Editing Talk:Xion

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* [[Talk:Xion/Archive 1|Archive 1]] - February, 19, 2018 
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So, as far as Kingdom Hearts III goes, rather than mention that Xion replicated Saix's Lunatic and fighting style several times, would we be able to instead mention Xion's ability to copy more vaguely in the Abilities section and then also include the Berserker in the Gallery under her weapons. It's interesting too because Xion didn't summon her replica Keyblade until Xemnas told her to kill Lea. It seems that it was because Xemnas reminded her of her past with Axel, but it's never really elaborated on. Also, Xion's face is not seen again until after she makes contact with Sora, which suggests that her Heart wasn't released from Sora until that point, but again, it's never really talked about. ([[User:Levi657|Levi657]] ([[User talk:Levi657|talk]]) 17:02, 17 February 2019 (UTC))

== Probably opening a can of worms here ==

But to me, it seems fairly obvious that Xion would qualify as trans (which, while still frustrating me that Nomura seemed to in some ways make her magical trans-ness the cause of her misery, does a lot to redeem her character arc by portraying her "good" ending as identifying as female).

Is this fair to state in the wiki? If I found notable articles discussing it, could I add it?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:54, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
::That's solely opinion, and not allowed on the Wiki, as far as I'm concerned. We cover canon information, in which the Xion the story is concerned about is strictly female. Yes, she is intended to turn into Roxas/Sora, but this has nothing to do with her gender, in-universe or out. The furthest you could technically go is to say Xion's gender varies based on who looks at her, or how many of Sora's memories she has (enough to become a copy of him on Day 357). You could find the best fan-essay in the world, but adding "info" taken from such things goes completely against our policy here. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 22:07, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
::Definitely a can of worms, you're not wrong. It's tough because the "anatomy" of replicas isn't really covered. Are they created to be the body of a specific person before being given the memories, data, heart, etc. of the person inhabiting them to influence their structure? When we see "blank" replicas in 3 they are like mannequins, completely blank slates and presumably sexless. Based on that and her initial appearances in Days, I don't see Xion as really having a gender until she has an identity for herself at all, based on how Roxas ends up seeing her. And given that this series never really covers gender identity at all, whether for Xion or anyone else, it doesn't seem like a relevant topic for anything beyond fan discussion, how someone might resonate with similar struggles based on her experience's similarity to trans-related struggles, etc. {{User:LightRoxas/Sig}} 00:34, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

