Forum:Reached my breaking point

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KrytenKoro - Click TALK - I've reached my tolerance limit for the spamming of talkboxes people are making. We have people uploading up to forty or fifty fan-images for their talkboxes, images which they never use. Allowing these images for talkboxes was already a huge concession to our "No fanart" policy, and it is being viciously abused. We have people making six to seven whole templates. The entire thing has gotten unmanageable, and defeats the entire purpose of a talkbox, which is to enhance the identification of your user persona, making it easier for readers to tell who is saying what. I propose that we only allow one talkbox template per user, and that it is allowed up to three fan-made images. Anyone who is in violation of that would then need to fix their main template, put up the extras for deletion, and go through each talk page they are listed on and correct the template-calls.

SilverCrono Well, I can tell who you are. — "Lea, we have to go." "Well, I can tell you are." — 22:26, February 2, 2011 (UTC) Do you mean...different bubbles in a template? Or multiple template pages? But yeah, while I see what you mean, I haven't seen it as a problem. The templates, I mean. The images are getting out of hand.

DoorToNothing — I dreamed last night... I got on the boat to Heaven! And by some chance, I had brought my dice along! — 22:30, February 2, 2011 (UTC) Amen. Hallelujah. Praise the Lor't. Totally, completely agree. I am 100% fed up with not being to identify a user based on their talk template. Also, can we make it a rule that talk templates have to display the user's username? Having the name shown as "Roxas" or "Terra" doesn't help me, AT ALL. And to everyone who is about to say, "NO WAY, THAT LIMITS MY FREEDOM AND EXPRESSION." Well, "expression" doesn't mean spamming the image database with images from oftentimes an entirely different franchise and confusing users with your multiple images. And honestly, if you can't find a way to express yourself with three sets of colors, multiple sets of quotes, images, and fonts... well, I kind of artistically pity you.

Chitalian8 Say... — Only by allowing strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves. Life's little crossroads are often as simple as the pull of a trigger. — 22:28, February 2, 2011 (UTC) Regarding your point on identifying the user, should it be mandatory for the name in your talkbox to be your actual username (See this template)?

AS IF! You can talk all you want, but that won't change a thing. Deal! I'm all for it. Seriously, why do you even need six or seven templates? One per customer has always worked (except for maybe shoes...), so let's do it!

Sorceror Nobody – The Supreme Nonentity User Talk · Sandbox · 358/2 Days Guide · 22:47, February 2, 2011 (UTC) Speaking as someone who does have multiple talk bubble images, I should first point out that if policy was changed so that they had to be externally hosted, I would happily do so. Just protecting myself from possible accusations of hypocrisy. Anyway... I may not be particularly active on KHWiki, but whenever I do come on, it's sometimes hard to follow who's saying what. That's partly due to being unfamiliar with a lot of the users, since I'm not a regular, but it's clear that even regs are finding it to be an issue. When it comes to names, common sense demands EITHER The actual username OR A very widely known nickname OR A variant of the username or nickname that is obvious If you want examples of the last option, two of my Mafia bubbles on the FFWiki are "Shantotto Nobody" and "Sarda Nobody". Furthermore, with regards to the bubble images, they should all be a fixed width. On FFWiki, it's 60px, but I am informed that 70px is better here, given the prevalence of 358/2 Days talk portraits. In my case, that would involve a 10px buffer on my 60px images; a simple enough modification. Quite simply, the bubbles need consistent image widths so that the left-hand edges of the actual bubbles line up, because at the moment, THEY BURN THE EYES WITH THE UNEVENNESS AND THE MISALIGNMENT AND THE HUR-TING! *woo-hoy* </Frink> Category: Suggestions

DoorToNothing — I dreamed last night... I got on the boat to Heaven! And by some chance, I had brought my dice along! — 22:56, February 2, 2011 (UTC) To clarify, the issue is with the number of fan-made images (mostly). The suggestion is that each user is allowed three fan-made images in their talk template. For example, in SilverCrono's talk template, there are three fan-made images: Vanitroll, specialized Saix, and Pyro. This would be the maximum; the Riku images are fine since they are official and wiki-hosted. Also, the rule of One User, One Template has been overlooked. This means that each user gets ONE talk template page. If they want more talk "bubbles," then they need to add the code to their talk template page to add those. The code is available on most active users' templates, it really shouldn't be hard to just replace a few things to make it fit your needs.

Neumannz — ATTENTION, DUELISTS! If you could all stop staring at my hair for a moment... TALK — Those child-grabbing classes were worth every penny! — 03:02, February 3, 2011 (UTC)   We should ABSO-FUGGIN-LUTELY enforce the One User, One Template rule, as well as the inclusion of the username in the talk bubbles. The images are another matter. DTN, do you mean that there should be a max of three fan-made images period, or just hosted on the wiki? I am also perfectly willing to move some or all of my images to private hosting.

