Talk:Ansem, Seeker of Darkness

Move?

Would anyone be opposed to moving this? "Xehanort's Heartless" is more what he is than one he's called. Maybe what he calls himself, i.e. Ansem, Seeker of Darkness? I'll go ahead and do it if no one objects over the next few days. Scottch 05:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I really think it should be called Xehanort's Heartless. Ansem may be a name he stole and uses, but it's not who he really is. It's what everyone in the game calls him, so why not here? DannyP 18:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Didn't see your reply, so this is late...

Anyway, it's definitely not the only thing he's called in the games, he's called that by a few characters even after it's been made clear who he is, especially at the end of the game. Besides, it's also the name he takes, it just makes more sense to me to call him by a name than an "object description", for lack of a better phrase. He's also called "Ansem" for a full two of the three games, and the first half of the last game (in the sparse times it's mentioned). Although he was originally thought to be Ansem the Wise and that turned out to be untrue, it doesn't change the fact that he identified as "Ansem" still. I guess it sort of comes down to "what's in a name", but I think the use of the name makes it his identity, even if it's based on a lie. Scottch 21:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Ansem, Seeker of Darkness was the name he chose, so that should be what the page is called. it shouldnt be what he is, Sora's page isnt called Kingdom Key weilder, thats what he is not who he is. 1a2b3c 11:50, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree this page sould be called Ansem, Seeker of Darkness just like Xemnas page is Xemnas and not Xehanort's Nobody also the name could be consider a bit of a spoiler to those who haven't played KHII.Masgrande 21:17, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Also, it shouldnt matter wether or not Ansem stole the name, all the oranization members stole there names from there former human selves. the only difference between the two is that Org. XIII made their names into anagrams.

Merger

I have another question. Couldn't we just merge this with the World of Chaos and Guardian? After all, both sections are stubs, and both creatures are never seen without him. Thoughts?

Good idea. It'd be a perfect fit for a battle technique kind of section. DannyP 15:52, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

abilites

sorry to bother the editors but I think there should be a section called abilites which lists all of "Ansems" named attacks. I know in kh he just grunted but every time he saves up 3 cards in chain of memories we see the name of the slate underneth.

sincerly luis

PS I also reckomend we do this with all other charectors but also file magic underneth abilites (only because very few charectors use spells) this should go with all charectors like tarzans healing herb ability (because it a heal)

That sounds like a very logical idea. I wouldn't mind doing that on various pages! Maybe even describe the attacks! Muhahahaha!

P.S. Your comments don't have to be letters.

P. S. S. Here, you sign using 4 tildes (~) 96.28.108.27 23:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

P. S. S. S. You aren't bothering the editors.

P. S. S. S. S. Would you like me to do a grammer check on your comment? It would make editors flock to your comment more! I really want your suggestion to happen!

just so you know when using multiple p.s. you and Ps not Ss example p.p.s ~~ottercat13~~

This page contridicts itself!

This page can't seem to decide if Xehanort's Heartless looks human because of strong will or a warped Riku. I'm not sure whether to delete one of the theories, show that they're theories, or a third option. Any ideas? 96.28.108.27 23:57, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Battles

Oath to Order - Aaah! Chainsaw! The great communicator! TALK - OtOcon^_- 21:37, 18 June 2008 (UTC) What to do? This is the character page. Where do I put the boss info? Separate? Apart?

Azul81677 - "Ebil minds think ebily alike." - A collaboration between 2 very ebil minds TALK - {{{time}}} Xehanort's Heartless (Boss)

Unsure about this statement

It says "Xehanort's Heartless body is actually Riku's body. When he fully gained control of it he changed the body's appearance" But wouldn't this imply that Riku had lost his body and become a heartless, and thus would have a Nobody? But since the latter two are untrue, I don't see how Xehanort's Heartless could have been doing anything other than making his own form look like Riku's on Destiny Islands at the end of the game. Can someone explain?

Twoface13 - There's someone with a "key" -- the key to our survival. TALK - No... They'll pay for this! It's true that Riku lost his Body but kept his heart. Therefore he does not have a nobody, nor is he a heartless. However as Xehanort's heartless uses his Riku's body, he could be considered Riku's nobody. But he's not. He uses Riku's body because it was drawn to the Darkness, and he lost his true body. Xehanort's Heartless already had a set figure, and Riku's body changed to his form.

Ruler

KrytenKoro - "It is often said that before you die your life passes before your eyes. It is in fact true. It's called living." TALK - When, and of what, exactly?

