Talk:Vanitas

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Archive 1 - November 05, 2009 Archive 2 - January 20, 2010

Vanitas and the Unversed

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— 01:07, January 10, 2010 (UTC) Does anyone think that Vanitas is the cause of the Unversed "plague"? I mean, it seems to me that he is controlling them... as seen here. If anyone understands what the two are talking about... please enlighten us!

Terra Fae Odosson - Got it memorized? TALK - I do! I was shocked. I don't get why he looks like Sora. Saying he's Ven's darkness makes sense but I doubt that's all there is to it. If he is physically related to anyone I would say Master Xehanort. But about a new game. Did any one watch the secret ending but me? It said Reconnect Kingdom Hearts. I'm not suggesting that's what the new game shall be called but I mean that's the basis. It's all in the secret ending already on youtube. I didn't mean to sound snippy!

No clue what they're saying, but it does seem that Vanitas has some kind of control over the Unversed. And on that boss battle, his health seemed shockingly low when that's gotta be late in Ven's storyline. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

The Unversed appear to be the creation of Vanitas, who is the creation of Master Xehanort (with Ventus' help). Vanitas, being made of all of the Darkness that was extracted from Ventus' Heart, is possibly the first Unversed. The Unversed, as you know, are considered the opposite of human life. In the KH Universe, humans are denizens of the Realm of Light. Vanitas, though extracted from a human, is pure Darkness and therefore cannot be a denizen of Light. Thus making him a human from the Realm of Darkness, which would overall make Vanitas a sort of 'anti-human', or the opposite of Human life. Because Vanitas is comprised only of Darkness, it is implied that he would have some control over it and could even influence the Darkness into consciousness and form as the Unversed.XYZ. 05:22, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting theory, but could you at least sign it? Raven's wing 11:52, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

File:DiZ2-ChofMem.png

Gnut2.0 - It is the fate of a Nobody...And a Heartless...Anyone who gets in the way really... TALK - An entity shrouded in mystery...And idioms Hmmm, an intersting theory. But, if what you say is true, then that would make Xeanorts (not sure if I spelled that right) Heartless in the same family as Vanitas. But he's a Heartless, so would that make Vanitas a difrent breed of Heartless? Very puzzuling indeed. That would make it that there could possubly another uprising, yes?

D.Dark - Master of lame names! TALK - D.Dark. 02:24, January 11, 2010 (UTC) It kinda makes sense. Ansem (Xehanort's heartless..or Terra's heartless)= Heartless,Organization XIII =Nobody, Vanitas = Unversed(maybe). Alright Ansem is a heartless but has a human form, the organization is comprised of nobodies but they also have human forms (tough it was explained because they had like extra strong hearts or something)and Vanitas is maybe an Unversed and has human form. See the connection? Looks to me that people with extra strong hearts (Xehanort/Terra for example) can make heartless and nobodie in human form. Since we arent really sure about everything with the Unversed i cant say anything about Vanitas really. But it seems to me there are like ranks for these beings. Heartless = Shadows,Stronger Heartless,Boss Heartless and heartless like "Ansem". Nobody = Dusks/Creepers,stronger nobodies,even stronger ones (Twilight Thorn), the organization (cause they have human form), Unversed = The Unversed version of the Shadow heartless,stronger unversed,boss unversed (wheel master), Vanitas. So? Anything sparked in your brain?

Well it is known that Unversed are the opposite of human life and Vanitas is the darkness of Ventus or in other words his opposite. So it could be very well possible that Vanitas is the first Unversed. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

Story

Ok. What the heck happened to the story section? Randomnessity Well, you won't vanish from my memories.

I'm wondering if we're allowed to actually start putting in the story information or do we have to wait for the English release for that? Lavaros

Well they want people to be careful for what they put on the page. In other words the poster must be absolutely, 100%, perfectly sure that what happened is exactly what happened, with a spoiler template added. And the literary part of the edit must be immaculate as well. In other words an important chunk of the story will be added when it comes out in English. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

I kind of saw that with 358/2 Days- but at this point, the important parts should be coming soon? There's likely some one out there who got the ISO(I do not endorse this option >..>) or bought the game who will eventually give information and clear up some of the confusion regarding why Vanitas looks like Sora because all I've seen so far is guess work. Lavaros

The majority of us here know all of the important things that happen. They're all over the talk pages. It's just a matter when we get a valid translation. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

That will take awhile, especially with all the people flooding the stream plays, I think some of the pages can start to be edited soon enough though, maybe not the story section, but Terra's, Aqua's and Ventus' Keyblades and Gameplay sections. Lavaros

Oh, the Keyblades and gameplay are well under way. It just takes some work and translating. The story is much more difficult and complicated. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

Indeed, it really looks like Nomura decided to pull a Hideo Kojima on us. Lavaros

Yeah. And you don't have to type in your username everytime. You can just press the signature button above the edit box and that will take care of it. It's the button with the cursive writing. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

Lavaros - Answer me Xehanort, what have you done to his heart!? TALK - So you've been watching over me... — 04:34, January 12, 2010 (UTC) Lucky me then, I've been given a fancy box by JFHavoc. Makes things so much easier (just copy and paste it really.) On the topic of Vanitas though, do we know if he survived within Ventus or sent in to Sora (explaining the resemblance.

