Editing Talk:Ventus

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* [[Talk:Ventus/Archive 1|Archive 1]] - October 29, 2009
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==Keyblade Difference==
Has anyone else noticed that in the gameplay videos for Birth by Sleep, the teeth of Ven's keyblade now face the other way. I only brought this up because the article says he strikes with the toothed edge, which, granted, he does in the original Birth by Sleep video. Insignificant, I know, just something that's been bugging me. [[User:Adaxredael|Adaxredael]] 23:33, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

{{KKD|time=04:08, January 4, 2010 (UTC)|text=Yeah, Nomura didn't like it, so he changed it. Seriously, that is the explanation he gave.}}

== Ven left-handed? ==
It is very strange for someone state that Ven is left-handed, as seen in the secret teaser trailer the Gathering and secret teaser trailer Birth by Sleep. Especially when we have all seen that Ven holds his Keyblade in his right hand in Birth by Sleep game play. I don't even see how that little bit was even put on his page when there is even a picture of Ven holding his Keyblade in his right hand.. The teaser videos may lay down the ground work, but it is rather silly to reference them as factual. Were I am getting is that the little bit on Ven being a lefty should be modified.

Kthnxbai.

Ven seems to be ambidextrous, just like Roxas. [[User:Hyperwire 2.0|Hyperwre_2.0]] 08:10, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

--

==Ventus' and Roxas' Themes==
I was really hoping that someone would put not only Ventus' theme in the article but that is sounds like a more complex variation of Roxas' theme.

and also how is it that some of you have these really awesome "template" thingies (I have no idea what they are called) that have a picture and a quote in a speech box? How can I make one?
[[User:Under The Heavens|Under The Heavens]] 14:21, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

== a question ==

{{Firaga44|text=I have a question.When did they say that in english that Jesse Mccartney is gonna voice Ven?(just wondering).}}


Is that even confirmed yet? If it's not it shouldn't be on the page...

The Wikipedia says he is going voice Ven, but I dunno. I hope so.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 20:04, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

I wouldnt mind...but has it been confirmed?! aah oh well. it believable i mean rly it just seems like all he has to do is make "The Roxas Voice" n and make it sound a lil younger. (i still havnt gotten over the fact that its Jesse Mccartney who voiced Roxas....but whatever) -Xero

:Jesse McCartney just said the following on Twitter:
:"Recording yet another Kingdom Hearts Game. All you Gamers eat your heart out! Man what a process tho. First recordin was in 2005 for game 1"

:(Yes, I follow him on twitter, don't judge me T_T)
:https://twitter.com/JesseMcCartney/status/6211849278

:Anyway, since it's very unlikely that this would be for Roxas (They've already covered every moment of Roxas' existence from Birth to Reuinion) I think it's pretty safe to assume he's talking about Ven. I know it's not 100% confirmation, but its pretty strong evidence that Jesse is voicing Ventus. Which I'm excited about :D --[[User:Zephyrus11|Zephyrus11]] 20:57, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

YAHOO~! JESSE'S GOING TO VOICE FOR VEN!! YAY~!--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 21:18, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

== The Armor ==

the part of the article about the armor needs to be edited. In the TGS 2009 trailer when he is riding his keyblade the armor is different colors, and recent scans show him wearing the same colored armor from the trailer. The cape has also been removed

Hmmmm...i was just wondering that. i HAVE seen Ven in 2 or 3 diffrnt armor colors. lets see...trailer one. scans...oh thats two. still. odd isnt it?

== Ventus Awakening? ==

{{LA|time=04:19, December 13, 2009 (UTC)|text=An image showing Ventus' Awakening was recently uploaded. Is this legit?}}
{{Maggosh|text=Indeed it is.}}

{{LA|time=04:21, December 13, 2009 (UTC)|text=Wow... That's really cool.}}

== Appearances ==

{{HarpieSirenTalk|text= Maggosh's most recent edit just got me thinking. Considering that it's not actually Ven, but rather Xigbar seeing Xion as Ven, does ''Days'' really count as an appearance?}}
{{LapisScarab|time=22:34, December 20, 2009 (UTC)|text=Cameo appearance maybe.}}

That doesn't make sense why make Ventus first appear in Days I mean his first appearce is The Gathering. I mean the first appearce means where they first appear I mean like Stich first appeared in Lilo and Stich movie not Kingdom Hearts II. So Ventus should be The Gathering not Days. --[[User:Cococrash11|Cococrash11]] 03:29, December 22, 2009 (UTC)Cococrash11
{{LapisScarab|time=03:30, December 22, 2009 (UTC)|text=We don't count The Gathering or the Birth by Sleep video because they are non-canon.}}

Then why is roxas 1st appearance deep dive :/ ?--[[User:Ataradesu|Ataradesu]] 01:20, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

{{Maggosh|text=I'm guessing it was like that ''before'' we started fretting about this.}}

{{Ataradesu|text= Shouldn't we change Roxas then ? putting him in COM ? it's the exact same thing, both appeared in secret movies, both appeared in spin off games briefly before having their own game where they were playable.}}

{{Maggosh|text=No, not CoM. KHII.}}

:: He did appear in CoM, ''actually'' appeared unlike Ven in Days who was basically just a hallucination on the part of another character.[[User:HarpieSiren|HarpieSiren]] 01:45, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

{{Maggosh|text=So we change Ven's to BbS, then?}}

That sounds like a plan. [[User:HarpieSiren|HarpieSiren]] 01:48, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

{{maggosh|text=Same with Terra and Aqua, too?}}

You do mean BBS the game, right? Just wanna be 100% sure.[[User:HarpieSiren|HarpieSiren]] 01:56, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

{{Maggosh|text=Of course the game. :P}}

^^;; That's what I thought.[[User:HarpieSiren|HarpieSiren]] 01:57, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

{{Ataradesu|text= Seems fair enough since "BBS video" is the climax of the game, just with amazing graphics, BBS game will show their true first appearance.}}
{{KrytenKoro|The game template includes times when the subject was just shown or mentioned. It doesn't have to be a physical appearance, or Xehanort wouldn't show up in KHII, for instance.}}

{{Ataradesu|text= No, Xehanort is a flash back, that shows a physical appearance of him. It's not an hallucination where the character doesn't even act or talk.}}
{{KrytenKoro|The nature of Xion is that that appearance was a flashback as well; plus, Xigbar mentions Ventus in the reports.}}

{{Chihuahuaman|time=15:20, October 2, 2010 (UTC)|text=Should Ventus, Aqua and Terra's appearances be added to KH II? They were after all in the secret ending of both KH II and FM+. So can they be added or not?}}

{{Xabryn|text=The secret videos are non-canon}}

{{Chihuahuaman|time=18:36, October 2, 2010 (UTC)|text=Non-canon? As if. That is at the end of the game. The only difference is that they are cape-less. How in the worlds is that non-canon?}}

{{Xabryn|text=I believe that it is because secret endings are usually only an idea of Nomura for another KH like Another side Another story many thing changed, in the gathering many things changed too in Birth by Sleep not many things changed only the capes, Keyblades and Terra's eyes turning Yellow but it is still non-canon}}

{{Chihuahuaman|time=19:11, October 2, 2010 (UTC)|text=But they still appeared in the game. All they have to do is appear in the game and they get the symbol on their page. If you still disagree than talk to someone like Lapis.}}

{{Xabryn|text=Read his second comment in this section he also says that The Gathering and BBS are non-Canon}}

{{Chihuahuaman|time=19:26, October 2, 2010 (UTC)|van=I admit defeat good sir....... You have won this day.}}

{{TalkTextTest2
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|sig=Tell me what you cherish most...give me the pleasure of taking it away.
|time=Shall I give you dispair?
|text=One of my friends said that square enix is beginning to repeat their characters(cuz of roxas and ven looking so much alike), what do you all think?
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== mode change ==

in the new jump festa 2010 trailer, the wingblade seem to develop from speed rave
also, the swords (vertical rays of light) from roxas' final limit comes from speed rave, doesn't it
{{NeutraVega|Hmm.  Hmmmmmmm!  HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!  Nah.  Not really.}}

== Xemnas? ==
OKay, how do we know that Xemnas sees Xion as Ven? I can't remember that being in Days. I remember Xigbar, but not Xemnas. Can someone clarify?--{{User:PrincessAndie8thprincessofheart/sig}} 20:57, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

In the Secret reports. Xigbar comments that both of them see her as Ven, and I think Xemnas might mention it too.--'''''[[User:LapisScarab|<span style="color:navy;">Lapis of</span>]][[User talk:LapisScarab|<span style="color:darkred;">the Night</span>]]''''' 21:36, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

== Xehanort'SPOILERS' ==
[http://www.youtube.com/user/KH13com#p/u/1/YIe9vDjOBYQ]Does this mean that Ventus used to be Master Xehanort's apprentice before he created Vanitas.--[[User:Masgrande|Masgrande]] 03:40, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
:Yup. It seems that Xehanort was putting Ven in a life-or-death situation, hoping he'd call on dark power, but nope. So he went ahead and made Vanitas.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 03:51, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

but something bothers me, if vanitas ''killed'' ventus at the same time as he and he x-blade died, that means he was stronger than ventus. if he is ventus's darkness and yet he is stronger than him (wich is his light) so ventus originally had kind of a darkness afinity (like terra or riku) because his darkness was more powerfull than his light?--you and I will have to join together! 02:13, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

== Trivia section needs some work ==

Several, if not all, of the entries in Ventus's trivia section aren't really trivia in-so-far as they are matter-of-fact statements made about the character as well as including unverified research and spoilers. Some of this information could be integrated into the article or disposed of.


