Talk:Vanitas: Difference between revisions

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* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 1|Archive 1]] - November 05, 2009
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 1|Archive 1]] - November 05, 2009
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 2|Archive 2]] - January 20, 2010
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 3|Archive 3]] - February 11, 2018
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== Trailer Info ==
==Nomura Interview==
I finished adding proper citations to Vanitas's page, but I'm having trouble tracking one of the interviews down. In Vanitas's Trivia section, there is a line that states: "Nomura also stated in another interview that Vanitas's identity was familiar and perhaps also shocking."


Some of the Birth by Sleep Trailers Have been leaked. in one Master Xehanort Says "Those who Submit to darkness are not qualified to Wield the keyblade. already that man" Cuts to apprentice as he says this "has become a monster consumed by Darkness. use your power to defeat the darkness and correct my mistake." these trailers are on youtube. you might have to dig around a bit but it's there. should be mentioned in a article edit for link:
However, I spent days combing through the KHInsider's archives for the interviews and I've tried Google-ing, but I can't seen to find the interview where Nomura-sensei said that Vanita's face is supposed to "shock" fans, which is stated as part of the interview. [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Vanitas?diff=248958&oldid=248857 I tried going back to the Keyhole where that trivia was first inserted into the page, but I got nothing]. When I tried typing keywords in the search engine, I couldn't find anything. Does anyone remember which interview Nomura-sensei said that? Was it in a video interview or at a con where one of the trailers were shown? I took the sentence out of the trivia section, because unless it's sourced, it doesn't really belong there. Besides, I don't think it fitted well since it had more to do Vanitas's voice.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 23:10, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuoA5DL_oM0&feature=related


i wonder why xehanort actually says that when in the final mix secret ending he seems to be fighting together with his apprentice and not against him --[[User:Darksoldier|Darksoldier]] 12:47, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
== Monstropolis pre-3D ==


maybe he changed his mind or that scene happens before this one
"he says his heart needed to be reconstructed using negative emotions, meaning he was collected at some point after his battle with Ventus (as that was when his heart was shattered). His journal entry also refers to him as being from after BBS"


{{Template:ST|time=00:35, November 9, 2009 (UTC)|text=My running theory is that MX said that so that he could bait Ven into fighting/killing Vanitas so that he would do something evil, be regarded as a dark being, be rejected by his friends, yaddah yaddah}}
*No, it doesn't. It means that he, currently, is after KHBBS. Nothing more.
*His journal entry absolutely does not say that. It says:


== Speculation ==
:A member of the real Organization XIII.
{{yer mom|text=There is a lot of speculation in the Trivia, should we add a special part for theories or leave it where it is? (Some of those theories sound like nonsense tho...}}
:This is the pure darkness that Master Xehanort extracted from Ventus's heart. He was pitted against Ventus in order to forge the X-blade, but Ventus prevailed and Vanitas ceased to exist.
:Now that he is back, he continues to seek his "brother," Ventus.


like what?--KHF 19:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
This is exactly parallel to all of the other Org profiles talking about how Sora or Riku killed them. Xemnas's profile talks about they "put an end to his plans and Xemnas himself." Ansem's talks about him being destroyed. They both also say how, despite their destruction, they've returned.


i agree with that. there should be a theorys secttion , and some of it does sound like nonsense so you should add a section nammed that too! :D.
There is nothing in the journal that indicates that Vanitas came back into existence on his own, instead of being snatched before his death in BBS, just like the other org members were.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
but im not in charga that so.....


{{NeutraVega|Oh god, PLEASE no theories section...}}
His heart was shattered at the end of BBS, why would it need to be reconstructed in Monstropolis if he was snatched from before it being shattered? The journal saying "now that he is '''back''', he '''continues''' to seek his "brother," Ventus" is different from the others ("despite this Ansem/Xemnas has returned") as his refers to him as being back from his defeat and continuing with his prior task. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 21:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
{{Maggosh|text=...And you are?}}
:Because it was already damaged by the climax of KHBBS. In addition, with the events following. Vanitas was originally unstable until Sora's heart connected with Ventus's -- if that link has been tampered with (CoM, etc.), even if the heart is taken to the future, you'd expect there to be instability again.
:{{NeutraVega|Tetsuya Nomura.}}
:referring to him being back from his defeat is the same language used for Ansem and Xemnas.
:It refers to him continuing his task, because its his own task apart from the organization's plans. He's one of the few Organization members doing his own thing.
:The Ultimania specifically says this is Vanitas "from the past", and the events with Randall are implied to have ''just happened'', based on the fact that Sully, who works at Monsters Inc. ''every day'', was not aware anything was amiss at first.
:There is no mechanism provided anywhere in the series for him to have just "come back", and if he had, what would be the point of snatching him from the past? He'd already be there. Snatching from the past was ''only'' supposed to be a mechanism for retrieving those who were irretrievably destroyed.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 22:11, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::Also, I have no idea where all this is from:
:::"Vanitas's fractured heart met the monster Randall, who told him about Monstropolis and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy. Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter, Vanitas manipulates Randall using his desire for revenge"
::If it was explicitly mentioned in the scenes, fine, but I don't recall anything indicating that Vanitas found Randall in Louisiana and had this conversation with him.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 22:16, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Wasn't his heart only fragmented after his final fight with Ventus in BBS? It wouldn't need to be reconstructed otherwise. Vanitas implies to Mike that the Unversed and Randall have been working behind the scenes, making canisters of scream energy under their noses. He also did say that he found Randall. He could have been picked up from the past because they could not obtain him in the present, like Xion. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 22:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Xion was taken from the past so that they'd have an obedient version -- and even with being taken from her puppet days, she still had links of friendship to Sora and Lea.
:::His heart was damaged from the very moment of his creation. That's why the Unversed existed to begin with.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:04, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
They also collected every member of the org via time travel in DDD even though most existed in the present. Anyhow, maybe it would be best to just put the info back in the KHIII section and not mention what point in the past he was collected from. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 23:09, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:No, they didn't. The KH3D and KH3 Ultimania explicitly say they didn't. The ones that existed in the present just showed up on their own.
:The KH3 Ultimania explicitly says that the replica contains the heart of "Vanitas from the past". That only makes sense as being a reference to BBS.
:Also, I need to rephrase what I said about Xion -- they picked a certain point in time to pluck her from because that was when she was most pliant, but the reason they needed to use time travel in the first place is that she had already reunited with Sora.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:18, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Well it does not say exactly where in the past he comes from, so we don't need to explicitly say (like how we're not mentioning it with Repliku). Even going by him not existing post-BBS, he could be from pre-BBS. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 23:23, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:We know when Repliku is taken from. It's from before Namine undid the brainwashing on him. If it's not in the article, it should be.::{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:12, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
::Is it not that Dark Riku is from the time when Ansem possessed Riku, rather than being Riku Replica's Heart? From what I understood that was how it worked and the Replica comment was just concerning the vessel within which Dark Riku's Hearts was within. I also agree with what has been said regarding Vanitas' own Heart. Ultimania states that he's from the past, and i think that the work the Unversed did to collect negative emotions was just to fill out Vanitas' Heart and allow him to be a complete being on his own - since he'd still otherwise lack half a Heart, just like Ventus. But at the same time - he still sought to join his Heart with Ventus's, which would suggest that he is simply restored from post KHBBS. I think it's more of a slip up somewhere on Nomura's part to be honest ([[User:Levi657|Levi657]] ([[User talk:Levi657|talk]]) 18:28, 5 March 2019 (UTC))
:::No. Both the final death of Dark Riku, and the Ultimania, state that Dark Riku is the Riku Replica from the period of time in which it ''thought'' it was Ansem-possessed Riku.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:01, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
::::[https://forums.khinsider.com/spoilers/218575-kingdom-hearts-3-story-discussion-48.html Good explanation of scene].{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:01, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
So his fractured heart was picked up after his final battle with Ven by Youngnort, but his fixing of his heart happened after he got a replica body rather than in-between games. That works too. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 18:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)


