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Talk:Seifer: Difference between revisions
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:::::I mean...yeah, it's a pretty short scene, it's not really a speech about those concepts. Seifer's tone is derisive, aggressive, and sarcastic. Those are the markers of being insincere. Roxas also clearly didn't interpret it as sincere, as he seems shocked that Seifer had (before the talk) agreed to investigate the Old Mansion with Hayner's gang. | :::::I mean...yeah, it's a pretty short scene, it's not really a speech about those concepts. Seifer's tone is derisive, aggressive, and sarcastic. Those are the markers of being insincere. Roxas also clearly didn't interpret it as sincere, as he seems shocked that Seifer had (before the talk) agreed to investigate the Old Mansion with Hayner's gang. | ||
:::::At least in the English version, it's presented as "man, I hate you. Oh, you think it's destiny? Well I hate destiny too, so suuuuure, let's be friends." It comes off as mocking Roxas's retort more than it does any sort of serious, sincere introspection, and illustrates Seifer's anti-social, aggressive personality, similar to how not everything Braig/Xigbar says is honest/sincere.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:04, 26 June 2018 (UTC) | :::::At least in the English version, it's presented as "man, I hate you. Oh, you think it's destiny? Well I hate destiny too, so suuuuure, let's be friends." It comes off as mocking Roxas's retort more than it does any sort of serious, sincere introspection, and illustrates Seifer's anti-social, aggressive personality, similar to how not everything Braig/Xigbar says is honest/sincere.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:04, 26 June 2018 (UTC) | ||
::::::I guess it's ''possible'' to read it as a precursor to Seifer's grudging respect for Sora later in the game, but again, that respect is ''grudging'' -- more out of a sense of honor and fair play (hallmarks of Seifer Almasy in FF8 as well) rather than having any fondness for Sora as a person. Final Fantasy Opera Omnia also has a subplot with Seifer that illustrates this kind of personality -- he's ''very'' antisocial, but follows a "code" of knighthood.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:12, 26 June 2018 (UTC) | |||
:::::::Except Seifer doesn't actually say "so suuuuure", and I think Seifer just has natural "resting jerk voice" in the way that some people have "resting bitch face". In any case, this debate is getting too long. How about if we added "although he says it in a manner with debatable sincerity"? Seems fair and neutral. [[User:Soroxas|Soroxas]] ([[User talk:Soroxas|talk]]) 15:02, 26 June 2018 (UTC) | |||
::::::::Right, I was paraphrasing. The line immediately before the destiny-back-and-forth was him repeating Roxas's words about the ghost train with a mocking tone. In fact, ''each'' of his lines was like this -- Hayner and gang say something sincere, Seifer reflects it back at them mockingly ("What do you care?" "I don't. Tell me anyway"). It's very out-of-character for this Seifer, and just Seifer Almasy in general, to be mercurial and quickly changing moods as you're suggesting. The original Seifer was basically ''defined'' by committing to a course of action long past the point it was clearly a bad idea. The wiki isn't supposed to be self-referencing, so "debatable" would be improper. As far as "resting jerk voice" -- the game says with the narrator's authority that Seifer simply ''is'' an antisocial, bossy jerk, like in FF8. It's not presented as "he just has a brusque tone". | |||
::::::::More to the point, plot synopses sections shouldn't be script regurgitations. The main point of this scene is (1) Seifer shows up to bully Hayner's gang, and (2) remind them that they have an investigation into the Old Mansion scheduled for the next day. The whole line about "why Roxas ticks him off" is inappropriate focus on a throwaway line that was not the point of that scene. As it is, this article's plot synopsis section is missing almost all of Seifer's actual plot, and giving undue attention to this line.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:21, 26 June 2018 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::Looking at the scene again, it definitely comes over as sarcastic. But is it really important to the story? Can't we just put a sentence in his Personality section about how he doesn't want to cooperate with destiny? It seems to me that scene is more about his personality, rather than actual story purpose. Also, the page currently says he's being hostile towards Roxas, because he thought Roxas was the photo thief, but I don't think that's correct. While we don't see anything from before that day, the characters seemingly have memories of before then, and Seifer and his gang have a rivalry with Hayner's gang (which includes Roxas). So I think it's incorrect to say he's only being hostile because he thinks Roxas is the photo thief. Actually, a lot of the Story section doesn't seem to be written in a story-way. I think it should be more about what Seifer does, like telling everyone Roxas is the photo thief, losing in the Struggle Tournament and telling Roxas that Vivi wasn't himself, fighting the dusks, etc. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:25, 26 June 2018 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::Honesty, I think this is the only thing we ''can'' do which will satisfy everyone at this point (removing the "friend" talk in Story). I'm in favor of this so we can end this already. Also, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the ''only'' reason why there's hostility between them, but it is certainly a reason. [[User:Soroxas|Soroxas]] ([[User talk:Soroxas|talk]]) 18:50, 26 June 2018 (UTC) | |||
==Quote== | |||
"That was undeniable proof that we totally owned you lamers." | |||
— talking to Roxas and company about being the thief. | |||
Can this be his quote? | |||
[[User:Jboddez|Jboddez]] ([[User talk:Jboddez|talk]]) 06:35, 3 February 2020 (UTC) | |||
:The quote on the character's page is supposed to show their personality. So the current quote is better. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 16:04, 3 February 2020 (UTC) | |||