Talk:Symbols in the Kingdom Hearts series

Should

Should it be "of" or "in"?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 21:12, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Also, would it perhaps be more legible if the "additional character" and "additional world" symbols were handled in a table?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 21:15, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I can't answer the first question, I just used the title suggestion you made some hours ago^^. A table has its pros but it would ruin or at least supersede the text. How would you arrange the table? --ShardofTruth 21:25, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I personally find "in" has better sound appeal, but both technically work. I would say yes to the table, but if it supersedes the text as Shard stated, then by all means, leave the page as-is. - Eternal Nothingness XIII

KrytenKoro - "I'm the doctor, I'm the patient. Don't forget that - it's important! If you love me like I love me, everybody will be sorry." TALK - Basically, the "additional world" and "additional character" sections just list a lot of images and then have unconnected sentences after them detailing each of the images. There's no cohesion between the images or the text, and they're only real relation is that they are each symbols with no real variants or notability. I'm proposing a short table that separates each image and line of text into a row of the table, for those symbols only.

I would suggest making it a transparent table, no lines and no background. --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 15:13, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

The table looks good, now to do it for the characters."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 10:53, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Mark of Mastery

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Where is it said that those symbols represent the Mark of Mastery, especially since Terra and Ventus where it despite not being masters, and Aqua wore hers long before her promotion, not to mention Xehanort not wearing one, despite being a master

ShardofTruth Once you believe, truth and lie are quite the same thing. — 22:38, 5 October 2011 (UTC) With the latest Normua interview regarding the story of KH3D I assumed that there is always a qualification test before the Mark of Mastery exam which is rewarded with the mark. But that may not be true. It was "Keyblade Master Symbol" before, which is also incorrect in Terra's and Ventus's case. The Ultimania calls it Terra's mark which can't be the real name either.

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I always saw it as Eraqus' symbol seeing as only he and his apprentices are ever seen with it, as well as it being the keychain token on his keyblade, not to mention the fact that Ventus didn't start wearing it until he started being taught by Eraqus

ShardofTruth Once you believe, truth and lie are quite the same thing. — 20:30, 8 October 2011 (UTC) True but I think there is still more too it. Why did Xemnas copy the symbol to get the Nobody emblem and why is the Room of Sleep decorated with it? Anyway, I still think you're right. Maybe we should change the name to "Terra's mark" (because we have a quote for it), "Eraqus' symbol" is plausible but still another speculation.

Heartless emblem

Okay, chronologically the emblem first appears on the x-blade, and kind of on Vanitas's chest; unless it appears on Hollow Bastion in BbS (can someone check, please). We know that the Organization emblem is from Terra's memories of the Mark of Mastery emblem, so without speculation we can at the very least say that the Heartless emblem is derived from the x-blade Keychain.

Also, I think Roxas's Nobody-thorn cross should be part of the Nobody emblem section, since those thorns are used throughout the various Nobodies and Organization weapons."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 14:03, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

I really don't think a black heart with a red outline makes it a heartless emblem. It's got the color-scheme, sure, but that's about it, same goes for vanitas--ShadowsTwilight 14:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

The x-blade Keychain is the "Heartless emblem" without the surrounding thorns and the bottom fleur-de-lis. It's pretty clearly a linked symbol, and chronologically, it appears long before the Heartless emblem."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 17:03, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Maybe you're right Kryten the heart in the keychain is an "incomplete" Heartless emblem but it is highly doubtful that the heartless emblem is based on it considering that neither Master Xehanort nor Terra even got the chance to see it as it was destroyed a short while after its creation Xabryn

Unknown symbol

Unknown3619 15:41, 5 January 2012 (UTC) Would anyone be so kind as to put the symbol that the Unknown in BBS uses in here some where. i cant do that kind of thing myself but i would love to study the symbol for more clues to his/her identity. Thanks

What symbol is that? --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 16:16, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Unknown3619 16:18, 5 January 2012 (UTC) sorry. Its the one that appers below him/her when he/her uses magic. Its black and looks like a trinity limit symbol.