I agree with NeutraVega. A theories section would defeat the purpose of the wiki being for facts. We will add information as it is given to us by the game designers, not add our ideas of what the designers ''might'' say. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 20:52, October 23, 2009 (UTC)


Okay, so KH3D might actually inform some of this:


:{{NeutraVega|Lapis, my man, I truly wish that was the case. But alas, there is a wide variety of morons to be found about up in here that tend to contest logic, information, and reasoning with pure drivel and nonsense.}}
*https://www.khinsider.com/news/KH3D-Ultimania-Interviews-Translated-2602
{{TNE|time=02:14, October 24, 2009 (UTC)|text=There you go again, Neutra... Forget the theories section, only the few bits of speculation should be left there. At least for Xion, we had one, and the page was vandalised.}}
*https://www.khinsider.com/news/KH3D-Famitsu-Weekly-Interview-Translated-2603


I don't think it's necessary to go that far, Neutra. There's no harm in speculating, in my opinion, so long as it stays off the actual articles. I'm pretty sure Tetsuya Nomura has said that he leaves mysteries in the series to make us use our imaginations and speculate. It's just that wikias aren't the place for it. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 02:50, October 24, 2009 (UTC)
:— Why did Xehanort and co. word things as if to try and wake Ventus who is inside Sora?
::Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. ''When you see Vanitas (the dark half of Ventus who appeared in KHBBS) overlay Young Xehanort for a moment, that represents Ventus’ heart reacting inside Sora.''
:— What about Vanitas?
::Nomura: ''Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form.'' He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.


{{NeutraVega|You're right.  There isn't any harm in doing speculation. But there is when it comes to involving factual articles in it.}}
So, especially with the clarification from the Ultimania that Demyx and Vexen were benched ''during'' KH3D, I think we can clarify a bit here. Vanitas talks about how his heart is just made of negativity, that the screams and sadness were enough to reconstruct it, that it is still incomplete, and he emphasizes that he's never met Sora ''in the flesh''. So, his weakened heart was brought back from the past, and maybe wasn't strong enough to attach to a replica yet (this is why Vanitas doesn't have a physical form in KH3D). Mike and Sulley are just finishing their playdate with Boo when the Unversed are found, indicating they've just been there for a day (at least, in terms of Monstropolis). So, the implication seems to be (and I don't think is is quite explicit enough to put on the wiki itself, yet), that Vanitas's weak heart was dropped off at Monstropolis, used the Unversed to soak up the remaining surplus of scream energy as well as acquire new screams, and then was strong enough for a Replica. As far as I can tell, we don't even see him physically interacting with anything at Monstropolis until ''after'' the Lump of Horror is defeated.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:28, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
{{TNE|time=13:07, October 24, 2009 (UTC)|blahtext=After all, the whole purpose of the few bits of speculation is to keep the enthusiasm up. While too much of speculation's bound to damage the article, a few wouldn't hurt. If there ever should be a theory section, that's the section where our current speculation is. No more, and any further speculation should come into the talk page for filtering.}}


{{NeutraVega|Enthusiasm?  Keep it up?  Is it me, or have you forgotten Master Eraqus?  That, my dear, is the result of "trying to keep up enthusiasm."  Everyone got all excited like, and it turned into a shitstorm.  And don't you DARE say I started it all...  If anything, you all got to thinking straight afterwards.  Let's not have an encore.}}
:To back this up, Vexen says at The Caribbean that not even his finest replica could continue existing without a heart.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:59, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
== Randall ==


I'd also like to bring something up; Vanitas and the other characters from Birth By Sleep are from a game that has yet to be released, meaning that a lot of these questions will be answered during the course of the game. There is no reason to speculate on the articles until the game has been released and some questions answered. Basically, a speculation section in any article about a game that has yet to be released is pointless, as the release of the game will likely render the contents of the section moot. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 03:24, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
*Vanitas encountered the monster [[Randall]], who told him about [[Monstropolis]] and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy.
:...NeutraVega, please don't engage in denial. We put up an article based on the best information we had, backed up by multiple sites, and you raised a shit-fulled temper tantrum. Certain editors over-reacted to your calls that we report nothing at all, but the blame for the spectacle rests squarely on your shoulders.
**What is the source that Randall specifically informed Vanitas of how screams were used for energy, instead of just negativity being harvested?
:Here's a hint - information translated by those of our editors who are ''fluent in Japanese'' is only ''unofficial'', not "groundless specualtion".[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 09:59, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
*Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter,
**That's not why Randall was banished in the movie. What is the source for this being the cause in the game?
*Vanitas encourages Randall's belief that scream power was more reliable,
**Source? Randall's driving force in the movies was just that scream power made ''him'' more important, since it was what he was best at. Randall wants to be the star.
*stating that if a child's heart was broken over something truly precious to to them, they would be a limitless source of negative emotions.
**this sounds like script regurgitation.
*Vanitas repairs the doorway Randall had been banished through using a dark corridor.
**source?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:30, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Should probably be rewritten (I just put back what was there before). The only part I think is accurate is that Vanitas finds Randall and helps him get back by fixing the door. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 17:38, 8 March 2019 (UTC)


{{NeutraVega|Don't insult my godamn intelligence; I know full well the difference between speculation and unofficial albeit factual information.  The shit that was in there was outright crap straight from KHInsider forums.  That's not to say all of it was.  But a fair chunk?  Damn straight.  Like I said...no encore performances.  Let's stick to facts.  Intriguing trivia, sure.  Speculation?  lolno}}
I rewatched the scenes, and I think this is a good summary (needs to be rewritten for Vanitas PoV):