[[User:Neverfate|Neverfate]] 17:56, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

== Keyblade Graveyard ==

Isn't Ventus's homeworld Keyblade Graveyard? I mean his awakeing's back ground is the Keyblade Graveyard. Beside Ventus just met Terra, and Aqua after Master Xehanort created Vanitas. So Land of Departure isn't Ventus's homeworld but the Keyblade Graveyard. --[[User:Cococrash11|Cococrash11]] 07:55, January 23, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11

I think when it says Homeworld, it means the world they primarily live in, not the one they were born in. In that sence Land of Departure is his home. [[User:Dellcath|Dellcath]] 20:31, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ven wasn't even born in the [[Keyblade Graveyard]], I don't know where you're getting that. Just because it's on his Awakening, doesn't mean it's his homeworld. I think we can all agree that we don't know enough about the Awakening to make those assumptions.--[[User:Nitrous X|Nitrous X]] 22:26, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Master Xehanort didn't mention when or where he met Ventus. Not even mentions in [[Xehanort's Report]] it only says he met him like destiny. MX train Ventus in Keyblade Graveyard. He didn't even visit Land of Departure or Destiny Island before when his heart was shattered by MX. Also the Princess of Hearts' Belle, Snow White, Cinderlla, Aurora, Sora shows background of the sceneary of the homeworld. If you still aren't convined atleast put LOD in other residence since you guys aren't even sure which homeworld he's on. --[[User:Cococrash11|Cococrash11]] 01:43, March 31, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11
:Nomura said he was from Destiny Islands.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 04:20, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
::He did? Which interview was this? --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 03:00, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
:::The Ultimania, if I remember correctly. I'll try to find a link.
:::Nope, nevermind, I misread. It was him confirming Xehanort.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 04:41, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

== Theme ==

Here's the link to Ventus' Theme[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cTJGEXiwRU]. Should it be included somewhere in the article? [[User:The Yoshiman 97|The Yoshiman 97]] 01:01, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

I agree... but i myself don't know how :( [[User:P456|P456]] 21:17, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know how to do it either... [[User:The Yoshiman 97|The Yoshiman 97]] 22:46, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Me neither you should ask [[User Talk:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]]--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 22:50, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

== Is there a reason ==

behind Ven wielding his Keyblade in reverse? It's pretty unique and makes him the only character in the series, aside from Saïx, to fight in this manor.[[User:XYZach|XYZ.]] 21:11, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

{{Chitalian8|time=12:50, June 20, 2010 (UTC)|text= I'm not really sure, but the makers of BBS might've wanted for the person to play as something different, not just a clone of Sora or Roxas.}}

=="Our hearts are connected are my power!"==
{{LapisScarab|time=21:15, April 23, 2010 (UTC)|inverse=Just what is that supposed to mean? Can someone fix the quote so that it makes at least some grammatical sense?}}
Where are you looking? I see "Our connected hearts are my power" on the page.  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 21:18, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
[facepalm] Ugh, fail on my part.--'''''[[User:LapisScarab|<span style="color:navy;">Lapis of</span>]][[User talk:LapisScarab|<span style="color:darkred;">the Night</span>]]''''' 21:20, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

== If Vantias is the darkness from Ven's heart... ==

Does this not make Ventus' heart pure, and therefore, him a 'prince of heart'? Would be an interesting plot point later on, I think. [[User:Silvermistshadow|Silvermistshadow]] 05:56, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Not exactly. The extraction of darkness from his heart seriously screwed up Ventus [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 07:09, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

I disagree that Ventus could be a prince of heart, as every princess of heart is born with a pure heart, whereas Ven has had the darkness take out of his heart and was not born with a pure heart. Also, this topic is more suitable for a forum rather then Ventus's discussion page. 07:25, May 2, 2010 (UTC) [[User:Danjam|<span style="color:darkred">'''Dan'''</span>]][[User talk:Danjam|<span style="color:black">'''jam'''</span>]]

But in that same instance, Ventus' body acts just like a Princess of Heart when they lose their hearts, unlike Sora, who lost his body (which made Roxas) and became a Heartless. Ventus was more like Kairi, especially once the darkness was removed. We also have no idea what makes any girl (since as seen from Kairi and Alice) into a Princess of Heart, so if what makes them Princesses of Heart the removal of their darkness then it's completely plausible. [[User:KyrianXVII|KyrianXVII]] 19:50, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

== Ven & Roxas ==

I know that Sora's and Ven's hearts are connected, but I don't know how that justifies Roxas looking(and most likely sounding) the exact same as Ven. How is this possible? In simple terms PLEASE. [[Special:Contributions/169.139.1.20|169.139.1.20]] 15:40, May 27, 2010 (UTC)DialgaMan, the master of Time
:In the Interview in the BBS Ultimania with Nomura it's mentioned, that Ventus' heart formed Roxas' body when Sora stabbed himself with the Keyblade of People's Heart. So the heart was with Roxas all the time and that's why he looks almost as Ventus and has feelings even though he is a Nobody. ----[[User:ShardofTruth|ShardofTruth]] 15:50, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

I've got a question based on the [[Sora's Heartless]] page, where it says that Sora, beginning after he stabbed himself with the [[Keyblade of People's Hearts]] and continuing through [[Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories]] and into the end of Roxas's [[Kingdom Hearts II]] had been a Heartless the entire time and that Kairi's heart recreated his body. So if Roxas had  Ventus's heart, where was Sora's heart? [[User:KyrianXVII|KyrianXVII]] 17:29, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Inside Sora's recreated heart. Sora becomes a heartless, he had his heart in that pat but his body was made of darkness, when Kairi hugs him the body made of darkness becomes a body made of light and thisbody takes the shape of Sora just like Sora's original body took the shape of Ventus--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 17:47, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
:Well, Roxas had the body. Sora just had the heart, and Kairi gave him some light so he could look human again.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 17:51, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

So Sora always had his heart, even though he was a Heartless? [[User:KyrianXVII|KyrianXVII]] 17:54, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

A heartless always have is original heart, but he don't have the original body and Soul--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 17:57, 
August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Ohh...thanks, both of you. [[User:KyrianXVII|KyrianXVII]] 18:05, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

== Wait a sec ==

--[[Special:Contributions/74.240.76.53|74.240.76.53]] 16:39, June 17, 2010 (UTC)hold up one minute,IF roxas had vens heart and sora had his own heart,what the FRIG was the point of them joining again?was it because of soras memories?this confuses me greatly.......I mean if roxas had a heart even though he was a nobody wouldnt he notice this?well maybe not since he really wouldnt know how to notice.....,but still this theory negates the need for them to be in one body.....
--LostTranslations[[Special:Contributions/74.240.76.53|74.240.76.53]] 16:39, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

It was Ven's heart, but still Sora's body that made Roxas. It was because of that and the fact that Sora's memories were rebuilt in Roxas that Roxas needed to return to Sora. [[User:KyrianXVII|KyrianXVII]] 19:53, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

== Jesse McCartney ==

Last time I checked, Ven's voice actor was going to be Jesse McCartney but now it is "to be announced?" What disproved Jesse McCartney to be Ven's voice actor? I thought he was confirmed. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 01:51, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
::He never said who he was voicing, just that he'd finished the voicework. People just made an assumption and said it was so. - <span>[[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|<font color="black">'''Eternal'''</font>]][[User talk:EternalNothingnessXIII|<font color="darkred">'''Nothingness'''</font>]][[User:EndlessOblivionKH/EO's Jukebox|<font color="dimgray">'''XIII'''</font>]]</span> 01:57, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
:::Sounds a lot like his voice in the recent Gameplay trailers. --[[User:Lordrogersmith6485|Lordrogersmith6485]] 05:01, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
::::"He sounds like him" is in no way a valid source. We aren't putting McCartney as the VA until there's an explicit, written statement confirming him to be voicing Ventus. It's really just a formality, but it's one we're maintaining.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}05:51, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with LapisScarab. I did a voice test and Roxas and Ventus sound exactly alike, but it just wouldn't be right for us to put Jesse McCartney's name to it unless it's official. [[User:KyrianXVII|KyrianXVII]] 00:44, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

== Still wondering ==
Didn't Nomura say in an interview that there was a reason behind Ventus' unique way of holding his Keyblade? And that the reason would be explained in BbS? Did that ever happen?--[[User:XYZach|ΧƳƵach.]] 22:44, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

== Fever pitch and the lock ==

{{ErryTalk|text=So I was wondering, this page is locked because of the extreme editing of adding Jesse as voice actor?

Also, in the Ven Gameplay video on the SE E3 '10 website, it shows 'Fever Pitch' for Ven instead of Speed Rave, so if someone could add that in.}}
{{LapisScarab|time=04:12, June 24, 2010 (UTC)|text=Yes, that's why it's locked. We know that it's basically confirmed, but as a formality we're keeping it as N/A until an official statement is released. Unfortunately, so many people decided not to respect that formality that we had to lock the page.}}

{{ANX|time=18:28, July 2, 2010 (UTC)|text=Have any of played the game and realized his shirt was off in his Awakening?????}}

...Yes... there is a picture on the article showing exactly that...{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}18:31, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

== Just some small things of interest.. ==

I noticed that Xion is called a Sora replica numerous times in this
article and that's just kind of wrong. She is called a replica of the keyblade
wielder's nobody by Axel and her page even calls her a Roxas replica. So I 
know it's not that important but I think it should be fixed.

Also nothing really big here but one of the Xehanort's Report from BBS tell us
that Ventus was originally going to be the body Xehanort stole. For that
to happen he had to weaken Ven's heart by making him use darkness. But once
Ven opted to have the crap beat out of him by neoshadows instead of use his
darkness he realised Ven was a lost caused and changed his plan to use him 
in the X-blade project. 

I mean it's not important or anything but I think it make good triva.--[[Special:Contributions/24.7.239.218|24.7.239.218]] 04:31, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

== Spoilers ==

{{Falcos|text= Can someone please fix up the spoiler templates? There is both a picture and a shotlock that are spoilers, and I'm sure there's more.}}

{{LA|Vtext=I don't see what you're referring to.}}

{{Falcos|text= The last pic in the gallery is a spoiler.}}

== Idea ==
{{LA|Vtext=Not sure were to bring this up.

We've been squabbling over the non-canon-ness of the secret videos, and whether characters appearing in them can get the game symbol at the top of the page. It's been established that secret videos in games do not count as canon, thus no game symbol.

Why not create a game icon for the secret videos as well? To put on the {{tname|Game}} template? Just a thought.}}
{{KrytenKoro|I don't remember the other opinions, but my own view on why they should not count is that it confuses canon - if we had a video symbol, it would still imply that Roxas's appearances included Deep Dive, which I'd personally want to corral in its own article (He wasn't even Roxas at that point). That's just my view, though.}}

Of course he was Roxas at that point. How can he not be himself?--[[User:BlueHawk1995|BlueHawk1995]] 11:31, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

I think KrytenKoro was saying that they hadn't named or clarified who he was when they did Deep Dive. Just like we didn't know who Terra, Ven and Aqua were until Birth By Sleep came out. He was Roxas, but nobody knew who he was or anything about him. [[User:KyrianXVII|KyrianXVII]] 13:09, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
:No, I'm saying that Nomura has point-blank said "originally he was just a cool-looking blond kid, but we eventually decided to combine him with "Roxas" into KHII." When Deep Dive was made, Nomura wasn't even planning on making a sequel to KH.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 15:18, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

== Roxas' rings in the Opening ==

Ventus wears Roxas' rings in the japanese opening.
This was edited in the english opening.
Is Ventus' Cg render based off Roxas' and they forgot to edit the rings in the japanese OP?
[[Special:Contributions/84.113.21.53|84.113.21.53]] 14:31, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

== Why does Ven use his keyblade in reverse grip? ==

I was wondering exactly why does Ven use his keyblade in reverse grip hes the ONLY key bearer to use their weapon in reverse![[Special:Contributions/74.103.8.60|74.103.8.60]] 20:12, September 11, 2010 (UTC)13 keyblades

Cononically, there's no explaination, but it's probably just a habit of Ven's.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}20:15, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
{{Randomnessity|lich=It also looks better combined with his style of fighting.}}

Yeah your probly right.[[Special:Contributions/74.103.8.60|74.103.8.60]] 15:25, September 12, 2010 (UTC)13Keyblades

