Talk:Limit Break

Great page, whoever did this. I could never do this. I hope this page doesn't get combined with limits.--Xsonicdragon 05:39, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

DoorToNothing — I dreamed last night... I got on the boat to Heaven! And by some chance, I had brought my dice along! Thanks, Xsonicdragon! I'm the one who created this page. I also do not want the page merged with Limit. They are different abilities that appear in different games that work in different manners. The User who suggested the merge considers them to be very similar, but I disagree. Again, thanks!

KrytenKoro - "It's always best when the other chap is willing to die for his beliefs; you both have the same goal in mind." TALK - Response: They are not different abilities. We have seen several of these before - Sora, Donald, Goofy, and Mickey all have limits they had in previous games. In fact, right now the Limit Break article wastes a lot of space saying "Yeah, they've done this stuff before" for nearly every character KH2 and KH1 are different games, yet the Trinity Limit ability appears in both. Ars Arcanum and the other's also appear in both games, and are considered Limits due to Limit Form in KH2FM as well. Again, the various limits work differently between KH1 and KH2 as well. Many things do - Serenity and gummi ships for example. We still cover them in the same articles, because they are the same basic thing, with some tweaks to the game mechanics to keep the game from being the same thing over and over.

Limits can be used at any battle at any time as long as Sora has MP. And why is it that ars arcanum, strike raid, ragnorak, and sonic blade are not in the limits page? Limit Breaks and Limits work differently.

1. During a limit, you are invincible. During a Limit Break, you can still be harmed, just that the damage is reduced.

2. Limits can easily be used by just using all of Sora's MP (with the exception of ragnorak, ars arcanum, strike raid, and sonic blade. Limit Breaks can be used when your hp goes down to the yellow bar of the hp bar and makes it harder to use it again for the current mission after using it once.

3. The length and damage of limits depends on the current enemy and his location and which buttons you press to attack. The length of limit breaks depends on your current hp, the lower the hp, the more time your limit break lasts.

--Xsonicdragon 16:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

DoorToNothing — I dreamed last night... I got on the boat to Heaven! And by some chance, I had brought my dice along! — 20:15, 10 August 2009 (UTC) Response to the response: They are different abilities in the manner of how they work, are executed, and the user's defensive status while using the ability. In the sense that you are speaking, about half of these techniques haven't been seen before. Although Ars Arcanum, Strike Raid, Sonic Blade, and Ragnarok all appear in KH2FM through Limit Form, they are not Limits. They are simply combo finishers that are the peak of Limit Form's abilities. However, many things work the same in KH1 and KH2. For example, equipment is still made the same way. Many items in KH2 still have the exact same effect that they did in the original. Sephiroth is still the superboss. The Hades Cup is still meant to be the most difficult trial in the coliseum. And, about Trinity Limit on this subject, it remained the exact same between KH1 and KH:CoM. Isn't the Limit page crowded enough already? Plus, the Limit Break is the peak of 358/2 Days's new battle techniques. Because of this, it should get its own article, not just get thrown into something similar.

Xiggie Buy / Sell — Welcome! What do you wanna do? Just because we're kids doesn't mean we can't run a business— 20:36, 10 August 2009 (UTC) hehe :P anyway, I have to agree wit hDTN on this one! sure, some of these abilities have been seen before, but they were not limit breaks! they were optional combo finishers, limits, and opponents abilities/sleights! I think that this is a fine article, that should be kept like it is, but not merged into Limit!

DoorToNothing — I dreamed last night... I got on the boat to Heaven! And by some chance, I had brought my dice along! — 20:40, 10 August 2009 (UTC) Thanks Xiggie! Ah yes, the joy that 10 minutes of Paint.NET can bring through an image. :P Also, good point on the previous appearances of some of these abilities.

Trinity Limit is one of Sora's Limits in KH2. The same ability appears in KH1, with different mechanics, but is still obviously a limit. During all of those ars arcanum, strike raid, etc. abilities, Sora cannot be harmed (except in CoM if the attack is broken).

Again, every character who we've had a "limit" for has the same "limit break" (except for Riku). This is a good hint that they're the same basic thing, with tweaked gameplay mechanics.

