Talk:Julius

Why isn't he considered the first Disney Secret boss

Okay a lot have people have been asking whether or not he's the first secret boss to be a Disney character while others simply dismissed him he's not the first secret boss to be Disney character since the Ice Titan is. Though IMO, I do believe he's considered to be a secret boss, because like Xemnas, the Lingering Will, and the Unknown(Young Xehanort) these bosses often tease a future character in a future KH game so, to be fair he's the first secret boss to be a Disney character, what do you think? DisneyGirkeybladewielder95 00:13, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Why does everyone forget about Polaros or however it is called.. Sum2k3 04:29, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

What Sum2k3 said, Hydros, or rather the Ice Titan, was the first secret Disney boss. Erry 06:09, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

But he was considered as an Optional boss in the tournaments and he didn't tease a future KH/Disney character in a game, Sephiroth is the same thing he's an optional boss in KH and KHII but he wasn't a considered a Secret Boss like Xemnas, lingering will, and Unknown(Young Xehanort). DisneyGirkeybladewielder95 18:33, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Julius is an optional boss too. maggosh 18:46, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

True, But like Xemnas, the Lingering Will, and the Unknown(Young Xehanort, they appear in a specific area from the world you go to, and they have a lot more powerful attacks than the other optional bosses in the games, and you have to rely on your attack strategies to defeat them. DisneyGirkeybladewielder95 18:58, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Just like Sephiroth, Ice Titan...where are you going with this? maggosh 19:23, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm making a point that he's the first secret boss to be a Disney character, you and the rest of you on this wiki could say whatever you want regarding that he doesn't count as one and the Ice Titan does, but to me and a few non-wiki editors that are off this site say, he does and this comment is done. DisneyGirkeybladewielder95 19:50, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Your definition of "secret boss" is nonsensical for many reasons, and doesn't even differentiate between Ice Titan and Julius anyway. Regardless, this wiki does not recognize any worth in denoting "secret bosses" (and includes Ursula in "optional bosses", for example), so your definition is irrelevant. End of story.

Other notes: Stop bringing up "other KH fans/non-wiki editors". The wiki does not care what people you won't even name think; it doesn't even care what we think. It operates solely on the published material, and the facts thereof.

Peurile, meaningless stuff like this is why the wiki discourages trivia. "First to X", etc., does nothing to inform the reader about the story or give context to the setting; it is only added because an editor wanted to create some banal definition (which is even false half the time) so taht they could add something to the page and pretend they contributed. We have a huge list of things that actually need to be done to help improve the quality of our articles, stuff like expanding the story synopsis for a character, or checking where items appear, or providing summaries of the manga and novels...why in the everloving are you wasting our time with this?192.249.47.177 20:09, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

"but to me and a few non-wiki editors that are off this site say, he does and this comment is done." Well, for one, this is flawed logic, secondly, they're non-wiki and clearly seem to have not played KHI. Erry 00:49, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Can't we just move on from the subject End of Story. DisneyGirkeybladewielder95 19:56, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Okay, so we all agree that Julius isn't the first Disney OPTIONAL boss? Erry 21:01, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

....yeaaaaaaah, seeing as Ursula and Oogie exist. Also, fix your signature.192.249.47.177 21:20, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Bonus

Hey, I have beaten Julius today, more or less accidently. After I saved I was curios about him and fought him again without success. I'm not quite sure, but I think he got more HP, like all the other bosses in the secret portals. Can someone confirm me, if I have to beat him a second time with both characters or is it fine beating him only once? (I hope the grammar nazis won't find me).. Sum2k3 (talk) 19:11, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

You need to defeat him with both Sora and Riku to get the Ultima Weapon for both. maggosh 19:31, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. But the question is, if there is a stronger version of him which gives you a bonus. Like I said, I think he got more HP in the second fight, like the secret portal bosses. Sum2k3 (talk) 19:34, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Ok, fought him now with riku (who didn't beat him until now) ..the hp didn't rise, so everything is ok. Sum2k3 (talk) 17:54, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Lightning Note

While trying to beat him as Sora, I noticed that the lightning that he summons half way through the battle is blockable. I haven't seen anyone else comment on this yet, mostly just saying to dodge or cure as much as possible. So...just saying.

Dude, where's my enemy?

