Talk:Neku Sakuraba

Death

UxieLover1994 Tiempo de morder de nuevo con el poder! El tema de hoy: su sorpresa! — 11:23, 15 September 2011 (UTC) That's odd. Death does not exist? But Barbossa, Hades and even Master Xehanort mention that word or something similar. EDIT: Well, if there is no such thing as death, that will mean that dead characters might come back, right? I hope so for Barbossa, but we should talk about this on a forum. The mainpage page is about Neku, y'know.

Sephiroth0812 - Let's see what this "Light" of yours can do! TALK - I see, so that's a keyblade... - 11:28, 15 September 2011 (UTC) I think it was once mentioned in one of the Ansem Reports or Secret Ansem Reports that when you separate body and soul then there's "death". Still, death in the sense we westerners think of it doesn't exist, as the heart and/or mind somehow remains and only gets to "sleep" and as long as this heart/mind is still connected to a living one => like TAV, Ansem the Wise etc. they can be "born anew from sleep" like said in Blank Points.

That'll support characters like ASOD and Xemnas, but not Barbossa or Clayton who literally die, for example. Major plot hole again, Nomura. There are some things even the stars cannot tell me. • TroisNyxÉtienne — 11:31, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

UxieLover1994 Nya? — 11:34, 15 September 2011 (UTC) There has to be some sort of afterlife. Even something similar to Aslan's Country in the Narnia series is good enough for me, y'know. Good characters (eg: Terra, Ventus) go there; evil characters (eg: Ursula, Scar, Lady Tremaine and her daughters) go to a place similar to Hell.

17master— "Hi, I'm the world famous talking Emerald Box!" And I like to eat HUMAN cupcakes. I think Barbossa said "undead", Hades is the "Lord of the Dead" and brings back Auron from the dead (yes, he used that term), as for Master Xehanort he said "'χ'... A most ancient letter. Some say 'kye,' but the meaning is the same. Death... A letter that spells endings." Well okay death does exist in the game but in the universe it's not. Besides, in TWEWY Neku and the other participants are already dead and only their existence are left, and thus making the Game the only way to get back into the world of living. Otherwise their existence will be erased and they, well, ceased to exist. EDIT: Ventus and Terra are NOT dead. And as for Ursula etc. I think they died, yes, but in their own universe, Disney universe, not Kingdom Hearts'.

Sephiroth0812 - Let's see what this "Light" of yours can do! TALK - I see, so that's a keyblade... - 11:39, 15 September 2011 (UTC) Pretty much seen with Auron, yup. Although I would it rather interpret as such that guys like Barbossa or Clayton just aren't deeply enough connected to a still living heart. Also, Maleficent also made a rather quirky comeback, lol. People like Terra and Ventus are rumored to return fully though, also they didn't really die per se. However, going out from Blank Points where all those saying Sora's name and maybe even a possible return of Xemnas and Ansem SoD, who knows what'll happen?

Look back at the journals: they always consider a change of circumstances for the people with the strongest hearts. So something uncanny is bound to happen to the main characters because of their extraordinary strength of heart. Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne — 11:51, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Sephiroth0812 - Let's see what this "Light" of yours can do! TALK - I see, so that's a keyblade... - 11:57, 15 September 2011 (UTC) Makes the whole thing even more intriguing...seems really like Nomura didn't invent all those original characters just to let them disappear, there will be more to it...especially with the main focus of DDD apparently on that data of Ansem the Wise.

KrytenKoro - You should have figured out whether bodies age without their hearts, Nomura. TALK - We really need to find the source for this whole "no death" thing, especially with the term being used within the scripts themselves.

I'm almost certain that it can be found within Director's Secret Report XIII. Which of course, leads to another direct contradiction between DSRXIII and Barbossa's, Clayton's and Xehanort's words. This monster... This is no Unversed. Just a dweller of Darkness. • TroisNyxÉtienne — 15:30, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Sephiroth0812 - Let's see what this "Light" of yours can do! TALK - I see, so that's a keyblade... - 15:32, 15 September 2011 (UTC) I found the main Nomura-interview in the BBS-Ultimania where he spoke of that, however, of course I can't guarantee for translation Errors: -- Ansem the Wise says to Aqua “Everything is born from sleep.” What does this mean? Nomura : In that scene the ones who are calling for “Sora” are the ones who have already disappeared from the world. But in the world of KH there is no concept of death, that for example they are just sleeping within Sora’s heart. If you can just wake them up, they’ll be able to return to the world, they would be “born from sleep”. That there would be a possibility of this, is what Ansem the Wise is saying. Even Aqua, who isn’t in the realm of light, would be born from sleep. -- In that case, do the characters we see in that scene have a chance of returning? Nomura : Yes. The data that Ansem has hidden within Sora is the secret to that revival. When Ansem had become DiZ, and studied the heart and emotions, the results he found he hid within Sora. There are a lot of people who thought that Coded was about finding those results, but that’s not true. The ending of Coded was about finding out that DiZ had done something to Sora, as Namine said, finding out about the data that Ansem hid. What that data is will be revealed in the next game. Two more games aside from KHIII are in the works. --- The second part is of curious interest because DDD is said to be mainly about Ansem's data, which was already more or less stated by Nomura back when the BBS Ultimania came out. I got it from the interview archive at http://forums.khinsider.com/future-kingdom-hearts/159545-nomura-interviews-archive.html

