a voice from a trailer? HarpieSiren 22:14, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

I don't think there is anything saying that they share a voice but Vanitas does sound a bit like Sora, only older but seeing all the mystery surrounding Vanitas we'll probably have to wait until the game comes out in a couple of weeks.--Masgrande 01:30, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

Xemnas limit = All VANITY

Coincidence ? Vanitas = Vanity ... We do know Vanitas has a connection to Ven... Maybe his fight against Terra made him forget everything... maybe Terra's essence and his will fuse somehow during Terra's sacrifice in order to get rid of him or something... thus creating the empty shell Xehanort. The story is forced to end badly for Terra, so either he becomes Xehanort, either he dies trying to kill Xehanort or his apprentice. But I think he's responsible for the "new" Xehanort.--Ataradesu 01:55, December 21, 2009 (UTC) >

Master Aqua - Set my friend's heart free ! TALK - 22:04, January 7, 2010 (UTC) I hate to say it but I really disagree with the theory that Terra is connected to Xenahort.I could be wrong but I think that the whole hair connection isn't really anything but a coincadince. The time and facts it would take to prove that theory would probably take more than hair similarities, knowing that it would be a big connection. Another pont is that of Vanitas. The trailers show that Terra seeks possibly to destroy Vanitas knowing that Xenahort told him how Vanitas needed to be destroyed. Yet I think teh secret of Vanitas lyes within Ven's hands. Vanitas wants to make Ven stronger, which would lead to the possibility that if anyone was connected with Vanitas, it was Ven. Another point of mine is that ten years ago, heartless didn't exist. We still don't know if Unversed are capable of what the Heartless can do, therefore, there probably wern't any nobodies. Lastly, Xenahort's HEART was taken. If Xenahort was of any part of Terra, he wouldn't have been able to produce a nobody and heartless. Yet he did.

KHIIFM

Eternal Nothingness XIII - But why? Help me understand, Master Xehanort. What is it that I have failed to learn? TALK - What? How did I— What did I do? What did YOU do? — 00:33, December 30, 2009 (UTC) What became of the story information on Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix's secrect ending? The other pages have them... last time I checked. Or is this redundant/pointless?

KrytenKoro - You should have figured out whether bodies age without their hearts, Nomura. TALK - They shouldn't have them. Only the (video) page should have that summary.

HeartFallout Talk! — If I had a dollar for every time I broke my PS2.. I would still be very poor. — 03:57, December 31, 2009 (UTC) Honestly, whoever Vanitas is, He seems real friggin' awsome from the trailers.

Not Xehanort's Apprentice

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA In the new trailer, Vanitas is spoken about as a threat that appeared, not a keyblade apprentice that went rogue. is it possible that xehanort and Vanitas are just allies instead of master and apprentice?

I think it's Xehanort's plan in order to gain the trios trust. 80.101.62.155 21:45, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

Not Xehanort

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— 00:37, January 2, 2010 (UTC) I think that we can cross out the theory of Vanitas being the Xehanort we know. We know that Xehanort had white hair and white eyebrows, and in the newly released picture of Vanitas's eye, he has black eyebrows! does that mean that he isn't Xehanort? I'd say so!

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? Isn't it possible for it to change?

Xabryn - I don't care if you're real!You're not better! TALK - It's nice to have darkness on my side.{{{time}}} we kepp with the theory of Terra being Xehanort and his eyes and hair color are also differents(I feel bad for disagreeing with your theory, i don't want Vanitas to be Xehanort but these are the facts)

An idea for Vanitas' Appearance.

Is there a familiar face under that Daft Punk helmet? You decide.

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— 08:57, January 5, 2010 (UTC) I really doubt that they'll put in yet another Roxas :P but Vanitas's eyebrows resemble Sora's a lot, and since Vanitas sounds similar to Sora (a bit older though)... one can only wonder...

JFHavoc Talk to Me! — I once took an IQ test and got a score of over 9000. You're all morons. — 09:01, January 5, 2010 (UTC) I hope he doesn't look like Roxas. I think Ven looking like Roxas is ridiculous enough. And if he looks like Sora, that's just too many look-a-likes in one game for me. Amazing observation though.

