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Forum:Wiki Improvement: Difference between revisions
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{{Forumheader|The World that Never was}} | {{Forumheader|The Realm of Sleep|The World that Never was}} | ||
<!-- Please put your content under this line. Be sure to sign your edits with either your talk page template or four tildes ~~~~ --> | <!-- Please put your content under this line. Be sure to sign your edits with either your talk page template or four tildes ~~~~ --> | ||
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*The Universe (Main Characters, Organization XIII, Worlds) | *The Universe (Main Characters, Organization XIII, Worlds) | ||
*Gameplay (Items, Magic, Limits, Drives, Summons, Gummi Ship, Cards, Weapons) | *Gameplay (Items, Magic, Limits, Drives, Summons, Gummi Ship, Cards, Weapons) | ||
*Literature (Novels, | *Literature (Novels, Manga, Strategy Guide) | ||
*Merchandise (Figures, Music, Clothing) | *Merchandise (Figures, Music, Clothing) | ||
*Community (Staff, Users) | *Community (Staff, Users) | ||
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==1. Side-Bar Discussion== | ==1. Side-Bar Discussion== | ||
I think we could add [[ | I think we could add [[KHWiki:Roxas's Diary]] to the Community tab since it's about the wiki and other KH info. We should keep the featured articles somewhere like under "Fun" or "Media". Maybe we should just have a Characters category and add Worlds to gameplay. These are just some of my thoughts. - [[User:HeartOfOblivion|<span style="color:#FF0000">'''Heart''']]<span style="color:#A9A9A9">'''Of'''[[User talk:HeartOfOblivion|<span style="color:#000000">'''Oblivion''']] 03:47, October 6, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:For the side-bar I propose putting the '''Forums''' under ''Community'', they are indeed for fun but most of the discussions are for the wiki's improvement, unlike other wikis where the forums are mainly used for fan and entertainment purposes. Unless there is a way to split "The World that Never Was" under community and "Twilight Town Library" under Fun. Also, for the "Users" part under community, I'm guessing that'll be the community list; some people have expressed their dislike for some people getting their place in the list just for edits in talk pages and blogs. Is there a way to filter the community list so it only takes in consideration main space/files/categories/other useful edits? --{{User:Yer mom/Sig}} 03:49, October 6, 2009 (UTC) | :For the side-bar I propose putting the '''Forums''' under ''Community'', they are indeed for fun but most of the discussions are for the wiki's improvement, unlike other wikis where the forums are mainly used for fan and entertainment purposes. Unless there is a way to split "The World that Never Was" under community and "Twilight Town Library" under Fun. Also, for the "Users" part under community, I'm guessing that'll be the community list; some people have expressed their dislike for some people getting their place in the list just for edits in talk pages and blogs. Is there a way to filter the community list so it only takes in consideration main space/files/categories/other useful edits? --{{User:Yer mom/Sig}} 03:49, October 6, 2009 (UTC) | ||
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@TNE: Perhaps move content between rows and add lots of new boxes of interesting joyous content. See my message in the corresponding section. --[[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:navy ;">'''Door'''</span>]][[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:dimgray ;">'''To'''</span>]][[User talk:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:darkslategray ;">'''Nothing'''</span>]] 23:05, October 6, 2009 (UTC) | @TNE: Perhaps move content between rows and add lots of new boxes of interesting joyous content. See my message in the corresponding section. --[[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:navy ;">'''Door'''</span>]][[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:dimgray ;">'''To'''</span>]][[User talk:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:darkslategray ;">'''Nothing'''</span>]] 23:05, October 6, 2009 (UTC) | ||
I think I'll just put something together now, and we can edit it based on what you guys want. [[User:Guardian Soul|<span style="color:darkslateblue;">'''Guardian'''</span>]] [[User talk:Guardian Soul|<span style="color:black;">'''Soul'''</span>]] 20:25, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | |||
:I think that we should have '''Games''' which leads to Main Games and then the Others, rather than having the two on the top. Also, isn't the music '''Merchandise'''? I thought so... Apart from those two, I think it looks great :D - '''[[User:Xiggie|<font face=Trebuchet MS color=blue>Ice</font>]][[User talk:Xiggie|<font face=Trebuchet MS color=dodgerblue>boy</font>]]''<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Xiggie|<font face=Trebuchet MS color=paleturquoise>Svalur!</font>]]</sup>''''' 07:58, October 8, 2009 (UTC) | |||
{{KrytenKoro| | |||
::Music is within the games, as well, so it's semi-canonical, as opposed to the non-canonical toys and merch. | |||