:I viewed Xion's struggle as coping and learning to accept her eventual reality that she would have to return to Sora and disappear from existence. She only appeared to Roxas as Sora for a few minutes. Trying to frame it as anything else, like a struggle with gender identity issues, comes across as reaching. If you think Xion's misery was due to anything related to gender, then I think you missed the point of ''Days'' entirely. If we can't even mention blatantly obvious stuff like the Elrena/Larxene and Lauriam/Marluxia connections on the wiki, then I don't see how linking to fan essays about how Xion's plight was actually about gender identity would be somehow okay. I thought we aren't really supposed to care about fan interpretation on very strict wikis like this, otherwise we'd be mentioning all the Sora x Riku stuff out there. [[User:Soroxas|Soroxas]] ([[User talk:Soroxas|talk]]) 02:11, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Her true appearance is that of a black-haired girl. She identifies as female, others refer to her as female, and no one ever questions otherwise. I really don't know what else to say. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 04:59, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
:::...no, Soroxas. Just...no. Read closer, and assume good faith. Also, for the record, we can't mention Lauriam/Marluxia because ''Nomura himself'' went to the trouble of saying Lauriam and Marluxia aren't the same people. That probably ties into what the Nameless Star said about becoming a completely different person, but still.
:::Rex -- to be clear, Saix ''consistently'' refers to her as "it", and then the bit with Xigbar starts referring to her as a him. It's not explicitly "about" the gender, but on a basic level Xion's drama is still about her feeling obligated to submit to another identity she doesn't truly identify with (one which is male, to the point that she ''specifically says'' "If you see somebody else's face...a boy's face"), while others try to treat her as just an "it", but then by the point of KH3 being encouraged to reclaim her "true" identity (one which is female). I'm not sure I would really call that a fan interpretation, because what I've just stated is plain fact -- the interpretation would be whether Nomura actually ''intended'' any of that, or whether it's all complete coincidence.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:11, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
:::Eternal: To be clear, I'd be talking about actual reputable articles, like something in let's say the NYT or famitsu, not fan essays on livejournal or tumblr. And I'm not asking to do a whole essay reinterpreting Days from a trans lens, but instead just state that Xion fulfills the criteria of being a trans character. Like, just that sentence, with a citation to a reputable article if necessary.
:::Then again, going back to the fan interpretation, it appears to also be offensive to some to state outright "Xion is trans" when her contrived scenario is so unlike the real struggle of people in the real world, so from that tack maybe it would be best to leave this out after all?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:21, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 :::Eternal: To be clear, I'd be talking about actual reputable articles, like something in let's say the NYT or famitsu, not fan essays on livejournal or tumblr. And I'm not asking to do a whole essay reinterpreting Days from a trans lens, but instead just state that Xion fulfills the criteria of being a trans character. Like, just that sentence, with a citation to a reputable article if necessary.
 :::Then again, going back to the fan interpretation, it appears to also be offensive to some to state outright "Xion is trans" when her contrived scenario is so unlike the real struggle of people in the real world, so from that tack maybe it would be best to leave this out after all?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:21, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
-::::"her contrived scenario is so unlike the real struggle of people in the real world" -- I agree with this I think. I can definitely see how some trans folks would resonate with Xion's struggle of identity, just as many identify with Roxas' struggle at individuality as well. But I don't think that's equivalent to say that she's technically trans simply given that it's never really covered or seen that way officially in the games. {{User:LightRoxas/Sig}} 13:47, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
-== That chair was meant for Xion ==
-Isn't that chair meant for Sora, and Xion is a replacement for Sora when they fail to commit him?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:00, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
-:Who knows. I edited it for ambiguity. [[User:Soroxas|Soroxas]] ([[User talk:Soroxas|talk]]) 18:09, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
-::That is my understanding as well. In KHDDD there was Master Xehanort, Xemnas, Ansem, Young Xehanort, Dark Riku, Vanitas, Terra-Xehanort, Xigbar, and Saix confirmed, so if you add in Luxord, Marluxia, Larxene, that leaves only one spot - I suppose Demyx was replaced by Dark Riku prior to the ending of KHDDD, and since Sora was intended as the 13th then it only makes sense that they would have used Xion as his replacement, as as replica of Sora's Nobody. ([[User:Levi657|Levi657]] ([[User talk:Levi657|talk]]) 18:14, 5 March 2019 (UTC))
-:::Nomura stated in the Ultimania that Demyx and Vexen were already benched as of KH3D, and Dark Riku was one of the twelve.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:02, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
-== KH3 hooded model ==
-Can we please get some confirmation on this? I'm seeing conflicting accounts: [https://twitter.com/358_2days_xion/status/1176987856604020737 This post] is claiming her eyes are gold underneath the hood, but [https://www.deviantart.com/lexakiness/art/Xion-Kingdom-Hearts-III-XPS-812608307 this model rip] has her hooded model with blue eyes. Devil's advocate/flipside: Twitter post could be brightened up/altered in Photoshop, model rip could've been altered before uploading. ''[[User:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#002395 ;">Ultima Spark</span>]]'' '''[[User talk:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#007FFF ;">(talk)</span>]]''' [[File:Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png|17px]] 05:52, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
