KHWiki:Project Enemy/Archive 1

Request excerpts

Guardian Soul Talk. — Don't I even warrant a hello? It's such a shame. The Organization used to be the rope that bound us together. - 03:40, September 30, 2009 (UTC) You know how we're starting to put the game logos on top of articles to show what game everything appears in? I was thinking that we could do the same thing for worlds on enemy articles. Under worlds we could just put small logos and line them up. Of course, we couldn't do this right away, because we'd need to be able to obtain one logo for every world, but I just wanted to show you an example to see what you think. It would probably look something like this:

KrytenKoro - "Space Corp Directive 195—In an emergency power situation, a hologrammatic crew member must lay down his life in order that the living crew members might survive."  "Yes, but Rimmer Directive 271 states just as clearly: 'No chance, you metal bastard.'" TALK - As long as we don't include the Olympus Coliseum logo for pure coliseum battles (so, only the matches that serve as part of the story would be included), that would be fine. We have to get the background removed on the KH2 logos, then.

Guardian Soul Talk. — Don't I even warrant a hello? It's such a shame. The Organization used to be the rope that bound us together. - 05:59, September 30, 2009 (UTC) I know, we'll get them done. I'm just thinking of where to get a CO image. Using the CoM sprite wouldn't blend.

Guardian Soul Talk. — Don't I even warrant a hello? It's such a shame. The Organization used to be the rope that bound us together. - 18:51, October 19, 2009 (UTC) Some of the enemy templates are really long due to the amount of information that ends up getting added, so how about we give each Heartless a profile tab at the front? I took one of the Wikimon templates and used it as an example. We probably shouldn't do it exactly like this, since it's so similar to Wikimon's, but we could do something very similar.

Guardian Soul Talk. — Don't I even warrant a hello? It's such a shame. The Organization used to be the rope that bound us together. - 18:58, October 19, 2009 (UTC) We could even have the tabs as Profile, Stats (with more tabs leading to each game), Images, Worlds, and Journal.

KrytenKoro - "Hurricane beats all housing or apartments. This sucker is a Cat-6!" TALK - So the shared info at the top of each infobox would be its own tab? I've got to be honest, I have no idea how to code that. I think it could be done by having the infobox automatically tab, but for example, with Leechgrave, it's one Days appearance would create three tabs - a profile tab, a stats tab, and a Days stats tab within the stats tab. But how would you get more games' stats tabs within the Stats tab? Also, would the individual stats tabs have the picture or even the name of the enemy, or just the stat bit? If we did get this figured out (definitely not this week), it would incorporate the current infobox, the locations, and the journal bits, right? Leaving only "Story", "Strategy", and possibly "Etymology"?

Guardian Soul Talk. — Don't I even warrant a hello? It's such a shame. The Organization used to be the rope that bound us together. - 06:28, October 20, 2009 (UTC) I don't think the images would be needed for the stat parts, the stats alone would be fine. So let's see, yeah, we'd have "Story," "Strategy," "Etymology" if you want, and... We could do "Attacks," and "Appearance." Perhaps we should keep the images in a gallery and keep the contents box in a tab instead, like how they do it on Wikimon.

While on the subject of tabs... ILHI isn't here. I wonder if one or both of you know this... if you do, please help me out ! For tabs, do I have to copy all the MediaWiki files, or are there specific ones ? Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • TroisNyxÉtienne — 23:53, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

KrytenKoro - "Because I knew something he didn't. I knew that I was lying. Seriously, sir. 'No silicon heaven'? Where would all of the calculators go?" TALK - First off, a long time back I tried to implement a Journal infobox, but that wasn't accepted. If we are going to revamp the templates like this, it would require a lot of recoding and page editing, and I would need some support. I also need to know if the community actually wants this.

