Talk:Dark Figure

Ability section

Should it have an ability section? After all he can disconnect from Xehanort's body and attack for itself--Xabryn 20:33, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

If we haven't gotten an official name from BBS, then I don't think we should be calling it "Guardian". Furthermore, if we can definitely prove that World of Chaos is the guardian, we should just merge the two articles.

However, the end of Kingdom Hearts clearly has the World of Chaos exploding, so it would make it odd that Riku and Ansem resummon the thing in the next three games.Glorious CHAOS! 22:21, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

True, but we have enough evidence on the contrary that it's the "Guardian." If more than half its appearances call it so... True, that is a tad akward, but it's the same Guardian over and over again. You could say its Re:CoM and CoM versions are memory-based considering Ansem was defeated and it was Riku's memories given form that were troubling him. The Guardian, you could say, was merely a side-effect of the Riku-Ansem ordeal, and as for the World of Chaos, it's as much a part of it AND an original character as Xehanort's Heartless is. I see no sense in such a merge, while at the same time, I do. Now I'm confused... - EternalNothingnessXIII 22:27, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

A few stuff on this....

LegoAlchemist - They changed "Snipe Magnet" to "Magnet Grab"? Who's translating this game, 4kids? TALK - Friendships are in direct contravention of mercenary conduct as delineated in your contracts, and on a personal note: I am very, very, disappointed with you. So, I have a couple things I'd like to bring up. First off, in the BBS boss battle against this guy, if you look carefully when the Guardian vanishes to let Xehanort fight with the keyblade, the Guardian sort of becomes the keyblade. Is this noteworthy? Also, I had always thought that the Guardian was the actual Heartless of Xehanort, while the body we see in front of it is Riku's body changed by the darkness. This theory can be backed up with the keyblade thing in BBS: the guardian could be the darkness of Xehanort taking shape. Thoughts?

Eternal Nothingness XIII - You have to be strong. Strength of heart will carry you through the hardest of trials. TALK - What I do, I do for friendship. — 10:49, January 16, 2010 (UTC) It more like "Just fades out of the battle" and appears behind him. And no, no evidence states that the Guardian is a Heartless, Unversed, Nobody, whatever. Xehanort couldn't just scream like a maniac and then have a random Heartless appear behind him. The "body in front of it" is the true Heartless, Xehanort himself.

Regardless of what the Guardian is, it should be mentioned that Terranort is not able to summon it until turning Master Xehanort's Keyblade onto himself and releasing one of the hearts he was harboring within. But it really would make sense for the Guardian to be the Heartless of Master Xehanort. Terranort uses Master Xehanort's Keyblade for two reasons:

1. Terra's armor, the Lingering Sentiment, retains Terra's emotions and Keyblade.

2. Master Xehanort's heart is controlling Terra's body, thus Terranort wields Master Xehanort's Keyblade.

With this in mind, when Terranort turns Master Xehanort's Keyblade onto himself, a heart is very clearly released, Master Xehanort's Keyblade disappears and the Guardian emerges from the Darkness. Once Terranort and the Guardian are defeated, the Guardian begins to fade back into the Darkness, but drags Terra with it. Then Aqua chases them into the dark and uses her Keyblade and armor to send Terra back to the Realm of Light. From there Terra has forgotten his memories and begins a new life as 'Xehanort.' This also would explain why Xehanort can no longer summon a Keyblade:

1. Terra's Keyblade belongs to the Lingering Sentiment.

2. Master Xehanort has become a Heartless.

3. Master Aqua now uses Master Eraqus' Keyblade, whose heart resides within Xehanort.

The last part is what would become of the Guardian, if it truly is Master Xehanort's Heartless. Because Terra's heart was so open to dark influences and Pureblood Heartless are the darkness found within hearts brought to life, perhaps the Guardian slithered back into Terra's body and then into his heart. Here it would sync with the Darkness within Terra's heart so when Xehanort would become a Heartless, the Heartless would be Terra and Master Xehanort's.XYZ. 04:26, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Demonic Saint - Then go talk to a wall... TALK - I dreamt I was a moron - 03:19, March 4, 2010 (UTC) It's all speculation so it doesn't belong to the page EDIT:Also, Sign your comments.

Yeah, there is some speculation, but what we know to be true is that Terranort used Master Xehanort's Keyblade to release a heart from Terra's body, thus causing Xehanort's Keyblade to disappear and the Guardian materialized. This is fact and should be stated on the page.XYZ. 04:29, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

But it isn't revealed, which heart he released, is it?

Game Template

Is the template above the page supposed to be in the chronological order of the story or the order in which the games were release?Masgrande 05:19, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Render

Chitalian8 Say... — Only by allowing strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves. Life's little crossroads are often as simple as the pull of a trigger. — 21:35, August 2, 2010 (UTC) I notice that the picture of the Guardian as part of the World of Chaos is a model from the game, not an official image. Can anyone upload a better image?