KrytenKoro - "That's when we bumped into Hannity. Sean Hannity. See the thing about this dude is, at first he's fair, right? And you're like "Wow!" But then BOOM. The dude's balanced, too. And you're like, HOLY SHIT." TALK - Even if Vanitas is inside Sora (and we do know there is some darkness within him), Sora was already a 4-year old kid during this game, and he looked mostly as he does now, just shorter. Really, it's seeming more and more like Nomura made a huge mess out of this situation.

One-Winged Angel "The things you want to say the most are the things you fight yourself the hardest not to say." TALK - Do you think you can erase your past? - 22:43 January 11,2010 I think I figured it out but it's confusing. Master Eraqus told Ven he wasn't supposed to exist. It makes sense I guess if you think Ven was supposed to stay a part of Sora's heart because in the secret ending, Ven tells Sora he has to join with his heart again. Adding to this infomation, Vanitas is supposed to be the darkness extracted from Ven's heart. So if Vanitas is the darkness of Ven's heart, and the latter was a part of Sora's heart, it would make sense that Vanitas would look like Sora(except older).

Lavaros - Answer me Xehanort, what have you done to his heart!? TALK - So you've been watching over me... — 08:01, January 12, 2010 (UTC) Well that makes things a little bit clearer, and so far, Terra's connection to Riku is that he chose him to be a Keyblade wielder one day? (possibly wanting to take him on as an apprentice, I think?) And Kairi's connection to Aqua is... that she talked to her one time?

KingdomKeyDarkside - A scattered dream that's like a far-off memory. A far off memory that's like a scattered dream. TALK - I want to line the pieces up, yours, and mine.22:52, January 19, 2010 (UTC) Kryten: He had light hair as a 4 year old, dark hair as a 14 year old (until he stabbed himself) and light hair again n COM and KHII. coincidence? I think not.

File:Jiminy-Merci-Live.gif

Sacul097 - Don’t talk to me about Mondays… or carrots TALK - All statements are wrong... including this one I've been wondering about why Sora's hair suddenly changed color. I thought that it had something to do with Namine's memory pods or something--Sacul097 01:14, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas's story section

So, can anyone link to the translations of the game, please? Since apparently the entire story has been fan-dubbed somewhere?Glorious CHAOS! 13:57, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

I've marked the section with tags for citation. Unless links to reliable, first-hand translations can be provided, the material will be deleted. As it is, the section looks like it was probably written by someone who could not read the script, and was simply describing the scenes, which is what we all agreed we wouldn't do.Glorious CHAOS! 19:37, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Chronologically

I just watched the battle between Aqua and Vanitas/Ventus and I saw that Kingdom Hearts was still in the sky. This is Aqua's last battle in her storyline and this battle happens after Ven's final battle with Vanitas. So since Kingdom Hearts is still in the sky that means Terra is still battling MX correct. That would make the chronological order of the final bosses, Ven vs. Vanitas, Aqua vs. Ven/Vanitas, Lingering Sentiment Terra vs. Terranort, and then finally the very final boss against Terranort in Radiant Garden. Is that the correct order or did I miss something? Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

Venkix - Having no heart, no emotions. It's Better this way. TALK - Open your heart. - You forgot the secret final boss

Who would that be? Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

Venkix - Having no heart, no emotions. It's Better this way. TALK - Open your heart. - An unversed/absent soihuotte vanitas. only fought by aqua. Go to the section above called "secret boss" to watch the video

I remember him but who knows when that fight is chronologically fought. Oh, and apparently he can be fought by all of them, not just Aqua. It's just easier to unlock him in Aqua's story. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

Venkix - Having no heart, no emotions. It's Better this way. TALK - Open your heart. - I stand correct then. But doesnt she fight him AFTEr you beat the game? So chronilogically, that was the last boss right?

