Game talk:Young Xehanort: Difference between revisions

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+*'''Time reversal''': At any random moment when the protagonist deals damage to him, he could potentially stop and reverse time to the precise moment before he is hit. As soon as time is restored, he uses one of his other attacks before the protagonist can react.
+I've never actually seen this. Can someone link to a youtube that depicts it? Is it named in the Ultimania?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 06:03, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
+:There is nothing about it in the Ultmania I'm afraid, since he was added in the Internationl version. I think the time-reverse just happens during the first phase, before he goes batshit insane, you can see it [https://youtu.be/t6X7Kl1md10?t=1m12s here]. It is kind of a rare move, I personally think he uses he uses it only to counter attacks in his near vicinity, meaning no shotlocks and only surges if they stop right by him.  --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 15:31, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
+::Oh, okay. I never once saw him use it in BBSFM HD.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:07, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
+== Critical Mode exclusive attack in KH3D ==
+There is a move where he does a combo and then finishes with an aerial one,  used only in Critical Mode, but I don't find it in the attack list. {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 17:08, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
+:If it's not listed in the ultimania, then I really want to see a video of it before we think of adding it.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:09, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
+::Here : [https://youtu.be/Yq87wWER5Tk?t=9m1s], and as I saw myself he used this move only when I played on Critical Mode. {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 03:44, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
+Almost surely one of either Wild Arcanum, Finish, or Whip Wave. Japanese desc. for each as follows (maybe someone might want to translate, since they all seem to look similar in action):
+*Wild Arcanum: キーブレードでなぎ払ったり突いたりして、なぎ払ったときは三日月形の波動も放つ。これらの攻撃のあとか、空中の相手に近寄ったときには、空中でキーブレードをムチ状にして振りながら波動を放つこともある
+*Finish: ムチ状にしたキーブレードをジャンプして振り下ろすことを２連続で行ない、振り下ろすたびに地を走る波動を放つ
+*Whip Wave: キーブレードをムチ状にして３回振り、振るたびに三日月形の波動を放つ
+Is it possible he's actually using several attacks in extremely quick succession? ''[[User:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#002395 ;">Ultima Spark</span>]]'' '''[[User talk:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#007FFF ;">(talk)</span>]]''' [[File:Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png|17px]] 06:57, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
+:It's certainly not Finish or Whip Wave, but one can suggest that's an advanced version of the Wild Arcanum attack. {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 10:54, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
+*Wild Arcanum: Sweeps and stabs with the Keyblade, releasing crescent-shaped waves when he sweeps. He will occasionally approach the opponent from the air after these attacks, releasing a wave while swinging the Keyblade like a whip in midair.
+*Finish: Jumps and swings the Keyblade downward like a whip two times in succession, releasing a racing wave with each swing.
+*Whip Wave: Swings the Keyblade like a whip three times, releasing a crescent-shaped wave with each swing.
+:Sounds like Wild Arcanum.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:44, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
+::We can also add this midair combo is only used in Critical Mode. {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 15:12, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
+:::...not according to the Ultimania?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:31, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
+::::...but according to my KH3D game experience. This midair combo was totally new for me when I faced YX for the first time on Critical Mode. If you don't believe me, you can confirm this by playing the game yourself. {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 03:30, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
+:::::My file's on Critical Mode too, so no dice. It's really difficult to prove a negative, I agree, but you're gonna have to demonstrate that this move ''cannot'' appear on lower modes. Maybe it's just less frequent, that kind of thing.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:25, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
+::::::I just said the first time I saw this attack, it was the first time I played Critical, so I never saw it when I played on Proud, Standard or Beginner, and I fought him so many times on lower modes that I can tell now it's a Critical Mode-exclusive attack. You can check it by playing the game yourself on lower modes if you still don't believe the words I say, the game itself isn't that long. That's a bit like Char Clawbster who goes directly berserk at the beginning of its battle on Critical. {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 19:31, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
+::::::[https://youtu.be/Yq87wWER5Tk?t=540 Is this the move you're describing]? Does it always happen in Critical Mode? In any case, no, you have the burden of proof -- you're the one who needs to provide youtube videos showing the difference in the technique, or find somewhere in the ultimania that demonstrates that bosses have different moves in critical mode.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:23, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
+:Yes,  that's the video I was talking about, I also asked if it's only on Critical and the answer was yes. It's just he doesn't use this move on lower modes, I've never seen him using this move since I began playing this game and until I battle him on Critical, and I'm not the guy who likes lying in a serious topic like this one. [https://youtu.be/-UbMoS8yopg?t=39s If you really don't believe me and want a proof, here's a battle on Proud Mode, where he never uses it.] {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 22:34, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
+::Yeah, that's fine then.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:00, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
+:::Then, as it is confirmed now, we should put this fact on the page. <br>EDIT: Now that it is confirmed, should I put it in the description ? {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 12:23, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
+::::Go for it.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:55, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 ==Name?==
@@ Line 8: / Line 40: @@
 Oh, for God's sake. Seriously? I mean, you guys haven't heard? I remember reading in an interview that Tetsuya Nourma confirmed that this unknown is Xemnas before he '''became''' Xemnas. It's Xehanort. I do remember reading it, but I don't remember how to find it. Maybe in KHInsider or Kingdom Hearts Ultimania.
