Talk:Vanitas: Difference between revisions

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==He is the Xheanort we know==
{{archive box|
Look at it this way, "Xheanort" has a habit of stealing his master's names, his "Heartless" armor is also passed down from Xheanort's heartless to Riku, his new apprentice, he even took his master's clothes when he turned into a heartless, also, it is never stated that his name is "Xheanort" It's just the only name he remembers, this makes sense to me, seeing as how Master Xheanort would have been a very powerful figure in his memory.
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 1|Archive 1]] - November 05, 2009
 
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 2|Archive 2]] - January 20, 2010
{{Xiggie|text=Well, it could be him, '''OR''' Terra (See my [http://khxiggie.blogcentral.is/blog/2009/2/1/who-is-xehanort/ blog] about this, and please comment)}}
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 3|Archive 3]] - February 11, 2018
 
}}
I was the one who made that theory NO JOKE visit my [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/User:Kingdomheartsfreek#Kingdom_Hearts_BBS| home page] all that u need to know about that theory is there
 
Death Messenger - Makes sense. Perhaps Vanitas stole Terra's body, that's why Xehanort is so much like Terra.
 
Also, it all fits. His name means Vanity or Nothingness. It matches Xehanort's Heartless and Xemnas perfectly!
 
{{NeutraVega|I don't see why it matters.  Keep this kind of speculation at KHI.  kthxbye}}
{{TNE|time=00:02, October 30, 2009 (UTC)|blahtext=Had I my way I'd have given you a second warning for Wikimisconduct.}}
 
== Trailer Info ==
 
Some of the Birth by Sleep Trailers Have been leaked. in one Master Xehanort Says "Those who Submit to darkness are not qualified to Wield the keyblade. already that man" Cuts to apprentice as he says this "has become a monster consumed by Darkness. use your power to defeat the darkness and correct my mistake." these trailers are on youtube. you might have to dig around a bit but it's there. should be mentioned in a article edit for link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuoA5DL_oM0&feature=related
 
i wonder why xehanort actually says that when in the final mix secret ending he seems to be fighting together with his apprentice and not against him --[[User:Darksoldier|Darksoldier]] 12:47, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 
maybe he changed his mind or that scene happens before this one
 
== Heartless Possibility ==
 
Has anyone considered the possibilty that the aprentice isn't an aprentice at all, but is
in fact Master Xhanort's heartless? After all, in the birth by sleep video they seemed to spit from one being, with one (Master Xehanort) keeping the phisical shape of the original the way that a powerful Nobody does, and the other (the apprentice) becoming more heartless like. Another thing is that the "Apprentice" finished Master Xeanort's sentence in one of the trailers. This did not seem to suprise Master Xehanort or Ven, as if the apprentice ''should'' know what his master is about to say.
--[[User:Hulon2|Hulon2]] 14:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 
{{TNE|text=If that is so, then MX is a Nobody... which seems rather impossible as he is able to wield the Keyblade. Right ? MX looks like anyone who would have a heart, through and through, even if he's the antagonist in the game, and even if he wants to acquire Kingdom Hearts.}}
 
He ''would'' be able to use a Keyblade because, as it says in the article on Keyblades, they are connected to your soul, not your heart. So a Nobody can use a Keyblade because they still have souls. For example, both Roxas and Xion use Keyblades, even though they are Nobodies. As for looking as if he has a heart, who can tell. Axel seemed very heartful to me, but he's a Nobody.--[[User:Hulon2|Hulon2]] 13:34, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 
{{TNE|text=It's connected to the soul of the '''wielder''', who himself has to have a strong heart.}}
 
Well, Roxas was able to weild a Keyblade, two in fact, and he didn't have a heart, so maybe it's the same case with this guy. [[User:Keyblader|Keyblader]] 22:48, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 
{{TNE|blahtext=The only reason why Roxas was able was because of Sora.
 
And then, if you think about it, those two didn't act '''instinctively''', did they ? They seemed to have planned every single attack of theirs. Heartless act by instinct alone.}}
 
Yes, MX fought like he had a plan, ''but'' the "Apprentice" just leapt out and started bashing away.
Later, he noticed the tornado of blades and leapt on to it without stopping at all to think.--[[User:Hulon2|Hulon2]] 13:34, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 
{{TNE|text=And he did it well, didn't he ? Tacticians don't always hesitate during battle. Think Sephiroth.}}
 
I guess we'll know when the game comes out. After all it could be something that none of us have even thought of. After all, if people could figure out they big secret from just watching the trailers, the game wouldn't sell well. They want people to wonder so they make the trailers purposefully vague. Seriously, who could guess that Roxas was Sora's Nobody using only the ''Another Side Another Story'' video?--[[User:Hulon2|Hulon2]] 14:31, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 
{{TNE|text=True. Let's wait and see...}}
 
I think MX apprentice is really the xehanort that we know --KHF 19:53, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 
Eh, it really could go either way, couldn't it? I personally doubt that the Apprentice is a Heartless, but you never do know. After all, he uses a keyblade - wethether the blade's attatched to the soul or the heart, it doesn't matter, because then they couldn't both use a keyblade. Then agian, it might have something to do with those chains...or rather, lack therof. No, wait, The Apprentice and MX both have chains. Okay, I'm lost. But, since Roxas did use a keyblade, despite being a Nobody, I don't think it's fair to just shoot down his theroy. The only problem is whether or not a heartless can use a keyblade, which is, obviously, unlikey. But then agian... Yeah, I don't know. [[User:Keyblade Mage|Keyblade Mage]] 13:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC)Keyblade Mage
 
== Speculation ==
{{yer mom|text=There is a lot of speculation in the Trivia, should we add a special part for theories or leave it where it is? (Some of those theories sound like nonsense tho...}}
 
like what?--KHF 19:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 
i agree with that. there should be a theorys secttion , and some of it does sound like nonsense so you should add a section nammed that too! :D.
but im not in charga that so.....
 