::I'm kind of loathe to categorize Mobile as something completely separate, as it is part of the canonical series. Then again, it's not part of the canon, so there's that. I agree with Xiggie that the two games containers should be together, though. | |||
::Sleights, Techs, and Reaction Commands should be added to game elements; or weapons goes into items, summons goes into magic, and the three former ones go into abilities (or special abilities). We should probably also have something for "Limits".}} | |||
==2. Main Page Discussion== | ==2. Main Page Discussion== | ||
Okay, so any idea how we're gonna restructure the main page ? '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 03:34, October 6, 2009 (UTC) | Okay, so any idea how we're gonna restructure the main page ? '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 03:34, October 6, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:Well, since we'll be removing the notice and cleanup of the month, why not add some stuff? From what I've been digging up on various talk pages (mainly the one for the main page), a common suggestion is something like the [[ | :Well, since we'll be removing the notice and cleanup of the month, why not add some stuff? From what I've been digging up on various talk pages (mainly the one for the main page), a common suggestion is something like the [[finalfantasy:Final_Fantasy_Wiki:Dragon's Neck Colosseum|Dragon's Neck Colosseum from the Final Fantasy Wiki]] over here. As for a personal suggestion from me, TRIVIA. check out the bottom-right corner of the FFWiki's main page, and templates involved. I think that we should DEFINITELY set that up here. Also, I think that we should revise the links that we have in our Wiki-gaming box; some of them are games that seem like they've never been heard of. Any suggestions for gaming wikis to replace them? --[[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:navy ;">'''Door'''</span>]][[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:dimgray ;">'''To'''</span>]][[User talk:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:darkslategray ;">'''Nothing'''</span>]] 23:14, October 6, 2009 (UTC) | ||
::I like the Trivia idea...we seem rather fond of it around here, in spite of some people's best efforts. ^_^ As a bonus, it might get those bits and pieces off of the article pages. [[User:BebopKate|<span style="color:indigo;">'''Bebop'''</span>]][[User talk:BebopKate|<span style="color:plum;">'''Kate'''</span>]] 01:00, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | ::I like the Trivia idea...we seem rather fond of it around here, in spite of some people's best efforts. ^_^ As a bonus, it might get those bits and pieces off of the article pages. [[User:BebopKate|<span style="color:indigo;">'''Bebop'''</span>]][[User talk:BebopKate|<span style="color:plum;">'''Kate'''</span>]] 01:00, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:Well, '''some only''' (don't you think ?), unless we had a random DID YOU KNOW section where we can take out all the trivia, and put it as how it was done in Template:Random Quote, and yeah. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 01:22, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | :Well, '''some only''' (don't you think ?), unless we had a random DID YOU KNOW section where we can take out all the trivia, and put it as how it was done in Template:Random Quote, and yeah. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 01:22, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | ||
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Having article-based trivia bits would probably draw readers' attention to the article and see why in the first place. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 03:02, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | Having article-based trivia bits would probably draw readers' attention to the article and see why in the first place. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 03:02, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:About the trivia, I think we should keep the important bits in the article, the thing will be to consider which trivia is important and which isn't. There IS a lot of trivia that can easily be put inside the articles but other things like random stuff about voice actors and real life references should be kept in the trivia (I offer myself to do that if no one has objections). The trivia box at the FF wiki (from what I've seen at least) includes fun facts about iconic elements, main protagonists or the games themselves, we should try to keep it that way and exclude obscure trivia like "Sora's keyblade turns into the Kingdom Key while in the 1000 Heartless battle". I don't know how well we can pull that since FF is a series with a TON of games while KH is still growing but I guess we can handle it ^^. --{{User:Yer mom/Sig}} 03:43, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | |||
::Okay, if we're gonna start the template, meet me at the Mensa (click on Bravo !). I'll try develop the coding, while we all see which trivia bits to pick. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 04:02, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | |||