Well he may appear after you beat the game, or after you accomplish some feat, but that doesn't mean he is fought after the game chronologically. Just like the Lingering Sentiment, Kurt Zisa, the Phantom, Ice Titan, and Sephiroth. If the fights are considered canon they do happen before the final boss. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

Lavaros - Answer me Xehanort, what have you done to his heart!? TALK - So you've been watching over me... — 20:15, January 13, 2010 (UTC) I don't think Secret bosses count towards the story line at all, all of them are just extra's too be found. So I don't think Vanitas Sentiment would ever actually of happened.

Well except for KHII Sephiroth and maybe the Lingering Sentiment. I'm positive the Sephiroth stuff in KHII happened because of the cutscenes, and the LS battle because it would be pretty important. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

KrytenKoro - Most bears were content to live their lives, mauling and eating one, maybe two humans at most. "Mass-murder," as the bears always said, "is for the sharks." But not Barry. Barry was different. He knew that one day, he would kill ALL of the humans. This is the inspiring, tear-jerking story of one bear and the dream he dared to dream. TALK - The fact that Xion references Kurt Zisa is just one example indicating that all sidequests are canon.

Good point, but that could be a reference to the world itself. I mean scimitars are used in that kind of place. She just happened to have four. I'm not disagreeing with you though. It's just when would some of these happen? Why would Sora take a little rest stop to go to Agrabah, Olympus Coliseum, and Neverland, when he's gotta stop the worlds from being destroyed by everyone's favorite psychopathic Heartless? Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

KrytenKoro - "It is often said that before you die your life passes before your eyes. It is in fact true. It's called living." TALK - Well, canonically, he did take rest-stops at Olympus Coliseum, to challenge and defeat all of the cups, at least up to Hades. Days provides physical evidence for that. Then the side-jaunt to Hollow Bastion to fight Xemnas is canon as well. I'm guessing he did these because he wanted to check on his friends, or needed to train.

But how did Leon and Yuffie end up at the cups? I think the only canon fights at the cups are the Cloud, Hercules, Hades, Titans, and maybe Sephiroth matches. Just my opinion. And can you fight Xemnas the time you return to Hollow Bastion to seal the Keyhole and defeat the Behemoth? Or is it until after that when he appears? If he appears when you return for the Keyhole, that was probably when Sora fought him. And checking up on his friends when the universe is in danger would be something Sora would do. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

The Platinum Match doesn't seem to be canon, since Sephiroth and Sora act as if they've never met in KH2.—Urutapu 22:19, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

I didn't really think so either. That's why I put maybe. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

Lavaros - Answer me Xehanort, what have you done to his heart!? TALK - So you've been watching over me... — 22:51, January 13, 2010 (UTC) I think that the fight with Sephiroth in Kingdom Hearts 2 will count (even though it's optional), but I don't think that the fight with him in Kingdom Hearts does, as for the Ice Titan, Kurt Zisa and The Phantom, it's kind of hard to see why he would come back to Agrabah or Neverland once he thought it was okay when he was so close to getting Riku back and getting home.

KrytenKoro - And when you see me standing there, you'll know you've got a friend with a rock, I mean a big-ass rock. TALK - The Sephiroth bit, maybe, although it's not like they sat down and had tea or anything. However, all of the Phil through Hades cups are canon, since the scoreboards, which list each seed, are still up in Days. Because of this, and because once you start excluding cutscenes for canon status, it can get pretty hairy, I think the best solution is just to consider the entire games canon - it's not like Sephiroth and Sora being unfamiliar is the greatest of the plot holes in the series. We can then just comment when a plot hole appears.

Venkix - Having no heart, no emotions. It's Better this way. TALK - Open your heart. - Both thoeries are interesting. But has anyone know what happens after you beat the unversed Vanitas? do yuo get an item? possibly another cutscene?

Has anyone even beaten him yet? In all the videos I've seen no one has even layed a finger on him. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

Venkix - Having no heart, no emotions. It's Better this way. TALK - Open your heart. - Me too, but has anyone been able to beat it? Does anyone knows what happens? I know it has to be something good because that bosss honestly rapes....

Or they might pull a KH Sephiroth on us and leave us with nothing after all the hard work. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

Lavaros - Answer me Xehanort, what have you done to his heart!? TALK - So you've been watching over me... — 00:38, January 14, 2010 (UTC) A friend of mine has Birth By Sleep, when he tries to beat Vanitas Sentiment, I'll ask if he can record it?

There's no reason for the million empty lines. Anyway, the real problem is that, apparently, Vanitas requires a very specific deck to defeat. Or so says Nomura.—Urutapu 00:40, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Deck? Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

Venkix - Having no heart, no emotions. It's Better this way. TALK - Open your heart. - Yes lavaros, that would be nice. Randomnesity you could be right. But when you beat Sephiroth, didn't you at least get One-Winged angel? It's been so long I can't remember.

