Editing Talk:Vanitas

{{archive box|
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 1|Archive 1]] - November 05, 2009
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 2|Archive 2]] - January 20, 2010
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== Vanitas and the Unversed ==

{{Xiggie|time=01:07, January 10, 2010 (UTC)|talk=Does anyone think that Vanitas is the cause of the Unversed "plague"? I mean, it seems to me that he is controlling them... as seen [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19T44rIvHHE here]. If anyone understands what the two are talking about... please enlighten us!}}

{{TFO|time=20:46, September 13, 2009 (UTC)|Leon=I was shocked. I don't get why he looks like Sora. Saying he's Ven's darkness makes sense but I doubt that's all there is to it. If he is physically related to anyone I would say Master Xehanort. But about a new game. Did any one watch the secret ending but me? It said Reconnect Kingdom Hearts. I'm not suggesting that's what the new game shall be called but I mean that's the basis. It's all in the secret ending already on youtube. I didn't mean to sound snippy!}}

{{Randomnessity|text=No clue what they're saying, but it does seem that Vanitas has some kind of control over the Unversed. And on that boss battle, his health seemed shockingly low when that's gotta be late in Ven's storyline.}}

The Unversed appear to be the creation of Vanitas, who is the creation of Master Xehanort (with Ventus' help). Vanitas, being made of all of the Darkness that was extracted from Ventus' Heart, is possibly the first Unversed. The Unversed, as you know, are considered the opposite of human life. In the KH Universe, humans are denizens of the Realm of Light. Vanitas, though extracted from a human, is pure Darkness and therefore cannot be a denizen of Light. Thus making him a human from the Realm of Darkness, which would overall make Vanitas a sort of 'anti-human', or the opposite of Human life. Because Vanitas is comprised only of Darkness, it is implied that he would have some control over it and could even influence the Darkness into consciousness and form as the Unversed.[[User:XYZach|XYZ.]] 05:22, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting theory, but could you at least sign it? Raven's wing 11:52, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

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|sig=It is the fate of a Nobody...And a Heartless...Anyone who gets in the way really...
|time=''An entity shrouded in mystery...And idioms''
|text=Hmmm, an intersting theory. But, if what you say is true, then that would make Xeanorts (not sure if I spelled that right) Heartless in the same family as Vanitas. But he's a Heartless, so would that make Vanitas a difrent breed of Heartless? Very puzzuling indeed. That would make it that there could possubly another uprising, yes?
}}

{{DDark|time=[[User:D.Dark.|D.Dark.]] 02:24, January 11, 2010 (UTC)|text=It kinda makes sense. Ansem (Xehanort's heartless..or Terra's heartless)= Heartless,Organization XIII =Nobody, Vanitas = Unversed(maybe). Alright Ansem is a heartless but has a human form, the organization is comprised of nobodies but they also have human forms (tough it was explained because they had like extra strong hearts or something)and Vanitas is maybe an Unversed and has human form. See the connection? Looks to me that people with extra strong hearts (Xehanort/Terra for example) can make heartless and nobodie in human form. Since we arent really sure about everything with the Unversed i cant say anything about Vanitas really. But it seems to me there are like ranks for these beings. Heartless = Shadows,Stronger Heartless,Boss Heartless and heartless like "Ansem". Nobody = Dusks/Creepers,stronger nobodies,even stronger ones (Twilight Thorn), the organization (cause they have human form), Unversed = The Unversed version of the Shadow heartless,stronger unversed,boss unversed (wheel master), Vanitas. So? Anything sparked in your brain? }}

{{Randomnessity|text=Well it is known that Unversed are the opposite of human life and Vanitas is the darkness of Ventus or in other words his opposite. So it ''could'' be very well possible that Vanitas is the first Unversed.}}

{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=00:49, July 24, 2010 (UTC)|text= I have to agree with D.Dark, that is some great logic.}}

== Story ==

{{Randomnessity|talk=Ok. What the heck happened to the story section?}}

I'm wondering if we're allowed to actually start putting in the story information or do we have to wait for the English release for that? [[User:Lavaros|Lavaros]]
{{Randomnessity|text=Well they want people to be careful for what they put on the page. In other words the poster must be absolutely, 100%, perfectly sure that what happened is exactly what happened, with a spoiler template added. And the literary part of the edit must be immaculate as well. In other words an important chunk of the story will be added when it comes out in English.}}

I kind of saw that with 358/2 Days- but at this point, the important parts should be coming soon? There's likely some one out there who got the ISO(I do not endorse this option >..>) or bought the game who will eventually give information and clear up some of the confusion regarding why Vanitas looks like Sora because all I've seen so far is guess work. [[User:Lavaros|Lavaros]]
{{Randomnessity|text=The majority of us here know all of the important things that happen. They're all over the talk pages. It's just a matter when we get a valid translation.}}