{{NeutraVega|Oh god, PLEASE no theories section...}}
{{Maggosh|text=...And you are?}}
:{{NeutraVega|Tetsuya Nomura.}}
 
I agree with NeutraVega. A theories section would defeat the purpose of the wiki being for facts. We will add information as it is given to us by the game designers, not add our ideas of what the designers ''might'' say. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 20:52, October 23, 2009 (UTC)
 
 
:{{NeutraVega|Lapis, my man, I truly wish that was the case.  But alas, there is a wide variety of morons to be found about up in here that tend to contest logic, information, and reasoning with pure drivel and nonsense.}}
{{TNE|time=02:14, October 24, 2009 (UTC)|text=There you go again, Neutra... Forget the theories section, only the few bits of speculation should be left there. At least for Xion, we had one, and the page was vandalised.}}
 
I don't think it's necessary to go that far, Neutra. There's no harm in speculating, in my opinion, so long as it stays off the actual articles. I'm pretty sure Tetsuya Nomura has said that he leaves mysteries in the series to make us use our imaginations and speculate. It's just that wikias aren't the place for it. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 02:50, October 24, 2009 (UTC)
 
{{NeutraVega|You're right.  There isn't any harm in doing speculation.  But there is when it comes to involving factual articles in it.}}
{{TNE|time=13:07, October 24, 2009 (UTC)|blahtext=After all, the whole purpose of the few bits of speculation is to keep the enthusiasm up. While too much of speculation's bound to damage the article, a few wouldn't hurt. If there ever should be a theory section, that's the section where our current speculation is. No more, and any further speculation should come into the talk page for filtering.}}
 
{{NeutraVega|Enthusiasm?  Keep it up?  Is it me, or have you forgotten Master Eraqus?  That, my dear, is the result of "trying to keep up enthusiasm."  Everyone got all excited like, and it turned into a shitstorm.  And don't you DARE say I started it all...  If anything, you all got to thinking straight afterwards.  Let's not have an encore.}}
 
I'd also like to bring something up; Vanitas and the other characters from Birth By Sleep are from a game that has yet to be released, meaning that a lot of these questions will be answered during the course of the game. There is no reason to speculate on the articles until the game has been released and some questions answered. Basically, a speculation section in any article about a game that has yet to be released is pointless, as the release of the game will likely render the contents of the section moot. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 03:24, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
:...NeutraVega, please don't engage in denial. We put up an article based on the best information we had, backed up by multiple sites, and you raised a shit-fulled temper tantrum. Certain editors over-reacted to your calls that we report nothing at all, but the blame for the spectacle rests squarely on your shoulders.
:Here's a hint - information translated by those of our editors who are ''fluent in Japanese'' is only ''unofficial'', not "groundless specualtion".[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 09:59, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
 
{{NeutraVega|Don't insult my godamn intelligence; I know full well the difference between speculation and unofficial albeit factual information.  The shit that was in there was outright crap straight from KHInsider forums.  That's not to say all of it was.  But a fair chunk?  Damn straight.  Like I said...no encore performances.  Let's stick to facts.  Intriguing trivia, sure.  Speculation?  lolno}}
 
We're going the best we can. And besides, half of that speculation is made by anonymous viewers or other users who are still new here. They don't know better. Just lay off.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 17:43, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
:...You complained about the name (and that only, looking at the page). Which was translated straight from the katakana, and was checked against multiple Japanese news sites.
:Besides his name, nothing on [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/index.php?title=Master_Eraqus&oldid=188689 this version of the page] was unconfirmed. And that's the version of the page that we had while you were whining. And with respect to the final confirmed name, your tantrum amounted to saying we should delete all information and pictures we had just because the name ended up having a "u" shifted over one place. Wow, what a huge difference.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:29, October 26, 2009 (UTC)
 
{{NeutraVega|That's right.  I complained.  And I was RIGHT.  I TOLD you to wait until an official romanization was out.  But you were dead set that you were right...  I fail to see why you would even bring that up, and use it against me considering you were wrong...}}
 
Small note: If you weren't so massively in denial you would notice that I was ''not'' "dead set that I was right", and even posted a possible alternate name based on what the Japanese sites were saying. I was, however, ''dead set on not deleting an entire article on a character just because his name might have a "u" shifted''.
 
But! Oh my goodness, you've just shown me the light. Of ''course'' we should delete an entire page worth of information because the initial translation was not as intended, even if was sensible. In fact, we should delete every single piece of information that hasn't been translated by it's original creators. Hell, how do we even know that the Final Mix games even exist? They haven't been released in English, so their existence must be ridiculous speculation.
 
Thank you so, so much, for making our fallacy clear. That's the wrap everyone! NeutraVega's explained why we should deny the existence of the Final Mix material![[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 07:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
 
:Well said ! '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 13:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
 
:Too much QQing going on... does it really matter if we speculate or not? --[[User:Guyviroth|<span style="color:black"><b>Black Judgment of Guyviroth</b></span>]] 13:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
::Note to self: Never make Kryten mad.... Well, there needs to be a medium with our speculation. Too much speculation is bad for the article but having some isn't terrible. - [[User:HeartOfOblivion|<span style="color:#FF0000">'''Heart''']]<span style="color:#A9A9A9">'''Of'''[[User talk:HeartOfOblivion|<span style="color:#000000">'''Oblivion''']] 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
 
Ha, if you ask me, every released bit of information is '''bound''' to have speculation in its early stages. I know quite a bit of PR and journalism theory to actually say this. There's no stopping the people from speculation. But that doesn't mean that we have to be '''flamed''' for it. Which reminds me, there's [[User:Unbirth|another user]] who found that the speculation was wrong (his guess was right), but took it very gracefully. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
 
 
i dont think ther is. just as long as u tell that its speculation...by putting it in a speculation section *cough cough* -mr.XeroXero
:EXACTLY, but if we do put in one, we have to limit the number of speculation bits just like we did for Xion, Ven, Terra and Aqua. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 14:00, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
 
Yes!! even if its limited i dont mind. i rly do like to read what other ppl think n stuff.
 
I suppose that could work so long was we regulate the speculation, but I think we should wait until ''after'' Birth By Sleep comes out. That way, more questions can be answered and the speculation section can be for the unanswered questions. It'll be more organized. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 02:17, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
:My thoughts exactly. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#FF1493">je t'♥</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF">mélancolie !</font>]]'''</sub> 02:42, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
 
Hmmm... i agree. itd also keep the Speculation down i guess since more questions WILL be answered. that way it wont tic anyone off if they thunk thers "too much". -mr.xeroxero
 
== Theroy ==
 
Is it possible that Master Xehanorts Apprentice is Xigbar because of how he talked about seeing them before and how he saw xion as ven?
 