There's no reason for the million empty lines. Anyway Randomnessity, yeah, you set up techniques sort of like a deck.—Urutapu 00:45, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

I see. I never read the gameplay sections. Wanted to learn as I went along. And maybe they never disabled the RTE? EDIT: You only get the One Winged Angel in FM. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

The prize is nothing special and certainly not as cool as the one winged angel keyblade.Hirokey123 05:14, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Key-blade master - I don't need a weapon! My friends are my power! TALK - Roxas... I wish I could meet him too... — 02:23, January 31, 2010 (UTC) I believe when you beat the lingering sentiment vanitas all you get is some very special, synthesis item. i'm not too sure though.

Just a question... *spoilers*

How the heck did all of that hair fit into Vanitas's helmet!?! Keyblade474 16:19, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Oddishh - We're friends. Therefore, I want to ask you something... Destroy me. TALK - Our connected hearts are my power! because Vanitas' magical hair can bend and sway whatever way it pleases without showing under the helmet. that's how KH physics work, silly. xDDD

If this game had realistic physics, we shouldn't have been able to recognize Sora's head under the helmet. The helmet hair would have made him completely unrecognizable.

I also enjoyed Square's convenient "only showing his eyes" as his helmet is taken off. I kind of would have enjoyed seeing his hair just go POOF and appear... Yes, this entire post was completely relevant. 72.77.96.235 06:40, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Connection With Riku

HeartFallout Talk! — If I had a dollar for every time I broke my PS2.. I would still be very poor. — 02:59, February 3, 2010 (UTC) Anyone have any theories how Vanitas is connected to Riku? They have the same battle stance/Organic suit

That's...pretty much it. Xehanort/the darkness just likes to recycle outfits.—Urutapu 04:51, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Xabryn - I don't care if you're real!You're not better! TALK - It's nice to have darkness on my side.{{{time}}} Does riku have the same Battle stance as Vanitas before the destruction of DI?i mean on the battle he seem more on the defensive and he hold the toy sword with only one hand so i'm not sure.

Enough!

Naruto195 —What the hell did you do Angeal!? TALK - "Is that? Is that your idea of honor?." — Naruto195 06:04, February 10, 2010 (UTC) This page needs be protected or something. Its annoying for people to have to keep reverting posts made by people who have no sources as to the Trivia and Voice acting part.

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* I completely agree. This HJO bullshit really needs to stop, and this article (along a plethora of others) just need a strong dosage of lockage for a good while.

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - One day, the light-it will be ours, and it will bring us together. Til then, I'll be in your heart... It is kinda annoying.

I had to revert that particular edit from two different anons in the vicinity of two minutes. I think it should be user blocked. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

Naruto195 —What the hell did you do Angeal!? TALK - "Is that? Is that your idea of honor?." — Naruto195 00:08, February 13, 2010 (UTC) Late reply but thanks for agreeing. Anyone know any way to do that?

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - One day, the light-it will be ours, and it will bring us together. Til then, I'll be in your heart... The only one who can protect a page are admins. Talk to KrytenKoro.

Naruto195 —What the hell did you do Angeal!? TALK - "Is that? Is that your idea of honor?." — Naruto195 00:15, February 13, 2010 (UTC) Hmm alright,I'll ask. In the mean time,lets keep this page fine

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - One day, the light-it will be ours, and it will bring us together. Til then, I'll be in your heart... Right.

Universal Chaos...?

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Where do people come up with this crap...? And the fact that he took the time to write all that out, only for it to be deleted in a minute... Just...wow.

Some people think this can be used for fanon as well. At least that's what I think. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Isn't there an entirely separate wiki for that kind of nonsense?

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - One day, the light-it will be ours, and it will bring us together. Til then, I'll be in your heart... Now, now. Calm down, you two discussed this calmly, all right?

@NeutraVega:Indeed there is. A lot of anon don't know that. That doesn't give them the right to add all of their fanon ideas to this wiki. There should be a headline somewhere that states this wiki does not support fanon ideas. @NinjaShiek:Don't worry. I never lose my calm in a conversation. Randomnessity Looks like you're prepared.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? That is a very good idea. If there were a headline like that, it should probably have a link to the Kingdom Hearts Fanon Wiki of it. That otta divert a lot of (though not all, let's be honest) the fanon ideas.

And he looks like Sora because... ?