We're going the best we can. And besides, half of that speculation is made by anonymous viewers or other users who are still new here. They don't know better. Just lay off.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 17:43, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
Fortunately for him, Vanitas found him and decided to exploit his ambition and desire for revenge. Vanitas fixed Randall's door, allowing him to return to Monsters, Inc. and attempt to reclaim his prior prestige. However, believing that laugh power is unsustainable, he still insisted on exploiting negative emotional energy, and allied with Vanitas's Unversed to acquire it. With their help, he infiltrated the factory and weaponized its machinery.
:...You complained about the name (and that only, looking at the page). Which was translated straight from the katakana, and was checked against multiple Japanese news sites.
:Besides his name, nothing on [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/index.php?title=Master_Eraqus&oldid=188689 this version of the page] was unconfirmed. And that's the version of the page that we had while you were whining. And with respect to the final confirmed name, your tantrum amounted to saying we should delete all information and pictures we had just because the name ended up having a "u" shifted over one place. Wow, what a huge difference.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:29, October 26, 2009 (UTC)


{{NeutraVega|That's right.  I complained.  And I was RIGHT.  I TOLD you to wait until an official romanization was out.  But you were dead set that you were right...  I fail to see why you would even bring that up, and use it against me considering you were wrong...}}
{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:35, 18 March 2019 (UTC)


Small note: If you weren't so massively in denial you would notice that I was ''not'' "dead set that I was right", and even posted a possible alternate name based on what the Japanese sites were saying. I was, however, ''dead set on not deleting an entire article on a character just because his name might have a "u" shifted''.
==Update "Design" image==
I was wondering whether we should keep the current picture or replace it with one from KH3, when Ven sees Sora for the first time and imagines Vanitas's unmasked face, as seen at the very start of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syQmSebusKs this video] (it's pretty LQ, but convenient). [[User:Immblueversion|Immblueversion]] ([[User talk:Immblueversion|talk]]) 16:46, 16 March 2019 (UTC)


But! Oh my goodness, you've just shown me the light. Of ''course'' we should delete an entire page worth of information because the initial translation was not as intended, even if was sensible. In fact, we should delete every single piece of information that hasn't been translated by it's original creators. Hell, how do we even know that the Final Mix games even exist? They haven't been released in English, so their existence must be ridiculous speculation.
== KH3 novel ==


Thank you so, so much, for making our fallacy clear. That's the wrap everyone! NeutraVega's explained why we should deny the existence of the Final Mix material![[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 07:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
New info from the KH3 novel (https://blowingoffsteam2.tumblr.com/post/186619968004). --[[Special:Contributions/84.203.5.141|84.203.5.141]] 21:35, 31 October 2019 (UTC)


:Well said ! '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 13:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
:I just read the post, was that really from the legit novel, because of so then we REALLY REALLY know stuffs gonna go down in the next one. [[User:ZBroadcast|ZBroadcast]] ([[User talk:ZBroadcast|talk]]) 10:37 8 December, 2019 (UTC)


:Too much QQing going on... does it really matter if we speculate or not? --[[User:Guyviroth|<span style="color:black"><b>Black Judgment of Guyviroth</b></span>]] 13:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
== Graveyard Keyblades ==
::Note to self: Never make Kryten mad.... Well, there needs to be a medium with our speculation. Too much speculation is bad for the article but having some isn't terrible. - [[User:HeartOfOblivion|<span style="color:#FF0000">'''Heart''']]<span style="color:#A9A9A9">'''Of'''[[User talk:HeartOfOblivion|<span style="color:#000000">'''Oblivion''']] 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


Ha, if you ask me, every released bit of information is '''bound''' to have speculation in its early stages. I know quite a bit of PR and journalism theory to actually say this. There's no stopping the people from speculation. But that doesn't mean that we have to be '''flamed''' for it. Which reminds me, there's [[User:Unbirth|another user]] who found that the speculation was wrong (his guess was right), but took it very gracefully. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
The ''KHIII ReMind'' fight with Vanitas gives the name for the Keyblade Graveyard Keyblades as '''Vanitas' Keyblades''', should they get a page or at least be mentioned in his Weapon section? --[[Special:Contributions/84.203.0.65|84.203.0.65]] 15:34, 22 February 2020 (UTC)


== Brothers ==


i dont think ther is. just as long as u tell that its speculation...by putting it in a speculation section *cough cough* -mr.XeroXero
So Vanitas at different points in KH3 calls Sora and Ven his brothers. What are your guys take on it. Should we consider Sora, Ven, and Vanitas as 3 brothers? I know they aren't brothers in the conventional sense, but in this wiki should we refer to them more as "brothers"? Vanitas conveyed decent logic towards the 3 of them being brothers. {{unsigned|Keybladefan0204}}
:EXACTLY, but if we do put in one, we have to limit the number of speculation bits just like we did for Xion, Ven, Terra and Aqua. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 14:00, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
:They're not brothers, so no. We can mention that Vanitas calls them his brothers, but that's about it. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)


Yes!! even if its limited i dont mind. i rly do like to read what other ppl think n stuff.
== New info about Vanitas from the Official Character Book==
So I found this new detail, turns out Vanitas' Keyblade doesn't have an actual official name (Despite the Vanitas Remnant giving the Void Gear Keyblade upon defeat), but it does note on the gear motif and blue eye of the design. Should we update any info on Vanitas then?
Link is right here: https://twitter.com/petalscythe/status/1233097044224610315


I suppose that could work so long was we regulate the speculation, but I think we should wait until ''after'' Birth By Sleep comes out. That way, more questions can be answered and the speculation section can be for the unanswered questions. It'll be more organized. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 02:17, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
[[User:YeetusVanitas2010|YeetusVanitas2010]] ([[User talk:YeetusVanitas2010|talk]]) 17:47, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
:My thoughts exactly. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#FF1493">je t'♥</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF">mélancolie !</font>]]'''</sub> 02:42, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
:These stories are third-tier canon. Not to mention, Void Gear was confirmed to be its name in one of the Ultimanias. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 03:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 
We have this discussion on and off since 2010. In an interview for BBS Nomura confirmed, that you get Vanitas's Keyblade from Vanitas Remnant, which makes it synonymous with the Void Gear. Still the [https://i.imgur.com/aLL1Etgg.jpg Memorial Ultimania] and now the Character Book only name it "Vanitas's Keyblade", which is why this name appears also on the Void Gear page since we don't have a separate article for the colored variant. It's more a formality I think, they simply make a distinction between a Keychain's name and the Keyblade's actual name like with [http://images.khinsider.com/2014%20Uploads/10/Memorial%20Ultimania/bbs_03.png "Master Eraqus' Keyblade (Master Keeper)"] and [http://images.khinsider.com/2014%20Uploads/10/Memorial%20Ultimania/kh2_05.png "Kairi's Keyblade (Destiny Place)"] --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 09:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Hmmm... i agree. itd also keep the Speculation down i guess since more questions WILL be answered. that way it wont tic anyone off if they thunk thers "too much". -mr.xeroxero
 
