Talk:Symbols in the Kingdom Hearts series: Difference between revisions

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→‎Regarding Terra's Mark as of KH3, and Xion's symbol

ChielArael

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 :Possibly, but has that been stated for certain yet?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:33, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 ::No, it's only a thoery. The fact I said that it "hit me" kind of implies that. I don't expect or even want my thoery on the page yet until it's confirmed though. I just wanted to put it out there before anyone else figured it out first. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 17:26, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
+I..am a genius. Not that that's anything new. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 03:29, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
+:Yeah, good prediction!{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:37, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
+::Now, how about a prediction for a KH3 release date, eh? {{User:Xion4ever/Sig}} 03:24, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
+:::Late 2017. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 04:44, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
+== Why are we still calling the Master's eye the "Gazing Eye"? ==
+I mean...he made it pretty clear that his eye (or keyblade for that matter) doesn't actually have a name.  The term was something just made up on the spot by Luxu and immediately dismissed by the Master.  So....wouldn't it better to just call it the Master's Eye or something?  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 00:36, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
+:I didn't interpret that line as talking about the eye, especially since the way Luxu phrased it pretty strongly implied that the MoM had just said the words "Gazing Eye". Regardless, whether it is the ritualistically "true" heart-name for the concept in-universe, it is still a name the canon uses for the concept, and thus weighted in privilege to anything we come up with ourselves. "Master's Eye" itself would imply that ''that'' name is canon, which would be erring in the wrong direction. "Master's eye", maybe, but then we're talking about the eye itself and not the symbol I would think. But I can go with "'Master's eye' icon", sure. It's an accurate if non-canon descriptor, like "entelechy".
+::I would ''love'' for Nomura to come up with official terms for those concepts, though -- the unnamed Keyblades, the symbols, if there's a name for a complete being, etc.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:09, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
+:::They call it Gazing Eye in Back Cover. There's even a scene called "The Gazing Eye" where they talk about the MoM's ability to look in the future with the eye (it's not the Keyblade scene). {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 08:23, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
+::::But that's a ''chapter name'' though.  Not the official name for the thing.  I mean...the Master outright says "That's not what it's called..."  If that isn't a fucking confirmation, then I don't know what is.  This really needs to be changed.  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 15:27, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
+:::::That is indeed a "fucking confirmation" that the Keyblade, because they're talking about the Keyblade in that scene, isn't called Gazing Eye. However, in another scene, called "The Gazing Eye", they mention that the Master has "an eye that gazes into the future". While not totally confirming that is called the Gazing Eye, it is quite obvious, considering the scene's title. Maybe you should actually watch Back Cover before coming here saying something isn't right. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:21, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
+:::::Then you don't know what a confirmation is. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 04:26, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
+::::::Maybe we should agree on a zero profanity rule. {{User:Byzantinefire/Sig}} 17:44, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
+:::::::''Shut up.''{{unsigned|Ignis}}
+:::::::You already have my vote. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 04:26, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
+:::::To clarify: the Master explicitly states "Gazing Eye" is not the name of the No Name. However, the scene clearly portrays the Master as having immediately beforehand saying the words "Gazing Eye" -- Luxu did not make them up himself. Given the context, the term "Gazing Eye" which the script presents as having been a term used by the Master almost certainly applies to his actual eye. If nothing else, it's a usable identifier for the item, just like "Terra's Mark" or "Young Xehanort's Keyblade".{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:39, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
+::::::I dunno...that's a speculative stretch though based on the ''assumption'' of information we were never given.  Luxu called it then, but then jumped up in shock and shouted "EW!" when he found it was his dismembered eye!  If he knew what it was to begin with, he wouldn't have had that reaction.  And besides lol, weren't you in agreement over this a while back?  If you and the others agree that you want to keep it as is, that's your prerogative.  I just strongly disagree and feel it's correct that it be changed.  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 21:43, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