I didn't put that category there. But come to think of it, wasn't he the one who usurped Ansem the Wise's leadership ? By banishing Ansem to the Realm of Nothingness, his Heartless became the ruler of what was then known as Hollow Bastion, whilst his Nobody took charge of The World that Never Was. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne

Flashpenny - You'll wear the face of despair. TALK - Where's the fun in this? He's the ruler of the End of the World, the final level that is in and of itself the Heartless HQ. It's all but outright said that's probably the King of Heartless or something like that. Also Trois, I'm pretty sure that when Ansem was at his biggest threat Maleficent was the ruler of Hollow Bastion, not Ansem.

I was talking about immediately after Ansem the Wise was banished...... Of course Maleficent took over HB later but then, what's the essence of it ? There are some things even the stars cannot tell me. • TroisNyxÉtienne — 03:06, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Names - Unsure

Just looked at the Riku Replica page, and noticed it calling Xehanort's Heartless "Ansem." Is this because he wasn't known as Xehanort's Heartless at the time of CoM? I think it makes more sense calling him by his true name....Endless Oblivion

"Xehanort's Heartless" isn't a name, though, and "Ansem" belongs to him just as much as the Organization member's names belong to themselves. He was attempting to take someone's reputation, yes, but "Ansem" is still who the Heartless was.

Plus, it's a rather large part of the plot, them not knowing who DiZ is yet and thinking the Heartless was Ansem, and it would be confusing to anyone who's not played KH2 yet.Glorious CHAOS! 16:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Eternal Nothingness XIII - I'm not afraid of what the darkness holds now. Even if you do wrest control of my heart from me, even if you cast me into the deepest, darkest abyss, you'll never sway me from the one cause that pushes me to keep on fighting. Whatever the cost, I'm ready to pay it. TALK - There's darkness within me... So what does that matter? I know I'm strong enough to hold it back. I see how that makes sense...Thanks.

Other forms

Well, his cloaked form is his true Heartless form, while his fancy silver-haired form is merely how he manipulates riku's body (perhaps that's what Riku will look like grown up?) So we should be clear on that in the article.

Also, we might want to have a section covering the guardian, though there's not really much to say beyond battle stuff. We should add as much non-battle info as we can, though.

Eternal Nothingness XIII - I'm not afraid of what the darkness holds now. Even if you do wrest control of my heart from me, even if you cast me into the deepest, darkest abyss, you'll never sway me from the one cause that pushes me to keep on fighting. Whatever the cost, I'm ready to pay it. TALK - There's darkness within me... So what does that matter? I know I'm strong enough to hold it back. — 11:18, 16 July 2009 (UTC) By Cloaked, do you mean the Organization Cloak or the cloak from KH1? And no, I don't think that he attained that form because of controlling Riku. Xehanort had hair similar to that, and so does Xemnas...Xemnas is closer in hair design to Xehanort because he is Xehanort's empty body given new life after the Xehanort's Heartless was born.It specifically says Xehanort retained his physical appearance as a Heartless and Nobody. That means the "fancy" silver-haired form IS his true form. He just wore the cloak from KH1 to disguise himself until the time was right. But I don't know... and since the Guardian is not truly counted as a Heartless, I say we merge it. And the Guardian is actually a part of Xehanort's Heartless...

Battle Quotes

• "Come."
• "Is that it?"
• "Kneel!"
• "You give up yet?"
• "Show me your power!"
• "Now witness true Power!"
• "Welcome Oblivion."
• "Here it comes!"
• "Behold the power of Darkness!"
• "Open your heart to Darkness!"

Eternal Nothingness XIII - The three of us can never be torn apart, all right? I'll always find a way. TALK - When I really need you, Ven, I know you'll be there. — 15:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC) Question to those who could answer. Why are these the only battle quotes on his page? These are technically Riku's... Shouldn't we instead use his quotes from End of the World? I understand he controlled Riku when he used these quotes, but we don't use the Dark Riku battle video on his page, so this doesn't make sense...

Well, let's see : the quotes from the actual Xehanort's Heartless I can think of are... "Come, guardian!" "Submit!!" "Come, open your heart." "Insolent." "What do you hope to accomplish?" "Do not deny." "My strength returns..." "The final darkness returns." Correct me if I'm wrong, and use these quotes where you see fit. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne — 03:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Dark Force XIII - I sense a disturbance.... TALK - 22:20, August 30, 2010 (UTC) These quotes are awesome

Help!

It's me, Mar1. I tried to copy paste the old Guardian on this page, but it's all messed up! Somone please help!