== Voice Actor==
 
hey, judgementday, i'm not saying you're wrong, (i've definitely heard the voice before, though i'm bad at placing it...) just show us where you found out it was Miyu Irino, and it'll be settled, but unless there is a verified and checkable source, you can't leave his name on the page  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 21:06, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
{{Maggosh|text=I know I've heard his voice before, but I just can't make that connection, like you said. Didn't Nomura say that both Vanitas' and Eraqus' voice actors are 'difficult to hire'?}}
 
ah, the voice of riku? that i think i can hear now... still, is the VA '''officially''' Mamoru Miyano?  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 21:55, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
:It sounds like Miyano, sure, but <big><big>'''we're not putting anything up until it's announced.'''</big></big>—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 22:01, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
::and that's just fine with me  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 22:09, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 
OK, I apologize. However, the reason why I kept undoing many of the changes was because when I got on, I noticed that someone had listed Miyu Irino as the VA. I assumed that was official, and so I decided to make sure that this page kept it that way.
 
Well, I guess this is what I get for assuming. Again, I'm sorry. [[User:JudgmentDay95]]
:It's nothing personally against you, I was just pretty annoyed that by the time I had gotten to the page like four people had already posted Irino/Miyano.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 23:51, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 
{{NeutraVega|@Urutapu: Yeah.  Okiayu and Toyoguchi haven't exactly been announced either...yet, here we are!  But that said...I ''know'' I've heard his voice several times before myself...  But there's NO WAY in hell it's Mamoru Miyano or Miyu Irino...}}
 
 
 
==Removed from page==
"Secret video" synopses are ''not'' canon, and should be restricted to a mention in trivia or lead that "so and so appeared in this secret video". Right now, a few minutes of video barely featuring Vanitas takes up 80% of this article, which is weak.
 
This info should be integrated with the main BBS video page.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:48, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
:It should also be written ''competently'' before being reinserted into article space.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:49, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
Why don't you just add/delete the video article? You don't need to remove the whole thing. Cococrash11
::Because it's not canon, and we have no idea where it fits into the character's history. It shouldn't be on this page at all.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 10:05, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
{{Maggosh|text=Then by all means, remove articles with the ASAS and Deep Dive summary too, since they contain material not represented in the games either.}}
 
What the heck are you talking about? Vanitas's orgin and first apearnce is Birth By Sleep video just like Master Xehanort. WHy don't you include video in the article? Master Xehnort, Terra,Ventus, and Aqua had one to. Cococrash11
::The Story section is supposed to be a chronological summary of that character's plot. Consider - including the video synopsis 1) claims that it is canon, which it is not, and 2) claims that they did the video before they did their actual story. For example, the way Deep Dive was placed for Riku, it claimed he fought Roxas before going to Castle Oblivion, which is wrong.
 
At most, there should be a mention that "X appeared in secret video Y" in the lead or something. However, those videos ARE NOT CANON, and should only be summarized on their own article.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 23:54, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
 
Wait a second you're saying the the video isn't canon but you don't want to include in it? What the heck look at Terra,Ventus,Aqua, Master Xehanort, and Mickey Mouse they both had the Birth By Sleep video and The Gathering video and they didn't erase it like in Vanitas. In this page why can't Vanitas had both? Vanitas isn't included The Gathering is one thing and he dosen't appear in it I understand but his fisrt appearance is in the Birth By Sleep video. So why isn't Birth By Sleep video article mention in Vanitas? If the video article for Vanitas is too big just make it small enough to not watse space, or just include everything in BBS video about Vanitas in the Vanitas page. I thought you guys want to improve articles in this wikia not erase the truth? Beside you're saying that the Riku in Deep Dive is before he went to Catsle Oblivion who told you that? This happen after KHCOM and 358/2 Days not between KHI and KHCOM. cococrash11
::Please don't be an idiot.
#The placement of the Deep Dive video in Riku's article would be between KH and KHCom, which is incorrect.
#It's specifically not truth, it's un-fucking-canon.
 
If you're unwilling to listen at all to what the other person is saying, then just shut up, please.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 13:23, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
 
Shut up! What you did dosne't make any sense. Beside the secret video deep dive is after KH1 FInal Mix and not the story line but the game producction history you idiot. Cococrash11
 
I will say it again.
 
''THE STORY SECTIONS ARE NOT JUST DESCRIPTIONS OF WHAT THE CHARACTER HAS APPEARED IN.'' They are descriptions, in the style of timelines, of ''what happens to the character during the storyline of the series''.
 
'''As placed, the secret video synopses claim that the characters did those things immediately after KH1 and KH2'''. That is nonsense. Riku did not defeat Roxas immediately after KH1 - he waited two games to do it.
 
This is pretty much exactly what I said two comments ago, and the fact that you're rambling on about production history (when I've been emphasizing the '''CANON STATUS''' as the important point) only shows that you're spending your time complaining instead of actually listening. I know damn well when the videos were produced; however, they are NOT CANON, and DO NOT FIT INTO THE CHARACTER'S PLOT SYNOPSIS, any more than the trading card game does. That is why I suggested that the information pertaining to the secret videos be covered ''specifically'' on that video's page, and to only have a link to it here.
:In the future, instead of complaining in what is barely English, please reread the first person's comment so they don't have to repeat it multiple times.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 20:11, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
:::As for your complaining on my talk page - if you can prove that those are the plots for those games, and not just people assuming things from the small snippets we do know, feel free to add them back in. As that is currently impossible, since the game isn't finished, I kind of doubt you'll be able to. As those pages were, they were making false claims, which is unacceptable.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 20:20, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
 
{{GS|time=20:37, October 31, 2009 (UTC)|text=Okay, the concept videos are confirmed to be nothing more than concepts.  That means they're non-cannon.  It's beyond me why people on this wiki love to continue pointless debates about keeping unnecessary information on pages.  All concept video information will be kept on those articles only.  End of story.}}
 
== Should We Consider Secret Videos As Appearances Per Say? ==
 
{{NeutraVega|I'm bound to get heat for bringing this up, but then again, I always get heat for anything.  The consequences of being a logical contributor...  Anyways, I've noticed on this page, Vanitas has the KHIIFM+ emblem on top of the page which directs to whatever game the character appears in.  But...when you think about it, Vanitas never actually appeared in ANY variation of KHII...  At best, it's the secret video, but should that really count as an IN-GAME appearance..., as opposed to say Ven making a cameo in Days, or Aqua's armor showing up in FM+.  Vanitas never really popped up anywhere....so, I'm just kind of curious if that should really stand as it is.}}
{{Maggosh|text=Well, technically, he made his first appearance in the secret video, so I say  keep it.
And I do believe the phrase is 'Per se', not 'Per say'. :P}}
{{NeutraVega|I guess...but what about all the other articles?  It's inconsistent as a fuckall. Once again, I think this is just a case of the jitter fever where a new character gets introduced, and everyone is all excited as hell to cram in as much stuff in as possible...  Also...it works either way, "per say" and "per se."  Neither is incorrect. :P}}
{{Maggosh|text=Well, then, I stand corrected.}}
{{KrytenKoro|I had not noticed that. It should be removed, as Nomura has categorically said that the secret videos are uncanon. You're definitely right about that.
 