I'm really quite curious, where is it ever said that eye is Vanitas's? We need confirmation that it's supposed to be Vanitas. 24.165.55.99 00:50, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

Xabryn - I don't care if you're real!You're not better! TALK - It's nice to have darkness on my side.Xabryn 01:57, January 6, 2010 (UTC) if you see the vid you will see that the eye is Vanitas's, the eye style from KH original characters are pretty much the same, about the hair well there is more than one character that could have a hair like this

Venkix - Having no heart, no emotions. It's Better this way. TALK - Open your heart. - I agree with JFhavoc. There's enough look a likes already. But that was a great theory though..

Master Xehanort Talk to Me! You need to see it with your own eyes. When you stop being yourself. Show me your strength! Personally, I think that Ven and Vanitas are unrelated, it's more of the Sora-Riku relatiinship, as Vanitas says he needs to make Ven stronger. Therfore, they couldn't possibly be the same. Look at the new Famitsu scan. Vanitas reaches out to Ventus, reflecting Riku and Sora in the opening of KH2. They aren't the same person. End of.

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? I'm assuming you're Grace Assassin on the KHinsider forums.

I have seen the trailer, in fact it must be about 10 times by now. But I fail to see any proof that the eye is Vanitas's. Unless it's stated in an interview that came out with the trailer or something, then so far the idea that it's his eye is speculation. 24.165.55.99 03:52, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

KingdomKeyDarkside - Why? Why do you have the Keyblade? TALK - 'Cause I'm not a total sap like you. — 04:12, January 7, 2010 (UTC) As somebody said before, where is the proof that it is Vanitas' eye? @Xabryn show some proof. The video only shows a picture of ven with a golden eye over it. it could be anyone (not literally.) Vanitas and Ventus are probably linked somehow, but we'll just have to wait to find out. OOH! Just thought of something awesome! MasterXehanort stated that Vanitas/Ventus is a riku/sora-like relationship. There really isn't anything special about Sora during BBS as far as we know. What if both Vanitas and Ventus were "erased" and found their way into Sora and Riku? Or they merged with the two somehow. (we already know there is a connection between sora and ven, look at roxas.) Or is it possible that Vanitas is an unversed? Vanitas also has a lot of the same mannerisms as Riku (battle stance, gestures) same with ventus and Sora (Quote: My friends are my power is spoken by both of them). And aqua will have something to do with Kairi. And Terra will go on to be Xehanort as we know him. (This is all theory on my part.)

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? The video does not just show a picture of Ven with a gold eye over it. It is Vanitas' eye behind his helmet.

No, the trailer just shows Ven with a golden eye before him. You're guessing that it belongs to Vanitas, but that doesn't mean it's undeniably his. Show osme proof, like a developer quote or something. Because the trailer doens't make it clear who the eye belongs to. 24.165.55.99 20:41, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

You guys are retards. The scans are comparing Vanitas' eye and hair placement with that of Roxas/Ventus and then with Sora's. Roxas/Ventus is a no go, but Sora is a match. And famatsu has shown in scans that the eye belongs to Vanitas.

To the IP: You can see parts of Vanitas's helmet in that image, and the immediate scene is Ventus looking at Vanitas. It is so obviously Vanitas's eye that it is ridiculous.Glorious CHAOS! 21:54, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Master Aqua - Set my friend's heart free ! TALK - 22:11, January 7, 2010 (UTC) I think that Vanitas will resemble mostly Ven, since that is the upmost possibility as to whom he is connected to. As for SOra, Sora is almost definantly connected to Ven, therefore it could be of them both. PLus, if there is supposed to be THE kayblade weilders right then as well for both light and dark, and since mickey is still in training at the time, the one for the side of dark could be Vanitas.

KingdomKeyDarkside - Why? Why do you have the Keyblade? TALK - 'Cause I'm not a total sap like you. — 01:31, January 8, 2010 (UTC) Sorry, I didn't really look at the image that well. I see now that it is Vanitas' eye. I was foucsed on they eye and Ventus, and I didn't realize that it was a reflection off of his helmet. Once again, my bad.

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— 23:44, January 8, 2010 (UTC) *SPOILER* Turns out, you were right! it is a black haired Sora under that helmet! He is somehow made from Ventus's darkness... or something like that...