Theres already a picture of the Guardian on here..What old Guardian photo are you talking about? Xion4ever Who am I? — 18:38, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

Never mind, it's under control.

Why

Why the f**k does everyone keep the deleting the guardian section?!

Why?!

xNaminéx - 大キライだけど好き! TALK - I am...glad. Mainly because there is absolutely no reason for the Guardian to have its own section, as most if not all of the attacks are made by the Guardian, wich will lead to it being mentioned numorous other times thoughout the article. Not to mention the fact that the "Xehanort's Heartless's Guardian" section was a short, puny group of sentences that had little information and didn't need its own section. That's why the f**k we keep deleteing it.

I just think the Guardian should get it's own page back.

KrytenKoro - "Hurricane beats all housing or apartments. This sucker is a Cat-6!" TALK - Because the edit was absolute trash. The story bit was completely redundant to the story covering when Riku took Xehanort's form. The "speculation" was not only completely ridiculous, but the links all pointed in the wrong directions. The edit ripped up a ref note. The rest of it is all battle strategy info, which is covered on the boss page. Finally, "Guardian" is not its name. "Guardian" is a Surveillance-type Heartless. The only thing we know about Ansem's guardian is that it always appears with him, even when it's actually Riku. Thus, there's no reason to believe it's not simply the Pureblood part of Xehanort's Heartless.

y'know,, you don't have to be dicks about it, guys.

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - No. Sora forgave me even when I deceived him. So, how could I destroy his heart? There's no way! I don't care what happens to me. I won't hurt Sora! I won't do it! Hey! Watch your mouth! Don't speak to Kryten-sama like that!

LotsoBearLover - Welcome to sunnyside! TALK - You've got a playdate with destiny!" OMG THAT WAS MEAN! ALL BECAUSE OF A STUPID SECTION! YEAH DON"T SPEAK LIKE THAT D:<

Kryten... Sama? Huh??

Hey, I just want to make this Wiki better!

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - No. Sora forgave me even when I deceived him. So, how could I destroy his heart? There's no way! I don't care what happens to me. I won't hurt Sora! I won't do it! Well, there's no reason for you to say that about Kryten-sama! He's a good person!

Why are you calling people dicks when you started this argument with a random swear...?—Urutapu 23:51, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

I was just frusterated because everyone kept deleting the guardian area, after it took five minutes just TO FREAKIN' COPY-PASTE!

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - No. Sora forgave me even when I deceived him. So, how could I destroy his heart? There's no way! I don't care what happens to me. I won't hurt Sora! I won't do it! Calm down. I get frusterated because of the edit conflicts, but you don't see me yelling at someone when that happens. And who's delating it? Kryten-sama?

Why do you keep adding on "Sama"? I digress. I just felt That Ansem's Guardian need some of his own recognition.

And I don't know who's deleting it.

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - No. Sora forgave me even when I deceived him. So, how could I destroy his heart? There's no way! I don't care what happens to me. I won't hurt Sora! I won't do it! I add "Sama" to the end of Kryten-sama's name because I respect him highly for the work he have done here on the wiki. You don't know who delate it? Look at the History, then.

It was Kryten! And he said it was trash!

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - No. Sora forgave me even when I deceived him. So, how could I destroy his heart? There's no way! I don't care what happens to me. I won't hurt Sora! I won't do it! That still doesn't give the right to call Kryten=sama the "D" word! He's a staff member! He knows what's best!

Firaga44 - Look at you you think you have it so damn hard!You hate being alone so let people in! TALK - Your ablity to mess with time-is coming to a end! yeah i agree!you can't just go around calling people that!

He may have been here longer than I have, but C'mon? Give a kid a break?!

xNaminéx - 大キライだけど好き! TALK - I am...glad. @anon:Don't call anyone means names and solve thing civally. There are easier ways to solve problems without swearing, name-calling, and blaming. @NinjaSheik, Firaga, GB:The anon does not need to be bullied back in gang form. Kryten is a big boy and I'm sure he would have said something on his own if he felt it necessary.