Nope.Glorious CHAOS! 21:43, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Chitalian8 Say... — Only by allowing strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves. Life's little crossroads are often as simple as the pull of a trigger. — 21:44, August 4, 2010 (UTC) "Nope" meaning nobody can upload a better image?

maggosh ...the flint is struck. — "Maybe I should punish you after all." "Come on! Show a little backbone!" "Nope" meaning no better official image exists.

Similarities in attacks?

Shouldn't it be safe to say that the two energy balls the Guardian "throws" across the floor at you and coming up from the ground multiple times creating small shockwaves appear in all of BBS, KH1, and both versions of KH:COM? I am SERIOUSLY seeing similarities with these two attacks in all three "incarnations" of the Guardian, regardless of who uses it. Does anyone agree with me? Zack M.173.218.30.240 23:01, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

Check the opening paragraph of the "Abilities" section. Chitalian8 23:10, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

Not only attacks, it is also slightly similar to Darkside. It has the heart-hole in it, and looks like a tinier, upgraded version of it. Keyblade0

Why is it referred to as...

A symbiote? A) That is a Spiderman Universe Term B) It is used in the wrong context anyways... ( So can I go and change it? I would right now but I don't know what to call it. Hige unari 18:21, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

It's a real term. So, no. Not unless you can find a more appropriate term. --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 18:36, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

Heartless or not?

Is there any sure evidence whether or not the Guardian is a Heartless, or just a creature of Darkness?

Because before BBS was released, this thing was called a Heartless, and it does resemble Neoshadows an awful lot, not to mention we do know that Pureblood Heartless existed before Xehanort became Ansem. Where did the idea come from that the Guardian was NOT a Heartless?

I'm just asking out of curiosity. --88.195.19.59 22:27, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

It's obviously a Heartless, it looks like a pureblood and is composed out of the same stuff as one as well as the fact that it has a hollow heart and is attached to a Heartless and a Heartless battleship.--58.7.111.194 11:41, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Same thing, obviously a Heartless cauz it has got the same appearance as the pureblood ones. -- Braviaggron 15:32, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

If it is a Heartless, how come it's never been classified as one in any official media? 97.81.38.40 16:10, 15 November 2014 (UTC) Rex Ronald Rilander

World of Chaos and Heartless

1. Do we have any evidence for the World of Chaos and the guardian being the same? If so, this should just be merged to "World of Chaos". If not, then we shouldn't be implying they are.
2. Why are we claiming this is not a Heartless? It is an integral part of a being that is explicitly a Heartless (Ansem SoD), and Riku can summon it because he contains traces of that Heartless within him. If there's no specific evidence calling it "not a Heartless", then it makes no sense to me to claim it is not. If this is a discussion we've had in the past, can someone link me to it?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 03:43, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

What about its appearance in BBS? --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 05:38, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

It appeared alongside Terra-Xehanort after Xehanort had cast his heart from his body. If the Secret Ansem Reports make any sense, they'd indicate that that means he became a Heartless, right? I mean, it's made of darkness and has a huge heart-shaped hole in his chest, and always appears symbiotically with Xehanort's cast-off heart, or those harboring it."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 07:25, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

I agree that this thing is a Heartless, it is clearly not a part of Terranort, as it attempted to drag him into the Realm of Darkness and is able to attack on it's own, if this thing does not get to be classified as a Heartless, then the Unnamed Heartless should not get to be either. We presume that the Unnamed Heartless is a Heartless because it looks like a Heartless (having yellow eyes and similar colouration), the Guardian should be presumed to be one too.--Vanitas (talk) 10:30, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

I think this is something that needs canon confirmation first. We don't know the exact mechanics that created the guardian (and we probably never will, since it isn't an important plot point as anything other than something that indicates Xehanort's darkness). Pink Agaricus (talk) 18:42, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Actually, considering the cutscene after Riku defeats Ansem in KH3D, I suspect that the Guardian will become a plot point in the future. --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 18:57, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Ah, yeah. Maybe. KHIII is supposed to be the definitive end to the Xehanort story, so we'll see. Pink Agaricus (talk) 19:03, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Honestly, considering how long it's been appearing without further elucidation, I'd wager that SE just thought that noone could possibly be confused about it being a Heartless. I mean, it's introduced as the shadow of the king of the Heartless, and has every hallmark we could detect beyond the incontrovertible (and not occurring) question of what happens when it is slain."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 23:50, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

One could likewise easily argue that they never thought people would take "thing attached to Ansem or Xehanort" as anything further than face value, though. Pink Agaricus (talk) 00:18, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Doubtful considering how complex the plot of Kingdom Hearts has become, with the Guardian appearing alongside Xehanort in almost every installment. As a said, if we do not consider this a Heartless, then we can not consider the Unnamed Heartless as a Heartless.--Vanitas (talk) 11:03, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