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? Pardon my French, but Aw, fuck you Xigbar! >:(

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? Argh! I can't believe they were that un-creative (assuming that is a word)!

Vanitas' identity

I think you all are wrong. Vanitas is meant to be a new character. He is not a character from the older kh series. He is most certainly not Sora or Ven, or Xehanort. There is supposed to not be aany connection between him and an older character.

Master Xehanort Talk to Me! The Keyblades and the legend of the Keyblade War has been passed down to us. Yes, let your angry heart be stained in darkness! — 21.01 Yes, Vanitas is a new character. I agree on that. But he has a link to Riku, as he uses Riku's battle stance. And, as Xehanort's apprentice, he must have a link to the other Xehanort. In Kingdom Hearts, all Worlds are connected, therefore all characters are connected. I don't believe that Vanitas is entirely new. He has links to other characters. He may be Xehanort. He may not be. But all will be revealed soon. We need only watch and wait.

Yumekai627 - Then I shall make you see... That your hopes are nothing! Nothing but a mere illusion! TALK - You brought this upon yourself! Let us not underestimate him as a major character. Testuya continuously stresses his importance, by saying stuff like, "His identity will be revealed" leaving fans to speculate and wonder.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? I'm fairly certain that Tetsuya Nomura has directly stated that all the characters from the BbS video (i.e. MX, Vanitas, Terra, Ventus, and Aqua) were new characters. Unless he was talking in some Obi-Wan Kenobi, "technically true" way, which I doubt. Not much point inspeculating anymore anyway, since the game is a mere three days away from release (tack on a day or two for info to come out).

Yumekai627 - Then I shall make you see... That your hopes are nothing! Nothing but a mere illusion! TALK - You brought this upon yourself! But if that's true what happened to Xehanort? It is the Xehanort's memories part of the series, I think that one of them must be Xehanort, unless he's talking about some big alteration

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? That's sort of what I meant by "Obi-Wan Kenobi way of talking". He may have meant that one of the characters in the secret video changes so much personality and appearance-wise that they are basically a different person. I hope that isn't what he meant though, because I would like to see how they answer the mysteries without resorting to a cliched plot twist like that.

Master Xehanort Talk to Me! You need to see it with your own eyes. When you stop being yourself. Show me your strength! — 20.06 I think that Xehanort is connected to the story, but probably not through Vanitas or Terra. Hell, maybe not even through Master Xehanort. Besides, with the game two days away, we really don't need to read too much into Vanitas. Also, I noticed that Terra is looking for a 'friend' who lost is heart (A Nobody?) who could be Vanitas, as when it is said, Terra is holding Ven. That rules out Ven losing his heart. And Ven and Vanitas being part of Sora and Riku? It's a thought, but unlikely. Besides these 'new' characters probably have some influence or role in the series we know, in a way that will probably leave us gobsmacked.

>

Master Aqua - Set my friend's heart free ! TALK - 22:18, January 7, 2010 (UTC) GO OBI-WAN!!! sorry, big Star Wars fan. I think that the Xenahort we know of today is connected to --Xenahort. I don't know if I'm remembering this clearly, but I think that when he came to Ansem the Wise, his memory was gone all except for his name. He also remembered he was from some war. He could be from a character we have no idea about from all the way back to the keyblade wars. Or he was remembering wrong. He WAS in a battle, in the middle of teh place the keyblade wars took place. Plus, Xenahort (BBS) was pretty much obsessed with two things: Kingdom Hearts and the Keyblade wars. THis could be entirerly wrong it is just something that could be thought about.

>

Master Aqua - Set my friend's heart free ! TALK - 22:24, January 7, 2010 (UTC) About your idea for the losing heart thing, Kairi lost her heart and she was in the same state Ven was in. PLus, heartless wern't around at the time, so Ven could have just gone into that state Kairi was in. Another thing is that Vanitas is the enemy, adn Terra AND Aqua ask for their friends heart back, I think also when Ven knows he was losing his heart, or when he awoke, that was when he was asking Aqua to erase him. Seeing as that is pretty much impossible if you have a heart, maybe for a little while while losing his heart, he was in a nobody state. Aqua was also almost definantly not friends with Vanitas anyway. She had no idea who he was, she fights him alot, it could have been him she was asking for her friends heart back from, adn he took her down!