Well their bodies don't match and since a nobody is supposed to look their former selfs with only minor changes it doesn't seem likely.--[[Special:Contributions/74.210.24.180|74.210.24.180]] 22:52, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 
I think that the apprentice is Xehanort, as in Ansem the seeker of darkness, or Xemnas, that Xehanort. Well, my famous friend from Camp thinks that. Anyway, I agree and well remember how Xehanort had lost all his memories when Ansem found him? We think he took the name Xehanort, like when he went to the dark he called himself Ansem. Also, he's been an apprentice before, and in the Manga, Maleficent screams at Riku "YOU!" and she doesn't mean Riku. She had caused problems for Master Xehanort and his apprentice in Birth by Sleep, and she might be reconizing him. (or however you spell it...)--[[User:PrincessAndie8thprincessofheart|I&lt;3&#39;slarxel]] 13:27, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 
{{Keyblader|text=Has anyone considered the possibility that Master Xehanort and his apprentice might be humanoid Unbirths? And the fact is, no one actually inside the game production has confirmed that the upper-level Unbirths, like the upper-level Nobodies, actually have to look like their original human counterparts.}}
 
 
And that Ansem the seeker of darkness somehow remained human form after becoming a Heartless. Hmm Interesting...--[[User:PrincessAndie8thprincessofheart|I&lt;3&#39;slarxel]] 14:15, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 
Well, I think that he is related to Spider-Man. I mean, look at his costume! And since Disney bought Marvel, it's entirely possible. [[User:JesseRoo|Jesse]][[User talk:JesseRoo|Roo]]
 
Please, that has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
 
That guy was in development LONG before Disney bought Marvel.
 
[http://www.sarcasmdetector.com/product.html Here's something that you might be interested in.] [[User:JesseRoo|Jesse]][[User talk:JesseRoo|Roo]]
 
{{Khgurl|text=I was thinking if MX's apprentice is probably a new character we haven't seen before. The possibilities are slim that the apprentice might be Xehanort. If we are right when BBS comes out, it'll kinda ruin the big surprise. There might be a large chance that it's a new character we haven't cross before.
And to Keyblader, if the apprentice is a high-ranking Unverse, there could be a high possibility that you're right. Either way, I'm still standing on the side that the apprentice might be a new character.}}
Although the thoeries sound itneresting i suggest we remove them from the article[[User:Aqua00000|Aqua00000]] 20:45, October 17, 2009 (UTC)
 
== The Apprentice hath Spoken! ==
New BbS trailer at TGS09 revealed the Apprentice's voice to be masculine. Still no voice actor though. Let's get on that.
-Ktnxbai!
 
== A name!!!! ==


{{NitrousX|text=Finally! He has a real name! Just expressing how happy I am about that.}}
==Nomura Interview==
{{Maggosh|time=23:35, October 17, 2009 (UTC)|text= Great!
I finished adding proper citations to Vanitas's page, but I'm having trouble tracking one of the interviews down. In Vanitas's Trivia section, there is a line that states: "Nomura also stated in another interview that Vanitas's identity was familiar and perhaps also shocking."
...
Um, where did it come from again?
EDIT: Never mind, I found it. And yayzorz!}}


{{Morghman| Vanitas, that kinda sounds girly, but I suppose it has some sort of meaning in Japanese or Latin or whatever. But come on... he's got the whole body builder suit, he's the DARK apprentice, his keyblade is off the chain, and his name... is Vanitas. Ah well, is there a picture of him without his mask?
However, I spent days combing through the KHInsider's archives for the interviews and I've tried Google-ing, but I can't seen to find the interview where Nomura-sensei said that Vanita's face is supposed to "shock" fans, which is stated as part of the interview. [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Vanitas?diff=248958&oldid=248857 I tried going back to the Keyhole where that trivia was first inserted into the page, but I got nothing]. When I tried typing keywords in the search engine, I couldn't find anything. Does anyone remember which interview Nomura-sensei said that? Was it in a video interview or at a con where one of the trailers were shown? I took the sentence out of the trivia section, because unless it's sourced, it doesn't really belong there. Besides, I don't think it fitted well since it had more to do Vanitas's voice.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 23:10, 19 February 2018 (UTC)


{{NitrousX|text=Not that I've seen. But maybe someday, keep your fingers crossed.}}
== Monstropolis pre-3D ==


==Picture==
"he says his heart needed to be reconstructed using negative emotions, meaning he was collected at some point after his battle with Ventus (as that was when his heart was shattered). His journal entry also refers to him as being from after BBS"
{{Xemwath|text=Someone with photoshop skills should edit the scan where it only shows Vanitas. Similar to what [[Master Erauqs]]'s edited scan picture looks like.}}


== Keyblade ==
*No, it doesn't. It means that he, currently, is after KHBBS. Nothing more.
*His journal entry absolutely does not say that. It says:


{{NitrousX|text=Shouldn't he and his [[Master Xehanort|master]] have pages for their keyblades, since Terra's, Aqua's, Ven's, and Master Erauqs do?}}
:A member of the real Organization XIII.
{{Maggosh|time=00:23, October 19, 2009 (UTC)|text=I'll get on Vanitas'.
:This is the pure darkness that Master Xehanort extracted from Ventus's heart. He was pitted against Ventus in order to forge the X-blade, but Ventus prevailed and Vanitas ceased to exist.
:Now that he is back, he continues to seek his "brother," Ventus.


EDIT: Done. [[Vanitas' Keyblade]]}}
This is exactly parallel to all of the other Org profiles talking about how Sora or Riku killed them. Xemnas's profile talks about they "put an end to his plans and Xemnas himself." Ansem's talks about him being destroyed. They both also say how, despite their destruction, they've returned.


