Talk:Seifer

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I disagree with claiming Seifer was being totally mocking (with zero sincerity) when he mentioned the possibility of friendship with Roxas. If NinjaSheik has something we can both find satisfactory, go for it. Another possibility is just erasing the friendship part entirely. [[User:Soroxas|Soroxas]] ([[User talk:Soroxas|talk]]) 19:48, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

:His tone in that line was, in the English dub, very sarcastic. The wording of the line is also very aggressive. The journal talks about there being bad blood between Seifer and Hayner's gang, and as soon as Sora shows up, Seifer accuses them of being there to pick a fight. It's possible the line was a prelude to his eventual grudging respect for Sora, who didn't have the "bad blood" between them, but at the moment in time he gave that line, it seemed pretty clear he still hated Roxas.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:48, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

::That was also part of my reasoning I presented before. Seifer and Roxas clearly are being antaognistic towards each other: facial expression, body language, tone, and dialogue makes this very clear. But I'd like to go a bit deeper, as Soroxas made the remark that I was "forcing my interpretation" of the scene rather than relying on what's objectively shown in the scene. In fact, completely disregarding the tone, the dialogue itself clearly indicates Seifer was being sarcastic in his scene with Roxas. First, here is the scene in the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5XsJTbBcqk&list=PL9LJDo1akA8EZl8NVOrgcgsDJ0jBF59FC&index=4 Japanese] and [https://youtu.be/WTeauA6vaPI?t=12m49s the English] versions of the game. From the beginning, the argument Soroxas presented was contradictory, as ~~she~~ kept pointing back the sarcastic line Seifer said without bothering to look at the following that makes it clear Seifer was being mocking in this scene. The conversation is as followed:

::That was also part of my reasoning I presented before. Seifer and Roxas clearly are being antaognistic towards each other: facial expression, body language, tone, and dialogue makes this very clear. But I'd like to go a bit deeper, as Soroxas made the remark that I was "forcing my interpretation" of the scene rather than relying on what's objectively shown in the scene. In fact, completely disregarding the tone, the dialogue itself clearly indicates Seifer was being sarcastic in his scene with Roxas. First, here is the scene in the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5XsJTbBcqk&list=PL9LJDo1akA8EZl8NVOrgcgsDJ0jBF59FC&index=4 Japanese] and [https://youtu.be/WTeauA6vaPI?t=12m49s the English] versions of the game. From the beginning, the argument Soroxas presented was contradictory, as they kept pointing back the sarcastic line Seifer said without bothering to look at the following that makes it clear Seifer was being mocking in this scene. The conversation is as followed:

:::'''Seifer''': "Why does looking at you always tick me off?"

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:Fourthly, I stand by my point that you thinking there's no sincerity at all from Seifer is still an interpretation (not a fact) of that scene, and that by denying all possible sincerity and rejecting my interpretation as a possibility, you're pushing an interpretation. But that's enough about that, or we'll keep going in circles. At the end of the day, we can't know all of Seifer's true intentions during that scene, so we should leave it open ended. Like the lyrics of Don't Think Twice from KH3, sometimes people can say things they don't really mean. [[User:Soroxas|Soroxas]] ([[User talk:Soroxas|talk]]) 22:22, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

:::Ah, apologies. I actually meant to put a dash there it would be "s/he" to keep it gender-neutral, but I suppose "they" would be better. I fixed the typo now.

:::And I will have to continue to disagree with you. You mentioned you're not denying the rivalry between the two, but your counterargument in the second post, you argue based on a possibilities and not really providing an argument based on the evidence given to us. All you've given is opinions and the hope their relationship has changed at that point in the game, despite a few seconds before that, Seifer admits that he gets ticked off by looking at Roxas and we can seeing them glaring at each other. You aren't really giving anything to support your conclusion based what's in the game, only your opinions.

