Template talk:KH3: Difference between revisions

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::The sources need to talk about actual articles to link to from this navbox, not general design progress notes. The world order thing I think can stay in, because we arrange party members (''but not NPCs'') by world order on other templates.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:17, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
::The sources need to talk about actual articles to link to from this navbox, not general design progress notes. The world order thing I think can stay in, because we arrange party members (''but not NPCs'') by world order on other templates.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:17, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
::::Listen. We have a rule on this wiki that we won't place information from trailers on articles and navboxes, because they are likely to change. It's very likely that a lot of the stuff from the latest trailer will be in the game, but we can't know that for sure until it actually releases. And since we're a wiki, which should be a source of reliable information, we're playing it safe and only include stuff that's confirmed in interviews. That's our policy on this and it's not going to change. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:38, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
::::Listen. We have a rule on this wiki that we won't place information from trailers on articles and navboxes, because they are likely to change. It's very likely that a lot of the stuff from the latest trailer will be in the game, but we can't know that for sure until it actually releases. And since we're a wiki, which should be a source of reliable information, we're playing it safe and only include stuff that's confirmed in interviews. That's our policy on this and it's not going to change. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:38, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
You know, I've noticed over the last several months, and certainly since D23 Japan last month, the community seems to be split on whether or not we allow trailer information on the wiki as actual primary-source information. Id say the most democratic thing to do here is have an honest discussion on the merits of each side and put it up for the wiki community to vote. The fact of the matter is, the community changes, and with it, it's experience, perspective, and opinions on things like this. It stands to reason that, as time goes on and people change, the rules they believe should guide the wiki should change with it. Of course, it should be done reasonably. Not every policy can or should change at the whim of every user. Hence, I'm advocating for a vote. Now, I personally don't agree with the current policy for a couple reasons. First, despite supposed vast knowledge and experience, the wiki has ''always'' covered the details of unreleased game titles. In fact, I'm so confident about this that I'm willing to bet we did this as recently as 0.2, despite the fact I wasn't around then. Additionally, the notion that we're trying not to be inaccurate is also a poor argument, as denying the content of the trailers is causing the wiki to be inaccurate in it's coverage of ''Kingdom Hearts III''. There shouldn't be any problem with having to correct inaccurate information later if we're striving to be accurate with the information we have now. Which leads me to my last point. Regardless of what we do, we cannot preemptively protect the wiki and its articles from errors al the time. That's why we have kids and admins with rollback, delete, and move rights. I cam assure you that even with all the effort you put into making sure mainspace articles on ''Kingdom Hearts III'' are perfectly accurate at launch, they won't be, and you'll find yourself making corrections to a lot of articles anyways. That's the way this, and other wikis, have always been run, knowing that all the information is likely going to change at anytime. How many articles have had to be corrected post-release because new information in interviews or new games have changed drastically our understanding of those topics? Does not Aqua's conversation with Ansem the Wise in Blank Points make less sense after 0.2 reveals she already knew Sora and Riku wield the Keyblade? Did we not all believe, and document on the wiki, that Strelitzia was the fifth union leader, only to find out shortly thereafter that she didn't even make it to the Keyblade War? Did we not think Roxas knew his fate to return to Sora when talking to Axel on the clock tower in ''Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix'', only to find that Roxas doesn't "even know a Sora" during that same conversation in ''358/2 Days''? I'm afraid if the goal is for the wiki to always be right with this series, you'll need to wait until the series is over for that.
You know, I've noticed over the last several months, and certainly since D23 Japan last month, the community seems to be split on whether or not we allow trailer information on the wiki as actual primary-source information. Id say the most democratic thing to do here is have an honest discussion on the merits of each side and put it up for the wiki community to vote. The fact of the matter is, the community changes, and with it, it's experience, perspective, and opinions on things like this. It stands to reason that, as time goes on and people change, the rules they believe should guide the wiki should change with it. Of course, it should be done reasonably. Not every policy can or should change at the whim of every user. Hence, I'm advocating for a vote. Now, I personally don't agree with the current policy for a couple reasons. First, despite supposed vast knowledge and experience, the wiki has ''always'' covered the details of unreleased game titles. In fact, I'm so confident about this that I'm willing to bet we did this as recently as 0.2, despite the fact I wasn't around then. Additionally, the notion that we're trying not to be inaccurate is also a poor argument, as denying the content of the trailers is causing the wiki to be inaccurate in it's coverage of ''Kingdom Hearts III''. There shouldn't be any problem with having to correct inaccurate information later if we're striving to be accurate with the information we have now. Which leads me to my last point. Regardless of what we do, we cannot preemptively protect the wiki and its articles from errors all the time. That's why we have mods and admins with rollback, delete, and move rights. I cam assure you that even with all the effort you put into making sure mainspace articles on ''Kingdom Hearts III'' are perfectly accurate at launch, they won't be, and you'll find yourself making corrections to a lot of articles anyways. That's the way this, and other wikis, have always been run, knowing that all the information is likely going to change at anytime. How many articles have had to be corrected post-release because new information in interviews or new games have changed drastically our understanding of those topics? Does not Aqua's conversation with Ansem the Wise in Blank Points make less sense after 0.2 reveals she already knew Sora and Riku wield the Keyblade? Did we not all believe, and document on the wiki, that Strelitzia was the fifth union leader, only to find out shortly thereafter that she didn't even make it to the Keyblade War? Did we not think Roxas knew his fate to return to Sora when talking to Axel on the clock tower in ''Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix'', only to find that Roxas doesn't "even know a Sora" during that same conversation in ''358/2 Days''? I'm afraid if the goal is for the wiki to always be right with this series, you'll need to wait until the series is over for that.


Now, I've advocated before, and continue to do so, that we should cover trailers as official from Square Enix and, like interview and the games themselves, canon and accurate until future information proves otherwise. I also think the way we cover the information from all sources regarding upcoming titles should be cautious, but acknowledging that the information has come out by Square Enix/Disney. So for example, while I wouldn't detail Vanitas's conversation in the D23 trailer, I would add to his article that he is set to return in ''Kingdom Hearts III''. And while I wouldn't go into too much detail yet on a Toy Story World or a new party member's abilities, Id definitely create articles for both [[Flynn Rider]] as a new party member in the [[Kingdom of Corona]], and explain in summary that in the [[Toy Story world]], Sora, Donald, and Goofy help party members [[Buzz Lightyear]] and [[Woody]] to find their missing friends and the Organization they believe is behind it. That's how I would cover trailer/pre-release information: Cautiously and vaguely, but I would cover it. {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 20:03, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
Now, I've advocated before, and continue to do so, that we should cover trailers as official from Square Enix and, like interview and the games themselves, canon and accurate until future information proves otherwise. I also think the way we cover the information from all sources regarding upcoming titles should be cautious, but acknowledging that the information has come out by Square Enix/Disney. So for example, while I wouldn't detail Vanitas's conversation in the D23 trailer, I would add to his article that he is set to return in ''Kingdom Hearts III''. And while I wouldn't go into too much detail yet on a Toy Story World or a new party member's abilities, Id definitely create articles for both [[Flynn Rider]] as a new party member in the [[Kingdom of Corona]], and explain in summary that in the [[Toy Story world]], Sora, Donald, and Goofy help party members [[Buzz Lightyear]] and [[Woody]] to find their missing friends and the Organization they believe is behind it. That's how I would cover trailer/pre-release information: Cautiously and vaguely, but I would cover it. {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 20:03, 6 March 2018 (UTC)