17master - Hey, guys, check out my new camera! TALK - Oh wait, this isn't a camera... - {{{time}}} Seeing Crono's said fan-art images are from private hosting, I think he means 3 fan-art only.

Erry - Deep Drive TALK - Moon shine down. ~ 03:31, February 3, 2011 (UTC) I don't see a problem, with enforcing the 1 user, 1 template rule, I have about 6 on my page and it's going much better than having to go through various templates to find the right talk box. However, I think that images should be 3 maximum when hosted on the wiki. If they're private hosting, then it shouldn't matter at all, unless it's starting to get out of hand where they take wiki-hosted images and use them via private hosting, my template uses 4 private-hosted custom image talkboxes, it shouldn't be a problem if I add a few more like 2 or 3.

Eternal Nothingness XIII - You have to be strong. Strength of heart will carry you through the hardest of trials. TALK - What I do, I do for friendship. — 03:58, February 3, 2011 (UTC) I do not mind allowing one talkbox template page per user. That was one of the original rules I always followed. In terms of the fan-made images, taking a Kingdom Hearts render and converting it into a talk bubble sprite technically doesn't break the policy. When you're making duplicates of an image or images that are relatively similar (see all the Terra images on the Wiki used for talk bubbles), then those should be deleted. A Perry the Platypus or Naruto talk bubble sprite, however, does break the policy since it has nothing to do with Kingdom Hearts or Square Enix to begin with. Thus, those types of images should be deleted unless, as we initially agreed, they are hosted on Photobucket or another image source. In terms of image sizes for talk bubbles, 70px has been our default for the Days sprites, but several users such as Xiggie have created their own version of a talk bubble template that gets around that, and we have been fine with that for ages. Deleting Xiggie's template would be a cruelty to the Wiki, since so many users here use Xiggie's version of the template rather than the TalkText template. But for certain images, similar to the problem that arose during our signature forum, 70px makes them almost unidentifiable. I'm not saying put 100px images in your template, but you have to put yourself in other users' shoes at some points. Users should always have their usernames in their talk bubbles. Having a username of "ILUVAxel" but putting "131842" in your talk bubble should not be allowed. It's not trying to limit a user's freedom. It's simply trying to make navigation easier for a majority of the community. Sorcerer Nobody actually listed a few options I see no harm in going with for this matter.

I oppose the image part (I mean look at mine for 2 seconds). Though I agree about that it should be canonical, at least to an extent. I see no problem in using an image of a KH render. For example, mine and ENX's. Both aren't real bubbles, but are official KH renders. A good deal of talk bubbles images used by the people here are official KH renders. Almost everyone in this forum is using a fan-made, KH render image. CaelumLucisCaliga Talk! - My dragon eats tofu like it's water! I don't think highly of myself. I think lowly of others. — 18:26, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

KrytenKoro - "Because I knew something he didn't. I knew that I was lying. Seriously, sir. 'No silicon heaven'? Where would all of the calculators go?" TALK - Okay: If you absolutely must have your fan-touchups, host them off-wiki. Converting a Kingdom Hearts image into a talk bubble sprite fully breaks the policy, just as much as a Platypus talk bubble would. Again, we get way too many of these per person, and because they are marked as User Images, they are maintained poorly. We have tons of these that aren't even used, and are just there because someone wanted to upload it. "A lot of people are breaking clearly stated policies" is not a reason to accept it, especially when it is so incredibly easy to fix the issue. Like I said above, I've reached my breaking point. I'm tired of seeing the upload log be 90% user-image spam. All you have to do is upload the image to photobucket or imageshack, and it will work fine. I don't want it here.

Armored King - Why do you loathe those who are nothing? TALK - --The Dark Master 20:34, February 3, 2011 (UTC) People should be allowed to have more than one talk bubble.If you have trouble identifying the user by there different talk bubbles then simply ask some users to post there talk bubbless on there user pages so people no which one is which.Not eveyone including myself may do that but just ask them,alos juct click on the link on there talk bubble and it will help you identify who they are.It is okay for people to have more than one talk bubless because it helps exprees there creativity when making one.Let there be some fanart on there talk bubbles as long as its not be used on articles it should be okay.A wiki's main duty is to giveout info.