"per se (also '''misspelled''' as "per say", "persay" or "persai")"
 
As for "always get heat for anything" - no, you get heat when you act like an arrogant ass. Don't do it, and you'll get along fine.}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Oh, boy...<!--And the war rages on-->...}}
 
{{NeutraVega|"Persai?"  ...Who in the world came up with that one?  Sounds like some bizarre Chinese Prince of Persia MMO ripoff...}}
 
== Sephiroth? Irrelevant. ==
 
Vanitas being similar to Sephiroth is completely irrelevant. When I used to say irrelevant things it would get deleted. This is as well.
 
::Well, the fact that Nomura makes some stupid joke about voicing him doesn't either. As I had said, let staff decide. Trivia is filled with the irrelevant. Accept it. - [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|EternalNothingnessXIII]] 21:37, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
{{Maggosh|text=Hence, 'trivia'.}}
{{EO|time=21:42, November 6, 2009 (UTC)|hooded=Maggosh, are you on MY side in this? And to the other guy (can't remember your name atm), things are only "irrelevant and delete-worthy" when in the actual ARTICLE! Look around at the countless other pages. Tons of redundant facts galore.}}
{{Maggosh|text=Yes, I am, indeed, on your side. Merely emphasizing the fact that trivia has no correlation.}}
::Using the exact same quote as another character designed by the same person is not irrelevant, though.
::Anon, if someone disagrees with your edit, you discuss it on the talk page, you don't get into an edit war, or you'll get temporarily blocked. If you are unable to have patience in a discussion, then you're not actually discussing, you're just demanding you get your way. That's not how it works.
::EO, the wiki is not ruled by the staff. A better reason for reverting the anon's edit was that he hadn't discussed it or given an edit reason, which is what needs to be done when removing content (unless blatantly vandalism). But if you two can come to a cordial decision on your own, that is much preferable than dragging the staff into it.
::I've changed it to something that uses the most recent use of that quote by a Nomura character, in what I feel is a more likely analogy. However, it's still a very common thing for the bad guy to say, so it would be fair to remove it if there is still contriversy.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:23, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
I realized the potential edit war. That was why I mentioned staff. I know how things work. Sephiroth has more to do with than Garland, however. We could phrase it as :
 
*Vanitas/Sephiroth thing...(insert Garland connection here)
 
That way, we add even MORE redundancy. Sephiroth has the plot connection, and Garland has the character creator connection. - [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|EternalNothingnessXIII]] 22:27, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
 
 
...
<blockquote>This is a battle quote utilized by Sephiroth, another man who turns to darkness and abandons his old allegiences in the ''Final Fantasy series'', similar to how this Keyblade warrior falls to the dark and leaves the Keyblade masters of the Realm of Light. </blockquote>
 
Replace "Sephiroth" with "Garland" and you still have a true statement. Hell, Garland turns more literally to darkness than Sephiroth, who just throws a mega-tantrum. And Garland ''literally'' leaves the masters of Light, and is a parallel to the "Warrior of Light" (coughcough Ventus coughcough). Then, we have that Sephiroth has already appeared as a totally separate character in KH, negating any possibility for him to be Vanitas.
:If we keep the trivia note at all, Garland and not Sephiroth should be used, I think. There's just no way that a Vanitas-Sephiroth connection would "mean" anything, since Vanitas is explicitly not Sephiroth.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:37, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
::There's no way he'd be Garland though. I'd say the only fair thing we do is come up with some way to combine the two. They're both right. - [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|EternalNothingnessXIII]] 22:40, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
:::I honestly think that using Sephiroth is stretching it, though, since Shinra was never the paragon of light, and Sephiroth didn't so much go straight to Darkness as just decide that everyone else was evil.
:::I guess it is somewhat relevant in that Sephiroth uses the quote within the KH series, but it's still pushing it to relate Vanitas to him, I feel.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:49, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
I know, Kryten, and I respect your opinion. Don't get me wrong. We really don't know how Vanitas tursn to darkness, or how/why/if he even does. I think we should stick with Sephiroth, as he's actually in KH. As I said, I think we could somehow mention Garland, as well. - [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|EternalNothingnessXIII]] 22:52, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
 