I breezed through this page and for some reason could not find a reason for his likeness to Sora. What's up wit that? Because he was born with his helmet on, I'd assume that he would look like Ventus. But I guess Ventus' Heart linking with Sora's could have effected Vanitas' appearance, but that's just me trying to understand it.. What is the game's explanation and why isn't it listed here?XYZ. 05:19, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

he doesn't born with his helmet but his head isn't showed and if you think well it is sora that looks like him, but i don't know why thy're so alike--Xabryn 21:56, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

You're kind of right. Initially, when Vanitas is first materializing, you do not see all of his head, but you can see his metallic jaw guard thing. However, by the end of his birth scene you do see that he is wearing the helmet.XYZ. 05:19, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

LegoAlchemist - They changed "Snipe Magnet" to "Magnet Grab"? Who's translating this game, 4kids? TALK - Friendships are in direct contravention of mercenary conduct as delineated in your contracts, and on a personal note: I am very, very, disappointed with you. Hmm... I'll have to review the scene for confirmation of that, but Vanitas was definately born unmasked. I am really wondering this too. It is clear that Sora connected his heart to Ventus after Vanitas was born. Either Ventus and Sora have an even deeper connection (like, brothers or something), or we difinetely missed something. Although there is a theory that it is the other way around. Sora looks like Vanitas, not Vanitas looks like Sora. It is Vanitas's existnace (and appearance) and Ventus and Sora's connected heart that caused Sora to end up looking like Vanitas. Crazy, I know, but it is the only theory that makes sense. (besides the the whole Ventus and Sora "brothers" speculation).

When we saw Sora, he already looked like a mini version of old Sora, and Sora's mom would have noticed if he suddenly changed faces. It also doesn't make sense that Vanitas looks nothing like Ventus. However, do we know what world Ventus is from? It could be possible that they are brothers, though.Glorious CHAOS! 15:46, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Neumannz — Looks like I'm gonna have to jump...! TALK — I work alone! Except when I work with Xion...which is all the time. — 17:33, March 24, 2010 (UTC)   I don't like the idea of adding a "long-lost sibling" concept to the story, so I'd rather just assume that Vanitas's face was influenced by Sora after Ven & Sora were connected. What Vani looked like before, we can only guess. Hopefully the Ultimania will give a more satisfactory answer. EDIT: Well, Heartstation.org has put up a complete interview with Nomura from the Ultimania [1], and it looks like I was more or less right. Sora's heart being used to heal Ventus's heart caused Vanitas's face to look like him. To quote from the interview, "as a result of Sora’s influence on those damaged parts, Vanitas’ face changed into the same as Sora’s. Therefore if Riku was supplementing the missing parts of Ventus’ heart, Vanitas’ face would likely look like Riku."

Even though it's Word Of God, it still has me skeptical since Sora wasn't even born when Vanitas was created. Ventus looked around KH1 Sora's age at the time. Sooo....yeeeeah.........why is Sora Jesus all of a sudden? Kaihedgie 21:38, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

True, but like I said, we have no idea what Vani's face looked like when he was born. Almost certainly he didn't look like Sora right off the bat. Since he was a fragment of Ven's heart, it's possible his face was damaged/featureless/a warped version of Ven's. I think it's safe to say his face was changed into its final appearance, though. Also, I don't understand your Jesus comment. --Neumannz 21:51, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, if Ven was the same age as Sora in KH1 when Vanitas was made(14) then Sora would have been 3. This is of course assuming that Ventus is 15 during BBS. --Evnyofdeath 20:06, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Everyone's suddenly treating him like some kinda savior all of a sudden. D: Yes, I know he's connected, but he and Aqua never even met and Ansem doesn't remember and Terra didn't give two craps about him. So why? D: Kaihedgie 21:54, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Oddishh - We're friends. Therefore, I want to ask you something... Destroy me. TALK - Our connected hearts are my power! From BBS Ultimania:: Nomura: I knew that Ventus should look either like Sora or Roxas, and I wasn’t sure which one to go with, but I thought Vanitas looking like Sora would have a bigger impact so I had Ventus look like Roxas instead. And there is a reason that Vanitas looks like Sora. As Sora filled in Ventus’ fractured heart, the fractured part (Vanitas) was effected by Sora and ended up with Sora’s face. So if it had been Riku who had filled in Ventus’ heart, Vanitas would have looked like Riku. Case closed.

Yeeeah, someone already beat you to it. However, it didn't answer my question one bit XD Kaihedgie 22:15, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Neumannz — Looks like I'm gonna have to jump...! TALK — I work alone! Except when I work with Xion...which is all the time. — 22:28, March 25, 2010 (UTC)   Weeeell, your question about Sora being everyone's savior isn't exactly relevant to the question of Vani's face. As for why Sora is in this situation, well, pretty much all the events led up to this point, and really there are only 4 people connected to Sora. He won't really be a "savior" to anyone else, though obviously we'll see him saving the realm of light, but he's done that before so it shouldn't make so much of a difference.