Here you go:

I ripped it from the battle effects and even tried to put his ethereal blade together, but that's a lot of work, because the parts are disconnected in the game files. Please link back here if you publish it somewhere else, thanks. --ShardofTruth 00:13, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Unknown3619 15:10, 6 January 2012 (UTC) This is amazing. thanks so much. I cant even say how cool this is. Thanks.

Are we gonna add this to the page?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 07:11, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

The Grid

UxieLover1994 Tiempo de morder de nuevo con el poder! El tema de hoy: su sorpresa! — 12:07, 29 July 2012 (UTC) While an Identity Disk does serve as the symbol for The Grid, the shape is slightly different than the one for Space Paranoids. The shape is similar to the disks in the second film.

Move

Eternal Nothingness XIII - You have to be strong. Strength of heart will carry you through the hardest of trials. TALK - What I do, I do for friendship. — 15:11, 13 October 2012 (UTC) I'm mostly suggesting this due to better sound appeal, but is anyone against moving this article to "Symbols in the Kingdom Hearts series"?

No, go for it. TheFifteenthMember 15:21, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Either way works for me... they essentially mean the same thing. Erry 15:32, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Not especially. I think I'll wait for a few more opinions. - Eternal Nothingness XIII 15:34, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm fine with it. --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 00:46, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

That's also okay with me. --ShardofTruth 11:32, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Me and my Grammer professer say that in is better Unknown3619 (talk) 20:01, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Can I say it? "Grammer?""We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 03:05, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

SAY IT --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 03:40, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

*Grammar. Moment stolen, Kryten :P And "in" is slightly more appropriate. Both work, but "in" is a bit better.LapisLazuliScarab14:53, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Woops.. I didnt notice that... Kind of defeats what I was saying huh? Anyway, as long as no one absolutely hates that idea (I cant see anyone hateing it really) then its ok. Unknown3619 (talk) 15:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Needed?

Do we really need that "Eye of darkness" thing? It seems a bit much for what it's been used for. But that's just my opinion. 97.81.35.41 13:10, 7 May 2013 (UTC) Rex Ronald Rilander

It's a recurring motif (more than some of the other symbols here) with consistent meaning, and its simpler than listing out each of the ten or so blades it appears on each time we mention it.107.35.212.105 18:33, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Point taken. But I feel that it's a bit of a nuisance, mostly because it's a bit speculative(though normaly that's something I'm all for). But the question still stands: Is it needed? 97.81.35.41 21:24, 7 May 2013 (UTC) Rex Ronald Rilander

Yes. TheFifteenthMember 21:35, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

OK. I'm still against the idea, but I'm not gonna put up a fight, unless someone insults me for whatever reason(which I really hate). 97.81.35.41 21:44, 7 May 2013 (UTC) Rex Ronald Rilander

The KH2 Ultimania uses a major and a minor symbol for each main character, these symbols are not shown here for various reasons. Anyway, besides the blank Heartless symbol a similiar eye is used for Riku, so maybe that makes it a bit less speculative.
Although I agree this page scraps speculative territory on more than one occasion, mainly because we mostly use fan given names. That's why it should be considered as a collection with real-world references not as something written from an ingame view. --ShardofTruth

OK, I'm not against it anymore. I do wish it had a better name though, the current one is a bit iffy. Not that I'm complaining or anything, just saying. 97.81.35.41 22:38, 7 May 2013 (UTC) Rex Ronald Rilander

It's an eye, and it is associated with darkness. We specifically do not claim that it has an official name. I don't see how anything in that section could be considered speculative."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 01:35, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I meant that the name is a bit simple and isn't going to catch on(at least for me). Hence why I said that I wish it had a better name. Now no more talk about this, I have more important things that require my attention 97.81.35.41 14:10, 8 May 2013 (UTC) Rex Ronald Rilander

Nobody variant and Roxas's symbol

Should we merge those two sections?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 21:30, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I think so.--NinjaSheik 22:44, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

If so, I think Roxas's zipper pull should take priority. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 05:22, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

This is kind of strange. I don't think the Gummi enemies have anything to do with Roxas, on the other hand Roxas's zipper pull is inspired by the Nobody symbol, so maybe we have overlapping designs here. Would it really make any sense if these two were the same? --ShardofTruth 21:00, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Hidden Mickeys

Gamer Escape: Is there anything you're excited for or something you’d like to share with our readers?