Let's drop this shall we? We're just spamming up the wiki and bashing Mar. Mar (please sign with the sig button or use your talkbubble), your reaction was unnecessary and wrong. Let's live it at that; Yes, what Mar did was wrong, that section will be/is deleted, and Kryten was right. No wiki fights please! Xion4ever Who am I? — 00:18, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

That's fine. I'm sorry, I usually just ;ash out at others when they lash out at me. After a long day of being bullied at school, I just have a whole bunch of anger boiling inside me. It's just kind of hard to contain myself. Mar1 00:25, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Hello? Anybody? Mar 00:41, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

KrytenKoro - This is the song that runs under the credits; these are the credits, so this is where it goes. 'has nothing to do with the movie so we'll say, "Hey! Hey! Hey hey hey hey hey hey!" TALK - If the anon is going to cuss, then I feel perfectly justified in being frank about the lousiness of the edit. I re-added as much information as could be salvaged - most of it was, as I explained, trash. The guardian does not need specifically separate coverage, as it is simply an extension of the rest of Xehanort's Heartless, as the article covers. I'm a staff member. Not a god. Please stop calling me "sama". If you're frustrated about your work being deleted, don't put it on a wiki, or at least, back it up. I have ten years of notes and fan-documents on my PC, and only a small fraction of them are ported to wikis. As the editing notice says "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here."

Firaga44 - Everyone's favorite anime nerd is back and kicking!Well not everyone's favorite but you people get the idea >.< TALK - All i hear during that cutscene blah blah blah. yeah those are the rules and i have to apoligize for the outburst by me

Shouldn't there be warnings for the spoilers? If someone new to the game read even some of the article, sure he's/she's confused and reads just more?

Just suggesting.

After a certain point, it becomes ridiculous to concede to spoiler warnings - for example, everyone knows how King Kong or the Sixth Sense ends, it would be strange for us to have spoiler warnings on articles like that.

Currently, only information on Days, Mobile, coded, and BBS has spoiler warnings, as they are new/have not been released.Glorious CHAOS! 17:02, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

the picture...

Falcon Mrk II - That secret stays with me. TALK - 02:10, January 16, 2010 (UTC) Um...shouldn't someone size down the infobox picture? I would, but I don't know how.

Appearance

I just noticed something that I think is worth noting. In the World of Chaos battle he doesn't just become shirtless, but he doubles in size and his eyes become completely orange. Go watch the first battles and the World of Chaos battle and you can see it is true. I just fought him again last night. That's how I could tell. Sora was barely the size of his torso. Randomnessity Looks like you're already prepared.

Xabryn - I don't care if you're real!You're not better! TALK - It's nice to have darkness on my side.{{{time}}} he being bigger is kinda obivious i don't know how it wasn't on the article but i didn't notice the eyes. Also his boots become part of his pant and his pant also change

I still think it's worth noting. He grows double the size at least. I don't see how that wouldn't be mentionable. Randomnessity Looks like you're already prepared.

LevL Fear my mighty instruments! — 18:27, February 4, 2010 (UTC) I agree that it should be in the article.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? Change away.

You know Lapis that is sort of your specialty... Randomnessity Looks like you're already prepared.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? 'Kay, got it.

Did it better than I would've. :D Randomnessity Looks like you're already prepared.

Moving the Article

Disneyvillainman - I'm what you might call an expert in the art of Darkness. TALK - Rather a stubborn ol' goat, wouldn't ya say? I think moving this article to Ansem the Seeker of Darkness or Ansem (Xehanort's Heartless) would be for the best. We use Xemnas's choosen name even though it is an amalgam of Ansem instead of Xehanort's Nobody so why not use the name that this heartless took for himself. He's known as Ansem for 2 1/2 games and the name of the article is a spoiler for those who haven't played KHII yet and have only played the first game. Any thoughts?

KrytenKoro - And when you see me standing there, you'll know you've got a friend with a rock, I mean a big-ass rock. TALK - "Ansem, Seeker of Darkness" is the title he gave himself, just like "Ansem the Wise" is the title the original gave himself. I agree with such a move.

Xabryn - I don't care if you're real!You're not better! TALK - It's nice to have darkness on my side.04:52, March 20, 2010 (UTC) I like the idea but it can cause much confusion between Ansem the Wise and Ansem The Seeker of Darkness

Disneyvillainman - I'm what you might call an expert in the art of Darkness. TALK - Rather a stubborn ol' goat, wouldn't ya say? True, it may cause confusion, however, it's pretty much the same thing as Jack Sparrow and Jack Skellington. They both have the same name but a different following name just like Ansem the wise and Ansem the Seeker of Darkness but we don't call Skellington The Pumpkin King to avoid confusion so I think that a move would be for the best.

Xabryn - I don't care if you're real!You're not better! TALK - It's nice to have darkness on my side.15:54, March 20, 2010 (UTC) Maybe you're right

Eternal Nothingness XIII - Ven, Aqua... I'll find some way to make things right. TALK - This light... it's so warm. — 15:58, March 20, 2010 (UTC) I am 100% against this. Moving the page to a title that has since been proven false (Xehanort's Heartless became the new title since KH2, as it should be). Both Ansem the Seeker of Darkness and Ansem fit this category. Not to mention it would screw up several links across the Wiki.