{{NeutraVega|Well this topic takes the cake for ultimate pointlessness...  Do I need to repeat what I've been trying to say past few weeks?  ''Don't add what isn't necessary!''  It's really not that critical...}}
::If your sum total of "contribution" is to come in and say "Look at me!", then please go the fuck away. You are annoying as all get out.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 00:06, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 
I agreed! You've been nothing, but trouble lately! You're worst than everyone at school I know! What the heck is your problem, anyway!?! I'm sick of you! Seeing you strut around like you're always right! OUI'NA YH YCCRUMA!--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 00:10, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
:Calling someone an asshole, even in another language should not be tolerated. NinjaSheik don't do it again and apologize as your intervention in this discussion was pointless and rude. --{{User:Yer mom/Sig}} 00:22, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 
Fine, I'm sorry for cursing. But, that doesn't chnage how I feel...<!--If we're not allow to cruse, then how come Sir Kryten is always cursing?-->--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 00:25, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 
:One thing is cursing during a conversation and another completely different thing is directly insulting someone. Some people are fine with cursing and some aren't but what is NOT tolerated is a direct attack towards a user. That's exactly why we ban trolls who blank out talk pages and why we don't encourage editors to leave hate messages in said troll's talk pages along with the warnings. --{{User:Yer mom/Sig}} 00:29, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 
Okay...Sorry.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 00:33, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 
{{NeutraVega|Rofl, ok ok.  I'm sorry.  Vanitas is exactly like Garland.  You're right. :) I'll fix that right up.}}
Somehow, I just don't see the connection. Can you please explain how Vanitas, a character who has not had that many lines of dialoge, is similar to Garland, a character who has very little personality. <span style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting">[[User:Ultima The High Seraph|<font color="#1E90FF ">Ult</font>]][[User talk:Ultima The High Seraph|<font color="#000080 ">ima</font>]]</span> 08:20, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
:NV: no one was arguing over content with you. I was asking you to just leave, because you are completely insufferable in your inability to just discuss the article with others without calling other editors idiots and generally acting like a know-it-all. Plus, the whole vandalizing the article to be facetious.
:Ultima: It's a connection that's barely there, but if people want to mention that shared line of dialogue, Garland is the most recent character Nomura was involved with that used that line, and he does have a similar basic plot. However, it's really nothing at all - really, it's just that any connection with Sephiroth isn't useful. It's perfectly acceptable, at least from my point of view, to remove the trivia line completely, because it's a very generic "evil rival" thing to say.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 08:30, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
{{NeutraVega|Now, what is it with you?  Why do you always have to make everything so personal?  Do you even know how childish that is?}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Can someone...Um, explain to me about that triva that was added by NeutraVega? It was speculation and I thought we hated speculation, so...Oh, never mind.}}
{{NeutraVega|Apparently not.  I too thought it was pointless to add Garland, but if any of the above posts proved, we MUST have Garland in the article.  So I added it.  Then they deleted it.  Lol.  This wiki is so insensibly awesome.  ''No one makes any sense!''}}
{{KrytenKoro|Eh. It basically boils down to "the annoyance of having to add any info to the wiki that you would have if you were still here" <<< "the annoyance of having to deal with your unhelpful bile on the talk pages every other day". After all, why should I tolerate your attacks on other editors when I can just do all of your job myself for exponentially less aggravation?}}
{{NeutraVega|That'd make sense if you were doing my job as your job without any aggravation.  But the fact remains, as long as I'm making edits, adding images, and fixing things up here and there, you aren't doing it. I am. So the aggravation remains.  But it's okay.  I can still be your friend. :)}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Um...Did I say or did anything wrong...?}}
:And from your edits, the only contributions I can see are small edits to the trivia. I think I can safely say that if you were not able to be here, the trivia would be safely handled by anyone else. As I told you a while back, if you want to claim that you're helpful, do it without trying to make the other editors miserable. You aren't the golden boy you think you are, and if you want to be respected, you can't have that attitude.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 01:43, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
 
== Vanitas = Leon ==
 
Before I begin, sorry if this isn't formated right. ANYWAYS, I was thinking the other day about Vanitas' true identity and I just so happen to be reading Leon's bio, it says that Leon changed his name to escape his past, well maybe Leon was ashamed of what he did with Master Xehenort and changed his name. Plus look at the end of Leon's gunblade, there's a key chain that Leon could've modified to turn his Keyblade into a gunblade. Leon would be about 15 during the events of Birth By Sleep, puting him around the age of Terra, Aqua, and Ventus. I know this theory is a little shaky, but I'd like your thoughts. Ookami Hitomatome 21:25, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 
{{NitrousX|xmastext=Well, for one thing, Leon's former name was Squall. Plus, he's a Final Fantasy character, so I don't think they'd use him in that kind of role. Sorry to burst your theory bubble.}}
 
 
I know his name was Squall, but he could've changed his to hide is identity. Plus he's the only character right now that could be him, they say that Vanitas' identity would be reveled at the end of Birth By Sleep. Ookami Hitomatome 22:11, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
::What he means is that the story explicitly says that Leon used to be named Squall, but changed his name due to shame he felt for failing during the ''evacuation'' of Hollow Bastion, not some unspecific darkness in his past. Most likely due to the group losing Cloud, or some other FF character. While Leon sure knows more about the Keyblade than is reasonable, it is completely possible he learned it just from the Ansem Reports (which they do claim, at one point).[[Special:Contributions/128.210.26.20|128.210.26.20]] 22:16, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
{{NitrousX|xmastext=Yeah, but you're forgetting the whole "Don't use FF characters that way" thing.}}
 
Yea...true.... OK. I'm turning this post into a "Find Vanitas' Identity" thing. Who could possibly be Vanitas besides any FF character?
 
Ookami Hitomatome 22:27, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 
:Vanitas is probably the Darkness in Ventus' heart or something... '''<font face="Trebuchet MS"><span style="background:#3300CC">[[User:Bluerfn|<span style="color:white"><sup>BLUER</sup></span>]]</span>[[User talk:Bluerfn|<span style="color:#CC0011">一番</span>]]</font>''' 16:12, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 
== Vanitas's identity  ==
 
I honestly dont care if they dont reavel who he is, that mask thing looks awesome!
imo Vanitas is the Young version of Xahnort who was in kingdom hearts, he probobly gose insane with power, takes his masters name, and at the end of the game is found by ansem the wise.--[[User:Foutlet|Foutlet]] 20:47, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
 
It couldnt be Xehenort because he was working with Ansem the Wise
 
Ookami Hitomatome 00:01, December 2, 2009 (UTC)
 
 
Possibly Vanitas could be: Ansem the wise. Terra's Emboiment of darkness [Xehanort] (like cloud/Sephorth).
It's not Leon, Leon doesnt make that important relevance in Kigndom Hearts series. Not as much as terra and DIZ
 
Could be Riku's Dad
 
Could be Terra's Mirror of himself... it could possibly be what terra TRULY is...DARKNESS
 
 
. That's why Master Xehanort asks him to try and defeat Vanitas because he wants to test Terra to see if he can really beat darkness itself. or will he eventually succumb to darkness..............
 
 
{{Venkix|text= Hmm... your theory could be possibly correct.}}
 
== Zera ==
 
ke onda!! whats up everyone XDDD.^_^
 
{{Template:LapisScarab|time=01:05, December 2, 2009 (UTC)|text=Please don't leave a comment on an article talk page unless it is relevant to the article.}}
 
== Vanitas's voice actor ==
 
In KH13.com it said Vanitas has the same voice as Sora. --[[User:Cococrash11|Cococrash11]] 21:24, December 19, 2009 (UTC)Cococrash11
 
 
naaaaah it can't be
 
 
People saying "Oh, he sounded like so'n'so" is not actual confirmation. Is there an interview, a magazine article, was it mentioned on the actor's website? Is there anything that's an actual source, and not just people trying to recognize a voice from a trailer? [[User:HarpieSiren|HarpieSiren]] 22:14, December 19, 2009 (UTC)
 
I don't think there is anything saying that they share a voice but Vanitas does sound a bit like Sora, only older but seeing all the mystery surrounding Vanitas we'll probably have to wait until the game comes out in a couple of weeks.--[[User:Masgrande|Masgrande]] 01:30, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
 