== Who said his name was Vanitas!? ==
There is nothing in the journal that indicates that Vanitas came back into existence on his own, instead of being snatched before his death in BBS, just like the other org members were.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)


{{User:Xiggie/TalkTemplate
His heart was shattered at the end of BBS, why would it need to be reconstructed in Monstropolis if he was snatched from before it being shattered? The journal saying "now that he is '''back''', he '''continues''' to seek his "brother," Ventus" is different from the others ("despite this Ansem/Xemnas has returned") as his refers to him as being back from his defeat and continuing with his prior task. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 21:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
|image=DaysMarluxia.png
:Because it was already damaged by the climax of KHBBS. In addition, with the events following. Vanitas was originally unstable until Sora's heart connected with Ventus's -- if that link has been tampered with (CoM, etc.), even if the heart is taken to the future, you'd expect there to be instability again.
|imagesize=70px |color=palevioletred
:referring to him being back from his defeat is the same language used for Ansem and Xemnas.
|color2=black
:It refers to him continuing his task, because its his own task apart from the organization's plans. He's one of the few Organization members doing his own thing.
|border=gold
:The Ultimania specifically says this is Vanitas "from the past", and the events with Randall are implied to have ''just happened'', based on the fact that Sully, who works at Monsters Inc. ''every day'', was not aware anything was amiss at first.
|border2=gold
:There is no mechanism provided anywhere in the series for him to have just "come back", and if he had, what would be the point of snatching him from the past? He'd already be there. Snatching from the past was ''only'' supposed to be a mechanism for retrieving those who were irretrievably destroyed.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 22:11, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
|textcolor=black
::Also, I have no idea where all this is from:
|textcolor2=palevioletred
:::"Vanitas's fractured heart met the monster Randall, who told him about Monstropolis and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy. Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter, Vanitas manipulates Randall using his desire for revenge"
|fonttype=Trebuchet MS
::If it was explicitly mentioned in the scenes, fine, but I don't recall anything indicating that Vanitas found Randall in Louisiana and had this conversation with him.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 22:16, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
|name=Coroxn
Wasn't his heart only fragmented after his final fight with Ventus in BBS? It wouldn't need to be reconstructed otherwise. Vanitas implies to Mike that the Unversed and Randall have been working behind the scenes, making canisters of scream energy under their noses. He also did say that he found Randall. He could have been picked up from the past because they could not obtain him in the present, like Xion. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 22:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
|sig=''The Lunar Brigade''
:::Xion was taken from the past so that they'd have an obedient version -- and even with being taken from her puppet days, she still had links of friendship to Sora and Lea.
|time="The Hearts A Battle Ground. But It Matters Not The Outcome Of The Battle, Nor How You Battle. Only That You Battled..."
:::His heart was damaged from the very moment of his creation. That's why the Unversed existed to begin with.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:04, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
|text= Tell ME! It was "Master Xehanort's Aprentice", and now suddenly it's changed to Vanitas! Did Namura say something I missed?!
They also collected every member of the org via time travel in DDD even though most existed in the present. Anyhow, maybe it would be best to just put the info back in the KHIII section and not mention what point in the past he was collected from. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 23:09, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
}}
:No, they didn't. The KH3D and KH3 Ultimania explicitly say they didn't. The ones that existed in the present just showed up on their own.
:The KH3 Ultimania explicitly says that the replica contains the heart of "Vanitas from the past". That only makes sense as being a reference to BBS.
:Also, I need to rephrase what I said about Xion -- they picked a certain point in time to pluck her from because that was when she was most pliant, but the reason they needed to use time travel in the first place is that she had already reunited with Sora.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:18, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Well it does not say exactly where in the past he comes from, so we don't need to explicitly say (like how we're not mentioning it with Repliku). Even going by him not existing post-BBS, he could be from pre-BBS. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 23:23, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:We know when Repliku is taken from. It's from before Namine undid the brainwashing on him. If it's not in the article, it should be.::{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:12, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
::Is it not that Dark Riku is from the time when Ansem possessed Riku, rather than being Riku Replica's Heart? From what I understood that was how it worked and the Replica comment was just concerning the vessel within which Dark Riku's Hearts was within. I also agree with what has been said regarding Vanitas' own Heart. Ultimania states that he's from the past, and i think that the work the Unversed did to collect negative emotions was just to fill out Vanitas' Heart and allow him to be a complete being on his own - since he'd still otherwise lack half a Heart, just like Ventus. But at the same time - he still sought to join his Heart with Ventus's, which would suggest that he is simply restored from post KHBBS. I think it's more of a slip up somewhere on Nomura's part to be honest ([[User:Levi657|Levi657]] ([[User talk:Levi657|talk]]) 18:28, 5 March 2019 (UTC))
:::No. Both the final death of Dark Riku, and the Ultimania, state that Dark Riku is the Riku Replica from the period of time in which it ''thought'' it was Ansem-possessed Riku.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:01, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
::::[https://forums.khinsider.com/spoilers/218575-kingdom-hearts-3-story-discussion-48.html Good explanation of scene].{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:01, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
So his fractured heart was picked up after his final battle with Ven by Youngnort, but his fixing of his heart happened after he got a replica body rather than in-between games. That works too. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 18:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)


:His name was revealed to be Apprentice Vanitas in this month's VJump. [[User:JudgmentDay95]]
:Uh, don't spaz, thanks.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 22:04, October 19, 2009 (UTC)


== Voice Actor==
Okay, so KH3D might actually inform some of this:


hey, judgementday, i'm not saying you're wrong, (i've definitely heard the voice before, though i'm bad at placing it...) just show us where you found out it was Miyu Irino, and it'll be settled, but unless there is a verified and checkable source, you can't leave his name on the page  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 21:06, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
*https://www.khinsider.com/news/KH3D-Ultimania-Interviews-Translated-2602
{{Maggosh|text=I know I've heard his voice before, but I just can't make that connection, like you said. Didn't Nomura say that both Vanitas' and Eraqus' voice actors are 'difficult to hire'?}}
*https://www.khinsider.com/news/KH3D-Famitsu-Weekly-Interview-Translated-2603


ah, the voice of riku? that i think i can hear now... still, is the VA '''officially''' Mamoru Miyano?  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 21:55, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
:— Why did Xehanort and co. word things as if to try and wake Ventus who is inside Sora?
:It sounds like Miyano, sure, but <big><big>'''we're not putting anything up until it's announced.'''</big></big>—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 22:01, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
::Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. ''When you see Vanitas (the dark half of Ventus who appeared in KHBBS) overlay Young Xehanort for a moment, that represents Ventus’ heart reacting inside Sora.''
::and that's just fine with me  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 22:09, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
:— What about Vanitas?
::Nomura: ''Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form.'' He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.