Anyway, the ideas:

1. A "World" template similar to the "Game" one we already use across the wiki. This could also be used to automatically put an article in a world's category. It would probably be beneficial to place the worlds on the left, though, instead of putting them in-line with the game images.
2. Revamping the Enemy infoboxes:
   1. All of them would have a "Profile" infobox which had the name, image, games, and type. I think it might be best to keep it in the same organization as we already have, though, unless people really badly want the romaji in there, or prefer GS's version. We could also use the emblem like GS shows, but we would definitely have to use his version of the profile box in that case, since it wouldn't easily fit in the current organization.
      1. Using the wikimon format, we could also move the "See Also" (which I know people have complained about" into a hideable list of "Subspecies/Variations" (see Agumon for an example).
      2. We currently have the emblems for Heartless, Nobodies, and Unversed. We would need someone to upload that strange heart emblem used for Somebodies.
   2. There would also automatically be a "Journal" tab if the entry had a journal. This would list the journal entries for that creature, removing them from the main page text.
   3. The stats tab would then have game sub-tabs. It would look basically the same as we have now, except that the image and basic profile info would not show up on the stats tab. However, I have absolutely no idea how to code it so that if there is only one game, only one sub-tab would show. Using this format would basically require that there are always sub-tabs. This would look somewhat ugly, but fortunately, its not visible unless you start exploring the stats tab anyway.
   4. Locations - The CoM and KH2 stat infoboxes already list the locations an enemy appears in. The Days infobox lists the Mission only, and the KH infobox lists nothing at all. These could both be formatted similar to the CoM infobox's parameter, though, allowing us to remove the "locations" section from enemy pages as well.
   5. Galleries - This would also be a wonderful time to implement the gallery option we had discussed here and here. We could simply have a link to the gallery under the "variations" entry. This would be easy for me to code. I could even add a link to any TCG cards the enemy has.

If everyone is fine with all of these changes, then much of the pages would be removed. We'd be left with "Design" (appearance and etymology), "Story", "Strategy" (Its attacks and how to defeat them, we might want to rename this to attacks, etc.), and the navboxes.

So then, what do we actually need to do?

• I need to recode the infoboxes, and I could code up a "worlds" template as well. I also need to finish adding the infoboxes for Days enemies. I will also rewrite the format archives with the proper coding, so that people can copy it to the articles. I can also draft up a template for a sub-infobox of attacks (KH2 and Days). If CoM has attack stats in the guide, I could make one for that, but I would need a scan of what they have for it. (TEMPLATES)
• We need someone to add the "Worlds" template to all enemy articles, and some image-literate editors to get the rest of the world images.(WORLDS)
• We need someone to go through and combine the "Locations", "Journal", and "See Also" sections with the new infoboxes. (SYNTHESIS)
• If we decide to have romaji in the new template, someone would have to go through and insert it. Nearly every article has this in its history, generally right before I fused the katakana with the infobox, so this can be done by copying from past revisions. HOWEVER, there are frequent occurences of vandalism with the Japanese, so this role can only be done by someone who can read katakana. (ROMAJI)
• We need someone to go through and fill out the story sections for most enemies, which are sadly lacking. Basically, anytime a specific enemy shows up in a cutscene, or is mentioned in the plot, it should be mentioned. Look at Soldier, for example. If you could take notes, we could use this to build the Heartless and Nobody pages so that they're properly written, and not just "Heartless are totally the monsters in this game, they do bad things, ya'mean?" (STORY)
• We need someone with the guides to go through the Strategy sections, and implement the attack sub-infoboxes I will be drafting. For KH, CoM, and Days, in which the attacks are not described or given names (Days gives stats, but doesn't tell you which is which), someone should check to see whether the Ultimania's cover it. If they do, we could use scans to fill out those stats, and Japanese-literate editors could translated the attack names and descriptions. Finally, this person would need to proofread the posted strategies, somehow checking them for validity (compare them to the guide, personal experience, or online walkthroughs) as well as writing style and spelling. (STRATEGY)
• We need someone to go through and make sure every enemy article has a design section, which should cover the appearance of the enemy, and the etymology of its name. (DESIGN)
• If we are going to implement the Gallery sub-page option, we need someone to comb through the articles and move any secondary images to the subpage. They should also go through our immense image archives and place any useful images therein on the appropriate subpages. (GALLERY)

I need to stress that if we agree to do this, I will require collaboration and commitment. I have neither the time nor the resources to complete this on my own. I will start with TEMPLATES first, then move on to SYNTHESIS and ROMAJI, but anyone who wants to help can do any task here, besides TEMPLATES.