:::Any "trivia" which is actually design or plot information should be in the body of the article, no matter what. After that, any "accidental" trivia, like "Roxas poses like Goku in one scene", should be removed. Baiscally, the trivia section, if we keep it, should cover notable oddities and uniqueness, as well as purposeful references.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 01:47, October 8, 2009 (UTC) | |||
:That's pretty obvious, isn't it ? See [[:Template:Didyouknow]] - we're trying to develop something for the front page, similar to what FFW has. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 03:18, October 8, 2009 (UTC) | |||
::I LOVE that template :D I think it should be added to the home page '''immediately''' :P - '''[[User:Xiggie|<font face=Trebuchet MS color=blue>Ice</font>]][[User talk:Xiggie|<font face=Trebuchet MS color=dodgerblue>boy</font>]]''<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Xiggie|<font face=Trebuchet MS color=paleturquoise>Svalur!</font>]]</sup>''''' 08:03, October 8, 2009 (UTC) | |||
:Meanwhile, if we allocate space for that template, what else should go on the Main Page ? '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 13:35, October 8, 2009 (UTC) | |||
::I've heard a lot of complaints about Dragon's Neck-type things across wikia, and I think it would only exacerbate our problem with non-productive edits.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:52, October 8, 2009 (UTC) | |||
:If you ask me, I'd personally say forget the Dragon's Neck. The whole point of drawing people here is to make constructive edits, not otherwise. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 02:01, October 9, 2009 (UTC) | |||
==3. Page Protection Discussion== | ==3. Page Protection Discussion== | ||
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::This wiki (or any wiki, really) is for anyone who wants to contribute, be they second-grader or Shakespeare. [[User:BebopKate|<span style="color:indigo;">'''Bebop'''</span>]][[User talk:BebopKate|<span style="color:plum;">'''Kate'''</span>]] 01:12, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | ::This wiki (or any wiki, really) is for anyone who wants to contribute, be they second-grader or Shakespeare. [[User:BebopKate|<span style="color:indigo;">'''Bebop'''</span>]][[User talk:BebopKate|<span style="color:plum;">'''Kate'''</span>]] 01:12, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:::All we're doing is preventing unregistered users from working on our most important articles. If we're going to have links to them on the main page/sidebar, they should constantly be in good condition. If working on those articles is that important, all they have to do is sign up. [[User:Guardian Soul|<span style="color:darkslateblue;">'''Guardian'''</span>]] [[User talk:Guardian Soul|<span style="color:black;">'''Soul'''</span>]] 01:23, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | :::All we're doing is preventing unregistered users from working on our most important articles. If we're going to have links to them on the main page/sidebar, they should constantly be in good condition. If working on those articles is that important, all they have to do is sign up. [[User:Guardian Soul|<span style="color:darkslateblue;">'''Guardian'''</span>]] [[User talk:Guardian Soul|<span style="color:black;">'''Soul'''</span>]] 01:23, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | ||
::::A user has all the right to remain as an anonymous editor or one with a username. Regardless, all pages are important, and one page is not more important than the other. If it's not too much for all of you, the protection switch will be off two months after the release date. Yes, I'm being sympathetic to anons, because I was anon myself. What do you think? '''<font face="Trebuchet MS"><span style="background:#3300CC">[[User:Bluerfn|<span style="color:white"><sup>BLUER</sup></span>]]</span>[[User talk:Bluerfn|<span style="color:#CC0011">一番</span>]]</font>''' 02:20, October 8, 2009 (UTC) | |||
:I'm going with Bluer's suggestion. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 03:19, October 8, 2009 (UTC) | |||
::Agreed. --[[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:navy ;">'''Door'''</span>]][[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:dimgray ;">'''To'''</span>]][[User talk:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:darkslategray ;">'''Nothing'''</span>]] 03:20, October 8, 2009 (UTC) | |||
:::I would suggest, as a side-measure, having a backup of the page in most recent good condition accessible under it's subspace - so, [[Sora/Backup]]. This would be updated every week or so with that week's useful edits, and that way it would be easier to root out insidious vandalism. This would be a good deal of time to keep track of, but it would prevent us from needing to exclude potential editors.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:52, October 8, 2009 (UTC) | |||