OK, I apologize. However, the reason why I kept undoing many of the changes was because when I got on, I noticed that someone had listed Miyu Irino as the VA. I assumed that was official, and so I decided to make sure that this page kept it that way.
So, especially with the clarification from the Ultimania that Demyx and Vexen were benched ''during'' KH3D, I think we can clarify a bit here. Vanitas talks about how his heart is just made of negativity, that the screams and sadness were enough to reconstruct it, that it is still incomplete, and he emphasizes that he's never met Sora ''in the flesh''. So, his weakened heart was brought back from the past, and maybe wasn't strong enough to attach to a replica yet (this is why Vanitas doesn't have a physical form in KH3D). Mike and Sulley are just finishing their playdate with Boo when the Unversed are found, indicating they've just been there for a day (at least, in terms of Monstropolis). So, the implication seems to be (and I don't think is is quite explicit enough to put on the wiki itself, yet), that Vanitas's weak heart was dropped off at Monstropolis, used the Unversed to soak up the remaining surplus of scream energy as well as acquire new screams, and then was strong enough for a Replica. As far as I can tell, we don't even see him physically interacting with anything at Monstropolis until ''after'' the Lump of Horror is defeated.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:28, 12 March 2019 (UTC)


Well, I guess this is what I get for assuming. Again, I'm sorry. [[User:JudgmentDay95]]
:To back this up, Vexen says at The Caribbean that not even his finest replica could continue existing without a heart.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:59, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
:It's nothing personally against you, I was just pretty annoyed that by the time I had gotten to the page like four people had already posted Irino/Miyano.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 23:51, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
== Randall ==


{{NeutraVega|@Urutapu: Yeah.  Okiayu and Toyoguchi haven't exactly been announced either...yet, here we are!  But that said...I ''know'' I've heard his voice several times before myself...  But there's NO WAY in hell it's Mamoru Miyano or Miyu Irino...}}
*Vanitas encountered the monster [[Randall]], who told him about [[Monstropolis]] and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy.
**What is the source that Randall specifically informed Vanitas of how screams were used for energy, instead of just negativity being harvested?
*Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter,
**That's not why Randall was banished in the movie. What is the source for this being the cause in the game?
*Vanitas encourages Randall's belief that scream power was more reliable,
**Source? Randall's driving force in the movies was just that scream power made ''him'' more important, since it was what he was best at. Randall wants to be the star.
*stating that if a child's heart was broken over something truly precious to to them, they would be a limitless source of negative emotions.
**this sounds like script regurgitation.
*Vanitas repairs the doorway Randall had been banished through using a dark corridor.
**source?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:30, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Should probably be rewritten (I just put back what was there before). The only part I think is accurate is that Vanitas finds Randall and helps him get back by fixing the door. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 17:38, 8 March 2019 (UTC)


== 70 ==
I rewatched the scenes, and I think this is a good summary (needs to be rewritten for Vanitas PoV):


Seventy edits in one day. Absolutely ridiculous. --[[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:navy ;">'''Door'''</span>]][[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:dimgray ;">'''To'''</span>]][[User talk:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:darkslategray ;">'''Nothing'''</span>]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/DoorToNothing|<font face=Trebuchet MS color=red>'''''Kupo!'''''</font>]]</sup> 04:49, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
Fortunately for him, Vanitas found him and decided to exploit his ambition and desire for revenge. Vanitas fixed Randall's door, allowing him to return to Monsters, Inc. and attempt to reclaim his prior prestige. However, believing that laugh power is unsustainable, he still insisted on exploiting negative emotional energy, and allied with Vanitas's Unversed to acquire it. With their help, he infiltrated the factory and weaponized its machinery.


{{NeutraVega|You should've seen Master Eraqus's page.  That was a whole new kind of retardation.}}
{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:35, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
{{TNE|time=02:19, October 27, 2009 (UTC)|blahtext=''Excuse-moi ?''}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Hmph! I'm getting really sick of you, NeutraVega. You got '''WAY''' too much attitude for a kid!}}
{{NitrousX|text=Sorry to intrude, but "retardation"? Seriously? For one thing, you have no business saying that and for another, '''who''' says "retardation" anymore?}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Kids who are immature. Just look at my classmates in school.}}
{{TNE|time=02:34, October 27, 2009 (UTC)|text=Well, guess I'm not gonna break the toy...}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Really? Half the time, I '''WANT''' to break the toy. Don't be fool by well behave personailty. I'm quite...Vicious if I want to be. Maybe even a little like Larxene.}}
{{TNE|time=02:47, October 27, 2009 (UTC)|happytext=Hehehehe, we're just waiting. ^_^ <small>Now if only I could extract Larxene emotions from Chain of Memories.</small>}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=My dear senpai TNE, I feel the exact same way. However, I could never allow myself to do the things Larxene does, unless someone makes me mad. It's a little thing I like to call acting.}}
{{TNE|time=03:38, October 27, 2009 (UTC)|text=Niiiiiiice. <small>You see, there're a lot more decent people like [[User:Unbirth|Unbirth]] - he knows he's right, but he doesn't go around making a show out of it.</small>}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Thanks. And I totally agreed with you about Unbirth.}}
{{Maggosh|text=Well that leads me to believe that he's getting people like you to do the dirty work. :P}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Dirty work? Care to explain by what you mean?}}
{{TNE|time=23:27, October 27, 2009 (UTC)|blahtext=Ha ! If he's counting on us to do the dirty work, he can bloody well do it himself !}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=As if! He'll just make a scene again.}}
{{TNE|time=00:17, October 28, 2009 (UTC)|text=Even ''le cynique'' Kryten can't stand his guts. I guess we'll just leave him there and then let the higher staff do as they see fit. I won't handle him.}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Me either. He's such a brat. He got a lot of attitude for a kid.}}
{{TNE|time=00:27, October 28, 2009 (UTC)|happytext=Just leave him. We ''demoiselles'' know how to go through such situations, don't we ?}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Of course, we do. Guys always takes girls for granted. We're a lot tougher than they think we are!}}
{{Maggosh|text=...what have I started? :(}}
{{TNE|time=01:04, October 28, 2009 (UTC)|happytext=Never mind about what you started, '''I FEEL ALIVE AGAIN !!! :DDDDD'''}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=You didn't start anything. This have been going on for quite some time. And don't mind Madame TNE, she's a little crazy. Hehehe...}}