SilverCrono Well, I can tell who you are. — "Lea, we have to go." "Well, I can tell you are." — 20:42, February 3, 2011 (UTC) No, you're not getting it. A wiki's main duty is to give out info, but a talk bubble's main duty is to make identifying user's posts easier. If your name isn't explicitly on your bubble, then the entire purpose is essentially date-raped. Is that what you want to do? Cause date rape? Cuz that's illegal. And why should we have to go to your user page to find out who you are, click the back button, and scroll back to where we were, when you can just have your name on all of your talk bubbles?

The Inexistent - Pitiful users, mindlessly collecting information. The rage of an edit releases this knowledge, and they all come together, to form: The Wiki!!! TALK - And on the Wiki these words appear: "My name is The_Inexistent, user of users: Look upon my edits, ye Mighty, and despair!" Completely agreed; however, what would this image be considered? While, no, it was never ripped from in game, it is simply a cropped image of an official render. I suppose that counts as fan made.

Armored King - Why do you loathe those who are nothing? TALK - The Dark Master 21:23, February 3, 2011 (UTC) Guys you are not getting my point.Editors on the wiki are like writers,they enjoy creative developemnt which is what talk bubbles provide for them.Also I have seen plenty of talk images that were made by users and some of these images were not even in the games for KH.Would that not be condidered fan made?

KrytenKoro - "Hurricane beats all housing or apartments. This sucker is a Cat-6!" TALK - ....TDM. No one is saying that the talkboxes must be eliminated. What we are saying is that, if you have more than one, it needs to be combined with your main template. This is easy enough to do with if tags. Talk images: YES. They would be fan made. So would all the faux-Days images. They are all very, very much so fanart. And they can all, down to the last one, be hosted on photobucket or imageshack. I honestly don't give a shit about the actual layout of the talkboxes, whether they are standardized in size or name. What is making my life difficult is that the various pieces of them are STREWN ACROSS THE WIKI because people aren't keeping their stuff in order. You'll notice that even though me and DTN both have multiple talkbox avatars and versions, we (1) use a single over-template, and (2) have very, very few fan-made images as our avatars (I have one that BK made me as a Christmas Gift, and I'm planning on putting that on photobucket as well). We have to have almost 100 different variations on the Roxas-Days-box by now. That's not orderly, and there's no need for it. It's not like it's easier to upload the images here or anything - at photobucket, you can upload them en masse in seconds, while here, you can only do ten at a time, and it tries to halt you with warnings for every one.

Armored King - Why do you loathe those who are nothing? TALK - The Dark Master 21:45, February 3, 2011 (UTC) Yes I know there are many talk box images but hvaing so many of them is necessary so that people they can be stored and used by new users in the future.There is no harm in having fan art on talk bubbles just as long as people do not use them on articles so we can keep stuff clean.Kryten can youtell are you angry about people having more than one template page or that there are too many talk bubbles?

Sorceror Nobody – The Supreme Nonentity User Talk · Sandbox · 358/2 Days Guide · 21:53, February 3, 2011 (UTC) Perhaps I am naive, but I would have though that, by definition, if an image is for purely user-based purposes, it is a user image. Regardless of whether it is a KH-related image, and regardless of whether it's derived from an official image, if it isn't uploaded for the purpose of being used on the wiki's mainspace, projectspace or galleryspace – are there any other "proper" namespaces? If so, those too – it's a user image. Questionable comparison to date-rape aside, I agree completely with SilverCrono's point above. The raison d'etre of the wiki is to be a wiki. Talk bubbles are a pretty bauble, a decorative piece of code, but underneath that they, like the wiki, have a function, which is to show who is saying what. While there is some scope for creativity, it must not be at the cost of the function, i.e. there is no excuse for it being unclear whose bubble it is. If you want to do something purely for the sake of it being creative, I direct you to DeviantArt, FanFiction.net, or any of a billion other sites that exist for the purpose of creativity. In the meantime, it has no place here if it's going to interfere with the actual purposes of the talk bubble. Incidentally, the same is true of signatures, but let's not wade into that issue right now. EDIT CONFLICT: Okay, TDM, you officially have nothing useful to contribute to this discussion. ...necessary so that people they can be stored and used by new users in the future. What? No, sorry, that's pure BS. They are in no way necessary, and the wiki is not a hosting site. Y'know, because it's a wiki. There is no harm in having fan art on talk bubbles... Indeed, but that doesn't mean they should be hosted on the wiki. ...are you angry about people having more than one template page or that there are too many talk bubbles? Try reading all of the previous posts. You'll notice that the answer to this question is already clearly spelled out. Category: Let's make things clear

Armored King - Why do you loathe those who are nothing? TALK - The Dark Master 21:59, February 3, 2011 (UTC) Let me explain myself again.Having a talk bubble is merely used for creativity,we do not need the talk bubbles to talk with other users it is just something that is used to make things fun for a user and to help them get into the fantasy of KH.