Personally, I choose to interpret "in the world of KH there is no concept of death" to only apply where the Heartless or the Keyblade are concerned/involved. (Unless Nomura means "death" as "cessation of existence" here, else the Underworld, Mufasa's death, and any others I'm forgetting would make no sense.) --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 15:44, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm confused. If there is no death, then what has happened to the slain villains? I know that Lady Tremaine and her daughters would have become Heartless by now, thanks to their hearts being almost-100% darkness, but for everyone else? UxieLover1994 15:48, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

It may be confusing now, but always remember we don't have the full picture yet. There are holes left which I begin to suspect are intentional. A "cessation of existence" may indeed not be possible as Hades apparently could summon any "dead" being he wanted. Uxie, most of the slain villains can apparently brought back if you know th exact way how and have enough power, as seen with Ursula, Maleficent or Oogie Boogie as an example. The things that we are missing is simply the explanations for that. Sephiroth0812

Okay, GREAT. We definitely need to post that quote as a citation on the Universe page.

The way I'm interpreting it, it basically means that there is no complete death. Everything can be brought back, even if it was organically "dead", like the pirates or Auron. It might be in general, or just for these specific characters, but Sora can also revive the disappeared by waking them from his heart. Basically, Nomura is trying to say that in KH there is no concept of total, final death, cessation of existence, as there is in our world -- instead, its basically D&D Death, which is only mildly more irritating than a broken limb."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 19:26, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Pre-release

Are we quite absolutely certain that this article should be up already? Don't we all remember the mess with Eraqus and the others before BbS was released?

I don't think we should be posting any articles on new characters until they are given a commitment to being in the release, like being in the Famitsu issues. That was our standard last time -- getting special coverage in the magazines counted as commitment, appearing in a trailer or demo did not. I'm really, really uncomfortable with us setting up whole pages for cameo characters the second we get a whiff of them, and I had thought we had all learned from that last time."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:31, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

For starters, Neku is a main character. We could've done the same for Quasimodo, but we didn't. We had trouble with the supporting characters and often had to remove the page for Jaq — I, for one, have made sure this did not happen again. But with Neku? First of all, we wonder where that scan and all the other KH3D scans actually came from. ^Tambours_Néant Ensemble ! 15:40, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

1. How do we know he is a main character? Have SE made that announcement themselves?
2. How does that change anything? Why are we setting up half-empty pages for characters that we've only seen one cutscene of? Why are not staying faithful to our verifiability and reliability policies?
3. What happened to us agreeing to keep any necessary updates on the game's own page until release, when can actually do any of this responsibly?
4. What happened to us all remembering that this is not a news site, it's an Encyclopedia?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:44, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

As always, the point is this: by posting this page, we are trying to extrapolate meaning and make guesses based on one instant of a character's story. For all we know, this cutscene could be the least meaningful part of the character's plot, and yet the page is going to remain defined by our initial impressions here, like always ends up doing. Instead of us being patient and making informed decisions in how we write the page, we're grabbing at scraps. Even worse, we are relying on trailers and demos, which almost by definition are preliminary and subject to change.

Then there's just the question of, why is it so damn important to have the article published in the mainspace "NOW"? Why can't it remain as a draft in the userspace until it, I don't know, has any measure of reliability or usefulness?

I just don't get why every time we start getting info about a game, we have to go through this whole song and dance before we get made to look foolish by posting trivial or false things, when we could just be patient and wait until we can do this wisely. It's not like there's any kind of dearth for other stuff to work on in the mean time."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:49, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

I bear in mind that we don't put speculation in — we simply put in what's there. A standard cameo FF character would still have a page longer than this. Like it or not, when we put the page up, it'll be a stub until someone edits it and makes it complete. If there's been any speculation on the page whatsoever, or unsourced information, please edit as you see fit. That screen should have enough translations to get it running, but I'll respect it if you don't wish for the page to be up. ^Tambours_Néant Ensemble ! 15:59, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, there is no explicitly unsourceable bits on the page yet. However, the concept I am referring to is how what we have may not be representative of his character as a whole, but by putting it up in this manner, the page will be built as if it is the defining trait of his character.

I guess, what do the admins think, then?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 16:24, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

I've no idea. True that we can't focus entirely on what we have, though. ^Tambours_Néant Ensemble ! 16:34, 15 September 2011 (UTC)