What does it matter, I fight with a style similar to Ven's and as a kid I was one of the best out of all my friends. I'd be terrible now for the sheer fact that the last time I picked up a sword was when I turned 16. That was over 5 years ago.[[Special:Contributions/76.108.136.28|76.108.136.28]] 22:06, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

== Ventus's body ==

What happenend to Ventus's body after that he was placed in the Chambers of Waking ? His heart is by Sora, but where is Ventus's body? {{subst:User:Secret agent clank/sig}} 13:31, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

{{Uxie|time=13:44, September 16, 2010 (UTC)|text=READ THE PAGES! He is asleep at the [[Castle Oblivion]].}}

Ok Ok, I get it. {{subst:User:Secret agent clank/sig}} 16:17, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

What confuses me actually more about Ventus' fate is why he even fell comatose after losing his heart and that Aqua then could carry him around. 
When Ven defeated Vanitas for the final time his heart should be complete again (he gained back the 'dark parts' which were stolen to form Vanitas) so his heart shouldn't be pure light anymore.
So why wasn't a heartless and Nobody created? Even if Ven has probably the smallest amount of darkness in his heart we have seen so far in any male in the series...after Vanitas destruction he should have his little darkness back and therefore don't go comatose like a princess of heart. [[Special:Contributions/93.223.141.155|93.223.141.155]] 11:33, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

{{RN867|time=10:48pm, Sept,24?10|ven= ven went in to a comatose-like state because his heart was destroyed when the X-blade was destroyed because his heart was part of the x-blade, and the reason a heartless and nobody weren't created is because ven's heart wasnt swallowed by darkness the darkness was removed so it wasnt the proper conditions to make one.}}

Thanks, but wait a moment, i know he 'lost' his heart because of the x-blade, but it can't be 'destroyed' since his heart later found refuge inside of Sora's heart, something that is destroyed can't roam through the universe and then contact another heart.
Ventus should have his darkness back after the final defeat of Vanitas since he completed/repaired his own heart (signified by his awakening station changing form). His now again completed heart was however immediately lost after cuz Aqua smashed the x-blade.
Well, that he didn't create a heartless and nobody cuz his heart wasn't overcome by darkness sounds quite reasonable. Does this mean that when an existence loses it's heart it doesn't necessarily mean always the creation of an heartless?
Only if the lost heart is overcome by darkness it becomes a heartless and otherwise it goes directly back to Kingdom Hearts?
Man...the overall story is getting really somewhat confusing...[[Special:Contributions/93.223.186.47|93.223.186.47]] 11:01, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
{{17m|time=11:19, September 25, 2010 (UTC)|text= If a heart is consumed by darkness, it'll turn into a Heartless. And I think the hearts returned to Kingdom Hearts because their original body is gone. Then again, I'm kind of confused on how did Sora get his body back}}

{{KyrianXVII|text= Sora got his own body back because of his rejoining Roxas. What is little known is that from when Sora lost his heart after fighting Riku-Ansem all the way until Sora's stasis and rejoining with Roxas is that he was a Heartless. He only gained his "original body" because of Kairi's light due to her being a Princess of the Light.}}

== Article Spoilers ==

Is it just me or does this article have an unusually large amount of spoilers outside of its spoiler tags? '''<font color="#483d8b">◄</font> <font color="#8a2be2">[[User:OavatosDK|Θάν]][[User talk:OavatosDK|ατ]][[Special:Contributions/OavatosDK|ος]]</font> <font color="#483d8b">►</font>''' 02:29, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
:The spoiler tags cover the entire page. It's you. [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 02:31, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
::''Epic Fail''. Wow. I'm stupid. '''<font color="#483d8b">◄</font> <font color="#8a2be2">[[User:OavatosDK|Θάν]][[User talk:OavatosDK|ατ]][[Special:Contributions/OavatosDK|ος]]</font> <font color="#483d8b">►</font>''' 02:35, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

== Why Don't They See It? ==

{{KyrianXVII|text= I don't have a PSP so I can't actually play BBS, but I've been watching gameplay videos online and a question popped up in my head. Of all these characters who've seen Ven, do they not recognize Roxas in the same way? I mean, admittedly, some characters may not have seen either Ven or Roxas, and I can't comment on some of them (as I haven't played BBS either) but still I wonder. People like King Mickey and Donald and Goofy have seen both Ven and Roxas (or at least a picture of Roxas). I know it's been ten years, but if I see two people who look so much alike, I'd like to think I'd stop and say, "Hmmm...I've seen him before." Especially when the person was a good friend (i.e. Ven and King Mickey).}}
:At the exact same time as Roxas was out there, Namine was diddling with Sora's memories, which means both Sora's head and ''every memory related to Sora'' got mixed up.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 18:51, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
I don't think Mickey ever saw Roxas. And when they're looking at that picture, Sora interrupts Goofy and says "this is Roxas", so who knows what they remember.  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 18:58, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

I can understand why it seems odd Mickey doesn't even somewhat recognize Ven in Roxas. Mickey seemed to care a lot about Ven in BBS during the end of Aqua's scenario and with all of them suddenly disappearing, you'd think Mickey would remember them or at least their basic appearance, so it does seem a little far fetched the idea of Mickey just not recognizing him in all those years, considering he mentions in Re:Coded both Ven and Terra. Its similar with Xehanort, Mickey doesn't remember Xehanort despite being trained by Yen Sid, fighting his apprentice, talking to Yen Sid several times about them, and seeing his many incarnations at once. He didn't even remember Xehanort in the flashback with Ansem the Wise, you'd think Aqua or Yen Sid would've mentioned something, even off-screen or otherwise Mickey's left pretty much in the dark for most of the Kingdom Hearts universe.

{{KyrianXVII|[[User:KyrianXVII|KyrianXVII]] 03:02, October 15, 2010 (UTC)|aqua= Okay, those all make some sort of sense. But what about the other characters? I've never played Days, so I don't know who Roxas runs into on his journeys. But does he meet anyone that Ventus meets? And if he does, why don't those characters remember Ventus?}}

:Namine. Diddled. Sora. That's the explanation.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 03:50, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Heheh, "diddled".

Seriously, though, not everyone had been affected, right? The only people who met Ven who also actually met Roxas were Phil, Tinker Bell, Pete, and Organization members I-VIII. I can understand how Phil and Pete might be affected, and Tinker Bell has no attention span anyway, but why did, say, Axel not recognize him--especially ''before'' Namine did her business?  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 04:10, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

{{KyrianXVII|text= and as far as this diddling thing, it was to fix Sora and making people remember him. Namine put things back the way they were, so Ventus should still be there in their memories.}}

{{Chihuahuaman|time=01:16, October 16, 2010 (UTC)|text=No speculation! That aside, when [[Namine]] messed with [[Sora]]'s memories everyone forgot sora. When it was fixed, they all remembered Sora (mostly) execpt [[Kairi]]. That is kind of it so.....}}

{{KyrianXVII|text= I thought that was the point of a talk page: to question and debate these things. And to correct you, everyone remembered Sora at the same time. So when Kairi remembered Sora in the game, at the exact same time Leon and the gang and everyone else remembered Sora too. And I hope I don't sound rude (and if I do I am extremely sorry) but what did that little tidbit of information have to do with the question at hand?}}

Whoever has seen him will probably notice. Xigbar remembers Ven AND Roxas, which is evident during his conversation with Sora in TWTNW. But yes, it is weird that NOBODY else remembers him. But in the Saix article (I'm not fucked to put those things above the "i" every time) it states that he thinks that friendship between nobodies is possible, as long as they have memories to fall back on. This may  be why Axel became friends with Roxas so fast, it may be subconscious though, as he didn't really know Ven that well. Also, about the Phil and Pete are not very bright to begin with though. [[User:LiLLiPaDDy|<span style="color:purple">LiLLiPaDDy</span>]] [[User talk:LiLLiPaDDy|<span style="color:blue">~True tears are never seen, only hidden~</span>]] 13:02, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

I thought I might as well put in what I think: As far as I know Mickey only sees the Data Roxas in Coded and after that he rushes to Yen Sid saying that he's found out where Ven's heart is. Donald and Goofy only really met Ven in passing and have only seen a picture of Roxas so they might not have made a connection or forgot what Ven looks like or both, Axel befriends Roxas in the blink of an eye so even if he forgot about Ven, Ven might have had an influence over Axel's subconscience. Saix, well we never really know what goes through his mind other than wanting to have his heart back, so I really can't say as to him. Dilan, Aeleus, Even, and Ienzo only meet him for about a second so they most likely forgot about him. Finally Xemnas most likely remembers him because of his past with him and we know Xigbar remembers him which is why I made the assumption about Xemnas but then again with the exception of Xigbar.[[User:LightoftheDarkness|LightoftheDarkness]] 23:51, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

== Arkward  cutscene ==

In the cutscene in which Ven takes out the wooden Keyblade Terra gave him, where the hell was he keeping that thing?! This may sound immature, but it appears as if he pulls it out of his... yeah... So if anyone can explain where the hell the kept it to me, it would be much appreciated. [[User:LiLLiPaDDy|<span style="color:purple">LiLLiPaDDy</span>]] [[User talk:LiLLiPaDDy|<span style="color:blue">~True tears are never seen, only hidden~</span>]] 12:55, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

dude.......... It could be from his side pocket or somewhere {{User:17master/Sign}}

Exactly how deep do you think a pocket is? That would require the pocket to go down further than his knee, and past half of his shin. Honestly, I just think that it was an epic fail design choice that was overlooked. It's kinda like when the characters pull ice cream out of no where, it's not like they'd put THAT in their pocket. [[User:LiLLiPaDDy|<span style="color:purple">LiLLiPaDDy</span>]] [[User talk:LiLLiPaDDy|<span style="color:blue">~True tears are never seen, only hidden~</span>]] 13:55, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

{{Sac|text=What does it actually matter? I think you're right but it isn't important.}}

it's a game dude, anything can happen. Besides it's common to have that incident in RPG games, for example: FF. Where do you think they keep all their equipments? {{User:17master/Sign}}

{{ErryTalk|text=Like the other Keyblades, its summoned out rather than pulled, but it looks as if he was pulling it out.}}

{{Chitalian8|time=14:19, October 17, 2010 (UTC)|text= No, he definitely didn't summon it, since it has no special properties whatsoever. It's just made of wood. So yeah, he probably pulled it out of something. But that's nothing new in the video game universe.}}

{{Chihuahuaman|time=15:46, October 17, 2010 (UTC)|text=1. His pockets are already huge. 2. He probably just hid it behind where they were sitting. 3. It is an RPG video game. What do you expect? 4. Last but not least, this is a page for improving the article, not posting speculation and theories and dumb jokes.}}

{{Maggosh|nathan=[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammerspace Hammerspace]. That is all.}}

{{Chihuahuaman|time=18:35, October 17, 2010 (UTC)|text=You sir, have just made my life worth living.}}

1. Chihuahuaman relax ffs. 2. There's a difference between it happening in the gameplay and it happening in a cutscene, and therefore being considered part of the story. 3. No way did he summon it. 4. I'm not a massive KH fan, so I assumed there was something I didn't know about from a book or something. 5. I'm a girl 6. Chihuahuaman, you must have a sad life then. [[User:LiLLiPaDDy|<span style="color:purple">LiLLiPaDDy</span>]] [[User talk:LiLLiPaDDy|<span style="color:blue">~True tears are never seen, only hidden~</span>]] 20:52, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

{{KyrianXVII|text= What you may want to do is check out the manga comic if they make it. They might address that effect, since in there Sora doesn't summon the keyblade, he tucks it in his belt. In any other event, as an RPG, you can't really question that...if that was the case, Sora shouldn't be able to carry all of that stuff everywhere with him.}}

{{17m|text= the manga made things more realistic, really. For example: Elixirs are bought from a vending machine, and there are cold and hot variants.}}

== change ==

can you change coded to Re:coded
:No. Stop asking. [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 19:59, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

==Awakening==

{{ANX219|time={{{time}}}|Namine=Are we going to put pics of his awakening on the page???}}


==Problems with trivia==

i dont see why and they don't even try to explain themselves, but i added a trivial fact. Ven is  the only one in birth by sleep who met all 6 apprentices of ansem the wise. Aeleus, Dilan (gaurds) ienzo and Vexen (scientists) and Braig in the keyblade graveyard and of course xehanort, but before he became his apprentice. 