==Removed from page==
==Update "Design" image==
"Secret video" synopses are ''not'' canon, and should be restricted to a mention in trivia or lead that "so and so appeared in this secret video". Right now, a few minutes of video barely featuring Vanitas takes up 80% of this article, which is weak.
I was wondering whether we should keep the current picture or replace it with one from KH3, when Ven sees Sora for the first time and imagines Vanitas's unmasked face, as seen at the very start of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syQmSebusKs this video] (it's pretty LQ, but convenient). [[User:Immblueversion|Immblueversion]] ([[User talk:Immblueversion|talk]]) 16:46, 16 March 2019 (UTC)


This info should be integrated with the main BBS video page.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:48, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
== KH3 novel ==
:It should also be written ''competently'' before being reinserted into article space.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:49, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
Why don't you just add/delete the video article? You don't need to remove the whole thing. Cococrash11
::Because it's not canon, and we have no idea where it fits into the character's history. It shouldn't be on this page at all.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 10:05, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
{{Maggosh|text=Then by all means, remove articles with the ASAS and Deep Dive summary too, since they contain material not represented in the games either.}}


What the heck are you talking about? Vanitas's orgin and first apearnce is Birth By Sleep video just like Master Xehanort. WHy don't you include video in the article? Master Xehnort, Terra,Ventus, and Aqua had one to. Cococrash11
New info from the KH3 novel (https://blowingoffsteam2.tumblr.com/post/186619968004). --[[Special:Contributions/84.203.5.141|84.203.5.141]] 21:35, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
::The Story section is supposed to be a chronological summary of that character's plot. Consider - including the video synopsis 1) claims that it is canon, which it is not, and 2) claims that they did the video before they did their actual story. For example, the way Deep Dive was placed for Riku, it claimed he fought Roxas before going to Castle Oblivion, which is wrong.


At most, there should be a mention that "X appeared in secret video Y" in the lead or something. However, those videos ARE NOT CANON, and should only be summarized on their own article.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 23:54, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
:I just read the post, was that really from the legit novel, because of so then we REALLY REALLY know stuffs gonna go down in the next one. [[User:ZBroadcast|ZBroadcast]] ([[User talk:ZBroadcast|talk]]) 10:37 8 December, 2019 (UTC)


Wait a second you're saying the the video isn't canon but you don't want to include in it? What the heck look at [[Terra]],[[Ventus]],[[Aqua]], [[Master Xehanort]], and [[Mickey Mouse]] they both had the Birth By Sleep video and The Gathering video and they didn't erase it like in Vanitas. In this page why can't Vanitas had both? Vanitas isn't included The Gathering is one thing and he dosen't appear in it I understand but his fisrt appearance is in the Birth By Sleep video. So why isn't Birth By Sleep video article mention in Vanitas? If the video article for Vanitas is too big just make it small enough to not watse space, or just include everything in BBS video about Vanitas in the Vanitas page. I thought you guys want to improve articles in this wikia not erase the truth? Beside you're saying that the Riku in Deep Dive is before he went to Catsle Oblivion who told you that? This happen after KHCOM and 358/2 Days not between KHI and KHCOM. cococrash11
== Graveyard Keyblades ==
::Please don't be an idiot.
#The placement of the Deep Dive video in Riku's article would be between KH and KHCom, which is incorrect.
#It's specifically not truth, it's un-fucking-canon.


If you're unwilling to listen at all to what the other person is saying, then just shut up, please.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 13:23, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
The ''KHIII ReMind'' fight with Vanitas gives the name for the Keyblade Graveyard Keyblades as '''Vanitas' Keyblades''', should they get a page or at least be mentioned in his Weapon section? --[[Special:Contributions/84.203.0.65|84.203.0.65]] 15:34, 22 February 2020 (UTC)


== What should we add ==
== Brothers ==


Should we add that Vanitas and Ven are going to fight each other? I mean in the new trailer they first start talking in [[The Gathering]] and then they both whip out their keyblades and get in their battle stances.--[[User:Xsonicdragon|Xsonicdragon]] 01:39, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
So Vanitas at different points in KH3 calls Sora and Ven his brothers. What are your guys take on it. Should we consider Sora, Ven, and Vanitas as 3 brothers? I know they aren't brothers in the conventional sense, but in this wiki should we refer to them more as "brothers"? Vanitas conveyed decent logic towards the 3 of them being brothers. {{unsigned|Keybladefan0204}}
:They're not brothers, so no. We can mention that Vanitas calls them his brothers, but that's about it. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)


== Xehanort ==
== New info about Vanitas from the Official Character Book==
So I found this new detail, turns out Vanitas' Keyblade doesn't have an actual official name (Despite the Vanitas Remnant giving the Void Gear Keyblade upon defeat), but it does note on the gear motif and blue eye of the design. Should we update any info on Vanitas then?
Link is right here: https://twitter.com/petalscythe/status/1233097044224610315


{{TFO|time=20:46, September 13, 2009 (UTC)|Aerith= It has been my personal opinion that Vanitas is the Xehanort we know for a while. I have had this theory for sometime, before I even joined the wiki. I was pleased to read some other people had the same idea. When I first started reading up on the game I was suprised how little information was released about the apprentice, I almost thought it was suspicious. Any way here is where I posted my theory if any one is interested: http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/User:Terra_Fae_Odosson#The_Ansem_Theory
[[User:YeetusVanitas2010|YeetusVanitas2010]] ([[User talk:YeetusVanitas2010|talk]]) 17:47, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Of course I wrote this before I heard the Terra theory. Most the information I gathered would support that idea too. sigh. I know some people were annoyed with all the speculation listed. Nomura did state that he left areas open for fans to use their imagination and also so they wouldn't get bored with the series. I think he would enjoy the fact fans speculate and get this excited. I know I loved dreaming there was a great connection between Reno and Axel but now we know who Axel's original self was. Vantis could also be an unversed. I just don't know enough about them really to make a good prediction involving them. I had better ideas when we all thought it was unbirths. I had fun playing around with that.}}
:These stories are third-tier canon. Not to mention, Void Gear was confirmed to be its name in one of the Ultimanias. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 03:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
{{TNE|time=05:16, October 30, 2009 (UTC)|shocktext=I wonder what "friendship" ties he had with Aqua and Ven though, if it's really Vanitas...}}
We have this discussion on and off since 2010. In an interview for BBS Nomura confirmed, that you get Vanitas's Keyblade from Vanitas Remnant, which makes it synonymous with the Void Gear. Still the [https://i.imgur.com/aLL1Etgg.jpg Memorial Ultimania] and now the Character Book only name it "Vanitas's Keyblade", which is why this name appears also on the Void Gear page since we don't have a separate article for the colored variant. It's more a formality I think, they simply make a distinction between a Keychain's name and the Keyblade's actual name like with [http://images.khinsider.com/2014%20Uploads/10/Memorial%20Ultimania/bbs_03.png "Master Eraqus' Keyblade (Master Keeper)"] and [http://images.khinsider.com/2014%20Uploads/10/Memorial%20Ultimania/kh2_05.png "Kairi's Keyblade (Destiny Place)"] --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 09:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 18:35, 4 September 2021