Okayama: There are actually hidden Mickeys in the stages that you can look for.

Gamer Escape: Like the shape?

Okayama: Yes, it might be very difficult to find them but they are in there. They’re not in every stage though.

Read more: http://kh13.com/#ixzz477oNqYED

You can find seven of them in Waterfront Park --ShardofTruth 14:04, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

It just hit me!

About the Eye of darkness, the reason it's on Master Xehanort's Keyblade and the Keychains of the Foreteller Keyblades is because it's the Master of Masters' eye. The one that can see into the future. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 00:49, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Possibly, but has that been stated for certain yet?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 16:33, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

No, it's only a thoery. The fact I said that it "hit me" kind of implies that. I don't expect or even want my thoery on the page yet until it's confirmed though. I just wanted to put it out there before anyone else figured it out first. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 17:26, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

I..am a genius. Not that that's anything new. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 03:29, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, good prediction!"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 17:37, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Now, how about a prediction for a KH3 release date, eh? Xion4ever 03:24, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Late 2017. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 04:44, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Why are we still calling the Master's eye the "Gazing Eye"?

I mean...he made it pretty clear that his eye (or keyblade for that matter) doesn't actually have a name. The term was something just made up on the spot by Luxu and immediately dismissed by the Master. So....wouldn't it better to just call it the Master's Eye or something? --Ignis (talk) 00:36, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

I didn't interpret that line as talking about the eye, especially since the way Luxu phrased it pretty strongly implied that the MoM had just said the words "Gazing Eye". Regardless, whether it is the ritualistically "true" heart-name for the concept in-universe, it is still a name the canon uses for the concept, and thus weighted in privilege to anything we come up with ourselves. "Master's Eye" itself would imply that that name is canon, which would be erring in the wrong direction. "Master's eye", maybe, but then we're talking about the eye itself and not the symbol I would think. But I can go with "'Master's eye' icon", sure. It's an accurate if non-canon descriptor, like "entelechy".

I would love for Nomura to come up with official terms for those concepts, though -- the unnamed Keyblades, the symbols, if there's a name for a complete being, etc."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 01:09, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

They call it Gazing Eye in Back Cover. There's even a scene called "The Gazing Eye" where they talk about the MoM's ability to look in the future with the eye (it's not the Keyblade scene). TheSilentHero 08:23, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

But that's a chapter name though. Not the official name for the thing. I mean...the Master outright says "That's not what it's called..." If that isn't a fucking confirmation, then I don't know what is. This really needs to be changed. --Ignis (talk) 15:27, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

That is indeed a "fucking confirmation" that the Keyblade, because they're talking about the Keyblade in that scene, isn't called Gazing Eye. However, in another scene, called "The Gazing Eye", they mention that the Master has "an eye that gazes into the future". While not totally confirming that is called the Gazing Eye, it is quite obvious, considering the scene's title. Maybe you should actually watch Back Cover before coming here saying something isn't right. TheSilentHero 17:21, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Then you don't know what a confirmation is. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 04:26, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Maybe we should agree on a zero profanity rule. Byzantinefire - There are no strings on me (talk) 17:44, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Shut up.'—Preceding unsigned comment added by Ignis (talk • contribs)

You already have my vote. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 04:26, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

To clarify: the Master explicitly states "Gazing Eye" is not the name of the No Name. However, the scene clearly portrays the Master as having immediately beforehand saying the words "Gazing Eye" -- Luxu did not make them up himself. Given the context, the term "Gazing Eye" which the script presents as having been a term used by the Master almost certainly applies to his actual eye. If nothing else, it's a usable identifier for the item, just like "Terra's Mark" or "Young Xehanort's Keyblade"."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 18:39, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

I dunno...that's a speculative stretch though based on the assumption of information we were never given. Luxu called it then, but then jumped up in shock and shouted "EW!" when he found it was his dismembered eye! If he knew what it was to begin with, he wouldn't have had that reaction. And besides lol, weren't you in agreement over this a while back? If you and the others agree that you want to keep it as is, that's your prerogative. I just strongly disagree and feel it's correct that it be changed. --Ignis (talk) 21:43, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Luxu could have thought that it was a jewel made to look like an eye, which is what we all thought before Back Cover. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 04:26, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

To clarify again: Luxu plainly didn't know the MoM was talking about the eye -- he thought the MoM was talking about the Keyblade.