Oddishh - We're friends. Therefore, I want to ask you something... Destroy me. TALK - Our connected hearts are my power! FACT: Sora is a normal boy whose only 'power' is the ability to connect his hearts with others. This isn't neccessarily a unique trait, either, as there are probably others with this ability. His Keyblade wielding and abilities rely solely on Ventus. Yes, he may house a lot of hearts, but that doesn't make him a Savior. Sure, he's a hero. But, when you come down to the core, he's just your typical kid. This was pretty much said right-out in Ultimania also.

Xabryn - I don't care if you're real!You're not better! TALK - It's nice to have darkness on my side.{{{time}}} It still don't explain why he have some similarities with Riku and please don't say that it is because of Xehanort's Heartless cuz i'm sick of this theory

Neumannz — Looks like I'm gonna have to jump...! TALK — I work alone! Except when I work with Xion...which is all the time. — 23:40, March 25, 2010 (UTC)   Actually, I'd bet the bodysuit probably was influenced by Xehanort's Heartless. As for the fighting stance, well, big deal. It's a fighting stance. It's not like two people can't use the same stance. I don't think there were any other real similarities.

Xabryn - I don't care if you're real!You're not better! TALK - It's nice to have darkness on my side.{{{time}}} Riku got the Dark Mode before XH and tell me one character that have a battle stance from another character that besides Riku and Vanitas Edit:And i don't think tha MX created the bodysuit the Vanitas wear he only take the darkness from Ventus's heart and it appeared

If I remember right, XH made contact with Riku on Destiny Islands. As for battle stances, it doesn't matter that others don't share the same stance (except Roxas, Xion, and Sora, but they don't count), it doesn't make it impossible for 2 unrelated people to have the same stance. The fact is, Vani was designed to have parallels with Riku, but none of the similarities can't be explained as a coincidence. (Does he have the same fighting style even?) I honestly don't know if there's an actual reason for the bodysuit being similar, but it's not a huge deal. --Neumannz 23:57, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

I like how people haven't attempted to answer my first question regardin' Vanitas. Kaihedgie 00:44, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

About Sora being Jesus? I recommend taking the question somewhere else, like a forum page. This is supposed to be a page to discuss info for Vani's article, and your question seems to be too subjective for Sora's article talk page. --Neumannz 00:50, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: Wait, you had a question about Vanitas? Where? What was it? --Neumannz 00:53, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

'Even though it's Word Of God, it still has me skeptical since Sora wasn't even born when Vanitas was created. Ventus looked around KH1 Sora's age at the time. So how?' Kaihedgie 01:16, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Neumannz — Looks like I'm gonna have to jump...! TALK — I work alone! Except when I work with Xion...which is all the time. — 01:26, March 26, 2010 (UTC)   Um... I did answer that. Vani didn't look like Sora when he was born. His face changed afterwards. It follows from what Nomura said.

Must I repeat myself? Must pay closer attention. Ventus' heart wasn't repaired until he was taken to Destiny Islands. He was still just a kid at the time. x: Kaihedgie 01:36, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

What is the question? Why doesn't Vanitas look like young Sora? "How" what? Say the question clearly and explicitly if you want an answer. --Neumannz 01:40, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

The question is: How could Sora have possibly had a coherent influence on Ventus' heart if he was not even born? The keyword 'How'? Why I ask how? Ventus was around KH1 Sora's age when Vanitas was created and when he was placed on Destiny Islands by Master Xehanort which was where he was 'repaired'. That is my question. I'm pretty sure I was very clear the first time. Kaihedgie 02:07, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

You were not. You never said the question straight out. Sora didn't have an influence before he was born. He was born the night MX brought Ven to the islands, if I remember correctly what happened during Ven's Awakening. Sora's newly born heart connected with Ven's broken heart to heal it. That was when he started influencing Ven's heart. Does that make sense? --Neumannz 02:15, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Not. One. Bit. Kaihedgie 02:29, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Well, in that case I gotta say, live with it. --Neumannz 02:30, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

And after reviewing Vanitas' birth scene, I can say for sure that he has his helmet on.XYZ. 05:03, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry if this is redundant, but the reason Vanitas looks like Sora is because after the Darkness was extraced from Ven's Heart, the voice/Heart that connected to it was Sora's. Even though Vanitas was a seperate being, he was still dependant on Ven (I assume this because Ven was dependant of Vanitas, for after Vanitas was destroyed, Ven's Heart faded away), and because of Vens connection to Sora, Vanitas took on an altered version of Sora's teenage appearance. At least, this is what I've drawn from several others. --Evnyofdeath 20:04, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas must like to hear himself talk..