Archive
Archives

Nomura Interview[edit]

I finished adding proper citations to Vanitas's page, but I'm having trouble tracking one of the interviews down. In Vanitas's Trivia section, there is a line that states: "Nomura also stated in another interview that Vanitas's identity was familiar and perhaps also shocking."

However, I spent days combing through the KHInsider's archives for the interviews and I've tried Google-ing, but I can't seen to find the interview where Nomura-sensei said that Vanita's face is supposed to "shock" fans, which is stated as part of the interview. I tried going back to the Keyhole where that trivia was first inserted into the page, but I got nothing. When I tried typing keywords in the search engine, I couldn't find anything. Does anyone remember which interview Nomura-sensei said that? Was it in a video interview or at a con where one of the trailers were shown? I took the sentence out of the trivia section, because unless it's sourced, it doesn't really belong there. Besides, I don't think it fitted well since it had more to do Vanitas's voice.--NinjaSheik 23:10, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Monstropolis pre-3D[edit]

"he says his heart needed to be reconstructed using negative emotions, meaning he was collected at some point after his battle with Ventus (as that was when his heart was shattered). His journal entry also refers to him as being from after BBS"

  • No, it doesn't. It means that he, currently, is after KHBBS. Nothing more.
  • His journal entry absolutely does not say that. It says:
A member of the real Organization XIII.
This is the pure darkness that Master Xehanort extracted from Ventus's heart. He was pitted against Ventus in order to forge the X-blade, but Ventus prevailed and Vanitas ceased to exist.
Now that he is back, he continues to seek his "brother," Ventus.

This is exactly parallel to all of the other Org profiles talking about how Sora or Riku killed them. Xemnas's profile talks about they "put an end to his plans and Xemnas himself." Ansem's talks about him being destroyed. They both also say how, despite their destruction, they've returned.

There is nothing in the journal that indicates that Vanitas came back into existence on his own, instead of being snatched before his death in BBS, just like the other org members were."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 21:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

His heart was shattered at the end of BBS, why would it need to be reconstructed in Monstropolis if he was snatched from before it being shattered? The journal saying "now that he is back, he continues to seek his "brother," Ventus" is different from the others ("despite this Ansem/Xemnas has returned") as his refers to him as being back from his defeat and continuing with his prior task. --Vanitas (talk) 21:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Because it was already damaged by the climax of KHBBS. In addition, with the events following. Vanitas was originally unstable until Sora's heart connected with Ventus's -- if that link has been tampered with (CoM, etc.), even if the heart is taken to the future, you'd expect there to be instability again.
referring to him being back from his defeat is the same language used for Ansem and Xemnas.
It refers to him continuing his task, because its his own task apart from the organization's plans. He's one of the few Organization members doing his own thing.
The Ultimania specifically says this is Vanitas "from the past", and the events with Randall are implied to have just happened, based on the fact that Sully, who works at Monsters Inc. every day, was not aware anything was amiss at first.
There is no mechanism provided anywhere in the series for him to have just "come back", and if he had, what would be the point of snatching him from the past? He'd already be there. Snatching from the past was only supposed to be a mechanism for retrieving those who were irretrievably destroyed."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 22:11, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Also, I have no idea where all this is from:
"Vanitas's fractured heart met the monster Randall, who told him about Monstropolis and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy. Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter, Vanitas manipulates Randall using his desire for revenge"
If it was explicitly mentioned in the scenes, fine, but I don't recall anything indicating that Vanitas found Randall in Louisiana and had this conversation with him."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 22:16, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Wasn't his heart only fragmented after his final fight with Ventus in BBS? It wouldn't need to be reconstructed otherwise. Vanitas implies to Mike that the Unversed and Randall have been working behind the scenes, making canisters of scream energy under their noses. He also did say that he found Randall. He could have been picked up from the past because they could not obtain him in the present, like Xion. --Vanitas (talk) 22:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Xion was taken from the past so that they'd have an obedient version -- and even with being taken from her puppet days, she still had links of friendship to Sora and Lea.
His heart was damaged from the very moment of his creation. That's why the Unversed existed to begin with."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 23:04, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

They also collected every member of the org via time travel in DDD even though most existed in the present. Anyhow, maybe it would be best to just put the info back in the KHIII section and not mention what point in the past he was collected from. --Vanitas (talk) 23:09, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

No, they didn't. The KH3D and KH3 Ultimania explicitly say they didn't. The ones that existed in the present just showed up on their own.
The KH3 Ultimania explicitly says that the replica contains the heart of "Vanitas from the past". That only makes sense as being a reference to BBS.
Also, I need to rephrase what I said about Xion -- they picked a certain point in time to pluck her from because that was when she was most pliant, but the reason they needed to use time travel in the first place is that she had already reunited with Sora."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 23:18, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Well it does not say exactly where in the past he comes from, so we don't need to explicitly say (like how we're not mentioning it with Repliku). Even going by him not existing post-BBS, he could be from pre-BBS. --Vanitas (talk) 23:23, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

