Forum:Our Credibility (Or Lack Thereof)

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AS IF! The world is garbage! CRUNCH! Okay, look. During the recent tumult over the term "Somebody", JC did post a link to one rather interesting forum: this. Our PR appearance is definitely poor. Take a look at these. The issue raised in the last forum was actually corrected... by me. I immediately changed it after seeing the issue. That doesn't change, however, the perception of the wiki by the masses. The Kingdom Hearts Wiki has absolutely no credibility. So how should we change that? I have a few steps in mind, some of which are very drastic and I don't expect to be done, but here they are: We need to not turn debates over information into screaming fests. The "Somebody" debate is a perfect example of what not to do. Notice how he even posted an editorial on Kingdom Hearts Ultimania. That just shows how annoyed we made him. Why else would he have gotten the general public involved? Clearly things got out of hand. Let's not have that happen again. We need to decide whether we are a wiki about presenting 100% accurate information or not. Face it; the term "Somebody" is not fully official: Kryten even admitted it. And one of the largest points raised against changing it is that "the term 'Somebody' sounds less awkward than 'complete being'". But when has that ever stop us? The same thing happened when we were considering changing "Lingering Sentiment" to "Lingering Will", and we decided to change it because that is the more official name. So we have to decide: should we use the name that sounds better or the name that is fully official. This goes for all our information. We need to use names that are as official as it gets from now on, and we need to change the names that already aren't as factual as they could be to better ones. Which leads me to my next point... We need to recheck all our (specifically story-related) information for accuracy. Much of it is likely untrue. Other pieces, such as the "Darkness changing people's eye/skin/hair color" bit are based off of info. from Nomura's interviews. He said, "Braig gained yellow eyes and pointed ears, because he was close to Master Xehanort." Although it could technically be deduced that Xehanort's Darkness was the cause, is that 100% factual? No. Even someone like Ventus-Vanitas, who has yellow eyes, can be explained; Vanitas had yellow eyes because he was around Xehanort, and that trait was passed on to Ventus. Also, why is it that Riku's eyes didn't turn yellow when he started to become close to the darkness in Kingdom Hearts? All we know for sure is that being around Xehanort creates those symptoms, and that's how we should treat it. And that's why we should go through everything and fact-check it. We need to gain ourselves input from people who don't think the information is credible. If we can somehow get them to make a list of everything they see factually incorrect with this wiki, we'll have some idea of what we need to double-check. If it turns out we were either wrong or simply jumped to conclusions with the info. based on some other information, it should be removed. If we were right, we should explain calmly why they're wrong; we'll have a debate over it if there's enough disagreement. We need to change the name of this wiki to something other than "wiki". This is not something I actually expect us to do, but it would be helpful in making us seem more credible. Think about Wikipedia: it has tons of information, but no school or business would use it for 100% factual information. By calling this place a wiki, we're basically saying, "Anyone can edit us and post whatever information they want, so we're not credible!" Regardless of the truthfulness of this statement, that's how people actually see us. By changing our name to something different, we would therefore seem more credible. Please, don't dismiss this right away. If you don't pay attention to how people see us, we're doomed!

Chitalian8 Say... — Every Player had to give up something. Everybody makes sacrifices. It was me. All of it. — 03:18, 10 October 2011 (UTC) That's... actually pretty depressing. Anyway, some of those people are just being ignorant and not fully reading what's on our pages (I'm looking at the Magic Mirror one). I notice that we're also being lumped in with the Wikia, so we really do need to distance ourselves even more. This wiki's always been about presenting the full truth, and nothing other than the truth, so I don't see a need to change our policies to fit around "what sounds better". As for changing the name of the wiki, I would be up for a slight name change, we could just make it "Encyclopedia" or something along those lines. Also, very importantly, it's the internet. There will always be masses who disagree what's there, and they just happen to be much more vocal than the people who have no problem with our info.