After looking through the Birth by Sleep section of the page I noticed that Vanitas 'reveals' his birth from Ventus' heart twice, both times to Ventus. The first time this is mentioned is in the 5th paragraph. This is when Ventis and Vanitas meet on Destiny Island. I've seen the scene and agree that Vanitas definitely spills the beans here. But then in the 7th paragraph it says that after Vanitas reveals his face he tells Ventus that he is the Darkness of Ven's heart. Did Ventus not get the idea the first time? I believe that whoever added that meant to state that this is where Vanitas takes credit for the Unversed.XYZ. 06:27, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Wait what?

"Master Xehanort then proceeded to use his Keyblade to unlock Ventus's heart, resulting in Vanitas's formation. The dark enigma, who appeared from an orb of dark energy, would be the source of the Unversed as well as a key component in Master Xehanort's plans." Does this mean Vanitas is master of the Unversed?Innosense 21:25, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Yes.--NinjaSheik 21:26, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Enough

NeutraVega Talk to me, you triple zero!. — "3, 22⁄7, 333⁄106, 355⁄113, 103993/33102...'." *Cue echo SFX* Wasn't it decided, like...I dunno, about five dozen times now, that secret concept videos aren't canon material? How many times more must we reach that decision for people to get the hint?

Ultimania

The Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep Ultimania does not classify Vanitas as an Unversed. He is classified as a non-Unversed enemy, as is his sentiment, Terra, Zack, and Master Xehanort, among others. I do not think that Vanitas is an Unversed for several reasons; for example, Vanitas does not bear the Unversed logo, as all Unversed do. In addition, Vanitas was not created as a product of Vanitas's abilities, as the Unversed were, but instead was created from being seperated from Ventus, which caused the Unversed to begin appearing. Vanitas's status as an Unversed or non-Unversed needs to be decided on; if there is any reasoning as to why you think Vanitas is an Unversed, please leave it here so that it may be brought into conversation. By doing this, we will be able to make a sourced and informed decision on whether this article belongs in the "Unversed" category or not. --^DTN 06:47, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas can still technically be considered an Unversed. The Flood don't have the crest, but they're still called as such. In addition, Vanitas is the physical manifestation of another person's primal force and embodies everything associated with that force, even moreso than Xehanort and his incarnations ever did. It's safe to say he is the king Unversed. Without him, they wouldn't exist, so when he went, so did they. Like I said in the previous talk page, I'm not sure the Ultimania is entirely correct. Kaihedgie 07:01, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas isn't a Unversed, i knew that since the beginning but i agree with Kaihedgie, he is the king Unversed so he can be considered one even if the ultimania says it isn'tXabryn

Reorganization

This article is a mess. Images are everywhere. Sections are written poorly or with very choppy sentences or bad grammar. If anyone would like to help me as I expand/revise the article, please message me. I am going to leave the clean-up template now. - EternalNothingnessXIII 19:12, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Sora's age when Vanitas was created

I got sick of reading that "Sora wasn't even born when Vanitas was created, because Ventus was KH1 Sora's age" If Ventus was KH1 Sora's age when Vanitas was created, that would mean Sora was 3 when Vanitas was created. This is of course assuming that Ventus is 15 during BBS. --Evnyofdeath 20:21, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Sign your posts.

Ven's Awakening indicates that Sora had just been born when M. Xehanort brought Ven to Destiny Islands. Assuming that happened a short time after Vani was created, Sora was most likely born after that, or not long before. (Anyway, that doesn't matter, since Sora definitely didn't connect with Ven until after Vani was created.)

Also, where does it indicate how old Ventus is? --Neumannz 20:18, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I hadn't heard that before. But wouldn't that mean Ven would be older? He looks the same age as Roxas was, meaning he would be around 15 during BBS, and because BBS takes place around 10 years before KH1, that would mean Sora would be 5, and since people are saying that Ven was 14(Sora's KH1 age) when Vanitas was created that would mean Sora would be around 4....this is so confusing...... --Evnyofdeath 20:24, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

About 4 years past between Vani's creation and the main BBS storyline. Ven was CLEARLY younger when Vani was created. I'd say Ven was around 14 or 15 during the main storyline. Sora is 4. That's about all. --Neumannz 20:32, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, thanks for clearing that up for me. --Evnyofdeath 20:36, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting Triva

Xelax - You really shouldn't have betrayed us! TALK - Rambling? As if! — Be a good boy now! 22:49, April 27, 2010 (UTC) So, I was listening to the BbS soundtrack when I noticed something. Right before the song starts to repeat itself, an underscore comes in. That underscore is the song "Sora" with a different pitch and speed, play by a violin-sounding instrument. If you wanna hear it, it starts around 1:45 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Oi4QaqWoLA&feature=related. This is just another special way that Nomura connects Sora and Vanitas.