I really don't know why you keep bringing that up. Nobody doubts that it's a Heartless and there's no reason to. The guardian has completely different circumstances. Pink Agaricus (talk) 17:06, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

They harp on what kind of thing everyone is all the time; though. They even take time to clarify that the Spirit of the Mirror became an Unversed; it makes no sense that they would assume that everyone would see the guardian, attached to a Heartless, as "just some being like the Genie or something"."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 17:33, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

So we should probably change the page from saying a "Dark Entity similar to a Pureblood Heartless" to "a Pureblood Heartless".--Vanitas (talk) 08:56, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

No. In the absence of citable evidence, we'd need consensus to go out on a limb like that, and we don't have it. The entity isn't a denizen of the Realm of Darkness, so we can't say it as a certainty as with the UH, and we never see it slain so we can't use the defining characteristics of the Heartless. Although it seems obvious, we're going to have to wait for either an explicit statement or for the community to change its mind.

That being said, we don't have to wait for KH3 to try and get that defining statement. Anybody who can try to get contacts with SE, or can find any info in the Ultimanias, have at it."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:32, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

We have seen it "slain"... kind of... - twice within DDD - first time after defeating Ansem (Second form), and second time when Donald/Goofy arrive at TWTNW and smash it on the head.--Vanitas (talk) 10:58, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

It's clearly made of darkness, but it's not slain. It just vanishes, and for our purposes we need to know whether, when destroyed, it releases a heart or fades into darkness."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 22:57, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

And why wouldn't it be a heartless ? We've enough proofs that it is. And SE indeed does think the fact that it's a heartless is obvious for everyone. -- BraviDunno 20:08, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

I think we can all agree it's a Heartless, right?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 22:45, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

I can agree. I hope the Guardian does get explained in KHIII so we can actually say for sure.

As for the first point, about the guardian and World of Chaos being one in the same and merging the two pages: personally I think it's more like the guardian is a part of the World of Chaos just like Ansem is, so I don't think merging is necessary. Also keep in mind that the World of Chaos page is already a Game: tab on the Ansem Seeker of Darkness page, so merging the two would probably be difficult anyway. Blackchaos27 (talk) 01:32, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph vs. Article Title - Capitalization

This has been bothering me for a while: the article title capitalizes the "g" in "guardian," but the opening paragraph does not. Is there a reason for the lack of consistency? - Eternal Nothingness XIII 10:22, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

The article title is presumably going along "every word must be capitalized", which I personally don't agree with, but it is what it is. Personally, I would prefer a lowercase "g", so that properly-spelled links to this page do not need to be piped."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:11, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Since we've never had an officially confirmed name, there isn't really any reason to keep it capitalized. --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 16:49, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Neumz-senpai has a point. I don't see the problem of going with the lowercase "g".--NinjaSheik 02:04, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Novel

The Novel describes the entity, calling it "[Ansem's] shadow". This page calls it alternately "the monster behind [Ansem]" and "Terra's phantom". Do you think we could split the difference among these and call this "Xehanort's shadow"?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 14:23, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Sure, I don't see a problem with it. After all, the page's name isn't official. If there is an official source out there, then we use the term they use.--NinjaSheik 21:42, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

I think we shouldn't. Apart from the fact that the novel isn't considered canon, the novel also doesn't name any Heartless in it. It just describes how they look. TheSilentHero 06:51, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm always hesitant to use novelizations as canon, especially for KH. Considering the games should be primary canon in our minds, and how it's referred to as guardian in-game, I think we should leave it as is. Chitalian8 14:47, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

I didn't mean for it to be taken as canon, just that it was a description that had appeared elsewhere. If we're sticking with guardian, then it should be lowercase."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 17:58, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Oh, right. It was discussed before. Seeing as no one has made any objections about it above, I'm going to move it.--NinjaSheik 22:53, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the CoM ultimania consistently calls it the "shadow behind Ansem", or "shadow (kage)": here."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:04, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Would it be fine to just have the first sentence be something like "Xehanort's guardian, also known as Xehanort's shadow..." or something like that? Chitalian8 16:36, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

What evidence do we have for "guardian"? In BBS, the mission text says to "defeat Xehanort and his shadowy other" so I'm more in favour of Xehanort's "shadow" than "guardian". TheFifteenthMember 16:45, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

I think that would have been the quote "Come, guardian". TheSilentHero 16:48, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

The original KH Ultimania gives it another placeholder name, "Small, Darkside-like being (Below, Shadow)" (小さなダークサイドような者（以下、影）, Chiisana Daakusaido-younasaha (Ika, Kage)), if we want to mention that in the article. The attack descriptions just keep calling it the shadow (影, kage)."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 16:15, 17 March 2016 (UTC)