-Either way, this just jumping the gun too fast.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 01:29, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
+Either way, this just jumping the gun too fast.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 01:29, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
 :Uhhhh....Are you on crack or something? Normura NEVER said ANYTHING about the identity of this character in ANY sort of interview. --[[User:Breaktheice16|BreaktheIce16]] <small>([[User talk:Breaktheice16|talk]])</small> 21:52, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 315: / Line 347: @@
 In the "Appearance" section, the shape-shifting nature of his weapon should be mentioned; it can change into a double bladed lightsaber, a whip and the hilts can also change into spear or arrowheads to be used during his attacks.
 The strategy section should also discourage the use of Shotlocks and D-Links. Shotlocks leave the player vulnerable and it's almost impossible to get a full lock on count against this boss as he is very fast and is always on the attack. D-linking during the battle will cause him to enter his invisiblity stage right from the get go making this difficult battle much harder. That's what I think should be added to the article and freely give out any other info i have if anyone thinks they need it.[[User:MyNameIsTheMaster|MyNameIsTheMaster]] 02:03, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
+Thunder Surges will always work regardless off any character, provided that you need to perform well-timed dodging and blocks. Do this and you can use the Rhythm Mixer's finisher to finish him off. In this way, you'll save a lot of time.
+[[User:Samcrux|Samcrux]] 11:04, December 18, 2015 (UTC)
 == Real name literally "Unknown" ==
-In [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPQJ7lOq5M0&feature=related this video], approximately 5 minutes and 20 seconds in, there is shown a journal entry for this mysterious figure naming it the "Unknown". Also, it has come to my attention that one has attempted to create an article entitled "[[Unknown (Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep)]]" from scratch. What should be done? --[[User:Immblueversion|Immblueversion]] 00:06, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
+In [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPQJ7lOq5M0&feature=related this video], approximately 5 minutes and 20 seconds in, there is shown a journal entry for this mysterious figure naming it the "Unknown". Also, it has come to my attention that one has attempted to create an article entitled "[[Young Xehanort|Unknown (Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep)]]" from scratch. What should be done? --[[User:Immblueversion|Immblueversion]] 00:06, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 :Oh god dammit I made that name up to stop the edit warring. Why does SE mock me so?[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 00:12, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 ::Well that's a boring name. We just need to move it back to "Unknown (Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep)".{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}02:13, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 508: / Line 543: @@
 [[User:Unknown3619|Unknown3619]] 15:26, 5 January 2012 (UTC) It is possible that the unknown is saix. After all Lea came back to life somehow in Dream Drop Distance.
+Saïx has longer sleeves that Mysterious Figure's, that's the biggest difference I have noticed. Did you also check Marluxia's hooded model ? It's quite the same as Mysterious Figure's. {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 21:14, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
+:His sleeves are exactly the same, he just has longer hands. iZerox posted a wireframe overlay. Please review the evidence that's already been presented before trying to find objections just to support your pet theory.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 02:50, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
+::Yeah, the hands are longer, that's already a difference. Plus, I've shown a comparison between MF and Saïx and you could see with your own eyes the differences, with the sleeves and the shoulders being different. Here you've shown no contradiction against the fact the hooded Marluxia model and the MF one are the same, though they look they are. You've also shown no comparison between both Saïx's, Marluxia's and MF's hooded models. So finally, no, this isn't a "pet theory", since I noticed something people haven't noticed, or, contradicted with their prooves, which you clearly didn't, you just compared with Xemnas's, Xaldin's, and Luxord's, but not with Marluxia's hooded model.<br>
+::Plus, if you want another reason why he would have Marluxia's appearance : this Mysterious Figure has two of his techniques : Doom, and Whirlwind to the Void, and you battle him in what became Castle Oblivion.