:::It is a fact. Body language, facial expressions, tone, dialogue, and context, plus the additional information included in the game itself, outright confirms it. You are continuing to insist upon your own interpretation, disregarding the evidence I presented and having none to present yourself, so yes, we'll agree to disagree. As per policy, I'd like to request other users to chime in and voice their thoughts so we can close this matter.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 22:42, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

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 I disagree with claiming Seifer was being totally mocking (with zero sincerity) when he mentioned the possibility of friendship with Roxas. If NinjaSheik has something we can both find satisfactory, go for it. Another possibility is just erasing the friendship part entirely. [[User:Soroxas|Soroxas]] ([[User talk:Soroxas|talk]]) 19:48, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
 :His tone in that line was, in the English dub, very sarcastic. The wording of the line is also very aggressive. The journal talks about there being bad blood between Seifer and Hayner's gang, and as soon as Sora shows up, Seifer accuses them of being there to pick a fight. It's possible the line was a prelude to his eventual grudging respect for Sora, who didn't have the "bad blood" between them, but at the moment in time he gave that line, it seemed pretty clear he still hated Roxas.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:48, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
-::That was also part of my reasoning I presented before. Seifer and Roxas clearly are being antaognistic towards each other: facial expression, body language, tone, and dialogue makes this very clear. But I'd like to go a bit deeper, as Soroxas made the remark that I was "forcing my interpretation" of the scene rather than relying on what's objectively shown in the scene. In fact, completely disregarding the tone, the dialogue itself clearly indicates Seifer was being sarcastic in his scene with Roxas. First, here is the scene in the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5XsJTbBcqk&list=PL9LJDo1akA8EZl8NVOrgcgsDJ0jBF59FC&index=4 Japanese] and [https://youtu.be/WTeauA6vaPI?t=12m49s the English] versions of the game. From the beginning, the argument Soroxas presented was contradictory, as she kept pointing back the sarcastic line Seifer said without bothering to look at the following that makes it clear Seifer was being mocking in this scene. The conversation is as followed:
+::That was also part of my reasoning I presented before. Seifer and Roxas clearly are being antaognistic towards each other: facial expression, body language, tone, and dialogue makes this very clear. But I'd like to go a bit deeper, as Soroxas made the remark that I was "forcing my interpretation" of the scene rather than relying on what's objectively shown in the scene. In fact, completely disregarding the tone, the dialogue itself clearly indicates Seifer was being sarcastic in his scene with Roxas. First, here is the scene in the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5XsJTbBcqk&list=PL9LJDo1akA8EZl8NVOrgcgsDJ0jBF59FC&index=4 Japanese] and [https://youtu.be/WTeauA6vaPI?t=12m49s the English] versions of the game. From the beginning, the argument Soroxas presented was contradictory, as they kept pointing back the sarcastic line Seifer said without bothering to look at the following that makes it clear Seifer was being mocking in this scene. The conversation is as followed:
 :::'''Seifer''': "Why does looking at you always tick me off?"
@@ Line 63: / Line 63: @@
 :Fourthly, I stand by my point that you thinking there's no sincerity at all from Seifer is still an interpretation (not a fact) of that scene, and that by denying all possible sincerity and rejecting my interpretation as a possibility, you're pushing an interpretation. But that's enough about that, or we'll keep going in circles. At the end of the day, we can't know all of Seifer's true intentions during that scene, so we should leave it open ended. Like the lyrics of Don't Think Twice from KH3, sometimes people can say things they don't really mean. [[User:Soroxas|Soroxas]] ([[User talk:Soroxas|talk]]) 22:22, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
+:::Ah, apologies. I actually meant to put a dash there it would be "s/he" to keep it gender-neutral, but I suppose "they" would be better. I fixed the typo now.
+:::And I will have to continue to disagree with you. You mentioned you're not denying the rivalry between the two, but your counterargument in the second post, you argue based on a possibilities and not really providing an argument based on the evidence given to us. All you've given is opinions and the hope their relationship has changed at that point in the game, despite a few seconds before that, Seifer admits that he gets ticked off by looking at Roxas and we can seeing them glaring at each other. You aren't really giving anything to support your conclusion based what's in the game, only your opinions.
+:::It is a fact. Body language, facial expressions, tone, dialogue, and context, plus the additional information included in the game itself, outright confirms it. You are continuing to insist upon your own interpretation, disregarding the evidence I presented and having none to present yourself, so yes, we'll agree to disagree. As per policy, I'd like to request other users to chime in and voice their thoughts so we can close this matter.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 22:42, 25 June 2018 (UTC)