Vanitas is almost certainly an Unversed:

Vanitas: a type of symbolic work of art especially associated with Northern European still life painting in Flanders and the Netherlands in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, though also common in other places and periods. The word is Latin, meaning "emptiness" and loosely translated corresponds to the meaninglessness of earthly life and the transient nature of vanity...Vanitas themes were common in medieval funerary art, with most surviving examples in sculpture. By the 15th century these could be extremely morbid and explicit, reflecting an increased obsession with death and decay also seen in the Ars moriendi, Danse Macabre and the overlapping motif of the Memento mori.

Glorious CHAOS! 15:16, January 7, 2010 (UTC) >

Master Aqua - Set my friend's heart free ! TALK - 22:31, January 7, 2010 (UTC) That is a very good asumption! THough I still believe him to be connected to Ven, it could still happen! Did we see Vanitas before Ven starts losing his heart? Ven could have been losing his heart, while Xneahort was gathering all the peices to make his evil little apprentice. Since Ven had light in his heart, Xenahort could have used some of that light from his heart to give Vanitas the ability to weild the keyblade! Yeah I have random outbursts of ideas, well, randomly. But that could be really close as to unveiling Vanitas's identity!

KingdomKeyDarkside - Dance, water, dance! TALK - Hey, you guys are looking lively. — 01:34, January 8, 2010 (UTC) considering this is Kingdom Hearts, I wouldn't put that out of the question. very nice find!

Venkix - Having no heart, no emotions. It's Better this way. TALK - Open your heart. - Well his identity has already been revealed. Its already on HeartStation.org

Regarding The Spoilers

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* So the speculative nonsense starts to pop up again; as legit as they may appear, I honestly don't trust 2ch worth a lick for this sort of information, among early players. I think it's a very, very wise idea to lock up as many BBS entries and just wait it out until the cutscenes themselves are posted online. AKA, reliable sources. The shit is gonna not just hit the fan, but destroy it when more spoilers start pouring out. It's probably a good idea to control it before that happens. And it's already gearing up...

KrytenKoro - Pinocchio with his nose attached to the trigger of a rifle, which points at his face as he says, "I want to live!" TALK - Okay, same policy as last time - no unmarked story spoilers. Anyone posting those gets a warning. Names and items only. Furthermore, I'd like to say - I really don't like the misassembled "stories" that are thrown up there based on snippets from trailers or youtube. I say we leave the story alone until we can get comprehensive information.

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? I agree. Lock up as many BbS articles as possible.

KrytenKoro - "That's when we bumped into Hannity. Sean Hannity. See the thing about this dude is, at first he's fair, right? And you're like "Wow!" But then BOOM. The dude's balanced, too. And you're like, HOLY SHIT." TALK - For three months, I've locked down Aqua, Terra, Ventus, Eraqus, Xehanort, Vanitas, Braig, Dilan, Even, Aeleus, Ienzo, Sai, Lea. If request other any there are, do so I will.

What about the main Birth by Sleep page for the game itself? and Mickey too. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared. — 18:35, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

maggosh Strike backwards... — "That's a nice expression." You're terrified, aren't you? And Xehanort himself. Considering BbS explains Xehanort's existence.

I thought the whole three months thing was gonna change.--Masgrande 23:37, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Voice Actor Credits

The recent live stream had the credits. Vanitas is voiced by Miyu Irino.Sonickenshin 20:22, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Venkix - Having no heart, no emotions. It's Better this way. TALK - Open your heart. - Yes that is correct.

Boss Page

Using the Live Stream gameplay, would it be all right if I created a Vanitas (Boss) page? Or would that be too spoiler-heavy? - EternalNothingnessXIII 23:51, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

We already knew he was a boss, so I don't see why it would be a spoiler.Glorious CHAOS! 00:03, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

So that's a green light? Perfect! I'm also planning to add the Magic Mirror boss page, as well as add a BBS section to Maleficent (Dragon)'s. Should I format the renders of the new characters in the character infobox, or should I just let the thumbnail image float? The only thing we really have is a guess at HP, anyways... - EternalNothingnessXIII 00:08, January 9, 2010 (UTC)