Editing Template talk:InfoKeyKHUX

How's [[Template:InfoKeyKHUX/Draft|this]] for resolving the disparity between image and stats?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:09, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
:I tried the same thing at first, but I think it doesn't look good. The stat table is smaller than the infobox itself, and this makes the infobox bigger than the other ones, which causes text shifting when changing tabs. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 20:34, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
::We could easily revise the widths to prevent text shifting, though, and this resolves having conflicting keychain images and the weirdness of having the base image within the +21 tab.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:48, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
:::I modified the template so you can choose which and how many images to display per tab. This way we can only show the upgrades that match the stats. Does that make it better? {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:06, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
::::It helps a little bit, but one of the problems I was trying to fix was the Keychain disparity.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:09, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::The Keychains don't bother me that much. They're not really adding anything to the infobox, so we could also remove them. I would like to hear what others think, though. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 20:31, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
::::::It looks better now. I don't care that much about the Keychains either, avoiding that every stat stable of every Keyblade has a different length is more important to me. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 20:58, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::::Whatever porple did makes my version look better as well. [[Template_talk:InfoKeyKHUX/Draft|Take a look at it]] in the edit preview and tell me what you think. If we're not going to separate it, then I'd prefer that we modify the keyblade infoboxes so that keychains are either tabbed with the keyblade as in image (like we do with khx enemy sprites), or removed from it entirely and put in the gallery.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 00:40, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
::::::::It does look better, though it still looks a bit "weird" to me. I moved the Keychains into the image tab. If that doesn't look good either, I think we should just remove them from the infobox. I don't think we need to put them in a gallery, since they're still used in the KHX tab. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 12:16, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::It really doesn't. How about this -- especially since the special attack gauges and slots available are so closely linked to the form of the Keyblade, would it be possible to have everything in the table between one upgrade and the next be conditional for the Keyblade's name? The special gauges bit definitely seems like it should be done attached to the upgrade, above the stats by level, unless those mechanics change drastically later. (If so, shouldn't it be on the row with each level?){{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:06, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Basically, putting this with modifications as a switch parser in the appropriate locations for each Keyblade:
<pre>
</div><div class="tabbertab" title="Base">
{| class="infobox" style="float: right; border:solid 2px #000080; border-radius: 10px; text-align:center; margin-left:10px;" align="center" width="250px"
|-
|colspan="7" style="background:gold; border-top-right-radius:0.5em; border-top-left-radius:0.5em;"|{{#ifexist:File:{{{name|}}} Keychain (Base) KHX.png|<nowiki/>[[File:{{{name|}}} Keychain (Base) KHX.png|left|{{{chainsize|50x50px}}}]]}}{{#if:{{{keychain|}}}|[[File:{{{keychain|}}}|left|{{{chainsize|50x50px}}}]]}}<small>'''''[[Kingdom Hearts Unchained χ]]'''''</small>{{#ifexist:File:{{{name|}}} Keychain (Base) KHX.png|<nowiki/>[[File:{{{name|}}} Keychain (Base) KHX.png|right|{{{chainsize|50x50px}}}]]}}{{#if:{{{keychain|}}}|[[File:{{{keychain|}}}|right|{{{chainsize|50x50px}}}]]}}<br>'''{{{name|}}}'''
|-
|colspan="7"|[[File:{{{image|{{{name}}} (Base) KHX.png}}}|{{{size| }}}|{{PAGENAME}}]]{{#if:{{{desc|}}}|<br><small>''"{{{desc|}}}"''</small>}}
|-
{{#if:{{{katakana|}}}|<nowiki/>
{{!}}colspan="3" style="background:#666666"{{!}}<font color=white>'''Katakana'''</font>
{{!}}colspan="4" style="background:#ECECEC"{{!}}{{{katakana|}}}}}
|-
{{#if:{{{romaji|}}}|<nowiki/>
{{!}}colspan="3" style="background:#666666"{{!}}<font color=white>'''Rōmaji'''</font>
{{!}}colspan="4" style="background:#ECECEC"{{!}}''{{{romaji|}}}''}}
|-
{{#if:{{{japname|}}}|<nowiki/>
{{!}}colspan="3" style="background:#666666"{{!}}<font color=white>'''Japanese'''</font>
{{!}}colspan="4" style="background:#ECECEC"{{!}}{{{japname|}}}}}
{{!}}-
{{!}}colspan="7" style="background:#666666"{{!}}<font color=white>'''Base Stats'''</font>
{{!}}-
{{!}}width="10%" style="background:#666666"{{!}}
{{!}}colspan="2" width="18%" style="background:#666666; vertical-align:middle"{{!}}{{#switch:{{{SlotA0|}}}|Power=[[File:Power icon KHX.png|30px|Power]]|Speed=[[File:Speed icon KHX.png|30px|Speed]]|Magic=[[File:Magic icon KHX.png|30px|Magic]]|All=[[File:Power, Speed & Magic icon KHX.png|30px|Power]]|#default=<font color=white>'''No Bonus'''</font>}}