+:::::::Luxu could have thought that it was a jewel made to look like an eye, which is what '''we all''' thought before Back Cover. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 04:26, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
+:::::::To clarify again: Luxu plainly ''didn't'' know the MoM was talking about the eye -- he thought the MoM was talking about the Keyblade.
+::::::::Here's what we're shown:
+*MoM talks about "Gazing Eye"
+*Luxu thinks he means the Keyblade
+*MoM clarifies that the Keyblade has no name
+*Luxu names the Keyblade
+*MoM further clarifies the Keyblade contains his own eye
+::::::::This order of events indicates that the MoM was indeed waxing poetic about his own eye, and Luxu just got confused, then was corrected.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:55, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
+== Merging ==
+Would there be any complaints about merging Roxas's zipper pull into the Nobody section, or perhaps creating a subheading for it? The Nobody variant symbol and the zipper pull are essentially the same, and as Roxas is a Nobody, there is certainly connection there. I saw that there was discussion about it before but it doesn't seem like anything came of it.
+Also, should the fleur-de-lis in the world symbols section be moved up to the larger fleur-de-lis section? [[User:Sirlionel13|Sirlionel13]] ([[User talk:Sirlionel13|talk]]) 18:37, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
+== Regarding Terra's Mark as of KH3, and Xion's symbol ==
+Per the notice on the page, I looked into the gummi stickers in KH3, and it seems that the symbol this page calls "Terra's Mark" is instead titled "Eraqus" in KH3. But, this page also says that the name "Terra's Mark" is used in official materials. This means we now have conflicting information from official sources - what do we call this symbol now? Calling it something like "Eraqus' Mark" seems more appropriate to how the symbol is used, in my opinion.
+On another note regarding KH3, Xion appears to have a symbol now - a 3-pronged mask/crown, which can be seen on the top of her light pillars during her KH3 data battle. This symbol is also visible on the face of her final form in Days. Does anyone have a clean image of this symbol? And, what should we call it? --[[User:Boblers|Boblers]] ([[User talk:Boblers|talk]]) 09:06, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
+:The original source of it being called テラたちのマーク (Terra and Friends' Mark) is the BBS Ultimania. They compare it to the Nobody symbol to show the similarities, so it could be seen as more of a description than a name, like "the mark Terra and his friends use". Also, since KH3 calls it "Eraqus", and is more recent, we should call it that, but we should probably mention "Terra's Mark" as well (though I'm not sure it's actually called that in English?). {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 13:38, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
+::If I remember correctly, the only Ultimania that's in English is the Memorial Ultimania, so BBS Ultimania is still only in Japanese. I don't know what's in Memorial, but unless the mark is mentioned in there, "Terra's Mark" would not have an English name I think? --[[User:Boblers|Boblers]] ([[User talk:Boblers|talk]]) 22:36, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
+:This is irrelevant for now but since it goes back to the beginnings of keyblade society, neither is probably its "proper name"; they may give it a real one in Missing Link or something. [[User:ChielArael|ChielArael]] ([[User talk:ChielArael|talk]]) 08:05, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
+== Nobody emblem contradiction ==
+So, it's been established that the Nobody emblem is based on Terra's Mark / Eraqus as remembered by Xemnas, since Terra had strong memories of the symbol. But it appears on [[:File:Keyblade Armor (Xehanort) KHDR.png|Xehanort's Keyblade Armor]] that he wore over 60 years prior. I think this is a minor oversight, rather than intentional lore: the most likely explanation is that they included the emblem on Xemnas's armored form because he's a Nobody, but when it came time to make Xehanort's armor for ''Dark Road'', they used the same design as that armor (and No Heart) without considering the implications of the symbol. Still, an interesting little contradiction. —[[User:Aid1043|Aid1043]] ([[User talk:Aid1043|talk]]) 04:04, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
+:I don't think it's Dark Road's oversight, considering that No Heart (as well as Eraqus' armor) were included in the Final Mix of the very same game that Nomura made this claim in the Ultimania of. Considering that they don't use armor in the present day and that both armor designs were used in Dark Road, I suspect they were always supposed to represent Xehanort and Eraqus when they were younger. It's a case of Nomura proving his own statements wrong almost immediately. It wouldn't be the first time; Nomura also said nobodies don't age, despite Namine clearly aging from CoM to II (others were shown to age later). Personally I think we can infer it must predate Xemnas, but who knows if they'll ever talk about it or not. [[User:ChielArael|ChielArael]] ([[User talk:ChielArael|talk]]) 08:03, 3 November 2022 (UTC)