Disneyvillainman - I'm what you might call an expert in the art of Darkness. TALK - Rather a stubborn ol' goat, wouldn't ya say? True the name has been proven false but so has Xemnas's name. Ansem is the name that he picked for himself just as Xemnas is the name that his nobody picked for himself. If this page is going to remane Xehanort's Heartless because of that reason, then Xemnas's page should be moved to Xehanort's Nobody. Like I said before, I think Ansem (Xehanort's Heartless) would be the most appropriate title. As for causing problem on the wiki, it wouldn't mess up any links if we left a redirect behind and if we left (xehanort's Heartless in parenthesis, we wouldn't have to go through and change the text of multiple articles. But that's just my opinion on the matter. Feel free to disagree.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? Unless I'm mistaken (which is totally possible), he is called "Xehanort's Heartless" in the KHII Journal. Xemnas' name was in no way proven false. He's called "Xemnas" everywhere--including the Journal. And the entire Nobody naming system is based on the fact that they mix up the letters of their original beings' names and add an "X"--i.e. they pick the names themselves or have Xemnas pick them. By your logic we'd need to change "Roxas" to "Sora's Nobody" too. And what about the members without reveald original names? "Demyx's Original Being's Nobody"? The Xemnas analogy doesn't hold water. That said, "Ansem (Xehanort's Heartless)" isn't a bad idea (I like it better than "Ansem, the Seeker of Darkness; too wordy), but I'd still prefer what the journal calls him.

Eternal Nothingness XIII - Ven, Aqua... I'll find some way to make things right. TALK - This light... it's so warm. — 01:21, March 21, 2010 (UTC) Were I too side with either of the two titles, I'd suggest Ansem (Xehanort's Heartless), but I am in full agreement with LapisScarab. If the journal calls him Xehanort's Heartless, then we should do that here, as well. My point is we should leave the article as-is. Two names would lead to things like changing Ansem the Wise to Ansem the Wise (DiZ) and Pete to Pete (Captain Pete) (Captain Justice) (Captain Dark). It'd be too confusing and unnecessary.

Disneyvillainman - I'm what you might call an expert in the art of Darkness. TALK - Rather a stubborn ol' goat, wouldn't ya say? I see your points and I do agree that he should be called what the journal calls him even if it's more of an adjective that a name. All the same, I still feel that Ansem (Xehanort's Heartless) would be the best name. In response to what LapisScarab said, what I meant by Xemnas's name being proven false is that it's an amalgam of Ansem with an X added even though his priginal name wasn't Ansem. However, we still call him that because that was his choosen name and we don't call him Xehanort's Nobody or some amalgam of Xehanort with another X added so I feel that we should apply the same standards to this character. In response to EO, I don't think we'd have to change the names of those articles because their titles are their true names that everyone calls them (e.i.: the article is caused Ansem the Wise so adding (Diz) would be the eqivilent of moving this article to Xehanort's Heartless (Ansem)). This has an adjective decribing the character as the title so it's a bit different but I do see your point.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? Of course we don't use an anagram of "Xehanort" with an "X" added. We don't make up names here. We call him Xemnas because he's called that in every Journal entry in the series, and because there's no one else to confuse him with. I think that's another big reason as to why we changed this page to "Xehanort's Heartless"; to differentiate "Ansem" and "Ansem the Wise". And in response to the "everyone calls him Ansem" thing, dont the characters in KHII stop calling him Ansem and start using "Xehanort's Heartless" once they learn who he is?

Eternal Nothingness XIII - You have to be strong. Strength of heart will carry you through the hardest of trials. TALK - What I do, I do for friendship. — 01:53, March 21, 2010 (UTC) Lapis is correct. As put so eloquently by Sora : "Wait, Ansem! I mean, Xehanort's Heartless..." And Mickey... "Riku left, well, because Xehanort's Heartless was still inside his heart, troubling him." I rest my case.

Disneyvillainman - I'm what you might call an expert in the art of Darkness. TALK - Rather a stubborn ol' goat, wouldn't ya say? All I'm saying is that he was called Ansem for two and a half games (three and a half if you count Reverse/Rebirth as a seperate game) and those looking for information on Ansem from the original Kingdom Hearts that have only played the original Kingdom Hearts would find themselves in the mist of a major spoiler for the series. Just to make it clearer, I think we should go with Ansem (Xehanort's Heartless) since it uses the name that he choose for himself with the true identity of the character in parenthesis.