If you disagree, please add your reasoning in your edits.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 01:07, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

The trivia you added stated "Ven is the only character that has met all 6 of Ansem the Wise's Apprentices", this is not true because a)while he has met MX and Terra seperately, he has never met Xehanort, who is considered to be a seperate character, and B) because of course Ansem the Wise has met all 6 of them--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 01:17, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

THey're the same person with different circumstances, so I'll change that. Despite that, it was clearly obvious the trivia was referring to gameplay-wise not circumstantial.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 01:23, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
:Which means it's pretty stupid to mention at all. If it's not true all the way, and it's not unique, then it's like saying "Water is the only thing that's blue, except really its mostly transparent and there are a lot of other things that are blue."[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 01:27, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

But it is true, but story and gameplay. only you guys tend to focus on the exceptions. Ventus out of the three protagonist, Aqua and Terra was the only one who met all of Ansem the wise's apprentices. And trivia even comes in when something is controversial, so something not true all the way can be entered in the trivia section.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 01:33, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe that's the rule on other wikis, but it sure aint the rule here. {{User:Chitalian8/Sig}} 01:34, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

You're not even speaking for this wiki, are you? Point is, i edited so it would be more acceptable to you guys, and even if it isn't and you guys understood what i meant, or another editor meant, you have to find a way to work around it, not just bluntly revert without reasoning. this one was easily avoidable, it was true, and it was trivia-worthy. the only problem was wording, and i do beleive some of you, guys were "playing dumb", because it was easy to understand the fact, just not worded right[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 01:40, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

{{neumannz|time=01:45, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=It's still not noteworthy. It's basically saying Ventus is the only protagonist who encounters Dilan, Aeleus, Even and Ienzo. That's great and all, but the encounters are already under "Story", and it's not really remarkable.

Not to mention he's the only protagonist to encounter Donald and Goofy. Not to mention Aqua's the only one to encounter Hades. Not to mention Ven's the only one not to meet the Fairy Godmother. Etc. They're just not significant enough, even for trivia.}}

{{LapisScarab|time=01:49, December 7, 2010 (UTC)~|text=By the way, are you sure they didn't leave an edit summary? Check the edit history, it may have just not shown up. Wikia's been having issues with that lately.}}

{{neumannz|time=01:53, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=I'm seeing lots of edit summaries, but I'm looking at the [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges Recent Changes] page.}}

{{The Dark Master|text=Ventus has not met all of Ansem's apprentince since the current Xehanort is not like the original in carnation any more, Ventus has only met the original incarnation of Xehanort the new incarnation is a different person since Master Xheanort's influence is now dormant.}}


Are you guys making this up? Donald and goofy encountered both aqua and ven. Hades encountered both terra and aqua. Plus fairy Godmother is a disney original, not a kh original, it's not the same. Disney is more circumstantial depending on how relevant the situation was. Ventus meeting the 5 apprentice was important, especially with braig and even. Think about this is the same as ventus being the only to see vanitas face, except for Master xehanort also being one.

As for the edit summaries, i as talking about the initial revert[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 01:56, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

{{Chitalian8|time=02:00, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|neku= Neumannz means that there are a million things that we could put under trivias that are like the ones that you put up. For example "Sora was the one who defeated all Org. 13 members, not counting Axel and Riku." It's the same idea.}}

{{LapisScarab|time=02:02, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=Neumannz was just making a point. The information is already noted in the story section, just not in the way you wanted. Instead of one trivia point that says "Ven has met the original five apprentices" the Story section describes how he meets each one as it happens. There's no reason for the trivia to be there, it's redundant. 

On a side note, the idea that the Fairy Godmother "doesn't count" because she's a Disney character is just stupid. Characters are characters. <s>And where is there a trivia point saying that Ven is the only one to see Vanitas' face?</s> Okay, I removed that, thanks for pointing it out.}}

Wikipedia is better, because they highly discourage, "pointy" remarks. I'm saying Disney is circumstantial. Depending on how relevant it was in the series. Fairy Godmother, barely plays a role in BBS, and considering each went there separate ways, i would say that there were plenty of characters to do such thing. Whats the difference between one disney character and a group of kh originals? that much is what i say. 

You're all think shallowly, you're not looking at it deeper, you give examples that don't even fit to this exact circumstance. For example, Sora was the one and only protagonist in the series, anyone who was defeated in kh2 would have to be sora. And please dont make some smart-mouth remark such "what about riku and roxas". you get the idea i'm trying to tell you. 

AS for this particular situation, Ventus met ALL 5. Aqua and Terra has met 1 in particular, Braig. In fact that could be a trivia fact on his page. "Braig is the only apprentice to meet all 3 protagonist in birth by sleep". But beside the point, Ventus met all of them, that's a worthy trivial fact, he didn't just meet one. Out of the 3, terra and aqua, ventus met them. Sure, a few disney characters were left out, but again, i say it depends on how relevant they were. the same applies to kh too, such as "Riku is the only one out of the trio to not meet hayner pence and ollette" now that's something that isn't note worthy, because those characters barely played any role, and only met sora and kairi for a brief moment. Unlike ventus, ventus left an impression on all 5. and their meeting was hinted in BBS, and days.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 02:13, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


{{LapisScarab|time=02:21, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=You're only able to make what you're saying true by tacking on ludicrous technicalities like "except Ansem", "except Riku", etc. If you have to attach a conditional to make it true, it's not unique--ergo, not trivia worthy. That's how trivia works on this Wiki. By the by, Braig has met all six too if you tack on the conditional "if you count Braig as having met himself". See? We can play this game with anything. Lastly, as I said before, this information is all in the article already, it's just in the Story section instead of trivia. The only difference is that it's not highlighted for no reason like you're trying to make it.

EDIT: And why did you start talking about Wikipedia all of a sudden. This isn't Wikipedia, and we really don't care how they do things there.}}

Not exactly, the story doesn't state, ventus was the only one, and again, you're jumping the gun without properly thinking. Ont of the three protagonist, ventus was the only one, it was just a description problem, not a factual one. Clearly, it's true, and wont be highlighted anywhere else, and it is trivia. And you guys have added speculation on the trivia sections in the past, and are presently left untouched. You guys are doing "playing dirty" discussion. I mention one fact, when circumstances change, you still stick to the first one to prove your point, and when someone does make a point, yo water it down to something less worthy, and say it as such.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 02:27, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

{{Chitalian8|time=02:31, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|megs= ''You're'' the one who's not properly thinking. You're creating an unnecessary piece of trivia, and we give you clear and concise reasons as to why it's not allowed, you just give us a bullcrap response. And I quote, "Sure a few disney characters were left out, but again, i say it depends on how relevant they were... those characters barely played any role." That's not the way it works. No matter what role the character plays, it is taken into account.}}

{{neumannz|time=02:34, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=EDIT CONFLICT: I have absolutely no idea what you mean by "circumstantial". If you mean "inconsequential in terms of the overall series", that's a subjective and rather silly criterion. Besides, the Fairy Godmother has about the same significance as Phil, if less screentime. (I also have no idea what you mean by "pointy", but that's irrelevent.)

I don't know what you;re trying to explain in your second paragraph.

It is not significant that Ven is the only one to meet all 5. It '''is''' significant that he met them, but that's in "Story". Besides, how much of an impression do you think Ven had on Dilan or Aeleus?

Basically, you don't get to decide who's more significant than whom.}}

{{LapisScarab|time=02:37, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=Yes, it is true... once you add a conditional like "the only protagonist" (which is, again, not true; Ansem the Wise is a protagonist; you mean he was the only playable character, which is still just another conditional). We're not perfect. If there's speculation in trivia, let us know and we'll remove it. We've been sticking to the exact same points through this whole thing. 1) Your trivia piece is only technically correct. 1.5) The rule on ''this'' Wiki regarding Trivia is that if it's not unique, it's not worth mentioning as trivia. Addin technicalities prove it isn't unique. 2) This information ''is'' already in the article. Since you clearly don't want to read it, here:

*"Shortly after, the Star Shard sends the two of them both to Radiant Garden, and Ven tries to follow Mickey, only to be intercepted by Aeleus and Dilan."

*"His search is interrupted again, when he spots Ienzo being attacked by the Unversed. Without any hesitation, Ventus protects the boy and defeats his attackers. Even arrives shortly after and thanks Ventus for his help. Then, when asked about Terra's location, he tells Ven to look in the Outer Gardens." 

*"Braig quickly appears and fights Aqua. Stalling long enough, Braig withdraws from the battle."

The only difference is that it is not highlighted, i.e. not made a big deal of because it ''isn't'' a big deal. There' no reason to point out that he's the only one who meets them, largely because he''isn't''.

Also, you're adding "unnecessary" "air quotes" a lot.}}

Also some, unnecessary commas.  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 02:41, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

see what did i say about playing dirty?

So if it's taken account, then i suppose every piece of trivia related to them should be added? Again, you guys say it's not noteworthy, because you can do that to any character, but each of them have different circumstances like I've said before. And again like I've said before, you guys have even less noteworthy trivia on other articles, this one seems legit, but you're downgrading it more than what it actually is, because you don't dare to look deeper into it.

Aqua's has almost the exact same situation, but mentioning different characters and more detail.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 02:42, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

{{LapisScarab|time=02:47, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=Did you read what I piut before? If there's other trivia violating this, just tell us and we'll look into it. We're not perfect. If you mean that all the trivia shuld be integrated into the article, that's ''exactly'' what we do. Trivia here is something that simply cannot fit anywhere else in the article; we merge it wherever possible.}}

::BUt then again, this one doesn't fit. and there is a big difference from mentioning it on trivia, and implying it on the story. But i personally, think you guys twisted trivia, like chitalian said, you guys, intentionally work differntly, i suggest you guys get closer to . But it does get irritating, when you see conflict of interest. 