{{!}}width="18%" style="background:#666666; vertical-align:middle"{{!}}{{#switch:{{{SlotB0|}}}|Power=[[File:Power icon KHX.png|30px|Power]]|Speed=[[File:Speed icon KHX.png|30px|Speed]]|Magic=[[File:Magic icon KHX.png|30px|Magic]]|All=[[File:Power, Speed & Magic icon KHX.png|30px|Power]]|#default=<font color=white>'''No Bonus'''</font>}}
{{!}}width="18%" style="background:#666666; vertical-align:middle"{{!}}{{#switch:{{{SlotC0|}}}|Power=[[File:Power icon KHX.png|30px|Power]]|Speed=[[File:Speed icon KHX.png|30px|Speed]]|Magic=[[File:Magic icon KHX.png|30px|Magic]]|All=[[File:Power, Speed & Magic icon KHX.png|30px|Power]]|#default=<font color=white>'''No Bonus'''</font>}}
{{!}}width="18%" style="background:#666666; vertical-align:middle"{{!}}{{#switch:{{{SlotD0|}}}|Power=[[File:Power icon KHX.png|30px|Power]]|Speed=[[File:Speed icon KHX.png|30px|Speed]]|Magic=[[File:Magic icon KHX.png|30px|Magic]]|All=[[File:Power, Speed & Magic icon KHX.png|30px|Power]]|#default=<font color=white>'''No Bonus'''</font>}}
{{!}}width="18%" style="background:#666666; vertical-align:middle"{{!}}{{#switch:{{{SlotE0|}}}|Power=[[File:Power icon KHX.png|30px|Power]]|Speed=[[File:Speed icon KHX.png|30px|Speed]]|Magic=[[File:Magic icon KHX.png|30px|Magic]]|All=[[File:Power, Speed & Magic icon KHX.png|30px|Power]]|#default=<font color=white>'''No Bonus'''</font>}}
</pre>


::Come up with a different option, based on khunchainedxwiki: [[User:KrytenKoro/KHXKeyblade]] (Infobox and Unchained recipe tab). Basically, ejecting the long stat tables from the infobox, and putting them instead next to the recipes, which they are so closely tied with anyway. I know we usually put all the stats in the infobox, but considering that KHX is such a different system and we've struggled to fit it into our normal paradigm, I think looking outside the box is reasonable.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:12, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
:::Just for frankness, I showed the draft to a non-wiki player, and they said that they'd find the longform table more useful if the table divided recipes and stats into different tables, so you didn't have so many numbers in your face at once. I'll revise the table like that soon.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:08, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
::::Personally I think your table looks completely fine and is easy to read, I perfectly know what I'm looking at though. But if we really go this route the Keyblade should be removed from other template, there is simply no reason to just keep it there for some sort of gallery.
::::I also think that the current template incorporates the stats aspect that is part of every games' Keyblade info box the best way possible for both Unchained and [chi], I don't think you can break it down a better using such a narrow box. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 13:15, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::The table looks good, but I have a few suggestions. First, remove the Keyblade images, and split the table per 10 levels (11 for the first one). This keeps it consistent. Second, leave the recipes in the same table. It doesn't have that many more numbers. Maybe split the parts by a grey column or something to separate them more. Also, I think we should make the icons a little bigger. 
:::::I disagree with Shard about the infobox. It can still be used for images, keychains, and katakana. But maybe we should have a link to the stat section in it, otherwise people might think we don't have any stats of them. And we should rename the Recipe section. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 13:42, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
::::::Maybe this is just because I'm not really sure what "we've struggled to fit into our normal info box paradigm" but if it's really just those damn form images and their Keychains an explanetory gallery would be the best place to demonstrate those differences instead of making the whole deal more complicated than it is. In-game these form changes are more cosmetical than anything else, there is no real gameplay reason behind it, so I don't know why the rest has to suffer because of it. Starlight +11 is as different from Starlight +12, as Starlight +11 is different from Starlight +10. Just because some of them look different doesn't mean anything. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 16:07, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
::::::::In Unchained, at least, the decimal split isn't meaningful, while the form split is -- that's when new medal slots are unlocked, when the recipe patterns change, etc. It's a literal wall you run into in gameplay, upgrading past the form split. I think the way I broke up those tables illustrates that very clearly, because I actually broke them up by attributes, not images -- that the images were separated was a natural consequence of that. What I don't like about the normal paradigm is:
*Recipes are tied into the levels much more intimately than in any other game, and so it makes sense to me to have a more detailed overview of each level's stats, including recipe -- which can't fit in the infobox. However, like I said, the one player I ran it past said they don't see the need to have recipe ''right next'' to stats, so I'm not gonna die on that hill. If we'd prefer the stats in the infobox. The critical issues are:
*SP slots are a completely separate row below the levels, rather than next to them, so we have multiple spots to look for info on one level. I'd strongly prefer that SP gauges be in a column, even if it means widening the template itself (and possible other templates to match).