At the very end of the game, they call it Xehanort's Heartless. However, it is still called "Ansem" in Days, which was released after KH2, indicating that it's still a valid name. It is also the name that it gave itself, which is much more valid from an in-universe perspective than the weird moniker Sora and Mickey give him. There is also a lot of pages on the wiki that still call it "Ansem" because it doesn't make sense to be calling it Xehanort's Heartless in respect to KH1, CoM, and Days.Glorious CHAOS! 02:35, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? They learn that he is not Ansem halfway through the game, though. Days is chronologically behind KHII, and thus behind when the characters learned who he was, right? As for spoilers, they are almost unavoidable on the wiki, especially for the first game's characters. And doesn't the title "Ansem (Xehanort's Heartless)" give the connection away immediately? I was under the impression that our policy was to use the most recent name of a charatcer, but if we must move it (which I'm still not convinced is needed), perhaps "Ansem (Heartless)" would be better, at least to avoid spoilers?

Disneyvillainman - I'm what you might call an expert in the art of Darkness. TALK - Rather a stubborn ol' goat, wouldn't ya say? Ansem (Heartless) is a good idea but I still think Ansem (Xehanort's Heartless) is a little bit better. True it is a spoiler but it at least makes the article a bit easier to find. People who know him as Xehanort's Heartless could easily find the article and those who know him as Ansem would also, in theory be able to find the article better.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? Now you've changed your reasoning for the move. Are you concered with spoilers? If so then it would be better to leave out "Xehanort's" which spoils the fact that they are connected. If you're concerned about confusing people who know him as Xehanort's Heartless, the best way to avoid that would to, well, not move the article.

KrytenKoro - "Space Corp Directive 195—In an emergency power situation, a hologrammatic crew member must lay down his life in order that the living crew members might survive."  "Yes, but Rimmer Directive 271 states just as clearly: 'No chance, you metal bastard.'" TALK - I prefer a "most proper name" approach, I guess, and since there's no reason why "Ansem, Seeker of Darkness" is any less valid than "Xemnas", I would choose that. I mean, while Xehanort may have been masquerading as Ansem the Wise, and that's false, there's no real reason to say that the Heartless isn't allowed to name itself. I got the distinct impression from KH2 that they were not trying to use its proper name - they were trying to keep from confusing themselves, and they were continuing with the incredibly rude bit they had been going on for that game - talking to intelligent Heartless and Nobody as if they were just objects, and not people, i.e., they would call Roxas "Sora's Nobody" (and I recall that people do in Days and KHII, any way, especially DiZ). Basically, "Xehanort's Heartless" is what he is, not who he is, and since he was already calling himself Ansem before he became a Heartless, the new entity was only ever known as "Ansem, Seeker of Darkness". It's the difference between calling it a "Red Nocturne" or a "fire-using flying Heartless". They're both technically correct, and are used in the journals and games, but one is obviously more proper.

Disneyvillainman - I'm what you might call an expert in the art of Darkness. TALK - Rather a stubborn ol' goat, wouldn't ya say? @LapisScarab I didn't change my reason for the move. There are several reasons and I'm just putting them all out there. Spoilers are only one reason why it should be moved (but a more minor reason). The main reason why I think we should move the article, as I've said before, is because Xehanort's Heartless only describes the character and that Ansem is the name he choose for himself. @KrytenKoro I never thought about it that way but you make a very good point. The name DOES seem to be a way of talking down to the character. This only confirms my belief that this article should be moved.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? I don't have much more to say. Summary: If we do change it, my vote is for "Ansem (Heartless)" for the reasons I mentioned above, but I suppose "Ansem, the Seeker of Darkness" could work too. I'm not totally convinced that we need to move it, but it's just one opinion.

Disneyvillainman - I'm what you might call an expert in the art of Darkness. TALK - Rather a stubborn ol' goat, wouldn't ya say? Maybe we should just hold a poll for the name change and whichever option (Xehanort's Heartless, Ansem (Xehanort's Heartless), Ansem (Heartless), or Ansem the Seeker of Darkness) gets the most votes, we'll go with that one. What do you think?

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? Creating a forum for this along with a poll seems like a good idea.