::Scarab removed one obvious one, but didn't remove the one that is practically the same as this one. Aqua meeting Sora Riku and Kairi, due to terra only meeting riku and ventus vaguely meeting Sora a few times.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 02:54, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

{{Chitalian8|time=02:57, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|neku= The thing about the Aqua trivia is that there are no technicalities, making it a unique trivia.}}

{{LapisScarab|time=02:58, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=How is there a big difference? The information is there either way. That trivia point is different in that it is true without the use of any nonsense technicalities. Aqua is the only one to meet all three. And what do you mean by "twisted trivia" and "conflict of interest"? You're the only (for lack of a better word) dissenter in this discussion.

EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, that trivia piece is unneeded because the information is also contained in the Story section. But do you see the difference? It didn't need to tack on "Except blah blah blah" or "along with so-and-so" to be true.}}

sigh.....i keep trying to post it, but too much edit conflicts, disrupt it. like I've said i changed it to make it have no technicalities, without the word "except" in it. Either way, you know theres a difference between implying it and directly saying it. for one, in order to actually imply that trivia, you would have to read all 3, not just one page. Aqua met sora, riku and kairi, does it say she was the only one to meet all3 from the 3 protagonist? no, you would have to read terra and ven's too. thats the difference, a big difference, and i'm pretty sure you saw this coming.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 03:07, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

{{LapisScarab|time=03:12, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=Our readers are not idiots. These articles are ''meant'' to be read. Trivia is ''not'' just a cliff-notes version of the main article. Honestly, no, I did not see this coming. I didn't expect that anyone would so lazy to actually complain about having to read the articles on the Wiki.}}

Don't flatter yourself, not everyone reads every little detail in the wiki's. Readers aren't stupid, but they most certainly aren't always ready to read everything this wiki has to offer. And the trivial fact, will not be remembered so easily. the only ones who know are the ones who played it, but not everyone on the wiki has played the game. The implication is far more vague and much more difficult to detect.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 03:17, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

{{LapisScarab|time=03:25, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=So they can read the sections of the article that the information would be in. This isn't complicated. If they wanted to know if Aqua met Sora, Riku, and Kairi, they'd look in the Story section, because it is unlikely to be in another section. I'm not suggesting that they read every little detail; they read the little details that they're interested in. If something is a "trivial fact" that will "not be remembered so easily", then it wasn't important to begin with. That's what "trivial" means. As I said before, Trivia on this Wiki is only meant for things that don't fit into other sections of the page. 

And what on Earth do you mean by "the only ones who know are the ones who play the game"? They'll know and so will anyone who read the articles like they're flippng supposed to. Of course not everyone has played the game, that's why we wrtie these articles. Take me for example; Before I got KHII, the first game in the series I got, I read basically everything about it on this Wiki.}}

But thats not the point in trivia. we don't post things people are going to look for. we post what doesn't fit in exactly to the story , and technically it's not in the story. It's implying it by with 3 others.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 03:31, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

{{LapisScarab|time=03:37, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=You're right, it's not technically in the story. It's '''''literally''''' in the Story that Aqua meets Sora, Riku, and Kairi, and that Ven meets Braig, Dilan, Aeleus, Even, and Ienzo. You just repeated what I said; Trivia is for things that don't fit into other sections, and the trivia points you keep bringing up ''do'' fit into the story section.}}

You know what i meant. If you didn't, well....i guess it wont matter how i judge you then.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 03:39, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

{{LapisScarab|time=03:42, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=I have no idea what you're talking about. You barely make any sense, to be honest. "You know what I mean" is just a cop-out response when you don't have an explaination.}}

{{Maggosh|flint=Okay, I just got back from a two-and-a-half hour meeting; am I to assume Bijinder's been borderline trolling in that time?}}

:EDIT CONFLICT: Sure, what you meant is "somewhere it should say that Aqua's the ''only'' one who meets, etcetera", but that's the last signnificant part of the whole thing. It is not our resposibility to point out the implications of every little point of the story, only the important ones; this does not qualify.
:@MAggosh: yeah, pretty much.  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 03:46, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
{{KrytenKoro|How about this, Bijinder - trivia sections are terrible, awful things that are strong evidence that God likes pissing with us, and sees at least some humor in human suffering (as long as it's temporal). They train human minds to be lazy, and only swallow hollywood-insider class snippets of information about a topic, totally devoid of context or understanding, and their overall impact is to result in people putting less effort into actual learning because they think they know the "interesting tidbits".

...soooo, given that, why is this trivia point ''necessary''? In what way does it improve human understanding of the universe well enough to overcome the damage it causes to the advancement of civilization?}}
i'm gonna ignorr, krytenkoro due to him being the real troll, @LapisScarab, it's obvious, don't make it seem like you can't understand it. What i'm saying is super simple, and if you don't understand, you would've asked something by now, which you haven't. lets say i want to learn something about ventus, not directly on storyline, not something properly explained. i got to trivia section, and there it is. I dont know "ventus met all 5 apprentices" and not everyone (certainly not most) will be reading all 3 stories to find something they didn't know. thats the difference, story implies and a vague implication. And not everyone will be looking for it because they won't know what they're looking for exactly. thats the difference between the story section and the trivia section. big difference. don't understand? ask questions.

@Neumannz, the last significant part in the story section. not in the trivia section, anything can go n there as long as it's trivia relating to the character. but then again, you guys change opinion. first you say not relevant, but then switch to already explained in the story which both controversial.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 03:58, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

:...Can you rewrite that?  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 04:01, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
::Hahaha...no, I was being deadly serious. Anyone who wants to take things from the existing sections and splooge them over a "trivia" section is essentially a vandal. A truly perfect wiki, or tome of any kind, has no trivia sections. To be in the trivia section, something must be truly important and notable, but totally incompatible with the other sections. That's our policy, and always has been - no amount of calling the editors names is going to change that.
:::Seriously though, you're saying you "want to know what Ventus did", but it's too hard to browse the section that is literally "things Ventus did"? That pretty well explains how you got to the end of the article without finding this thing out.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 04:05, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

no, that's not what i'm trying to say krytenkoro. looking for things that are implied, but too difficult, because they're not exactly implied, just something people can know about if you really looked for it. 



trivia section can have anything as long as it's trivia and doesn't fit in directly into other sections, you guys are indecisive with your reasoning against it, first it's wasn't true, now it has exceptions in it, then you guys say it's not important enough while the other says it's mentioned in the plot (not really).[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 04:10, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
{{17m|ezio= EDIT CONFLICT:Sorry to jump in, but you're the one that's troll here, Bijinder. Most of the people WILL read all the three stories since they wanna know what's going on, that's their reason to come to this wiki in the first place: ''To get infos'''. And besides that 3 story thing is ridiculous, why would you find that out about Ven by visiting the other article? the article itself explained that Ventus had met the apprentices, that's why the trivia is said to be redundant. And the policies for the trivia here is different than the other wiki, it's that simple: '''follow the rules'''. And from my point of view, you should be the one asking questions by now, Bijinder.}} 
:"Ventus is the only character whose name starts with "Ven"".
:That is a true thing that has no qualifiers, and is completely unique. In every way, it is superior to what you are trying to add. It is, however, absolutely redundant to the article, and truly worthless and mind-numbing. Your argument, however, says that it should be in the trivia section.
:Ventus meeting five of the six apprentices is not implied, it is outright stated. It's also reiterated on the story sections in each apprentice's article.
:Our reasoning has been completely consistent - we don't allow qualifiers, we don't allow non-unique trivia, and we don't allow meaningless trivia. These are all policy on this wiki, and are followed as best as we can without outright banning new editors.
:"First it wasn't true" - because it wasn't. You said Ventus met Apprentice Xehanort, which is a patent lie.
:"Now it has exceptions in it" - because it always has - Ansem, Xehanort, Braig, Dilan, Even, Aeleus, and Ienzo, at the least, met all of these same people, and since you are relying on cutscenes for Ventus meeting them, any other cutscene or story-bit is fair game as well.
:"It's not important enough" - it really isn't. Trivia notes should be truly exceptional, like the Roxas mural which showed him as a 20-year old, and was used as prominent advertising for Days.
:"It's mentioned in the plot" - It is. It's just mentioned in a way that assumes that the reader can, well, read. I'm not making fun of small children or foreign readers here, but if you can't read more than a paragraph of English, this wiki isn't the place for you.
:Again, I bring back my water example: "Water is the only thing that's blue, except it's mostly transparent and tons of other things are blue." This analogy fits ''exactly'' to the trivia note you are trying to add.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 04:21, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


{{LapisScarab|time=04:22, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=Okay, see the first half of that statement is what I'm talking about. I have no clue what you're trying to get across with that. I'm not feigning ignorance; I'm seriously having a hard time comprehendin what you're trying to say half the time. 

For the umpteenth time, that is ''not'' how Trivia sections work on '''''this''''' Wiki. Trivia on '''''this''''' Wiki is something that cannot fit into any other section on the article. We weren't being indecisive, there were just a crapton of reasons not to have that trivia point; One was that it wasn't true (it wasn't and still is't true that Ven is the only character to meet all five), adding conditionals and technicalities means it isn't unique and, by this Wiki's definition of Trivia, not Trivia-worthy, it really isn't all that important, and (most importantly, in my opinion) it is already mentioned in the article. Yes really. Read the damn article. I'm not saying this for my own benefit, the information you are trying to add is ''literally'' in the Story section.}}


Like i've said before, theres a difference, a clear as day, right in your face difference. the story will not tell you ventus was the only one out of the 3 to meet ansem the wises's apprentice. you can't tell the difference between "ventus met all 5 of ansem the wises's apprentices" from "ventus was the only one out of the 3 protagonist to meet all 5 protagonist"?

you guys state policy, but no link? i don't think you have a written policy. And, although it fits, this isn't a wiki about water, so the circumstances change, plus this is more story-driven, than factual. who represents water and who is blue? if it fits, then please elaborate a little better.