+::Ah, and you said iZerox in the title that it '''could''' be Saïx, meaning that's not completely sure and confirmed. {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 03:57, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
+::''"Yeah, the hands are longer, that's already a difference."''
+:::Goalpost moving.
+::''"Plus, I've shown a comparison between MF and Saïx and you could see with your own eyes the differences, with the sleeves and the shoulders being different."''
+:::No you didn't. You made a claim about the sleeves which is actually ''false''.
+::''"Here you've shown no contradiction against the fact the hooded Marluxia model and the MF one are the same, though they look they are."''
+:::Begging the question.
+::''"You've also shown no comparison between both Saïx's, Marluxia's and MF's hooded models."'' / ''"you just compared with Xemnas's, Xaldin's, and Luxord's, but not with Marluxia's hooded model."''
+:::iZerox ''did'' compare the textures. Marluxia uses the "normal" texture.
+::''"Plus, if you want another reason why he would have Marluxia's appearance : this Mysterious Figure has two of his techniques : Doom, and Whirlwind to the Void, and you battle him in what became Castle Oblivion."''
+:::This is irrelevant twaddle. The discussion is not "who, plot-wise, could Unknown be?", since we already know it's Young Xehanort. It's a direct question of how SENA made the model.
+::''"Ah, and you said iZerox in the title that it '''could''' be Saïx, meaning that's not completely sure and confirmed."''
+:::"[http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Only_a_theory It's just a theory! That means anything at all else is more likely to be true!]"
+:::Stop it. Either put in the actual work that iZerox did, the work you're ignoring and claiming is "obvious" when asked to put up or shut up, and, well, put up or shut up.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:50, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
+::::Now, do you think that's polite ? Telling me to shut up like this ? I've seen with my own eyes the differences between Saïx's and Mysterious Figure's models, and there are several of them you could see ! Look at his model when Saïx appears hooded at Twilight Town and compare it to Mysterious Figure's model ! Words can be enough to notice things such obvious as similarities and differences, it's like playing the seven errors : you don't need an actual work to prove that you're right, the eyes's ability can be enough. {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 04:13, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
+:::::''"Now, do you think that's polite ?"''
+::::::That's tone-policing, and the point is that you've ignored several explicit requests to provide evidence and are criticizing the ''basic use of evidence and measurements in determining truth''.
+:::::''"you don't need an actual work to prove that you're right, the eyes's ability can be enough."''
+::::::And the community is looking at the ''actual in-game model'' from the Unknown ''overlayed over'' Saix's, and seeing that they are virtually identical. They are seeing that the skins for the two models ''match'', while Marluxia's is ''different''. Bloody hell, they're not just saying "well, it's probably Saix, he wears a black cloak in'e?", we're looking at ''actual work that has been done to conclusively and objectively demonstrate that the Unknown's model uses data from Saix's.''
+::::::Again: look at the evidence iZerox actually provided, and either demonstrate how iZerox's method is allegedly ''fatally flawed and unusable'', or show how your candidate (Marluxia) has a better result via this method. But stop it with the "Marluxia fits it better because I say Marluxia fits it better".{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:22, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
+:::::::Telling someone to shut up isn't polite, it's rude and mean. Do you think by telling me to shut up that would make me want to agree with you anyways ?
+:::::::Now between those two : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cy_jZNXXUAAXmaj.jpg
+:::::::I can see differences, like the lines around the chest being deeper on MF, the chest itself being more noticeable in MF's and the hood's lines being more visible in Saïx's model and not in MF's. You actually compared MF's model with Saïx's not-hooded model, that can be deceiving, as you didn't use Saïx's hooded one. And of course, I don't have the ways to go deep into the game's data, but that's not necessarily my fault.