Okay, so I'm on my second run of KH3D, hoping to get Ultima before Seinen Xehanort kicks my rear again... but Julius won't show. Do you need to reach a certain point in the game before you're allowed to fight him? Draconai (talk) 02:19, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

You need to clear the game before you can fight Julius. maggosh 02:31, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, mentioning that in the article would be really handy. Draconai (talk) 02:36, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Strategy

We need to rewrite the attacks list to focus on how you can dodge each technique, but as far as the "planning" and "general strategy" -- you can cheese him for virtually free by having a deck that alternates Cures and Ballonra/ga commands. You don't even have to move or dodge, just keep hitting X to win the battle even on Critical Mode. As such, I don't think there's any point in telling readers how to set up a more complex, difficult to use deck."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 04:56, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

If it's easy to set up and it works most of the time, I don't see why not. Chitalian8 02:01, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

I see no reason not to add the Cure+Balloon strategy, but I think we should also have a strategy that is a little more challenging, for players that do not want to use the cheap way to win. TheSilentHero 10:19, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree with TSH. TheFifteenthMember 13:26, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Why? If we cover how to dodge all the techniques, why should we promote a strategy that is objectively less efficient? If this was a matter of requiring the player to grind for elixirs or something, I'd understand, but this is actually a much less grindy strategy -- the current one is actually strictly worse, since it requires the player to consume rare Elixirs, and even asks the player to have three Balloons anyway. It's just using them very inefficiently. We've discussed guidelines for strategies in the past, and we always agreed we should promote the strategies that are most efficient, not use riskier strategies unless they had some objective benefit by some metric. What makes the current strategy more useful for a player? "We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 04:26, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

The current strategy is an inferior version of the Cure/Balloon combo so in this case it's useless but if there is a different strategy that gets the player to victory, I don't see why we can't have them both. Speaking in general terms, every strategy has a drawback whether it's time-consuming, dependant on rare items/commands, more difficult, or overpowered to the point where the player gains no satisfaction. As long as it doesn't begin to feel excessive, having multiple strategies with their cons provides a selection to choose from, catering to more types of players. Some people have no problem with using cheap methods to win but I'm sure there's others who'd appreciate a degree of challenge (like me for example). TTheFifteenthMember 11:01, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I can agree on providing alternate strategies to avoid having to grind, expend rare items/commands, or dealing with risk, and even for well-known challenges like "LV1" and "No changing equipment" (esp. since those are explicitly required in some of the games) but I can't get on board with "avoiding being too overpowered". Nearly all of our strategies for end-game bosses advise the player to use the best possible Keyblade, be a high level, etc. Where's the cutoff there? If someone would like to provide an alternate strategy for Julius that is equally reliable and requires no excessive grinding, that's great, but if we're comparing the ones we have now, one that all but guarantees you a win in five minutes, the other that maaaaaybe will net you a win if you practice, practice, practice for five straight hours...one of those really has no place in the article, neh?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 14:40, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

There is a difference between "having the best stats" and "being overpowered". You said "you can cheese him for virtually free by having a deck that alternates Cures and Ballonra/ga commands. You don't even have to move or dodge, just keep hitting X to win the battle even on Critical Mode." When you can beat a boss with just spamming a single attack, and you don't even have to move, the strategy is overpowered. TheSilentHero 17:57, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

(1) So, we can't mention Strike Raid against KH Sephiroth, then? Or Tornado against Vanitas Remnant? (2) How is "overpowered" in any way a useful or objective term? We're not GameFAQs or NeoGAF, challenging our readers to showcase the most technique in how they defeat the opponent, by doing a LV1, no damage, Kingdom Key-only run where you're only allowed to use Guard and Keyblade strikes against the boss. We're an encyclopedia that is meant to provide information to the reader. Honestly, we should be focusing more on the "what are the attacks and how to counter/avoid them", and less on telling readers "this is what you have to do to beat this" when the strategies we're telling them are completely inefficient and laughable. I strongly feel that strategies should be much reduced to something like "here's the basic equipment and abilities you can get in a reasonable amount of effort that will allow you to beat the boss." If the question is "what's the best way to defeat this boss", well... (3) That being said, "no/minimum damage" is another perfectly objective, acceptable requirement for a "good strategy" that would minimize the usefulness of the Balloon strategy. It doesn't require us giving any heed to the completely arbitrary "overpowered" descriptor, and the strategy we have now still doesn't meet that requirement."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 18:26, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I never said those types of strategies shouldn't be mentioned, I said other strategies shouldn't be mentioned just because other "overpowered" methods exist. The word "overpowered" is arbitrary but I think the difference between a normal battle and spamming a single command is quite clear. I agree that strategy sections should be primarily focussed on attacks but my point is that if there's a strong, valid, doable strategy that lets the player beat the boss, it shouldn't be ignored because there's an even easier method. For example, on Vanitas Remnant's page, Ventus' Tornado strategy is detailed but the use of Mine Square is still mentioned. In Julius' case, there's probably no alternative strategy but I'm generalising here. TheFifteenthMember 20:20, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

If someone can provide a strategy that relies more on finesse in the combat system, deflecting attacks instead of merely throwing Elixirs at them, I'm totally for adding that strategy in -- that is absolutely a weakness of my strategy, which throws free Cures at them instead. I'm not against an alternate strategy in general, I'm against the one we have now, which is weaksauce."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 01:15, 27 October 2015 (UTC)