ShardofTruth Once you believe, truth and lie are quite the same thing. — 08:20, 10 October 2011 (UTC) I think you're spot on with most of your points As if!, I have just a few additions and suggestions: Somebody: The "Somebody" debate will never die out as long we have no official term for them, "complete being" isn't a suitable replacement because it's clunky and not used a single time in the games or an interview. I think the best thing to do would be to replace the term on every page with a paraphrase like "original persona" (which is used on the original characters of the Organization XIII for example). But that shouldn't be a problem because we never put Sombody in any article, so all that should be left are the galleries which owe the sombody headline to our friend S071084, who is thankfully rampageing on the other wiki right now. But still, we need to categorize and the only place the term appears is in one image category and the enemy template, that shouldn't be a big deal for everyone, who visits the wiki just to read articles. Official names: Most of the translated FM stuff (enemies, weapons, items) don't have a official English names or get it very late due to reuse in other games like "Two Become One" or "Frozen Pride", on the other hand the same Japanese name gets different Englisch translations from game to game (the Energy synthesis item is the worst example: it's called Power in KH; Energy in KHII and Wellspring in KHBBS). It's a difficult terrain, but if we have evidence we should use it, it's not like we can't rename it later if we get a "real" translation. Credible information: Yes and the fact template should be used more often if an information may not be accurate and input from more people is always nice. I'm working on a Interview Space right now to get a place on the wiki where the facts can come from. Any help on this project is appreciated. Wikia name change: I think a change could achieve the contrary. "The call themselves "KH Encyclopedia" but aren't more credible than a wiki. The wiki will never be perfectly accurate, it's not possible with so many different editors with different background and perceptions of the games. But we can definitely make it better, so let's invite the gamefaqs forum writers officially and ask them, what they would change and if they can help us.

...Ouch. I mean, really, ouch. What As If said is right, we barely have any new members and we're already making ourselves look bad in the eyes of public. This has to stop, otherwise people won't even bother visiting our site let alone actually joining as a member to help us. As hypocrite as it sounds, As If is right yet again. People are trying to voice their opinion and let's try to discuss things calmly and civilly as much as we can, even if the said person is outrageously annoying. Heck, we should even make commitment to act nice to everyone that has good intentions. Also, as funny as it is, we should probably keep smart-ass comments to a minimum as well, since it can annoy people much more than you know. Also, Shard's interview space is a brilliant idea, now we need to cross-check every single article, starting from those related to the interviews as the interviews are our primary source, spoken true by Mr. Nomura himself. And then we can continue to check the other articles. (Also, Chitalian, I noticed there's a pink spot on your depressed Neku TBA, you might wanna remove it XD) 17master"..." — 11:23, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

As a person who mostly reads this wiki, not edits it, I'd like to put my two cents.

I completely and utterly don't get there that came from. Really. Those people don't know how much work you guys do, they don't know how much effort you put in staying factual. I read some logs, and the amount of debate over even small misinformation can be impressive. I doubt that most of them ever edited a wiki, and most of that bullying comes from sheer ignorance.

It would be interesting to see what will happen if you plain ask them what they want to change though. Although I won't be surprised if nothing comes from it.

I shouldn't go into my ranting any further, or I might will overstep some borders. This whole thing would be really sad, if it weren't so utterly irritating. And the most annoying thing is that what you write is meant for those people.

I'll repeat: I say this as a reader, nothing else. If anyone would like to cite me, he should know that I'm not affiliated with this wiki in any way. My signature is NOT short! 13:29, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

KrytenKoro - "Space Corp Directive 195—In an emergency power situation, a hologrammatic crew member must lay down his life in order that the living crew members might survive."  "Yes, but Rimmer Directive 271 states just as clearly: 'No chance, you metal bastard.'" TALK - I'm not able to look at those links right now, but as regards "somebody" -- not only is it the closest to official term we can find, but we've made plenty sure to never claim it was the totally official term. Like Shard said, we only use it in maintenance and categorization contexts. If someone's using it elsewhere, yes, that needs to be corrected. We also directly asked the KHU-user if he could provide a better alternative, and give sources for it. So, we are asking for input, and we've always been open for input. Whether we rigorously (and aggresively) scrutinize that input is another matter, but I'm not aware of us ever just ignoring these opinions. I will fully admit that my temper let that discussion get overheated. I blew my top when he started saying we were completely making stuff up like the "complete-person-emblem", when it's right bloody there in the Ultimania, basically the Bible for KH fans. I'll try to tone it down, and I apologize that I let it happen.

Would this count as categorization/maintenance? Chitalian8 13:51, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Chitalian8 Say... — And here's me, playing the world's tiniest violin. Your face is priceless. — 13:49, 10 October 2011 (UTC) EDIT CONFLICT:And again, to everyone, I restate my point that It's the damn internet. It's a harsh place. We can't please everyone and we certainly can't silence all of the people who don't like us. It's human nature to disagree. Many of the links you have there, As if, link to Gamespot/GameFAQs forums, in my opinion one of the lowest forms of forums out there. Many of their arguments are actually "It's a wiki, of course it sucks". My point is, we shouldn't take the opinions of such a small percentage of the people on the internet so seriously when we know that the majority of people who visit our wiki have no problems with it.