+:::::::Also http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad146/iZerox/n_zz010_02out.png http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad146/iZerox/SaixEtc.png
+:::::::If the first one is MF and the second one is Saïx, then no they're not the same, the shades are way different. And don't forget : this is still a theory, so on Saïx's page, make sure to put the fact it's '''probably''' the same. {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 12:38, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
+::''"I can see differences"''
+:::I can't see any differences that can't be accounted for by the two models ''literally being on different hardware''.
+::''"then no they're not the same, the shades are way different."''
+:::That's not the part that matters -- that shade difference is present between MF and Marluxia's as well. The actual ''shapes present'' are what matters. The MF's skin packet has Saix's earring -- a feature that is ''only'' present in Saix's skin packet, and on ''no others'', including Marluxia's.
+::''"I don't have the ways to go deep into the game's data, but that's not necessarily my fault."''
+:::No one's saying that it's "your fault". This isn't a matter of being "fair", or you being "bad" for not being able to do the same work iZerox did. I'm saying that you ''simply have not presented an appropriate rebuttal''. Just because you don't have a rocket ship doesn't mean I have to say "well, scientists have an unfair advantage in tools, therefore Braviaggron is probably right about the Earth being flat because if you squint it looks pretty flat."
+:::As I have stated multiple times -- you simply have not presented the due diligence necessary to rebut iZerox's work. Your points aren't very cogent just from a rhetorical basis -- it's mostly complaining that I'm not being fair to you, or polite to you. And you know what? If you're not able, through skill or opportunity, to perform the necessary due diligence, ''it's an oh well''.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:08, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
+:Okay, okay, fine ! You're all right ! Saïx and Mysterious Figure are the same (though the cutscene don't show any obvious similarities, I mean look at that
+:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzAS0FDWQAE9xqY.jpg
+:you can't say they're the same, look at their chests for example), my thoughts, my brain and my opinions are all flawed ! I hope you're happy about the fact I'm wrong ! {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 15:58, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
+::I mean, I can easily say they're the same because they look virtually identical and you've failed to do any sort of actual rigorous, good faith comparison like iZerox did, but jesus. I keep trying to tell you not to take this personal -- it's simply a matter of empirical fact, not a judgment on you as a person. You're not going to, like, end up homeless because Square decided to use Saix's model instead of Marluxia's.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:44, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
+:::What does have ending up homeless have to do with a flaw brain ? But look at their chests : they're not the same : Saïx's is flat ! {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 19:53, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 == Character Identification ==
@@ Line 568: / Line 646: @@
 ==Mysterious Figure's Voice....kinda of.==
 {{Keyblade0|time=02:10, 8 September 2011 (UTC)|text= Yes. You heard me right. Proof? Well here it is.
-<youtube>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Noj6t9jvTwE</youtube>
+{{#widget:YouTube|id=Noj6t9jvTwE}}
 I wanted more users to listen to this, so I posted this here.}}
@@ Line 650: / Line 728: @@
 == Move? ==
-{{Chitalian8|time=22:52, 22 February 2012 (UTC)|nekutalk= Since this guy's appearing in KH3D, is [[Unknown (Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep)]] still an appropriate name for the article? Should we perhaps just call the page Unknown?}}
+{{Chitalian8|time=22:52, 22 February 2012 (UTC)|nekutalk= Since this guy's appearing in KH3D, is [[Young Xehanort|Unknown (Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep)]] still an appropriate name for the article? Should we perhaps just call the page Unknown?}}
 :I, for one, find it hilarious that his official name is "Unknown". But yeah, most likely we should move it to "Unknown".  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 23:01, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
 {{Asif|shonormal=His name is probably shocking in some way and will be revealed mid-game (a la Vanitas's face). But yeah, I think it should be moved.}}
+{{KrytenKoro|We already have "Unknown" pointing at "Unknown (disambiguation)". Furthermore, the Unknown's name is almost certainly going to be revealed in KH3D. Seeing as KH3D isn't actually out yet, and moving this to Unknown now would be making an unholy mess of the disambiguation for a temporary simplification...I don't think this is a good idea.}}
+{{LightRoxas|tron=Worst case scenario the game doesn't reveal his true name, and we can fix it then.}}
+I guess we just wait until the game comes out in japan and someone plays it and finds the name and quickly change it on the wiki. its only 34 days away. [[User:Unknown3619|Unknown3619]] 14:08, 23 February 2012 (UTC)