And yes, you were indecisive because your reasoning contradict another. and there is no technicality, it's just that it was vague, and i didn't explain it right. when i did, that's when you started to mention all this other stuff[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 04:34, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
::It's not relevant to Ventus, honestly. He doesn't care that he's the only one who met five out of the six of them. On their pages, it mentions the one's they met, so there's that. It's also a textbook example of negative information - instead of presenting pure facts, it interpolates from "what wasn't", introducing tidbits that, in the end, are not important.
::We have [[:Template:Trivia]]. We have [[Forum:All of you need to read this|this]], [[Forum%3ASometimes_Trivia_is_just_Trivia|this]], and the [[Manual of Style]]
::It ''is'' a wiki about [[Aqua|Water]], actually.
::"Water" is Ventus, "Blue" is "met the five protagonists", "is actually transparent" is the fact that Master Xehanort is a totally different, though to be fair spiritually related character.
::I think you're confusing "you are so wrong that there are a multitude of blatant faults with your claim" for "we keep changing our mind when you prove our criticisms wrong, oh sublime master."[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 04:43, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

{{JFHavoc|time=07:41, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|talk=This really has gone too far. Bijinder, you seem like a reasonable guy. You seem like you're legitimately trying to improve this wiki and it's content with your contributions. But right now you're trying to add an incorrect piece of information to the article. Others have stated it before, but I'll state it again: Ventus did ''not'' meet all six apprentices. Considering none of the three protagonists in BBS met Xehanort you could say that Ventus was the only one to meet the other five apprentices, but this is already written down in the story section for all the characters. You're saying: "What if someone came to the wiki ''just to find out if any of them met all the apprentices?'' Well then sure, they'd have to do a little bit of something called research. Reading honestly isn't that hard, it's quite easy actually. If you don't enjoy reading then that's too bad, you may want to get your facts somewhere else. If it really came down to it they could ask on Yahoo or Wikianswers. But we don't actually ''want'' trivia sections in our articles. We place them there because there are some pieces of information that wouldn't fit into other sections of the article that we feel need to be said. And this fact ''is stated''. It's just not put in bright, bold, flashing text. Your contributions are appreciated, but this argument really needs to come to a close.}}

reading isn't hard in general, but reading everything an article has to offer is different. again, although people can and some people will, not everyone and certainly not most non-wikia users read everything. Again, i changed it so there weren't technicalities like Xehanort, and Xehanort (Ansem the wise's apprentice) isn't someone different from Master Xehanort and/or Terra. And no, the idea isn't to go and read something you already know or took account of. Though, i can see why trivia isn't acceptable, in wikipedia, you guys will have to come to terms with it.Like i said, give link to your policy (if you really have one). And edit it, so you can be more strict about things.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 16:39, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

::ARGH.
::<blockquote>We have [[:Template:Trivia]]. We have [[Forum:All of you need to read this|this]], [[Forum%3ASometimes_Trivia_is_just_Trivia|this]], and the [[Manual of Style]]</blockquote>
::And again, if you have to qualify it to remove technicalities, THEN IT'S NO GOOD.
::WE DON'T HAVE TO COME TO TERM WITH ANYBODY BUT THIS WIKI, BY ITSELF.
::If people don't care enough to read the page, then they don't care that Ven is the only one that meats the 5 apprentices. Your trivia is just that inconsequential.
::Why don't ''you'' try reading carefully, so we can stop having to repeat ourselves?  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 16:49, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
::This is ''not''' wikipedia for Pete's sake. {{User:17master/Sign}}


Ok, I'm now positive, you guys, are just making this up. For one, you guys have no official policy. you brought to forums, a trivia section that has barely anything in it, and Manual of Style, i've read it before. ANd what do you mean "If I remove the technicalities, then it's not good" that was the point of one your arguments. that was one oyur main points. NOw you're saying if i made it so there weren't technicalities, then that's also a reason why it's no good? And, I never said this was wikipedia. Are you even reading everything right? You guys have been inconsistent, from the beginning. why don't you make a real policy section. a guideline isn't a policy, and neither are those other sections[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 16:58, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

:Argh. You are not removing technicalities. There is no way you can remove technicalities. You are just pointing them out. They are still there. Hence, you didn't fix anything. If there are exceptions, then there's no uniqueness, then the trivia is still a bad trivia.  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 17:05, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


::ANd why is that? Why is there no way, that i can't remove technicalities. And again, there definitively is unique, just not well-written in the first place, and wasn't properly explained.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 17:14, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Can you just except the fct that you lost this battle 12 hours ago and move on with your life, it's not that big of a deal--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 17:28, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


::i only lost in numbers, not within reasoning. still, i suggest you make a policy. not mention a non-existent one.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 17:33, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

:EDIT CONFLICT: True, if you had, unecessary comma, written it better, it would have had a better chance of going unnoticed (though not by much).
:But by having to add limitations and exceptions, you make the item contrived and forced. Let's say it would have been significant if Ven had been the only one to meet all of Ansem's apprentices. The fact that he didn't meet Xehanort and the fact that Terra and Aqua also met Braig make it untrue. Making it instead that Ven was the only one to meet Dilan, Aeleus, Even and Ienzo makes it far less significant, notable, and interesting.
:But, you say, he was the only one to meet '''''all''''' five. That's as if you said, "Aqua is the only protagonist to meet both Jaq and the Fairy Godmother." It's true, and it's even well written, but it's contrived, silly, and purile.  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 17:39, December 7, 2010 (UTC) 

I don't think you even understood the trivia. How does that disprove it? That's like saying "I met all 5 characters, but it's not true because one or two other people met only one of them". Again, it would depend on the relevance in plot. there's a big difference between 5 ansem the wise apprentices (characters prominent in kh timeline that were relevant during BBS time) then Jaq and Fairy Godmother (characters, not needed to know about during the events of BBS). But then again, you guys don't want trivia, although this is a legit one, you guys wont have it for your preference in relevance.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 17:59, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

:Bijinder - if you try to remove the technicalities from your bit, it becomes false. If you add the technicalities, it becomes non-unique. Either of these mean that the trivia is not acceptable.
:Also, the Manual of Style ''is'' official, written policy, and it states everything we've been saying here.
:Community consensus arrived at through forums, or even talk pages, is official policy. We don't have to draft a constitution to create rules. This is a wiki - so long as the community at large agrees on a policy, it is official.
:No, you lost in reasoning. We have provided multiple reasons why the trivia bit is moronic, contradictory, and useless, and have even provided links to written policy and community consensus. Your refusal to accept the face that you are blatantly ''wrong'' is on no-one's hands but your own.
:Let me just state this here, since apparently authority is needed here - the trivia will not be placed. No change that you make to it will make it acceptable. Nothing you say or do will change this decision. End of story.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 17:42, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

not really, what i meant to say is, that i rewrite it so there is no technicality.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 17:59, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

When you rewrite it you're not removing technicalities you're hiding them. They're still there. And if you make it a separate fact on it's own that separate fact isn't remarkable enough to be in the Trivia section. --{{User:JFHavoc/Sig}} 20:14, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

{{Maggosh|flint=<big>The trivia will not be placed. No change that you make to it will make it acceptable. Nothing you say or do will change this decision. End of story.</big>

Repetition for emphasis.}}

that's not true, you probably didn't even read it yourself. Out of the three protagonist, (terra, ven, aqua) Ventus was the only one who met all 5 apprentices. no technicality, no nothing. and trivia doesn't need to be remarkable.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 20:24, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

:Of course it has to be remarkable, otherwise it could be anything, like "Terra is the tallest protagonist in the series." Your trivia is straight out unremarkable. Which is to say, there's no point in making a remark about it. There is nothing remarkable in Ventus being the only one to meet all five of those people. You can say any character was the only one to meet a specific set of people (e.g., Aqua was the only one who encountered both Prince Philip and Maleficent), but if that set is arbitrary--as it is here, since you are discounting Xehanort, who Ven didn't meet, and including Braig, who everyone met--then it has no meaning.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 21:19, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


if one character met a complete set, while the other two didn't, then that would be worthy. But the examples you are giving are incomplete sets.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 23:42, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
:Don't see why. "People who have spent lots of time in Maleficent's Castle" is as significant as "five out of the seven people who spend lots of time within Hollow Bastion, but only during KH BbS because after that Maleficent moves in", if not more so.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 23:51, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


Wait, why? i didn't quite understood that. a castle, is a place, a world, and all of them were in that world. sure not all of them were in the same place and some places were locked. But i think cutscene-wise, it was relevant. that and what i really wanted to put was "Out of three protagonist, Ventus was the one who met most of the organization 13's somebodies. Xehanort (yeah, same person, different memories, no memories, hinted in re:coded secret ending), Aeleus, Dilan, Even, Ienzo, Braig, Lea, and Isa. Quite a large number, and i would say it's more significant, then three or two people that was a constant pattern in the scenarios. ansem the wise apprentice was a large group, from one world.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 01:11, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

Then why didn't you put that before?  It makes more sense, but you still have to use "most of," which still counts as a technicality.  Virtually any way you put this still will have too many flaws to put on the page. [[User:RoxasNobody|Roxas]][[User_talk:RoxasNobody|Nobody]]

He knows 1-8, and vaguely 13 somebody. It was easier to use ansem apprentices, because it was more implied, but it seemed no one wanted to think it through. but they still probably think it's not necessary.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 05:40, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

{{Maggosh|flint=Oh, for the love of Pete, JUST DROP IT. It's right there, black and white, clear as crystal! YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY, SIR!}}

IDk, it could be possible, to add this version, considering roxasnobody thought it could be worthy, just the technicality. So if we word it right, then it could make it in.[[Special:Contributions/144.90.1.18|144.90.1.18]] 01:36, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

{{Chitalian8|time=01:45, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|megs= ... did you read ANY of what whas written above?!}}


{{Dbdbz|time=01:48, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text= Why don't you just write, "Ven is the only one of the three keyblade wielders to have met all six of Ansem The Wise's apprentices.".}}

{{LapisScarab|time='''<span style="font-family:papyrus">[[User:LapisScarab|<span style="color:midnightblue;">Lapis</span>]]<span style="color:black;">Scarab</span></span>''' 01:57, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=[facepalm] '''Because he isn't!''' If you want to take part in the dscussion, actually read the section.}}

{{Dbdbz|time=21:16, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text= don't be rude LS!!  I saw you guys were making a big deal out of nothing at all, and I just offered something, so don't go getting all cocky with me. Thanks. :p}}

Facepalm, causes dumbness. Think about it, he was. Except some are using the xehanort excuse, but in terms of who's who with kh, it's pretty easy to distinguish that Xehanort and Xehanort the apprentice are pretty much the same person, despite terra and eraqus inside him, he still has control over it. same person, different appearance.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 02:06, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

{{LapisScarab|time='''<span style="font-family:papyrus">[[User:LapisScarab|<span style="color:midnightblue;">Lapis</span>]]<span style="color:black;">Scarab</span></span>''' 02:11, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=If you're going, to be a smart ass, use commas, correctly. And did you read what you typed? The forbidden word, "'''except'''". That's a conditional. And it doesn't matter if ''you'' think They're the same person; neither the games nor this wiki do. Apprentice Xehanort, Terra-Xehanort, and Master Xehanort are all different characters. They all have seperate Journal entries and similar, but still different roles in the story.}}

::That's like saying Mysterious Tower and Yen Sid's Tower are different worlds. Did Xehanort the Apprentice get his own journal entry in BBS? If he didn't then it's flawed. They are the same person and re:coded condones to it. the only difference is that he has no memories of his past. Though i will admit, Terra-Xehanort and Master Xehanort are different because Terra was still fighting within, so both people controlling the same body would cause him to be called Terra-Xehanort, same with Ventus-Vanitas. But as for Xehanort the Apprentice, i'm pretty positive he didn't get a journal entry in BBS considering he only appeared in the secret ending as an apprentice. despite that, Ventus was the only one to meet all 6.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 02:17, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

{{LapisScarab|time=02:22, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=It was was quite impossible for him to have a Journal entry, for the exact reason you stated (thank's for answering your own question). Apprentice Xehanort came about ''after'' BBS ''ended'', i.e. there was no Jounral for him to have an entry in. Where does Re:coded "condone" that (I'm not entirely sure you know what "condone" means). "Mysterious Tower" is the name of the World, by the way. Yen Sid's Tower is the actual tower (the name of the room).}}

Then if it was impossible to mention, then i think it wasn't worth mentioning. (that and i lend my game out, i already beat aqua and ven's story, but i don't like terra's so I'm letting my friend play it). Condone = excuses it right? Mysterious Tower, and Yen Sid's tower, what are they both referring to specifically? the same tower....same thing, different circumstances. similar to Xehanort. But at the moment, I'm trying to figure out how to add it in (including Lea and Isa) considering ven has a strong connection to org.13 and Roxas was a big link to them.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 02:45, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

{{LapisScarab|time=02:55, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=That first sentence baffles me. I don't know what you're trying to say, but it was impossible for the Apprentice Xehanort to have a Journal entry in BBS. He has one in KHII. Okay, so you know what it means, good, but you're not using it correctly and haven't answered my question. What does Re:coded "excuse" about MX and AX being the same person? 

