Forum:The Singular "They"

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TheFifteenthMember Yes. You're creepy. I can't say we'll miss you while you're gone, so it'd be best if you did go. We all win that way. — TheFifteenthMember 11:44, 25 August 2015 (UTC) This has caused a lot of edit wars and disagreements before, so I've decided to create a forum and clarify the issue once and for all. The argument is that using "they" as a gender-neutral singular pronoun is incorrect because of course, "they" is a plural pronoun. There's some evidence for that. However, a simple google search shows, me so much more evidence that goes in favour of the singular "they". The issue about warring over grammar is that rules aren't written in stone and language fluctuates all the time. Maybe singular "they" wasn't acceptable in the past (and I say that only for sake of argument, because even Shakespeare used singular "they"), but it's crystal clear that in current times, the trend is with singular "they". Assuming this forum reaches a consensus in favour of singular "they", remember that wikis are collaborative. Each person has their own personal preferences and opinions but when the majority of the community have decided on something, everyone is obliged to act upon it, even if they were part of the minority that got overruled. For example, I'm accustomed to British English but when I edit here, I try to use American spellings as much as possible (although I still forget sometimes) because that's what the wiki has decided on using. So thoughts?

Eternal Nothingness XIII If you don't believe the words I say...then you had best see the truth with your own eyes. — 13:52, 25 August 2015 (UTC) I'm part of that minority who thinks it is wrong to use "they" when referring to singular nouns/subjects. I'm just going to state why: it's been drilled into my head over the course of my many years of schooling. The last time I heard "It's wrong to use 'they' to refer to singular objects, class," was in 2013. Maybe times have changed, and I haven't realized it. Sure, using "they" would probably make things easier sometimes and may sound better on occasion to me, but then I remember what I was taught. When I read "The user summons their Keyblade," on a page, it just drives me nuts and continues to do so until I "correct" it. Of course, this could be partly because of my OCD. I don't know. I'll go with whatever the community goes with. I pray this Wiki makes a good, right decision; keep in mind that if we're going for professionalism here (what I always strive for), then going for something that is grammatically incorrect is not the way to achieve it. However, if times have changed and there is significant proof from official sources to prove that, then by all means, use "they."

Chitalian8 Say... — Only by allowing strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves. Life's little crossroads are often as simple as the pull of a trigger. — 14:52, 25 August 2015 (UTC) I dunno about everyone else, but that link to Oxford you posted, 15th, is looking pretty convincing to me.

Eternal Nothingness XIII Why did the Keyblade choose me? I have to know. — 16:25, 25 August 2015 (UTC) Before this discussion continues further, I'd like to throw this link out there: Click me! It says basically says that because "their" is a pronoun like "he," "she," and "it," it MUST agree in number: CORRECT: If a student parks a car on campus, he or she has to buy a parking sticker. INCORRECT: If a student parks a car on campus, they have to buy a parking sticker. It also says "everybody, anybody, anyone, each, neither, nobody, someone, a person, etc. are singular and take singular pronouns." CORRECT: Everybody ought to do his or her best. INCORRECT: Everybody ought to do their best. CORRECT: Neither of the girls brought her umbrella. INCORRECT: Neither of the girls brought their umbrella. However, the website does state: "Many people find the construction 'his or her' wordy, so if it is possible to use a plural noun as your antecedent and thus you can use 'they' as your pronoun, it may be wise to do so. If you do use a singular noun and the context makes the gender clear, then it is permissible to use just 'his' or 'her' rather than 'his or her.'" While that last bit says using "their" is permissible, please keep the last bit in mind, as well: "If you do use a singular noun and the context makes the gender clear, then it is permissible to use just 'his' or 'her' rather than 'his or her.'"

KrytenKoro - "It is often said that before you die your life passes before your eyes. It is in fact true. It's called living." TALK - Teachers are very, very often wrong. What anyone's teacher told them is irrelevant to our purposes, and to an extent, what past prescriptivists have tried to claim is also generally irrelevant (like the canard about not having prepositions at the end of a sentence, when that has always been common in the English language). We can agree to use one of the professional manuals of style, fine, but even the one quoted says that "they" can be appropriate. If we run into a situation where gender is given by context, fine, but note that that is not the same as a command currently being used by only one character -- ex., the canon gives no indication that Dark Firaga is a male command, even though only male characters have used it so far. (On a personal and absolutely non-binding note, "his/her" "his and her", etc., sound awful to me because they're so long. We don't want our prose to be meandering or purple, and I think it's worth trying to improve the English language and damn the prescriptivists. On a similar track, I think it should be obvious to everyone why we shouldn't default to a specific gender as many MoS often recommend.)