Really, all of this "great difference" could be covered by simply having three sections at the lead explaining the varying mechanics of limits in KH, KHCoM (Trinity Limit only, I believe), KH2, and KHDays, and then we have the list of the different limits throughout the games. Right now, half of this article is spent admitting that yes, most of these limit breaks already appeared in other games.

Ragnarok is the same. Fantasia and Teamwork are the same, I believe, and Pearl is also the same as what Mickey had in KH2, I believe. As for "only half of them being unoriginal"....that's exactly my point. Much too many of them are holdovers from the Limit system for it to be considered something entirely unique.

Sorry, I was wrong about Limit Form then.

Your Sephiroth and Hades Cup examples are, frankly, terrible as analogies, as that has nothing to do with gameplay mechanics. Trinity Limit did not remain the same between KH and CoM, as in CoM it did not deplete the MP gauge, and you could reuse it or any other ability immediately. My point is that Limits and Limit Breaks are the same basic things - super attacks that can only be used in infrequent situations. This is the same thing in the Final Fantasy series - in FF7, Limit Breaks must be built up through taking damage, in FF8, they are random at lower health, and in FF10, they build up through attacking. However, no one would be silly enough to claim that they are entirely original concepts - they're simply mechanic tweaks of what we all recognize is the same concept.

I really have trouble seeing how you consider the Limit page "too crowded". "Half of the Limit Breaks" are identical and would be redundant, and the page is one of the shorter pages we have on the wiki that isn't a stub. If anything, a concerted effort to clean it up would result in an even shorter page.

"Limit Break" is not a "new battle technique". It's a very slight tweak to how the battle system handles super-attacks.Glorious CHAOS! 20:29, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually you could get hurt while using ragnorak, ars arcanum, strike raid, and sonic blade in kingdom hearts 2 final mix. Its just for ragnorak and ars arcanum, you can't get hurt during the part of the attack which activates when you activate it. But once that part is over, you can be hurt after that though it is usually hard to get hit during that time. For strike raid and sonic blade, you can still be hurt when you're about to attack again but haven't yet.

Anyways Limits can be used in frequent situation, but not limit breaks. Like I said before, Limits can be used anytime in battle as long as Sora has MP, making it usable in any battle situation. Even if you are alone you can still use trinity limit alone, it'll just be weaker. You can't compare limit breaks from kingdom hearts 358/2 days to ones like final fantasy 7. In final fantasy 7, they're just when you are at low HP. But when you can use limit breaks in kingdom hearts 358/2 days depends where the yellow bar is. You could have about half your hp left but still use it as long as the yellow bar reached up there.

I know about half of the limit breaks are related to some limits or special attacks, but they are being used differently, for example: Mickey's pearl attack in kh2 is shooting out a ball of light that can't be charged. Mickey's pearl limit break makes a beam of light hit the enemy and can still be charged to make it stronger. They may have the same name and are used by the same person, but they do different things. Same for sora's ragnorak and other people's attacks like donald's or goofy's. --Xsonicdragon 22:04, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

...for the love of- people, when I say "the game mechanics have been slightly tweaked", is no one hearing that? Seriously, this is not an "entirely new feature, the likes of which we have never seen before" as some of you seem to be claiming. It's a minor tweak to the system we had in previous games, just like how in KH, Trinity Limit was a contextual ability, while in KH2, it could be activated whenever Sora had full MP. This does not change the fact that the ability is, in essence, a "Super-attack". The fact that you guys are going out of your way to say "It's impossible to compare the "Limit Break" in Days to the "Limit Break" in FF7 because they activate at different gauge levels"...that's absolutely ridiculous. Anyone can recognize that the concept in Days is clearly derived from the same concept we had in KH2 and most of the Final Fantasy games. I mean, you guys don't really think Nomura just suddenly said to everyone during Days' Development, "Oh my god, guys, I've got this crazy idea! What if we make every character have a unique, super-strong attack when they meet certain conditions? This is awesome, why hasn't anyone thought of this before?!"

