Editing Talk:Villains

The Ultimania seems like it's canonizing this as the name of Maleficent's group. Thoughts?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:04, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
:Does it call the group "Villains", does it call the members "Villains", or does it call all Disney villains "Villains"? {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:29, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
::http://www.filedropper.com/khsmup9 see bottom right corner.
::Excerpts (translated via KH13):
:::''Despite all the princesses living in different worlds, the Villains (Refer to P.9) were able to kidnap all of them and use their pure hearts to create the Keyblade of People’s Hearts.''
:::'''Forces of Darkness''': ''Those who stand in Sora’s way include the Heartless and Nobodies as well as those who control them including Organization XIII and the Villains. Sora and the others must fight with these forces of darkness in order to bring peace to the Realm of Light.''
:::'''Villains''': ''Maleficent and Pete among others who appear as the antagonists in Disney films make up this group. Using the Heartless and dark powers they try to stop Sora from succeeding in his journeys.''<br>''In KH1, Maleficent and the other Villains conspire to obtain Kingdom Hearts.''
::p29 has a caption talking about Maleficent being the leader of the 各世界の悪者たち(ヴィランズ) (bad guys (Villains) of each world)
::sidenote, the Memorial Ultimania also uses "Blaig", "Lexseus", "Saix", and "Riku-replica".{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:35, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
:::The table was to make it similar to Organization XIII, but yeah I can see how there's not much info to tabulate.
:::For Barbossa and Scar, they were working with Pete, and Barbossa is listed as one of them in the card game.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:56, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
::::Okay, so what determines if someone is a villain? Because I don't think the TCG is canon. Barbossa and Scar are working with Pete, so if that makes them villains, do characters like Pain & Panic or Mr. Smee also count, since they're working for Hades/Hook, who is a villain? Only the first game makes it clear who is a villain, because of the meeting at Hollow Bastion. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:57, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
::::I was using the card game as a source for canon stats, unless overruled by the games. I think it's fair to do that, there's not much to be considered canon/non-canon within it other than group membership.
::::Scar and Barbossa are the heads of certain "gangs" on each world. So, Cerberus, Hydra, Raven, Ice Titan, Rock Titan, Pain & Panic, Lock Shock & Barrel, Flotsam & Jetsam, Mr. Smee, the Hyenas, the Undead Pirates, etc., would all be working ''under'' the Villains, but the Villains is an organization of gang leaders from various worlds, basically.
::::p29 talks about the Villains being the "bad guys of each world", so it seems pretty straightforward. For example, if Pete had visited and been working with Space Paranoids or Land of Dragons, then the MCP And Shan-Yu would have been in the organization.
::::I suppose Riku ''could'' be considered a member, but my impression of KH1 was that he was using them, not being led by Maleficent. Although I guess they all thought that's what they were doing, so, yeah.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:39, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::I typically count Maleficent's group from KHI as Villains, but those serving under them (e.g. Mr. Smee or Lock, Shock, and Barrel) to be antagonists and are just following orders. Most of the underlings in the series (and Disney films) aren't shown to be malicious characters bent on taking over Kingdom Hearts or out to destroy anyone in particular. For example, Lock, Shock, and Barrel aren't evil, but mischievous and mostly follow him out of fear. I also have a question, though it's kinda silly since the manga isn't canon: Should we mention that the Cheshire Cat was intended to be a possible recruit for the Villains?--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 21:07, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 ::::p29 talks about the Villains being the "bad guys of each world", so it seems pretty straightforward. For example, if Pete had visited and been working with Space Paranoids or Land of Dragons, then the MCP And Shan-Yu would have been in the organization.
 ::::I suppose Riku ''could'' be considered a member, but my impression of KH1 was that he was using them, not being led by Maleficent. Although I guess they all thought that's what they were doing, so, yeah.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:39, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
-:::::I typically count Maleficent's group from KHI as Villains, and those serving under them (e.g. Mr. Smee or Lock, Shock, and Barrel) to be antagonists, as they are just following orders to impede Sora and co., but don't have anything personal against them nor do they anything truly diabolical. Most of the underlings in the series (and Disney films) aren't shown to be malicious characters bent on taking over Kingdom Hearts or out to destroy anyone in particular. For example, Lock, Shock, and Barrel aren't evil, but mischievous, and mostly follow Oogie out of fear. I also have a question, though it's kinda silly since the manga isn't canon: Should we mention that the Cheshire Cat was a possible recruit for the Villains?--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 21:07, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
+:::::I typically count Maleficent's group from KHI as Villains, but those serving under them (e.g. Mr. Smee or Lock, Shock, and Barrel) to be antagonists and are just following orders. Most of the underlings in the series (and Disney films) aren't shown to be malicious characters bent on taking over Kingdom Hearts or out to destroy anyone in particular. For example, Lock, Shock, and Barrel aren't evil, but mischievous and mostly follow him out of fear. I also have a question, though it's kinda silly since the manga isn't canon: Should we mention that the Cheshire Cat was intended to be a possible recruit for the Villains?--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 21:07, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
-:::::::I would, yeah.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 11:46, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
-==Other names?==
-Hi! I'd like to re open the discussion about the name of this page. I know the current name comes from the Ultimania, but it is the only source for that name. I recently checked the Theater Mode for KH1FM (via 1.5+2.5) and I found two other potential names that we could use for this page. The very first scene of this group is entitled "Assembly of Darkness", and their scene at the end of Deep Jungle is "Figures of Darkness". I dont know what you think, but since these names come from a game I think it may be interesting to discuss about them... and maybe rename the page with one of these names. [[User:Lady Junky|Lady Junky]] ([[User talk:Lady Junky|talk]]) 22:44, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
-:I don't think we should use those names. The Ultimania actually refers to the group as Villains. These are just scene names, which doesn't necessarily mean they're names for the group. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 23:44, 4 January 2019 (UTC)