*For KHUx, though not KHX, splitting by tens ''is not meaningful'', and we should implement a way of splitting it by the sets the game itself uses. It also eliminates the whole mess with the images.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:27, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
:also, each keyblade multiplies the strength (and possibly def but there's no way to calculate) of friend medals, regardless of attribute, by a set factor. x1.32 for lv 20 starlight, DTC. not sure if this varies by level, tho. that's definitely something we have to add to the templates.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:50, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
::I think splitting by tens is meaningful because it helps with keeping an overview of the updates, something the game doesn't burden itself with. Some Keyblades changing images between five upgrades and staying the same the rest for the next 21+ upgrades is not really helpful for any kind of small infobox but I don't like abandoning the whole concept of the Keyblade infoboxes, just because there are too many levels and three different images in Unchained. Still, in the end I don't care enough to argue back and forth about this, so change it if you think it's a better representation of the game.
::The "hidden" friend medal stat definitely changes with the Keyblades level and is different for each Keyblade but not on every level (at least I think so). It's mostly undocumented and, as the friend medals themselves, has less and less influence on the gameplay and deck building. So ultimately it's hard to get by, not really important and we'll probably never know how it works for sure. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 12:00, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
:::I think we could get the multipliers pretty easily with the party we have now, and send a request to reddit if we need wider assistance. Regardless, it's as much a stat as the others are, and I strongly feel it should be included whether we keep it in the infobox or not.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:12, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 ::::::::It does look better, though it still looks a bit "weird" to me. I moved the Keychains into the image tab. If that doesn't look good either, I think we should just remove them from the infobox. I don't think we need to put them in a gallery, since they're still used in the KHX tab. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 12:16, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 :::::::::It really doesn't. How about this -- especially since the special attack gauges and slots available are so closely linked to the form of the Keyblade, would it be possible to have everything in the table between one upgrade and the next be conditional for the Keyblade's name? The special gauges bit definitely seems like it should be done attached to the upgrade, above the stats by level, unless those mechanics change drastically later. (If so, shouldn't it be on the row with each level?){{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:06, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
-==New draft==
-:I like B, but SA gauges/Friend bonus should probably be a slightly different shade, to clearly delineate rows, and either bold or a brackets or a color change might work better for the ones that the stat's change on. Italics are pretty hard to pinpoint with that much text.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:01, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
-::How's this? {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 12:40, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
-::Completely satisfying. Maybe change the ingredient files to have a link= parameter.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:16, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
-:::I started coding the new template. I managed to find a way to use the current recipe code in the new template without actually having to code it in. You can see it [[User:TheSilentHero/InfoKeyKHUX|here]]. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:25, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
-::::This looks absolutely great. Maybe the browser [chi] template could be changed in the same manner sometimes after you finished this one. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 21:58, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
-:::::The template is finished. I'll work on the browser chi template next. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:50, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 Basically, putting this with modifications as a switch parser in the appropriate locations for each Keyblade:
@@ Line 37: / Line 27: @@
 {{!}}colspan="4" style="background:#ECECEC"{{!}}''{{{romaji|}}}''}}
 |-
-{{#if:{{{jpname|}}}|<nowiki/>
+{{#if:{{{japname|}}}|<nowiki/>
 {{!}}colspan="3" style="background:#666666"{{!}}<font color=white>'''Japanese'''</font>
-{{!}}colspan="4" style="background:#ECECEC"{{!}}{{{jpname|}}}}}
+{{!}}colspan="4" style="background:#ECECEC"{{!}}{{{japname|}}}}}
 {{!}}-
 {{!}}colspan="7" style="background:#666666"{{!}}<font color=white>'''Base Stats'''</font>
@@ Line 67: / Line 57: @@
 ::The "hidden" friend medal stat definitely changes with the Keyblades level and is different for each Keyblade but not on every level (at least I think so). It's mostly undocumented and, as the friend medals themselves, has less and less influence on the gameplay and deck building. So ultimately it's hard to get by, not really important and we'll probably never know how it works for sure. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 12:00, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
 :::I think we could get the multipliers pretty easily with the party we have now, and send a request to reddit if we need wider assistance. Regardless, it's as much a stat as the others are, and I strongly feel it should be included whether we keep it in the infobox or not.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:12, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
-::::If it's a stat, we should list it, but since the Special Attacks already barely fit in the infobox, I think we should go with the separate table. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:43, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
-:::::Once again suggesting that we split the stats and recipes into separate tables a la khunchainedx.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:04, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
-::::::We'll seriously need more input from other users on this matter. Personally I think it still looks fine the way it is now and while I see your points Kryten, I value the way it blends with the other game templates more. That being said I'm not strictly against it, but if we go though with it, the Keyblades in browser [chi] should be dealt with the same way. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}}