Similarly, in KH1, new Item Synthesis unlocked as you made all the items available, while in KH2, it unlocked as you found recipe items or leveled the Moogle. It's still Item Synthesis.Glorious CHAOS! 03:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: For Strike Raid, Ars Arcanum, and the rest - I've used them every time I've fought Sephiroth, sitting there with him slashing me, and I never took damage until the ability deactivated.Glorious CHAOS! 03:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I have gotten hurt before using ragnorak. I was up against Xemnas data battle (first battle) and he was using his attack where he was slashing me like crazy and he wouldn't stagger from damage (the screen was slightly darker.) Anyway i was in limit form, used ragnorak, hit him with all the slashes, but when sora was charging the ball of light i got hit and it deactivated ragnorak. something like that also happened when i was against Terra. I was just using sonic blade against him while he going to hit me with his ground combo (the one ending with the drill). Reason i used it was to heal me since he was chasing me and i had 1 hp left. I activated it and managed to hit him and got healed a bit, but then when i was about to press triangle again his drill got me and i got hurt. You can check limit form page to make sure. And against Sephiroth, he will react to hits, how can he be slashing you if you already hit him. Even if he began to slash again, you probably would hit him again with that attack unless it was already over, where you would take damage unless you started another special attack from limit form. --Xsonicdragon 03:49, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure how Limit Form works in KH2FM, but in KH1, the situation is exactly as I described it. However, anything with triangle - that means the previous attack ended, and you have to activate the next one. As such, it seems likely that's why you got hit.Glorious CHAOS! 03:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I thought you were talking about KH2FM. Sorry about the misinterpretation. --Xsonicdragon 04:01, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh and i wonder........ WHY are we discussing about whether the limit break page should be combined with the limits page here? Didn't it say to discuss where it shows a link in the article part of the page. Oh well, it works fine here too. --Xsonicdragon 04:04, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Hmm...

Dreambend5 - I have a plan... a plan to rule the multiverse. TALK - The Ultimate Goal is at hand. Who found out about the names of the limit breaks, out of curiosity?

KrytenKoro - "It is often said that before you die your life passes before your eyes. It is in fact true. It's called living." TALK - They are listed on the official website, and in the ultimania. All of them are confirmed.

Hear this out...

Eternal Nothingness XIII - I'm not afraid of what the darkness holds now. Even if you do wrest control of my heart from me, even if you cast me into the deepest, darkest abyss, you'll never sway me from the one cause that pushes me to keep on fighting. Whatever the cost, I'm ready to pay it. TALK - There's darkness within me... So what does that matter? I know I'm strong enough to hold it back. — 04:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC) While I doubt I have any place in this arguement, my opinion, I feel, should be heard. I personally feel that Limits and Limit Breaks are two different things. While it could be merged, as "Limit Break" can be shortened to "Limit", it should remain separate for the following : 1. Limit Breaks are executed in an entirely different way 2. They only appear in 1 KH Game 3. They do not use the Limit Gauge While these reasons seem quite poor...I can't quite write everything I think about clearly... they are in fact believable.

KrytenKoro - "Because I knew something he didn't. I knew that I was lying. Seriously, sir. 'No silicon heaven'? Where would all of the calculators go?" TALK - 1) When the correct bar is in the correct state, the player can press a button to begin a super-attack. That is true for KH1, KH2, and Days. 2) This is circular reasoning. 3) The limit gauge in KH2 merely displays the time left in the limit. This functionality is very similar to how the Final Limit function is described.

Eternal Nothingness XIII - You have to be strong. Strength of heart will carry you through the hardest of trials. TALK - What I do, I do for friendship. — 09:54, 11 August 2009 (UTC) I already know that. And now that I think it over, they should be on the same page, as Limits are called Limit Breaks in games like Final Fantasy, and that is where these ideas came from. Limit Breaks are merely Limits for Organization XIII, etc.

Images...

Eternal Nothingness XIII - Ven, Aqua... I'll find some way to make things right. TALK - This light... it's so warm. — 11:52, 14 August 2009 (UTC) The Wiki has acquired images of some of the Limit Breaks. The page looks a bit bare, yet I am concerned that the page would look to crammed...

DoorToNothing — I dreamed last night... I got on the boat to Heaven! And by some chance, I had brought my dice along! — 07:19, 15 August 2009 (UTC) They would be even more crammed on the Limit page with the other Limits. I'm in the process of downloading/uploading videos of the Limit Breaks to the Wiki, so don't worry about images.