Disneyvillainman - I'm what you might call an expert in the art of Darkness. TALK - Rather a stubborn ol' goat, wouldn't ya say? Alright then. Let's do it. Anyone interesting in talking about further discussing the move or voting on the move, please go here: http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Moving_the_Xehanort%27s_Heartless_Page&t=20100321150917

Chihuahuaman I herd u liek UNVERSED MUDKIPZ! — {{{time}}} I DON'T KNOW OR CARE HOW OLD THIS ARGUMENT IS BUT WE ARE ONLY SUPPOSED TO USE OFFICIAL NAMES FOR GODS SAKE!!! *cools down* All i am trying to say is that we should use Xehanort's Heartless and not this un-official fan name that someone thought up.

iZerox Think I'll pass. My heart won't be in it. Don't have one, you know? — 18:52, September 30, 2010 (UTC) Get your facts straight. Tetsuya Nomura said himself that the name was Ansem, Seeker of Darkness. "In an interview, Nomura said that Xehanort spawned a Nobody, Xemnas, and a Heartless, Ansem, Seeker of Darkness. This confirms that the proper name for the Heartless is Ansem, Seeker of Darkness." It's not a fan name. It's quite official and where Kingdom Hearts is concered Tetsuya Nomura's word is law and overrides all. Besides this was sorted out ages ago no need to bring it back up. ><

Chihuahuaman What did i do!? What did YOU do!?!? — 23:05, September 30, 2010 (UTC) Alright. I'm sorry. I'm just kind of angry because i have a CYST ON THE BASE OF MY SPINE!!!!!!! And it hurts like hell!!! But sorry, i'm just kind of angry.

Moving to Ansem, Seeker of Darkness

Disneyvillainman - I'm what you might call an expert in the art of Darkness. TALK - Rather a stubborn ol' goat, wouldn't ya say? I realise that the moving debate was resolved, however, the new information brought up in the forum about an interview with Nomura has called attention to a name change. I think that since someone added a template at the top of the article about this, we should have a discussion section for it.

Indeed. Everyone please direct their attention to this forum for the reason this new change was proposed. LapisScarab Good tidings, friends. Today is a momentous day. I am pleased to announce that a new comrade has been chosen to wear the coat. — 23:24, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Disneyvillainman - I'm what you might call an expert in the art of Darkness. TALK - Rather a stubborn ol' goat, wouldn't ya say? If no one is in opposition to the move, I say we go ahead with it.

Voice Actor Change

Does anybody really know to why his voice actor was replaced? Even the flashback scenes in KH2 used his new voice actor.

Nathbud789 22:16, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Disneyvillainman - I'm what you might call an expert in the art of Darkness. TALK - Rather a stubborn ol' goat, wouldn't ya say? The Kingdom Hearts people and Billy Zane had a few disagreements so they had to recast.

And I also thought it was due to critical reception ? Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne — 01:40, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

i personally thought billy zane was better than the other guy Yojimbo and diagoro 20:45, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Personality

This might sound stupid, but is Xehanort's Heartless the only heartless with human-level intelligence? Scar becomes a heartless and he seems as smart as the average human. Shouldn't it say the only heartless with above human level intelligence? (Bananaphone1996 00:23, April 15, 2010 (UTC))

Sora became a heartless and he had human level intelligence--Xabryn 00:42, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Betterpic

LegoAlchemist - They changed "Snipe Magnet" to "Magnet Grab"? Who's translating this game, 4kids? TALK - Friendships are in direct contravention of mercenary conduct as delineated in your contracts, and on a personal note: I am very, very, disappointed with you. Why, may I ask, are we not using this image for his main pic?: It seems good enought to me.

Xabryn - I don't care if you're real!You're not better! TALK - It's nice to have darkness on my side.{{{time}}} Probably because we didn't knew about this image existence but i guess you're right it should be the main pic so I'm changing it

Eternal Nothingness XIII - You have to be strong. Strength of heart will carry you through the hardest of trials. TALK - What I do, I do for friendship. — 19:18, May 6, 2010 (UTC) I am against using this image as the Infobox image. True, it's higher quality, but it's not an OFFICIAL image. We should only be using what is OFFICIAL!

Isn't it a render? How official does it need to be, for crying out loud? --Neumannz 19:38, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

Look around the Wiki. All we have/use is OFFICIAL images. This was obtained when someone animated a T-shaped mod of Ansem. Thus, it is a FAN IMAGE. - EternalNothingnessXIII 19:41, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

KrytenKoro - Pinocchio with his nose attached to the trigger of a rifle, which points at his face as he says, "I want to live!" TALK - On one hand, the gamesprite is low quality, even though it's larger, but on the other, our guide image is kind of small. Honestly, both seem "official" to me. As long as it isn't fake crap like the first Vanitas Keyblade image (where someone inserted their own speculation of the hilt) or the Fresh Breeze image (which was made wholecloth on a graphics editor, and had so many errors it was laughable), it should be fine. We use sprites ripped from the games all over the place. Right now, though, I think our pic is fine. It's just large enough, and is the higher quality image. If we can get it bigger, that's daisies, but I don't think we need a betterpic template.