The Mysterious Tower is the actual name of the World. "Yen Sid's Tower" isn't even an official name. The rooms of the worldin BBS are "Mysterious Tower" (the outside grounds), "Tower Entrance" (the entrance), and "Sorcerer's Chamber" (the top floor).

Lastly, are you kidding me? This really ''is'' just going in one ear and out the other. You're just tacking on more and more conditionals to a Trivia piece that is ''already'' invalid for half a dozen reasons.}}

Look, as a rule of thumb, if you really have to work so hard to make a piece trivia be correct, significant, and policy-compliant, than it's probably not a good piece of trivia to begin with. It's really not worth all this trouble. Just let it go.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 02:57, December 9, 2010 (UTC)


Either way, inside the universe, the worlds are the same, and although part of twilight town, the world map showed it as a "moon" if you know what i mean. As for trivia, what i'm trying to do is explain the connection between Ventus and Org.13 through their somebodies. I think that's trivia worthy.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 03:00, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

{{LapisScarab|time=03:11, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=I know what you mean, I don't think you know what you're talking about. The Mysterious Tower is the world. Yen Sid's Tower itself is a location in that world. They're no the same thing, and this has nothing to do with the discussion. You still haven't answered my question; What does Re:coded "condone" about them being diferent characters?

And I still don't think you get what Trivia is. It's someting that is worth not but '''not already noted elsewhere and cannot be fit elsewhere'''. Ven's relation to Org XIII is very complex and not practically contained in a single trivia point, first of all. Second, because of that, it is described throughout other pages. He is the reason Roxas looks as he does, Xigbar remembers him, Xemnas is looking for him, etc. All that is noted on other pages.}}

{{LA|Vtext=EDIT CONFLICT: I am an atheist, but for the love of God and our Good Lord Jesus, can't you just give it a rest already? ''It's just trivia''. T-R-I-V-I-A. NOT SRZ BUSINESS. You're making a big deal out of ''nothing''. I, who have recently gone on wiki-break, have left my life to respectfully tell you to ''shut up''. Just leave it. Drop it. I recommend making smaller, ''more productive'' edits and get settled in a bit before spamming a talk page for a ''lost cause''.  It's ''trivia'', for god's sake. At least make ''some'' healthy contributions before you make everyone dislike you.

Besides, if this goes on, I think it constitutes for "getting out of hand", and is warning worthy. Trust me, you don't want a Warning at the top of your page before you're even ''welcomed'' here.

Even if you ''did'' win and added that ''insignificant'' and ''irrelevant'' piece of trivia, our new "Trivia Cleanse" project would delete it in ''moments''. But since you haven't won, you can't. To quote maggosh, "YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY, SIR!"}}

@Scarab, i'm trying to put in the connection given to us in BBS, not the complex connection given throughout the series. And as for re:coded secret ending, it states, now that Xehanort's heartless and nobody are gone, his true self would appear. I think that's a good reason why it's there. And again, inside the universe of Kingdom hearts series, both mysterious tower, and yen sid's tower are the same place, but with different names. 

other, guy you're hilarious, but i can't take you seriously. there is no respectful way of saying "shut up"[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 03:20, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
{{LA|Vtext=...did you even read what I said?

Give up. This isn't a healthy way to join a wiki. I don't want to see you embarrass yourself before anyone even welcomes you. There are ''plenty'' of other things that need editing here, and a piece of trivia isn't a constructive thing to waste time over.

I'll be here all week.}}

Then how about this, you guys make an official policy that helps you and me out, so next time a new wiki editor is out there thinking he's right, This will compile every unwritten rule out there official, and help to put it in one link. And not just for trivia, but for other things too.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 03:25, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

{{Maggosh|flint=After all this ruckus you caused? No.}}


{{LapisScarab|time=03:30, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=''Did'' histrue self appear? Just saying "His true self will appear" doesn't mean MX and AX are the same person. In fact, if one or the other was show, it just supports the fact that they are ''different characters''. You weren't paying attention, were you? They're not the same place; one is a world, one is a location ''in'' that world. Merlin's House is not the same thing as Radiant Garden.

And you lost me in that first sentence again. Organization XIII doesn't appear in BBS. Ven cannot have any conenction to them before they existed. He has a connection ot their original beings, yes, but as has been said multiple times, that is noted in the Story section of, well, '''''every single one of their pages'''''.}}

:{{LapisScarab|time=03:34, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|shocktext=READ THE FUCKING SECTION YOU'VE BEEN EDITING FOR THREE DAYS. We've linked you to multiple places where our Trivia policy is stated ''twice''. I try ''very'' hard to avoid using obscenities on this Wiki, and you're the first one I've actually broken this policy for. Cngratulations, I'm 100% out of patience with you. The discussion is over. It has been over or days. Give. It. Up.}}

:::NO, no, no Lapis. those are conversations that happen to meet a consensus by a certain ammount of people. So if i found a group of people who agreed with me, then will that be policy too? Or does it take a certain authority to do that? See...that's where the line isn't drawn. the problem with those, someone can just argue for days on those sections rather than making it a real official policy. think about it. I've read it, but they don't look like a policy at all, it' not very convincing and looks like an amateur way of making rules. I'm talking about a page of collected consensus, (again not just about trivia) that you guys already established. Instead of linking to various other. 

:::Also, the trivia was barely touched on one, and had two people talking in it, the other had a moderate conversation, while the other usage one, didn't really help at all in this situation.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 03:42, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
{{LA|Vangry=.....<big>'''IT'S A POLICY.'''</big>

EDIT: Great, you made Lapis leave. Happy?}}

it's like you guys ignore reasoning whenever it suits you. i don't think you even know what policy means. Either, way i suggest you make an official policy, not a guideline to usage (which didn't help) or forum conversations that are taken as policy. I mean literally, make a page dedicated for Rules on here. Not scatter them. At the moment, we're off topic, but for a good cause, and it seems you guys want it to be "no" because it's coming from me[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 03:59, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
{{LA|Vangry=<s>We've only been LINKING you to the rules for about three days now. It's called the [[Kingdom Hearts Wiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]]. ALL OF OUR POLICIES ON EDITING GO THERE. If it ''isn't'' there, it probably hasn't been updated yet.

You're a new user, for cripes sake. You have been on this wiki for less than a month. THIS IS THE WAY WE RUN THINGS HERE, KSWEETDEAL? We know what a ''policy'' is here better than you. You are not in a position to lecture us about the way we work. If you ''don't'' like the way we work, you were doing the right thing; discussing the rules and considering revision. But what ''you're'' doing has gone too far. The only reason we're still saying "no" to you is because WE HAVE ALREADY MADE UP OUR MIND. Stop being a such stubborn kid and accept that you are wrong. If you had done that TWO DAYS AGO, Lapis would still be here. Way to go. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE ''LISTEN'' TO WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. The people you have been talking to are professionals on this matter, no doubt. Right now, you are being disruptive. Please DROP THIS, and don</s>

Fuck it. I'm wasting my time. This is ex''act''ly the reason I don't like being here anymore.}}

{{ST|text=whatever it is you're rambling about now, the bottom line is that the piece of trivia is not being added. Depending on the technicality it is no way true, and even if it was it is completely irrelevant and is in no way significant. This conversation is over, you lose, move on with your life}}

{{ErryTalk|time=04:12, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|eziotext=Do you want a <big>'''POLICY?'''</big> Go [[Kingdom Hearts Wiki:Manual of Style|here]] for one, and in that page it explicitly says:<br>
<big>'''<font color="#FF0000">Do not insert redundant information into the trivia section, particularly when the information is already contained within the main article body.</font>'''</big>}}

But it's not exactly in there. you ,e, and everyone here knows there's a difference between the trivia i mention and the plot in there. Both state different things, but that's not the point. Manual of Style, is more like a format on how things should be placed, but you don't have a general rule for forums and, what your standards are. These guys keep saying, they gave me the link, but i know they didn't even look at the title themselves. They linked me to forums, and a usage section that doesn't even cover it. The idea is to have one official page, so that it's clean enough to look at, easy to look up without some user pointing it out when you make a mistake. 