We know when Repliku is taken from. It's from before Namine undid the brainwashing on him. If it's not in the article, it should be.::"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:12, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Is it not that Dark Riku is from the time when Ansem possessed Riku, rather than being Riku Replica's Heart? From what I understood that was how it worked and the Replica comment was just concerning the vessel within which Dark Riku's Hearts was within. I also agree with what has been said regarding Vanitas' own Heart. Ultimania states that he's from the past, and i think that the work the Unversed did to collect negative emotions was just to fill out Vanitas' Heart and allow him to be a complete being on his own - since he'd still otherwise lack half a Heart, just like Ventus. But at the same time - he still sought to join his Heart with Ventus's, which would suggest that he is simply restored from post KHBBS. I think it's more of a slip up somewhere on Nomura's part to be honest (Levi657 (talk) 18:28, 5 March 2019 (UTC))
No. Both the final death of Dark Riku, and the Ultimania, state that Dark Riku is the Riku Replica from the period of time in which it thought it was Ansem-possessed Riku."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 20:01, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Good explanation of scene."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:01, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

So his fractured heart was picked up after his final battle with Ven by Youngnort, but his fixing of his heart happened after he got a replica body rather than in-between games. That works too. --Vanitas (talk) 18:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)


Okay, so KH3D might actually inform some of this:

— Why did Xehanort and co. word things as if to try and wake Ventus who is inside Sora?
Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. When you see Vanitas (the dark half of Ventus who appeared in KHBBS) overlay Young Xehanort for a moment, that represents Ventus’ heart reacting inside Sora.
— What about Vanitas?
Nomura: Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form. He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.

So, especially with the clarification from the Ultimania that Demyx and Vexen were benched during KH3D, I think we can clarify a bit here. Vanitas talks about how his heart is just made of negativity, that the screams and sadness were enough to reconstruct it, that it is still incomplete, and he emphasizes that he's never met Sora in the flesh. So, his weakened heart was brought back from the past, and maybe wasn't strong enough to attach to a replica yet (this is why Vanitas doesn't have a physical form in KH3D). Mike and Sulley are just finishing their playdate with Boo when the Unversed are found, indicating they've just been there for a day (at least, in terms of Monstropolis). So, the implication seems to be (and I don't think is is quite explicit enough to put on the wiki itself, yet), that Vanitas's weak heart was dropped off at Monstropolis, used the Unversed to soak up the remaining surplus of scream energy as well as acquire new screams, and then was strong enough for a Replica. As far as I can tell, we don't even see him physically interacting with anything at Monstropolis until after the Lump of Horror is defeated."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:28, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

To back this up, Vexen says at The Caribbean that not even his finest replica could continue existing without a heart."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:59, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Randall[edit]

  • Vanitas encountered the monster Randall, who told him about Monstropolis and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy.
    • What is the source that Randall specifically informed Vanitas of how screams were used for energy, instead of just negativity being harvested?
  • Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter,
    • That's not why Randall was banished in the movie. What is the source for this being the cause in the game?
  • Vanitas encourages Randall's belief that scream power was more reliable,
    • Source? Randall's driving force in the movies was just that scream power made him more important, since it was what he was best at. Randall wants to be the star.
  • stating that if a child's heart was broken over something truly precious to to them, they would be a limitless source of negative emotions.
    • this sounds like script regurgitation.
  • Vanitas repairs the doorway Randall had been banished through using a dark corridor.

Should probably be rewritten (I just put back what was there before). The only part I think is accurate is that Vanitas finds Randall and helps him get back by fixing the door. --Vanitas (talk) 17:38, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

I rewatched the scenes, and I think this is a good summary (needs to be rewritten for Vanitas PoV):

Fortunately for him, Vanitas found him and decided to exploit his ambition and desire for revenge. Vanitas fixed Randall's door, allowing him to return to Monsters, Inc. and attempt to reclaim his prior prestige. However, believing that laugh power is unsustainable, he still insisted on exploiting negative emotional energy, and allied with Vanitas's Unversed to acquire it. With their help, he infiltrated the factory and weaponized its machinery.

"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 19:35, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Update "Design" image[edit]

I was wondering whether we should keep the current picture or replace it with one from KH3, when Ven sees Sora for the first time and imagines Vanitas's unmasked face, as seen at the very start of this video (it's pretty LQ, but convenient). Immblueversion (talk) 16:46, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

KH3 novel[edit]

New info from the KH3 novel (https://blowingoffsteam2.tumblr.com/post/186619968004). --84.203.5.141 21:35, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

I just read the post, was that really from the legit novel, because of so then we REALLY REALLY know stuffs gonna go down in the next one. ZBroadcast (talk) 10:37 8 December, 2019 (UTC)

Graveyard Keyblades[edit]

The KHIII ReMind fight with Vanitas gives the name for the Keyblade Graveyard Keyblades as Vanitas' Keyblades, should they get a page or at least be mentioned in his Weapon section? --84.203.0.65 15:34, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Brothers[edit]

So Vanitas at different points in KH3 calls Sora and Ven his brothers. What are your guys take on it. Should we consider Sora, Ven, and Vanitas as 3 brothers? I know they aren't brothers in the conventional sense, but in this wiki should we refer to them more as "brothers"? Vanitas conveyed decent logic towards the 3 of them being brothers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keybladefan0204 (talk • contribs)

They're not brothers, so no. We can mention that Vanitas calls them his brothers, but that's about it. TheSilentHero 17:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

New info about Vanitas from the Official Character Book[edit]

So I found this new detail, turns out Vanitas' Keyblade doesn't have an actual official name (Despite the Vanitas Remnant giving the Void Gear Keyblade upon defeat), but it does note on the gear motif and blue eye of the design. Should we update any info on Vanitas then? Link is right here: https://twitter.com/petalscythe/status/1233097044224610315

YeetusVanitas2010 (talk) 17:47, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

These stories are third-tier canon. Not to mention, Void Gear was confirmed to be its name in one of the Ultimanias. --Samoa Joe (talk) 03:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

We have this discussion on and off since 2010. In an interview for BBS Nomura confirmed, that you get Vanitas's Keyblade from Vanitas Remnant, which makes it synonymous with the Void Gear. Still the Memorial Ultimania and now the Character Book only name it "Vanitas's Keyblade", which is why this name appears also on the Void Gear page since we don't have a separate article for the colored variant. It's more a formality I think, they simply make a distinction between a Keychain's name and the Keyblade's actual name like with "Master Eraqus' Keyblade (Master Keeper)" and "Kairi's Keyblade (Destiny Place)" --ShardofTruth 09:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

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