::::Isn't the Page History a "Backup" in its own right? If anything, the community can decide which version was the ideal revision, and should anything happens - vandalism, edit wars and whatnot - just rollback to that ideal version, yeah ^^ '''<font face="Trebuchet MS"><span style="background:#3300CC">[[User:Bluerfn|<span style="color:white"><sup>BLUER</sup></span>]]</span>[[User talk:Bluerfn|<span style="color:#CC0011">一番</span>]]</font>''' 03:06, October 9, 2009 (UTC) | |||
==4. Other Discussion== | ==4. Other Discussion== | ||
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::I think breaking it down between staff is a good idea; that's a lot of work for one person. I think, however, each section should be looked over by other editors to make sure nothing is left out, confusing wording is removed, and so on. Beta readers are your friend. [[User:BebopKate|<span style="color:indigo;">'''Bebop'''</span>]][[User talk:BebopKate|<span style="color:plum;">'''Kate'''</span>]] 01:02, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | ::I think breaking it down between staff is a good idea; that's a lot of work for one person. I think, however, each section should be looked over by other editors to make sure nothing is left out, confusing wording is removed, and so on. Beta readers are your friend. [[User:BebopKate|<span style="color:indigo;">'''Bebop'''</span>]][[User talk:BebopKate|<span style="color:plum;">'''Kate'''</span>]] 01:02, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:Okay, let's talk about the MoS first. See [[ | :Okay, let's talk about the MoS first. See [[KHWiki talk:Manual of Style]] - I'll be there to note any ideas for the revamp. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 01:24, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:::I kinda don't agree in that "by the staff" thing, don't take me wrong but lately you guys have been doing this "let the staff handle it" thing more and more, which really leaves normal users with pretty much minor stuff or nothing to do. I know you guys try to do what's best for the wiki but the whole purpose of a place that "anyone can edit" is killed when someone jumps in and says 'Let the staff handle it.' That was kinda off topic but it's also a reminder that there are pretty decent editors that are not staff, take Xiggie for an example, that can do as much as any staff member so please, cut the 'leave it to the staff' thing because in all honesty is getting annoying. --{{User:Yer mom/Sig}} 03:20, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | |||
::You know, sometimes I honestly can't remember who is staff and who is not without looking since we have so many regular editors who do a great job. You're right...it should be staff and our most reliable editors. My apologies if I offended anyone. [[User:BebopKate|<span style="color:indigo;">'''Bebop'''</span>]][[User talk:BebopKate|<span style="color:plum;">'''Kate'''</span>]] 02:06, October 8, 2009 (UTC) | |||
Ahem, lemme correct that : '''staff and frequent users'''. Because I was once in that place before. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 03:24, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | |||
:You're very right! *highfives Troisnyxetienne* --{{User:Yer mom/Sig}} 03:31, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | |||
Well, what can I say ? The need to look out for my underlings just comes. ^_^ '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 03:32, October 7, 2009 (UTC) | |||
:::Hahaha. Which infobox needs fixing? | |||
:::We could use horizontal limits on the notice so that it doesn't get in the icon's space, but that's pretty much how the icons act on all the wiki's I've seen them on. | |||
:::A good first start for reference practice would be [[Heartless]]. As the main mythology of the series, but not well understood, it is the perfect testing ground for writing a good, researched article.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:52, October 8, 2009 (UTC) | |||
:Heartless, Bosses, possibly Nobodies, and Puzzles (when finished). But it's best to start with Heartless/Bosses first. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 02:03, October 9, 2009 (UTC) | |||
::I have revoked my previous statement, and since this conversation was recently touched upon again in another Forum post, I would like to say that what I said about the staff-exclusive revision was my bad. I definitely agree that regularly contributive editors are just as important as the staffers. When I speak to someone on the wiki about a matter, I completely ignore my rank, and their rank on the wiki. And that is the way that you should think as well, a rank means nothing when we are all working towards a common goal. The staff isn't meant to be a group of "higher-ups" who you should look up to; the staff is simply a group of editors that have been voted by the community to have more priviledges to better the wiki. The community votes on the staff, so if you disagree with the staff's current actions ''due to their position'', you were the ones who put them into their positions. Now, let there be no further talk of staff-user issues in this forum; this is meant for improving the wiki, and nothing more. | |||
::More importantly, I see that we've let this die; should we try again, or leave this Forum post inactive again? --{{User:DoorToNothing/Sig}} 02:56, December 28, 2009 (UTC) | |||