That will take awhile, especially with all the people flooding the stream plays, I think some of the pages can start to be edited soon enough though, maybe not the story section, but Terra's, Aqua's and Ventus' Keyblades and Gameplay sections. [[User:Lavaros|Lavaros]]

{{Randomnessity|text=Oh, the Keyblades and gameplay are well under way. It just takes some work and translating. The story is much more difficult and complicated.}}

Indeed, it really looks like Nomura decided to pull a Hideo Kojima on us. [[User:Lavaros|Lavaros]]

{{Randomnessity|text=Yeah. And you don't have to type in your username everytime. You can just press the signature button above the edit box and that will take care of it. It's the button with the cursive writing.}}

{{Lavaros|time=04:34, January 12, 2010 (UTC)|text=Lucky me then, I've been given a fancy box by JFHavoc. Makes things so much easier (just copy and paste it really.) On the topic of Vanitas though, do we know if he survived within Ventus or sent in to Sora (explaining the resemblance.}}
{{KrytenKoro|Even if Vanitas is inside Sora (and we do know there is some darkness within him), Sora was already a 4-year old kid during this game, and he looked mostly as he does now, just shorter. Really, it's seeming more and more like Nomura made a huge mess out of this situation.}}

{{One-Winged Angel|time= 22:43 January 11,2010|text=I think I figured it out but it's confusing. Master Eraqus told Ven he wasn't supposed to exist. It makes sense I guess if you think Ven was supposed to stay a part of Sora's heart because in the secret ending, Ven tells Sora he has to join with his heart again. Adding to this infomation, Vanitas is supposed to be the darkness extracted from Ven's heart. So if Vanitas is the darkness of Ven's heart, and the latter was a part of Sora's heart, it would make sense that Vanitas would look like Sora(except older).}}

{{Lavaros|time=08:01, January 12, 2010 (UTC)|text=Well that makes things a little bit clearer, and so far, Terra's connection to Riku is that he chose him to be a Keyblade wielder one day? (possibly wanting to take him on as an apprentice, I think?) And Kairi's connection to Aqua is... that she talked to her one time?}}

{{KKD|time=22:52, January 19, 2010 (UTC)|sora=Kryten: He had light hair as a 4 year old, dark hair as a 14 year old (until he stabbed himself) and light hair again n COM and KHII. coincidence? I think not.}}

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|text=I've been wondering about why Sora's hair suddenly changed color. I thought that it had something to do with Namine's memory pods or something--[[User:Sacul097|Sacul097]] 01:14, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
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== Vanitas's story section ==

So, can anyone link to the translations of the game, please? Since apparently the entire story has been fan-dubbed somewhere?[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 13:57, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
:I've marked the section with tags for citation. Unless links to reliable, first-hand translations can be provided, the material will be deleted. As it is, the section looks like it was probably written by someone who could ''not'' read the script, and was simply describing the scenes, which is ''what we all agreed we wouldn't do.''[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 19:37, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

== Chronologically ==

{{Randomnessity|text=I just watched the battle between Aqua and Vanitas/Ventus and I saw that Kingdom Hearts was still in the sky. This is Aqua's last battle in her storyline and this battle happens after Ven's final battle with Vanitas. So since Kingdom Hearts is still in the sky that means Terra is still battling MX correct.

That would make the chronological order of the final bosses, Ven vs. Vanitas, Aqua vs. Ven/Vanitas, Lingering Sentiment Terra vs. Terranort, and then finally the very final boss against Terranort in Radiant Garden.

Is that the correct order or did I miss something?}}

{{Venkix|text= You forgot the secret final boss}}
{{Randomnessity|text=Who would that be?}}


{{Venkix|text=An unversed/absent soihuotte vanitas. only fought by aqua. Go to the section above called "secret boss" to watch the video}}
{{Randomnessity|text=I remember him but who knows when that fight is chronologically fought. Oh, and apparently he can be fought by all of them, not just Aqua. It's just easier to unlock him in Aqua's story.}}

{{Venkix|text= I stand correct then. But doesnt she fight him AFTEr you beat the game? So chronilogically, that was the last boss right?}}
{{Randomnessity|text=Well he may appear after you beat the game, or after you accomplish some feat, but that doesn't mean he is fought after the game chronologically. Just like the Lingering Sentiment, Kurt Zisa, the Phantom, Ice Titan, and Sephiroth. If the fights are considered canon they do happen before the final boss.}}