Here's what we're shown:

• MoM talks about "Gazing Eye"
• Luxu thinks he means the Keyblade
• MoM clarifies that the Keyblade has no name
• Luxu names the Keyblade
• MoM further clarifies the Keyblade contains his own eye

This order of events indicates that the MoM was indeed waxing poetic about his own eye, and Luxu just got confused, then was corrected."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 14:55, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Merging

Would there be any complaints about merging Roxas's zipper pull into the Nobody section, or perhaps creating a subheading for it? The Nobody variant symbol and the zipper pull are essentially the same, and as Roxas is a Nobody, there is certainly connection there. I saw that there was discussion about it before but it doesn't seem like anything came of it.

Also, should the fleur-de-lis in the world symbols section be moved up to the larger fleur-de-lis section? Sirlionel13 (talk) 18:37, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Regarding Terra's Mark as of KH3, and Xion's symbol

Per the notice on the page, I looked into the gummi stickers in KH3, and it seems that the symbol this page calls "Terra's Mark" is instead titled "Eraqus" in KH3. But, this page also says that the name "Terra's Mark" is used in official materials. This means we now have conflicting information from official sources - what do we call this symbol now? Calling it something like "Eraqus' Mark" seems more appropriate to how the symbol is used, in my opinion.

On another note regarding KH3, Xion appears to have a symbol now - a 3-pronged mask/crown, which can be seen on the top of her light pillars during her KH3 data battle. This symbol is also visible on the face of her final form in Days. Does anyone have a clean image of this symbol? And, what should we call it? --Boblers (talk) 09:06, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

The original source of it being called テラたちのマーク (Terra and Friends' Mark) is the BBS Ultimania. They compare it to the Nobody symbol to show the similarities, so it could be seen as more of a description than a name, like "the mark Terra and his friends use". Also, since KH3 calls it "Eraqus", and is more recent, we should call it that, but we should probably mention "Terra's Mark" as well (though I'm not sure it's actually called that in English?). TheSilentHero 13:38, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the only Ultimania that's in English is the Memorial Ultimania, so BBS Ultimania is still only in Japanese. I don't know what's in Memorial, but unless the mark is mentioned in there, "Terra's Mark" would not have an English name I think? --Boblers (talk) 22:36, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

This is irrelevant for now but since it goes back to the beginnings of keyblade society, neither is probably its "proper name"; they may give it a real one in Missing Link or something. ChielArael (talk) 08:05, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Nobody emblem contradiction

So, it's been established that the Nobody emblem is based on Terra's Mark / Eraqus as remembered by Xemnas, since Terra had strong memories of the symbol. But it appears on Xehanort's Keyblade Armor that he wore over 60 years prior. I think this is a minor oversight, rather than intentional lore: the most likely explanation is that they included the emblem on Xemnas's armored form because he's a Nobody, but when it came time to make Xehanort's armor for Dark Road, they used the same design as that armor (and No Heart) without considering the implications of the symbol. Still, an interesting little contradiction. —Aid1043 (talk) 04:04, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

I don't think it's Dark Road's oversight, considering that No Heart (as well as Eraqus' armor) were included in the Final Mix of the very same game that Nomura made this claim in the Ultimania of. Considering that they don't use armor in the present day and that both armor designs were used in Dark Road, I suspect they were always supposed to represent Xehanort and Eraqus when they were younger. It's a case of Nomura proving his own statements wrong almost immediately. It wouldn't be the first time; Nomura also said nobodies don't age, despite Namine clearly aging from CoM to II (others were shown to age later). Personally I think we can infer it must predate Xemnas, but who knows if they'll ever talk about it or not. ChielArael (talk) 08:03, 3 November 2022 (UTC)