== Xemnas limit = All VANITY ==
 
Coincidence ?
Vanitas = Vanity ... We do know Vanitas has a connection to Ven... Maybe his fight against Terra made him forget everything... maybe Terra's essence and his will fuse somehow during Terra's sacrifice in order to get rid of him or something... thus creating the empty shell Xehanort. The story is forced to end badly for Terra, so either he becomes Xehanort, either he dies trying to kill Xehanort or his apprentice. But I think he's responsible for the "new" Xehanort.--[[User:Ataradesu|Ataradesu]] 01:55, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
==KHIIFM==
{{EO|time=00:33, December 30, 2009 (UTC)|shocked=What became of the story information on ''Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix'''s secrect ending? The other pages have them... last time I checked. Or is this redundant/pointless?}}
{{KrytenKoro|They shouldn't have them. Only the (video) page should have that summary.}}
 
{{HeartFallout|time=03:57, December 31, 2009 (UTC)|text= Honestly, whoever Vanitas is, He seems real friggin' awsome from the trailers.}}
 
== Not Xehanort's Apprentice ==
 
{{Template:ST|time=13:35, December 31, 2009 (UTC)|text=In the new trailer, Vanitas is spoken about as a threat that appeared, not a keyblade apprentice that went rogue. is it possible that xehanort and Vanitas are just allies instead of master and apprentice?}}
 
I think it's Xehanort's plan in order to gain the trios trust. [[Special:Contributions/80.101.62.155|80.101.62.155]] 21:45, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
 
== Not Xehanort ==
 
{{Xiggie|time=00:37, January 2, 2010 (UTC)|text=I think that we can cross out the theory of Vanitas being the [[Xehanort]] we know.
 
We know that Xehanort had white hair and white eyebrows, and in the newly released picture of [[:File:Vanitas eye.jpg|Vanitas's eye]], he has black eyebrows! does that mean that he isn't Xehanort? I'd say so!}}
 
{{Maggosh|text=Isn't it possible for it to change?}}
 
{{Xabryn|text=we kepp with the theory of Terra being Xehanort and his eyes and hair color are also differents(I feel bad for disagreeing with your theory, i don't want Vanitas to be Xehanort but these are the facts)}}
 
== An idea for Vanitas' Appearance. ==
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/2d7sh2p.png
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/Picture5-1.png
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/2d7sh2p2.png
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/2d7sh2p3.png
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/2d7sh2p4.png
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/Picture6-1.png

Latest revision as of 18:35, 4 September 2021

Archive
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Nomura Interview[edit]

I finished adding proper citations to Vanitas's page, but I'm having trouble tracking one of the interviews down. In Vanitas's Trivia section, there is a line that states: "Nomura also stated in another interview that Vanitas's identity was familiar and perhaps also shocking."

However, I spent days combing through the KHInsider's archives for the interviews and I've tried Google-ing, but I can't seen to find the interview where Nomura-sensei said that Vanita's face is supposed to "shock" fans, which is stated as part of the interview. I tried going back to the Keyhole where that trivia was first inserted into the page, but I got nothing. When I tried typing keywords in the search engine, I couldn't find anything. Does anyone remember which interview Nomura-sensei said that? Was it in a video interview or at a con where one of the trailers were shown? I took the sentence out of the trivia section, because unless it's sourced, it doesn't really belong there. Besides, I don't think it fitted well since it had more to do Vanitas's voice.--NinjaSheik 23:10, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Monstropolis pre-3D[edit]

"he says his heart needed to be reconstructed using negative emotions, meaning he was collected at some point after his battle with Ventus (as that was when his heart was shattered). His journal entry also refers to him as being from after BBS"

  • No, it doesn't. It means that he, currently, is after KHBBS. Nothing more.
  • His journal entry absolutely does not say that. It says:
A member of the real Organization XIII.
This is the pure darkness that Master Xehanort extracted from Ventus's heart. He was pitted against Ventus in order to forge the X-blade, but Ventus prevailed and Vanitas ceased to exist.
Now that he is back, he continues to seek his "brother," Ventus.

This is exactly parallel to all of the other Org profiles talking about how Sora or Riku killed them. Xemnas's profile talks about they "put an end to his plans and Xemnas himself." Ansem's talks about him being destroyed. They both also say how, despite their destruction, they've returned.

There is nothing in the journal that indicates that Vanitas came back into existence on his own, instead of being snatched before his death in BBS, just like the other org members were."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 21:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

His heart was shattered at the end of BBS, why would it need to be reconstructed in Monstropolis if he was snatched from before it being shattered? The journal saying "now that he is back, he continues to seek his "brother," Ventus" is different from the others ("despite this Ansem/Xemnas has returned") as his refers to him as being back from his defeat and continuing with his prior task. --Vanitas (talk) 21:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Because it was already damaged by the climax of KHBBS. In addition, with the events following. Vanitas was originally unstable until Sora's heart connected with Ventus's -- if that link has been tampered with (CoM, etc.), even if the heart is taken to the future, you'd expect there to be instability again.
referring to him being back from his defeat is the same language used for Ansem and Xemnas.
It refers to him continuing his task, because its his own task apart from the organization's plans. He's one of the few Organization members doing his own thing.
The Ultimania specifically says this is Vanitas "from the past", and the events with Randall are implied to have just happened, based on the fact that Sully, who works at Monsters Inc. every day, was not aware anything was amiss at first.
There is no mechanism provided anywhere in the series for him to have just "come back", and if he had, what would be the point of snatching him from the past? He'd already be there. Snatching from the past was only supposed to be a mechanism for retrieving those who were irretrievably destroyed."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 22:11, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Also, I have no idea where all this is from:
"Vanitas's fractured heart met the monster Randall, who told him about Monstropolis and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy. Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter, Vanitas manipulates Randall using his desire for revenge"
If it was explicitly mentioned in the scenes, fine, but I don't recall anything indicating that Vanitas found Randall in Louisiana and had this conversation with him."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 22:16, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Wasn't his heart only fragmented after his final fight with Ventus in BBS? It wouldn't need to be reconstructed otherwise. Vanitas implies to Mike that the Unversed and Randall have been working behind the scenes, making canisters of scream energy under their noses. He also did say that he found Randall. He could have been picked up from the past because they could not obtain him in the present, like Xion. --Vanitas (talk) 22:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Xion was taken from the past so that they'd have an obedient version -- and even with being taken from her puppet days, she still had links of friendship to Sora and Lea.
His heart was damaged from the very moment of his creation. That's why the Unversed existed to begin with."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 23:04, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

They also collected every member of the org via time travel in DDD even though most existed in the present. Anyhow, maybe it would be best to just put the info back in the KHIII section and not mention what point in the past he was collected from. --Vanitas (talk) 23:09, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

No, they didn't. The KH3D and KH3 Ultimania explicitly say they didn't. The ones that existed in the present just showed up on their own.
The KH3 Ultimania explicitly says that the replica contains the heart of "Vanitas from the past". That only makes sense as being a reference to BBS.
Also, I need to rephrase what I said about Xion -- they picked a certain point in time to pluck her from because that was when she was most pliant, but the reason they needed to use time travel in the first place is that she had already reunited with Sora."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 23:18, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Well it does not say exactly where in the past he comes from, so we don't need to explicitly say (like how we're not mentioning it with Repliku). Even going by him not existing post-BBS, he could be from pre-BBS. --Vanitas (talk) 23:23, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