-::Huh, I wasn't aware there was conflicting accounts about Xion's eyes. The user who added that bit was Reign, a regular and good contributor. Looking at the link from DA, I'm doubtful that model rip is from the game. The render looks fan-made. While it makes sense for Xion to have gold eyes since she is Xehanort's vessel, if there is a confusion, we should ask one of the users on the wiki who are skilled on retrieving renders and images from the game to assist on finding proof.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 19:30, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
-:::The same user ripped 0.2 stuff that's being used by the wiki, so I'm erring on "yes, they can also rip official KH3 material". I actually did ask if the model was altered beforehand but didn't get a clear answer. ''[[User:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#002395 ;">Ultima Spark</span>]]'' '''[[User talk:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#007FFF ;">(talk)</span>]]''' [[File:Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png|17px]] 09:05, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
-::::I guess the only way to find out is checking the game ourselves. I'm almost done with my Critical playthrough, so I'll keep it in mind once I reach the Keyblade Graveyard. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 13:55, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
-:::::Thank you, ShardofTruth. :)--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 03:00, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
-::::Hehe, it pays to have compulsive extra saves! I have a save right at the start of the gauntlet. Gimmie about 30 minutes to run through, record and see what's up. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 20:59, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
-:::::Sigh. So unfortunately, I think we're gonna have to write this one off as impossible to ascertain. [[https://imgur.com/a/6TSSOFs Check it out.]] That's the best in-game shot I could get where she wasn't obscured by a glow, and as you can see...nothing. Her eyes are totally obscured by the shadow effect. I could try a few more times, but I was lucky enough to get this shot. Maybe Shard might have better luck, but I think we should wait until a proper model is extracted before we decide anything. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 22:05, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
-Woohoo! There's been a development! While fiddling around in the game's Data Greeting mode, I can 100% confirm that hooded Xion's eyes are indeed gold! Will upload a picture later. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 18:33, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
-:Actually, screw it lol [[https://i.imgur.com/vflxBck.png here it is right now]]. Cranked up the brightness and contrast, and voila. Gold eyes under the hood. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 18:39, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
-== Xion's Ruse ==
-So on Xion's page, it says, 'It is explained in her Secret Reports that this is somewhat of a ruse—she knows that Roxas will disappear if she continues to exist, so she plans to force Roxas to absorb her, saving himself and thwarting Xemnas's plan.' But after reading through Xion's secret reports myself, I can't seem to find a concrete source for that line (even though I'm well aware of it being what Xion had in mind). Am I missing something in one of the entries? --[[User:Mikoto|Mikoto]] ([[User talk:Mikoto|talk]]) 04:20, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
-::I believe the current revision is incorrect in citing the Secret Reports as a source, instead I think a better source would be her final words; "It was my choice to go away now. I belong with Sora." seems to better illustrate that fact of her knowing and planning for Roxas to absorb her. I don't think there's any Secret Report of her outright saying that, but maybe it was referring to Day 352's where she recognizes Roxas and Axel forgetting her after she goes through with her plan. [[User:Pureautism|Pureautism]] ([[User talk:Pureautism|talk]]) 02:03, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
-== Xion as a replica of Roxas? ==
-Is she really a replica of Roxas, not Sora? I know that one secret report by Axel is listed as a source, but we also get this from one of Xemnas' reports (day 255):
-''Through Roxas, Xion is assembling a copy of the hero of the Keyblade. As proof, she sometimes appears to take on his form to my eyes.''
-I understand the whole 'through Roxas' thing, but in the end, wasn't she made to be a replica of Sora, using Sora's leaked memories from Roxas?--[[User:Mikoto|Mikoto]] ([[User talk:Mikoto|talk]]) 09:47, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
-:Seems fair enough, the game makes a point several times to say that she was intended to be a copy of Sora, but only due to being an imperfect replica did she gain her own identity. Granted there is that one secret report, but that's really the only bread crumb, other than that the game points pretty clearly to 'meant to replicate sora' rather than 'meant to replicate roxas'. There should be no problem editing the page to reflect this. [[User:Pureautism|Pureautism]] ([[User talk:Pureautism|talk]]) 10:59, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
-::The Xion and who's she a replica has always been a subject of discussion, because of confusing it was (just look at the archives). Honestly, it still confuses me sometimes, but it was discussed with the community before and Xion being Roxas's replica with Sora's memories was what decided on after many debates.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 00:59, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
-::... So, I can't change it to her being a replica of Sora, then? Because, although that may be the conclusion the community came to, her being a replica of Roxas just doesn't sound right.--[[User:Mikoto|Mikoto]] ([[User talk:Mikoto|talk]]) 10:35, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
-:::According to the English Ultimania, "she is a replica puppet modeled after Kairi from Sora's memories. The Organization created her to absorb Roxas's power as a Keyblade wielder."
-:::And her KH3 journal entry states "She was an experimental replica used to siphon Sora's memories out of Roxas, and this allowed her to become a Keyblade wielder."
-:::So it sounds like she's not really anyone's replica, but just absorbs Sora's memories and Roxas's powers. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 10:49, 14 July 2021 (UTC)