{{Lavaros|time=20:15, January 13, 2010 (UTC)|text=I don't think Secret bosses count towards the story line at all, all of them are just extra's too be found. So I don't think Vanitas Sentiment would ever actually of happened.}}
{{Randomnessity|text=Well except for KHII Sephiroth and maybe the Lingering Sentiment. I'm positive the Sephiroth stuff in KHII happened because of the cutscenes, and the LS battle because it would be pretty important.}}
{{KrytenKoro|The fact that Xion references Kurt Zisa is just one example indicating that ''all'' sidequests are canon.}}
{{Randomnessity|text=Good point, but that could be a reference to the world itself. I mean scimitars are used in that kind of place. She just happened to have four. I'm not disagreeing with you though. It's just when would some of these happen? Why would Sora take a little rest stop to go to Agrabah, Olympus Coliseum, and Neverland, when he's gotta stop the worlds from being destroyed by everyone's favorite psychopathic Heartless?}}
{{KrytenKoro|Well, canonically, he ''did'' take rest-stops at Olympus Coliseum, to challenge and defeat all of the cups, at least up to Hades. ''Days'' provides physical evidence for that. Then the side-jaunt to Hollow Bastion to fight Xemnas is canon as well.

I'm guessing he did these because he wanted to check on his friends, or needed to train.}}
{{Randomnessity|text=But how did Leon and Yuffie end up at the cups? I think the only canon fights at the cups are the Cloud, Hercules, Hades, Titans, and maybe Sephiroth matches. Just my opinion.

And can you fight Xemnas the time you return to Hollow Bastion to seal the Keyhole and defeat the Behemoth? Or is it until after that when he appears? If he appears when you return for the Keyhole, that was probably when Sora fought him.

And checking up on his friends when the universe is in danger would be something Sora would do.}}
:The Platinum Match doesn't seem to be canon, since Sephiroth and Sora act as if they've never met in KH2.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 22:19, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

{{Randomnessity|text=I didn't really think so either. That's why I put maybe.}}

{{Lavaros|time=22:51, January 13, 2010 (UTC)|text=I think that the fight with Sephiroth in Kingdom Hearts 2 will count (even though it's optional), but I don't think that the fight with him in Kingdom Hearts does, as for the Ice Titan, Kurt Zisa and The Phantom, it's kind of hard to see why he would come back to Agrabah or Neverland once he thought it was okay when he was so close to getting Riku back and getting home.}}
{{KrytenKoro|The Sephiroth bit, maybe, although it's not like they sat down and had tea or anything. However, ''all'' of the Phil through Hades cups are canon, since the scoreboards, which list each seed, are still up in ''Days''.

Because of this, and because once you start excluding cutscenes for canon status, it can get pretty hairy, I think the best solution is just to consider the entire games canon - it's not like Sephiroth and Sora being unfamiliar is the greatest of the plot holes in the series. We can then just comment when a plot hole appears.}}
{{Venkix|text= Both thoeries are interesting. But has anyone know what happens after you beat the unversed Vanitas? do yuo get an item? possibly another cutscene?}}
{{Randomnessity|text=Has anyone even beaten him yet? In all the videos I've seen no one has even layed a finger on him.}}

{{Venkix|text= Me too, but has anyone been able to beat it? Does anyone knows what happens? I know it has to be something good because that bosss honestly rapes....}}
{{Randomnessity|text=Or they might pull a KH Sephiroth on us and leave us with nothing after all the hard work.}}

{{Lavaros|time=00:38, January 14, 2010 (UTC)|text= A friend of mine has Birth By Sleep, when he tries to beat Vanitas Sentiment, I'll ask if he can record it?}}
:There's no reason for the million empty lines. Anyway, the real problem is that, apparently, Vanitas requires a very specific deck to defeat. Or so says Nomura.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 00:40, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
{{Randomnessity|text=Deck?}}
{{Venkix|text= Yes lavaros, that would be nice. Randomnesity you could be right. But when you beat Sephiroth, didn't you at least get One-Winged angel? It's been so long I can't remember.}}
:'''There's no reason for the million empty lines.''' Anyway Randomnessity, yeah, you set up techniques sort of like a deck.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 00:45, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
{{Randomnessity|text=I see. I never read the gameplay sections. Wanted to learn as I went along. And maybe they never disabled the RTE?

EDIT: You only get the One Winged Angel in FM.}}

The prize is nothing special and certainly not as cool as the one winged angel keyblade.[[User:Hirokey123|Hirokey123]] 05:14, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

{{Key-blade master|time=02:23, January 31, 2010 (UTC)|text=I believe when you beat the lingering sentiment vanitas all you get is some very special, synthesis item. i'm not too sure though.}}

== Just a question... *spoilers* ==

How the heck did all of that hair fit into Vanitas's helmet!?! [[User:Keyblade474|Keyblade474]] 16:19, January 31, 2010 (UTC)


{{Oddishh
|text = because Vanitas' magical hair can bend and sway whatever way it pleases without showing under the helmet. that's how KH physics work, silly. xDDD
}}<br />
If this game had realistic physics, we shouldn't have been able to recognize Sora's head under the helmet. The helmet hair would have made him completely unrecognizable.