Plan B

I just saw a subbed version of what happen in aqua story after she fought Vanitas in Radiant Garden, he says that she is strong and that she would be his plan B then after leaving she tells her to become stronger. So i was thinking for create the X-Blade it is only necessary a heart of pure light(which aqua have) and a heart of pure darkness(as we know vanitas, so I was thinking maybe Aqua would be his plan B for create the X-Blade for the case of Ventus's heart keep weak. I know it look stupid but it kinda make sense so... what you guys think?--Xabryn 00:52, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

I believe Nomura confirmed that Vanitas was indeed talking about using Aqua as a "spare" incase it didn't work with Ventus in an interview somewhere (check KHInsider, it should be a fairly recent link). And yup, it only has to be a heart of pure darkness and a heart of pure light to make the X-Blade. Doesn't matter who they're from. EDIT: Here's the link: [2]--Lapis ofthe Night 01:04, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

When I clicked that link, it didn't take me anywhere, I just got a 'this site does not exist' thing --Evnyofdeath 05:46, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Who would say that I say right for once, thanks Lapis--Xabryn 01:42, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

@Envyofdeath: Weird, it works when I click on it. Check the second archive on KHInsider's main page, and look for the headline about "Plot mysteries" if it still doesn't work.--Lapis ofthe Night 06:00, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, thanks. My computer just has this weird habit if I click a link that doesn't lead to a site, I wind up at this site called desktop smily search........ --Evnyofdeath 06:03, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

That article really helped me explain many of the games plot points. Now I know why Aqua hesitated when she saw Sora. Naruto195 19:51, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas Thoughts

/Users/period1/Desktop/ucard.png Hey! For all who don't know me, I am DialgaMan. I have a question. Does anyone know why Vanitas feels the need to make Ven stronger?

To create the X-Blade and become one again Kaihedgie 14:32, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

You see, to create the X-blade you need two people with equal strength and hearts of pure light (Ventus) and darkness (Vanitas) but Ven used to be weaker than Vanitas so he needed to make him stronger so when they fight the X-blade would be created. Get it?--No.i 16:09, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

A Pretty Useless Trivia

You know when Vanitas was defeated for the time by Aqua, his belt vanished but the shadow thingy of the belt is still there. Yeah it's a pretty dumb trivia.—WingBlade

Hayley Joe Osment for Vanitas

Obviously he hasn't been confirmed as a voice actor but if he is in the game does anyone believe he will voice Vanitas. Heck he made Sora sound a bit intimidating in Re Chain of memories so he should definetly be able to do the evil voice and laugh thing. --Nathbud789 00:58, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Is Vanitas really just a pawn?

Thanks Kaihedge and No.i for answering my question earlier. Now I have another. Why is Vanitas loyal to Master Xehanort? Surely a being of darkness such as Vanitas must have its own plans for victory? If not, does this mean that Vanitas was purposefully created by Master Xehanort this way so vanitas would be a pawn and no more? 169.139.1.20 15:24, May 27, 2010 (UTC)DialgaMan, the master of Time

No.i - I'm Ventus. Call me Ven. TALK - Leave this to me! ~ 16:32, May 27, 2010 (UTC) I think the reason Vanitas serves MX is because he is the darkness in Ventus' heart. And Ventus was already a servant to MX before Vanitas was even created. Besides, I don't think Vanitas is as strong as MX.

Trivia or Reference?

The reason for Vanitas's naming is formatted in a way that could actually improve formatting of the article if the explanation beneath the trivia fact was changed to a note/reference. - EternalNothingnessXIII 22:46, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Unversed?

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA So im looking throughout the wiki and i notice that everyone seems to agree that Vanitas is an unversed, but if he was born from the darkness in ventus's heart, wouldn't that make him a heartless?

Vanitas isn't an Unversed and he isn't a Heartless either. His a human with a heart of pure darkness and is also made from complete darkness - JTD95 13:56, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Wrong. Vanitas does not have a heart. He was simply born from all of the darkness harbored in Ventus' heart, but that doesn't mean that he himself has one. We consider him an Unversed because his very origin, essence and nature says so, not to mention he spawned them. Kaihedgie 15:12, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Ah, but he DOES have a heart. remember, the X-blade is formed from to hearts, one of pure light and one of pure darkness, intersecting. How could Ventus and Vanitas formed the X-blade if Vanitas has no heart?