If we agree to do this, I'll move this to a project page. Editors should keep track of their progress in each role by listing the category they're working through, and the limits of the pages they've done (Ex: "Kingdom Hearts enemies: Air Pirate > Gargoyle") That way, we can go as fast as possible.

In a final notice, if we agree to do this, when I implement the changes to the Heartless template, the pages will look like chewed and regurgitated dog-shite until we get the first three roles completed. To preserve the quality of the wiki, we would need to complete those as fast as possible.Glorious CHAOS! 22:49, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: I'd like to add that I don't have the ability to check this coding for the compatibility issues some editors have seen in the past. I may be able to work with those seeing them to help iron it out, but my best advice is to simply be using the newest versions of IE and Firefox, to make sure you have the latest java, Adobe Flash, etc., to make sure you aren't using a custom css unless you need it, and to scan your computer for viruses.Glorious CHAOS! 04:29, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Anyway, please discuss any advice or misgivings you have below. If people still have complaints about my draft of the Journal infobox, please detail how it should be fixed. Etc.Glorious CHAOS! 22:53, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

When do we get started ? TROISNYX AMDG

I'm remaking the coding now. I will have an example up hopefully by tomorrow, and once it is corrected and approved, I will implement it and we can start adjusting the various pages' coding. The STORY, STRATEGY, and DESIGN sections can be done any time, as they are independent of everything else.Glorious CHAOS! 04:29, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Worlds

Point of order: For "Worlds", will there be distinguishing between games? For example, the Creeper Plant appears in Wonderland and the Destiny Islands in CoM and ReCoM, but in Olympus Coliseum in KH2. (And Halloween Town in one of them, the article's not clear which...) --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 00:46, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

If you look at a COM tab, it lists all the worlds that an enemy appears in in that game. All I plan on doing is replicating that cell for KH and Days. KH2 already has the worlds listed, in a way, but I could add the same coding to its template as well for consistency, if you want.Glorious CHAOS! 03:38, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

I'm talking about the World template, the one that will put images at the top of the page. --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 03:52, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

It was GS's idea, so he would be the best one to explain what he wanted, but I would guess that we would list all worlds.Glorious CHAOS! 04:29, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Gallery

What images would be classified as "secondary?" I know images such as screenshots not needed in the article (ex: File:AQUAAQUAAQUA!!!!.jpg) and artwork images would belong on the subpage, but what other images?--Xion4ever 01:02, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Right now, the policy as I understand it is to use the highest quality CGI image from the most recent game as the infobox image. I am looking into coding the Final Mix images into the infobox as well. Secondary images would include images from past games, official artwork, control art, or possibly screenshots if it is warranted.Glorious CHAOS! 03:38, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Design

What LS did at Shadow looks perfect to me. Does anyone else have any comments or critiques?Glorious CHAOS! 03:42, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

It works for me; short and simple but detailed. Just bear in mind some etymologies may will get much more complicated. And I assume if the Japanese version of the name is different, it would be appropriate to comment on that name as well? BebopKate 03:47, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Certainly.Glorious CHAOS! 04:29, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and split this one off into it's own forum thread so we don't clog this one with organizational bits and pieces. BebopKate 02:50, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Sub-enemies/Multi-parts

Will this template take into account enemies with either multiple parts or multiple forms? (Obvious examples being World of Chaos and Shadow Stalker and Dark Thorn) --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 04:01, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Those should be handled as they already are - in separate, hand-coded tabs. Unless someone knows a way to integrate them into the present coding.Glorious CHAOS! 04:29, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Journal

For those of you who are interested, this is what the Journal template will basically look like. Please give any comments and critiques that you can, because it was unanimously rejected last time.Glorious CHAOS! 05:27, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