LegoAlchemist - They changed "Snipe Magnet" to "Magnet Grab"? Who's translating this game, 4kids? TALK - Friendships are in direct contravention of mercenary conduct as delineated in your contracts, and on a personal note: I am very, very, disappointed with you. Hmm... all right, Kryten. But that's certainly not stopping him from being on Radiant Garden's page.

Trivia

Shouldn't the fact that he is the only known Heartless that can speak be under his trivia section?

He's not. Sora's Heartless.Glorious CHAOS! 05:55, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

ZexionFan321 - Don't I even warrant a hello, Lexaeus? TALK - I have identified the scent. It is...Riku. — 15:27, May 23, 2010 (UTC) Sora's Heartless never speaks though.

Guess you never saw coded Kaihedgie 17:00, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

ZexionFan321 - Don't I even warrant a hello, Lexaeus? TALK - I have identified the scent. It is...Riku. — 15:27, May 23, 2010 (UTC) Well then maybe the trivia should say, "Xehanort's Heartless along with Sora's are the only two known to be able to speak."

KrytenKoro - Pinocchio with his nose attached to the trigger of a rifle, which points at his face as he says, "I want to live!" TALK - It's already a amjor plot detail that they're the only ones that keep their identity. Why put it in the trivia as well?

Disneyvillainman - I'm what you might call an expert in the art of Darkness. TALK - Rather a stubborn ol' goat, wouldn't ya say? But wait: Scar's heartless speaks and keeps his physical appearance and personality upon becoming a heartless as well.

Re:Appearance

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Did anyone else notice that Ansem's face is almost exactly identical to master xehanort's?

Hotdragon 295 - I...will never be a memory. TALK - Descend, heartless angel. - 20:09, July 13, 2010 (UTC) Sure!!!

Renders and Artwork

Why is everyone insistent on using crappy, I repeat, crappy renders when his official artwork is the absolute best official image of him there ever will be? Every official render of Ansem sucks. In fact, I've yet to see a good render of anything on this site. They're all blurry and have tattered edges. What do the people of this website have against clean, 2D artwork? Or are they all just 3D-whores? Dachimotsu7734 02:04, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, whining and insulting is the way to get your point across... One reason I can give you is that official artwork is not always true to the appearance of the character in the game. Take Lea for example. Also, that his official artwork is the "absolute best official image of him" is entirely your opinion.LapisLazuliScarab02:11, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

I apologize for the whore remark, but your response doesn't satisfy me. "Not always true to appearances" may be a good counter-argument for many characters, but not for Ansem. His appearance in-game is indentical to that of his artwork. The article has a header asking for a better image, so I gave it one. Opinion or no, I think everyone would agree that we'll never find a better picture for him than his artwork. Dachimotsu7734 02:24, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily. We could get a better render at a later date. I admit I don't know for certain, but I would imagine the reason we prefer to have renders as the main images for all the characters is for consistency. It's jarring to have 90% of the articles leading off with a render, and then a couple major ones with artwork.LapisLazuliScarab02:37, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia

Organization 13 - If only the whispers at the top of the ladder carried to the bottom rung... TALK - Parley! "Ansem appears to have characteristics of both Emblem and Pureblood Heartless, in both his human and world forms. In both forms, he carries the Heartless Emblem on his chest, the distinguishing mark of an Emblem Heartless. Though this could possibly be an article of clothing for his human form, the emblem is notably absent from Master Xehanort version of the same outfit. Furthermore, the shadowy symbiote attached to him in both forms possesses the "hollow heart" shared by many other Pureblood Heartless. Though it is uncertain what the situation of this Heartless is, it is possible that this makes him both an Emblem and Pureblood Heartless." This sounds like either speculation or it should be re-worded.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? Seems like blatant speculation to me, and it's also redundant to the appearance section. It should be removed.

Lying Memories - What's your problem!? You both...think you can do whatever you want. Well, I'm sick of it. Go on, you just keep running! But I'll always be there to bring you back! TALK - So you really do remember me this time... I'm SO FLATTERED! But you're TOO LATE!!! — Lying Memories 19:37, July 21, 2010 (UTC) At the very least it should say something along the lines of him showing characteristics of both Emblem and Pureblood Heartless, and it's uncertain which group he falls into, if he falls into only one at all.