And now, some of these guys aren't even paying attention. they just say whatever.04:19, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

{{LA|Vangry=''You'' aren't paying attention. We have been screaming in your face for ''days'' that the Manual of Style is our official policies. Take it or leave it.}}

Manual of Style, is more like a guide onto making an article. I'm talking about policy against some other actions.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 04:27, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
:There is a policy that if you spam talk pages, you can get warnings and eventually blocked...is that the policy you're looking for?[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 04:30, December 9, 2010 (UTC) 
::Lulz, but I agree with Kryten and LA. Also, care to elaborate on these so called "other actions"? {{User:Erry/Sig4}} 04:32, December 9, 2010 (UTC) 
::Okay.
#We do not allow rules-lawyering here. We have policy on the manual of style, and we have general formatting that we, as a community, agree on. We all know that you want some "Constitution of the Wiki" so that you can try and find some snippet that you can twist to try and force the trivia, and it's not going to work.
#The consensus is overwhelmingly in favor of "the trivia's not fucking being put there", and multiple reasons, many of which stem from policy, have been given as to why the trivia point should not be there.
#You are spamming this page. If you continue to post on this topic (or the Keyblade Armor discussion), you will receive an official warning, which can lead to a block or ban.
#You have personally driven away one of our best editors with your belligerent attitude, and you have pretty much lost all good faith on this wiki. I think it's fair to say that no one is willing to oblige you on anything.
#If you desire to contribute to this wiki ''at all'', I personally suggest you choose one of the simple cleanup projects (like filling in the Card: articles), and wait until the community isn't out for your blood to even attempt a discussion on any other topic.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 04:40, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
Not exactly. i'm saying, if there was an actual policy page, then yes. i would be more oblige to do things the way, the wiki wants, not the way editors want. 
no i'm not spamming. Driven away, best editors? maybe, but then again, Wiki have been known for misunderstandings due to this exact problem. 
And you admitted, the problem isn't the idea of a policy page, but who's idea it's coming from.[[User:Bijinder 00|Bijinder 00]] 05:15, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

== About the first paragraph ==

{{TalkSephiroth0812|time=09:54, December 8, 2010 (UTC)|text=I noticed repeated edits to the header-paragraph despite it being all right before it. I appreciate Kryten's approach to merge both versions as to avoid another edit war, but as I see it it makes the article unnecessary long, as all this added information is '''redundant'''. Most of it is already covered by the story section and does not need to be mentioned in the first paragraph again.}}
:The Lead is meant to summarize the topic, so some redundancy is to be expected. If you want to post a draft on the talk page for discussion, then by all means do so.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 04:40, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

{{TalkSephiroth0812|time=16:16, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=I've actually set this back to the way it was last done by Soxra because this version is grammatically and story-wise the most correct one. I actually ''dissected'' the ''supposed'' better version and found some glaring errors or respectively sentences explaining facts already covered there in a more complicated language. The most obvious being this: ''alternate persona of Vanitas.'', there's no discussing it that this is plainly and utterly wrong. Vanitas originated from Ventus and was created from his darkness, but nevertheless they're both distinct persons. Then ''granting the boy the ability to use the Keyblade.'' is also wrong, as Ventus's heart within Sora only allows him to dual wield, the ability to wield a keyblade is Sora's own.
As for comparing both versions of the paragraph [[http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/index.php?title=Ventus&diff=440301&oldid=440231|<font color=#A9A9A9>here</font>]], I personally found the one on the left is way more understandable written and was fine as it was. The only two things not covered in that old version were that Ven was Master Xehanort's apprentice four years before BBS, which is said in the very first sentence of the story-section and that Vanitas got Sora's face because of the deep heart-connection between Sora/Ven, which for my comprehension belongs on Vanitas's article.
But if it is wanted to really re-write that section despite it's good shape I'll give it a shot...;) }}
:Nomura did say that Sora became a Keyblade wielder due to touching Ventus's heart; however, the Kingdom Key he later gains is his own, while his second Keyblade is Ventus's. Basically, joining with Ventus did two things.
:There's no such thing as an "awakening station". There are Stations of the "Dive to the Heart", but "awakening" is just a name for the "Station of Awakening", one of the pillars in Roxas's Dive to the Heart.
:"is a Y before X becomes one" is very awkward wording.
:The coverage of his connection to Sora does best as one paragraph.
:Your version of the Sora coverage has a run-on sentence punctuated with improper commas.
:Ventus's heart, appearance, and Keyblade specifically went to Roxas while he was in existence.
:The name meaning thing has really nothing to do with his connection to Sora, plot-wise, so putting it there doesn't make much sense.
:"even though they only ever meet through their hearts" doesn't seem necessary here, especially since that kind of thing is rife throughout the series anyway.

If there are specific factual or grammatical errors you'd like to bring up, please do, but because there are a multitude of factual and grammatical errors in the current version (and I can't find any in mine), I'm reverting it again.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 16:34, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

{{TalkSephiroth0812|time=16:57, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text= Ok, this version really covers it better. I rephrased it a bit to bring out some factual nuances better, as Sora didn't really ''absorb'' Ven's heart, he just allowed it to find refuge inside his own were it went to sleep.
In what interview or Ultimania did Nomura say that? Because I remember another Nomura interview where he said Sora didn't got/inherited anything from Ven beside his dual-wielding. But maybe this version is acceptable now...
Ooops, just noted one spelling error at the word similar...;)}}
::"sustains an even severer injury due to the destruction of the [[X-blade|χ-blade]], it establishes contact to Sora again and is granted shelter and protection inside Sora's own heart. " - this is just not English, I'm sorry.
:"As Sora filled in Ventus’ fractured heart, the fractured part (Vanitas) was effected by Sora and ended up with Sora’s face"
:"Yes he does have connections with Ventus’ heart, among others, but he hasn’t inherited anything from them." - While Nomura says this, it is poppycock. Nomura flat-out says otherwhere that Sora's second Keyblade, Roxas's second Keyblade, is due to Ventus's heart. (Though, it's possible that "them" refers only to the other hearts).
:"A: Because he can use both Sora’s and Ventus’ keyblades. Sora can wield two keyblades at once because he has Ventus’ as well as his own. As Roxas is a part of Sora, he also can use two. In Days Roxas awakened his ability to dual wield after fighting Xion. In KHII once Sora absorbs him, he can also dual-wield." - Here, specifically.
:"When he was born into the world, he linked with Ventus filling his fractured heart. Many years later, when Ventus was on the verge of disappearing after his fight with Vanitas, Sora took him into his own heart."
:"To use a keyblade you must have been chosen to inherit as well as been chosen by the keyblade itself. In BbS you could see that Terra performed the ceremony with Riku, and that is why Riku was able to take the keyblade that Sora used." - I can't find an exact quote supporting Sora inheriting wielder status from Ventus, but this basically says that some form of the ceremony must go through. Sora only ever touched Ventus's heart (and thus his Keyblade); before the final episode, when Aqua arrived at Destiny Islands, she does not sense that Sora is a Keyblade wielder. However, as soon as Sora takes in Ventus's heart at the end, he goes so far as to have a Dive to the Heart. Although Nomura doesn't specifically say that the final absorption is what made him a Keyblade wielder, the game does (by having a Dive to the Heart), so that's supported.

EDIT:

Here is my final revision of the section, which I believe addresses your complaints; however, looking at it, I realize that it has become more about Sora, rather than an overview of Ventus. It should be recycled for use within the article itself; I'm going to try a new version of the lead.

<blockquote>
When Ventus's heart was disappearing due to Vanitas's creation, Sora's heart reached out and lent part of his own heart to Ventus, mending Ventus's heart and bringing him back to life. Ever since, Sora has shared a strong bond with Ventus, and when Ventus's heart is once again damaged, this time due to Vanitas's destruction, he takes it in completely. This act turns Sora into a Keyblade wielder, and eventually allows him to wield Ventus's Keyblade alongside his own. Ventus's appearance and Keyblade are even passed on to Sora's Nobody, [[Roxas]], while he exists.</blockquote>

Does the new lead look okay to you?[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]]

{{TalkSephiroth0812|time=17:43, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=About it not being proper english...well, since I'm native german I can't really argue with you on that...but this particular one was also modified by Soxra I think. Although I don't know what ''severer'' means, if at all it should be ''more severe'', should it not?
Yeah Nomura rescinded this to ''didn't inherit anything from Ven except the second keyblade'', however this one I never challenged. ''"When he was born into the world, he linked with Ventus filling his fractured heart. Many years later, when Ventus was on the verge of disappearing after his fight with Vanitas, Sora took him into his own heart."'' This one is however somewhat tricky, it is true that Ventus's heart sustained a second, grave injury after his last fight with Vanitas, but the reason for this was not Vanitas's destruction, but the destruction of the x-blade. Both hearts (Ven's and Vanitas's) were tightly connected to the x-blade and therefore its destruction backlashed on both of their hearts. Vanitas himself even says so, if the blade would be destroyed so would be the hearts which were used to forge it. The only reason it was an grave injury instead of full destruction of their hearts was because the x-blade was incomplete.
So this new version looks fine except for the reason for Ven's second injury...;) }}
:I think the new version goes into too much detail; also, as I understood it, Ventus could only live so long as Vanitas lived, even though they were separate. I may be wrong, but if Ventus's heart was being actively destroyed, I don't see how Sora could fix it by letting the heart hide within him. Plus, Vanitas's heart and body were totally destroyed, unlike Ventus who simply went comatose.
::The x-blade was definitely the cause of it (pretty sure that's what killed Vanitas), so how is the new version?
:There's also a few bits of too awkward wording.
::forcing it at the end to go to sleep inside Sora's heart until it can be healed and safely rejoin his body, which lies comatose but safe within the [[Chamber of Waking]].
*Ventus's heart wasn't forced, the two of them agreed to it.
*"recover" is better indicative of the long, passive process; "be healed" suggests that it is waiting for someone to cast Cure.
:I changed that a bit to take both wordings into account; how is it now?[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 18:25, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

{{TalkSephiroth0812|time=18:53, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=Ventus could live without Vanitas, because of his connection with Sora. His newborn heart clearly said in the prologue it would support Ven's heart until he can fully heal it by himself. If Ven would have destroyed Vanitas without the x-blade in the mix he would be perfectly fine because of that connection. No, no, Ven's heart was not actively destroyed, just the injury was several magnitudes stronger so that the connection with Sora wasn't enough to sustain it anymore, it was fading. If the x-blade would have been complete then Ven's heart would have been destroyed without even having a chance to contact Sora. That's why also Vanitas's heart wasn't fully destroyed, yet the body and soul of Vanitas were.
About this ''forcing'', yeah, both agreed to it since Ven politely requested Sora's help, yet Ventus's heart was indeed ''forced'' to leave its body because it was so heavily injured...if Sora had denied Ven's request, his heart would have been doomed to fade into the darkness. 
As for recover, do we really know that a heart can heal by itself? The trinity archives only say Ven's heart went to rest within Sora. 
It's actually implied that the secret how to heal a heart lies within the data Ansem the wise hid inside Sora among some other things.
However, I don't want to be nitpicky...if it comes to actual fine-tuning of word meanings my english is probably not yet good enough...}}
:I'm still not sure that the injury wasn't due to part of Ventus's heart (Vanitas) being obliterated, but your claim seems reasonable enough, so let's go with that for now.
:"Forcing" implies that it was shoved into Sora's heart against one or both of their wills. While the circumstances were that Ventus's heart ''needed'' it, both of them agreed to it.
:"be healed" implies something much more active and immediate (like being at the hospital and being treated), while "recover" implies a long, passive process, something your body does through natural healing over time. "Rest and recover" are sometimes used, while "rest and be healed" are not, basically.
::I corrected the lead to just say "due to the x-blade's destruction". Does it look OK?[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 19:15, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

{{TalkSephiroth0812|time=19:27, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text= Ok, then let's go with this. Yeah, now it looks really OK that way. Overlooking it all and your last explanations I noticed I tend to use sometimes too strong wordings...have to look out for this for sure. Thanks for your patience, Kryten. Now it's fine. And as the move is not commencing yet I probably shall go and work on the abilities-section of Aqua and Terra now, to adjust them to Ven's according to the format you suggested. ^_^ }}

== Did anyone else notice...? ==

If Ventus's heart is in Sora, then shouldn't it have been forced out in Kingdom Hearts I when Sora used the Keyblade of the People's Hearts like Kairi's and his own were? Following that, shouldn't that have created a Nobody as well?