We know when Repliku is taken from. It's from before Namine undid the brainwashing on him. If it's not in the article, it should be.::"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:12, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Is it not that Dark Riku is from the time when Ansem possessed Riku, rather than being Riku Replica's Heart? From what I understood that was how it worked and the Replica comment was just concerning the vessel within which Dark Riku's Hearts was within. I also agree with what has been said regarding Vanitas' own Heart. Ultimania states that he's from the past, and i think that the work the Unversed did to collect negative emotions was just to fill out Vanitas' Heart and allow him to be a complete being on his own - since he'd still otherwise lack half a Heart, just like Ventus. But at the same time - he still sought to join his Heart with Ventus's, which would suggest that he is simply restored from post KHBBS. I think it's more of a slip up somewhere on Nomura's part to be honest (Levi657 (talk) 18:28, 5 March 2019 (UTC))
No. Both the final death of Dark Riku, and the Ultimania, state that Dark Riku is the Riku Replica from the period of time in which it thought it was Ansem-possessed Riku."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 20:01, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Good explanation of scene."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:01, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

So his fractured heart was picked up after his final battle with Ven by Youngnort, but his fixing of his heart happened after he got a replica body rather than in-between games. That works too. --Vanitas (talk) 18:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)


Okay, so KH3D might actually inform some of this:

— Why did Xehanort and co. word things as if to try and wake Ventus who is inside Sora?
Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. When you see Vanitas (the dark half of Ventus who appeared in KHBBS) overlay Young Xehanort for a moment, that represents Ventus’ heart reacting inside Sora.
— What about Vanitas?
Nomura: Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form. He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.

So, especially with the clarification from the Ultimania that Demyx and Vexen were benched during KH3D, I think we can clarify a bit here. Vanitas talks about how his heart is just made of negativity, that the screams and sadness were enough to reconstruct it, that it is still incomplete, and he emphasizes that he's never met Sora in the flesh. So, his weakened heart was brought back from the past, and maybe wasn't strong enough to attach to a replica yet (this is why Vanitas doesn't have a physical form in KH3D). Mike and Sulley are just finishing their playdate with Boo when the Unversed are found, indicating they've just been there for a day (at least, in terms of Monstropolis). So, the implication seems to be (and I don't think is is quite explicit enough to put on the wiki itself, yet), that Vanitas's weak heart was dropped off at Monstropolis, used the Unversed to soak up the remaining surplus of scream energy as well as acquire new screams, and then was strong enough for a Replica. As far as I can tell, we don't even see him physically interacting with anything at Monstropolis until after the Lump of Horror is defeated."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:28, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

To back this up, Vexen says at The Caribbean that not even his finest replica could continue existing without a heart."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:59, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Randall[edit]

  • Vanitas encountered the monster Randall, who told him about Monstropolis and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy.
    • What is the source that Randall specifically informed Vanitas of how screams were used for energy, instead of just negativity being harvested?
  • Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter,
    • That's not why Randall was banished in the movie. What is the source for this being the cause in the game?
  • Vanitas encourages Randall's belief that scream power was more reliable,
    • Source? Randall's driving force in the movies was just that scream power made him more important, since it was what he was best at. Randall wants to be the star.
  • stating that if a child's heart was broken over something truly precious to to them, they would be a limitless source of negative emotions.
    • this sounds like script regurgitation.
  • Vanitas repairs the doorway Randall had been banished through using a dark corridor.

Should probably be rewritten (I just put back what was there before). The only part I think is accurate is that Vanitas finds Randall and helps him get back by fixing the door. --Vanitas (talk) 17:38, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

I rewatched the scenes, and I think this is a good summary (needs to be rewritten for Vanitas PoV):

Fortunately for him, Vanitas found him and decided to exploit his ambition and desire for revenge. Vanitas fixed Randall's door, allowing him to return to Monsters, Inc. and attempt to reclaim his prior prestige. However, believing that laugh power is unsustainable, he still insisted on exploiting negative emotional energy, and allied with Vanitas's Unversed to acquire it. With their help, he infiltrated the factory and weaponized its machinery.

"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 19:35, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Update "Design" image[edit]

I was wondering whether we should keep the current picture or replace it with one from KH3, when Ven sees Sora for the first time and imagines Vanitas's unmasked face, as seen at the very start of this video (it's pretty LQ, but convenient). Immblueversion (talk) 16:46, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

KH3 novel[edit]

New info from the KH3 novel (https://blowingoffsteam2.tumblr.com/post/186619968004). --84.203.5.141 21:35, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

I just read the post, was that really from the legit novel, because of so then we REALLY REALLY know stuffs gonna go down in the next one. ZBroadcast (talk) 10:37 8 December, 2019 (UTC)

Graveyard Keyblades[edit]

The KHIII ReMind fight with Vanitas gives the name for the Keyblade Graveyard Keyblades as Vanitas' Keyblades, should they get a page or at least be mentioned in his Weapon section? --84.203.0.65 15:34, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Brothers[edit]

So Vanitas at different points in KH3 calls Sora and Ven his brothers. What are your guys take on it. Should we consider Sora, Ven, and Vanitas as 3 brothers? I know they aren't brothers in the conventional sense, but in this wiki should we refer to them more as "brothers"? Vanitas conveyed decent logic towards the 3 of them being brothers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keybladefan0204 (talk • contribs)

They're not brothers, so no. We can mention that Vanitas calls them his brothers, but that's about it. TheSilentHero 17:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

New info about Vanitas from the Official Character Book[edit]

So I found this new detail, turns out Vanitas' Keyblade doesn't have an actual official name (Despite the Vanitas Remnant giving the Void Gear Keyblade upon defeat), but it does note on the gear motif and blue eye of the design. Should we update any info on Vanitas then? Link is right here: https://twitter.com/petalscythe/status/1233097044224610315

YeetusVanitas2010 (talk) 17:47, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

These stories are third-tier canon. Not to mention, Void Gear was confirmed to be its name in one of the Ultimanias. --Samoa Joe (talk) 03:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

We have this discussion on and off since 2010. In an interview for BBS Nomura confirmed, that you get Vanitas's Keyblade from Vanitas Remnant, which makes it synonymous with the Void Gear. Still the Memorial Ultimania and now the Character Book only name it "Vanitas's Keyblade", which is why this name appears also on the Void Gear page since we don't have a separate article for the colored variant. It's more a formality I think, they simply make a distinction between a Keychain's name and the Keyblade's actual name like with "Master Eraqus' Keyblade (Master Keeper)" and "Kairi's Keyblade (Destiny Place)" --ShardofTruth 09:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

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