UPDATE

The new template is DONE!! It incorporates nearly every comment and complaint that I've received over the current enemy articles. It is fully generic, and can be used for any enemy article. It could theoretically be expanded to cover character infoboxes as well. Please comment and critique now, because if I don't get any comments within a few hours, I'm putting this into operation. Thanks for all of your support, guys!Glorious CHAOS! 22:22, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Right now, the only thing I can think of to fix it is that on the profile page, the bottom rows aren't rounded unless the gallery exists. In order to make sure it stays rounded, we'd have to have a bottom row that is always there, and not optional. If you guys really wanted that, we might do a link to the "List of Heartless" like is shown in GS's example, but it would have to change based on what type of enemy is in the infobox. It would also make the navboxes pretty useless (then again...). So...do you guys want that link there? It looks fine now except for that tiny sharp corner, which is not a problem to me. I'm just putting this out there as an option.Glorious CHAOS! 22:39, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Looks wonderful KK, but the words on the journal are still cut off. Anyway to fix that? Everything else is pretty great. Oh, and is there a way to make the variations show without having to click "show"? I say this only because I am one of the few people who actually look at that, and I barely noticed that valuable piece of info. That's all. The Inexistent 23:12, May 17, 2010 (UTC)The_Inexistent

The words aren't cut off on any of my browsers, so I am unable to fix it. If someone knows how to fix it, please tell me, but otherwise all I can say is to get Firefox.

The variations list is really incredibly long for some enemies, and one of the complaints about the current See Also sections was being able to collapse that. So, I can only do it one way or the other, which way do you guys want?Glorious CHAOS! 23:38, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

I'm all for it, whichever one you choose should be fine, though. Should we have a part if they are a boss? Just thought of that. The Inexistent 23:57, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Well, the template has different colors for bosses and categorizes differently, just like we do now. What did you have in mind?Glorious CHAOS! 00:54, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

That sounds great KK, as long as readers can tell! The Inexistent 01:19, May 18, 2010 (UTC)The Inexistent

This is beautiful. I can't even tell you how happy I am that you got this set up, KrytenKoro, thanks! The only thing that I dislike is that the emblem image links to the image; wouldn't it be more appropriate to have it link to Heartless, rather than the dead-end image? --^DTN 01:57, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Bazam. Done.Glorious CHAOS! 02:13, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

World Template: DISLIKE

I dislike this idea of a world template to be used alongside the Game template. This information will already be available in the new infobox. Plus, the biggest problem that cannot be fixed without making the images teeny-tiny, which is bad, is that the world icons will run into the hearts. For example, many Heartless appear in many worlds, such as the Shadow, Soldier, some Black Mage-like Heartless, and others. There is not a need for this template; I like everything else in this plan except for this. --^DTN 01:10, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I can see that. I just looked back over GS's suggestion, and it seems like he was probably suggesting that the image go in front of the world name in the Worlds section. Since we're not doing that anymore, I guess it would have been obsolete anyway.Glorious CHAOS! 01:51, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Signup

For any of you who decide to help - thank you in advance.

TEMPLATES

• Glorious CHAOS!
• Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 00:33, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

SYNTHESIS

• Glorious CHAOS!
• --Xion4ever 00:04, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
• LevL 06:29, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

ROMAJI

• Glorious CHAOS!
• maggosh 23:28, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
• Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 00:33, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

WORLDS

• Glorious CHAOS!

STORY

• The Inexistent 23:26, May 16, 2010 (UTC)The_Inexistent
• TROISNYX AMDG 23:43, May 16, 2010 (UTC) (I'm willing !)
• BebopKate 03:20, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

STRATEGY

• Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 00:33, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
• ^DTN 03:50, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
• FinalMix+ 07:32, May 17, 2010 (UTC) (I might not be online often, though, but I would like to still partake)

DESIGN

• The Inexistent 23:26, May 16, 2010 (UTC)The_Inexistent
• Lapis ofthe Night 23:27, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
• BebopKate 03:20, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
• ^DTN 03:50, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

GALLERY

• --Xion4ever 00:04, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
• ^DTN 03:50, May 17, 2010 (UTC)