I also enjoyed Square's convenient "only showing his eyes" as his helmet is taken off. I kind of would have enjoyed seeing his hair just go POOF and appear... Yes, this entire post was completely relevant. [[Special:Contributions/72.77.96.235|72.77.96.235]] 06:40, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Well wouldn't it be just like Ansem the Wise's bandages as DiZ. The darkness changes his skin colour and eye colour as well as covered all his hair. So The same thing goes for Vanitas' mask, it just isn't explained how darkness does things like anti poof.
([[User:Leviathan657|Leviathan657]] 01:29, July 10, 2010 (UTC))

== Connection With Riku ==

{{HeartFallout|time=02:59, February 3, 2010 (UTC)|text=Anyone have any theories how Vanitas is connected to Riku? They have the same battle stance/Organic suit}}
:That's...pretty much it. Xehanort/the darkness just likes to recycle outfits.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 04:51, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

{{Xabryn|text=Does riku have the same Battle stance as Vanitas before the destruction of DI?i mean on the battle he seem more on the defensive and he hold the toy sword with only one hand so i'm not sure.}}

== Enough! ==

{{Naruto195|time=[[User:Naruto195|Naruto195]] 06:04, February 10, 2010 (UTC)|angry=This page needs be protected or something. Its annoying for people to have to keep reverting posts made by people who have no sources as to the Trivia and Voice acting part.}}
{{NeutraVega|I completely agree.  This HJO bullshit really needs to stop, and this article (along a plethora of others) just need a strong dosage of lockage for a good while.}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=It is kinda annoying.}}
{{Randomnessity|text=I had to revert that particular edit from two different anons in the vicinity of two minutes. I think it should be user blocked.}}
{{Naruto195|time=[[User:Naruto195|Naruto195]] 00:08, February 13, 2010 (UTC)|angry=Late reply but thanks for agreeing. Anyone know any way to do that?}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=The only one who can protect a page are admins. Talk to KrytenKoro.}}
{{Naruto195|time=[[User:Naruto195|Naruto195]] 00:15, February 13, 2010 (UTC)|angry=Hmm alright,I'll ask. In the mean time,lets keep this page fine}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Right.}}

== Universal Chaos...? ==

{{NeutraVega|Where do people come up with this crap...?  And the fact that he took the time to write all that out, only for it to be deleted in a minute...  Just...wow.}}
{{Randomnessity|text=Some people think this can be used for fanon as well. At least that's what I think.}}
{{NeutraVega|Isn't there an entirely separate wiki for that kind of nonsense?}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Now, now. Calm down, you two discussed this calmly, all right?}}
{{Randomnessity|text=@NeutraVega:Indeed there is. A lot of anon don't know that. That doesn't give them the right to add all of their fanon ideas to this wiki. There should be a headline somewhere that states this wiki does not support fanon ideas. 

@NinjaShiek:Don't worry. I never lose my calm in a conversation.}}
{{LapisScarab|time=21:01, February 16, 2010 (UTC)|text=That is a very good idea. If there were a headline like that, it should probably have a link to the Kingdom Hearts Fanon Wiki of it. That otta divert a lot of (though not all, let's be honest) the fanon ideas.}}



== And he looks like Sora because... ? ==

I breezed through this page and for some reason could not find a reason for his likeness to Sora. What's up wit that? Because he was born with his helmet on, I'd assume that he would look like Ventus. But I guess Ventus' Heart linking with Sora's could have effected Vanitas' appearance, but that's just me trying to understand it.. What is the game's explanation and why isn't it listed here?[[User:XYZach|XYZ.]] 05:19, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

he doesn't born with his helmet but his head isn't showed and if you think well it is sora that looks like him, but i don't know why thy're so alike--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 21:56, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

You're kind of right. Initially, when Vanitas is first materializing, you do not see all of his head, but you can see his metallic jaw guard thing. However, by the end of his birth scene you do see that he is wearing the helmet.[[User:XYZach|XYZ.]] 05:19, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

{{LA|Vtext=Hmm... I'll have to review the scene for confirmation of that, but Vanitas was definately born unmasked.

I am really wondering this too. It is clear that Sora connected his heart to Ventus ''after'' Vanitas was born. Either Ventus and Sora have an even ''deeper'' connection (like, brothers or something), or we difinetely missed something.

Although there is a theory that it is the other way around. Sora looks like Vanitas, not Vanitas looks like Sora. It is Vanitas's existnace (and appearance) and Ventus and Sora's connected heart that caused ''Sora'' to end up looking like Vanitas. Crazy, I know, but it is the only theory that makes sense. (besides the the whole Ventus and Sora "brothers" speculation).}}
:When we saw Sora, he already looked like a mini version of old Sora, and Sora's mom would have noticed if he suddenly changed faces. It also doesn't make sense that Vanitas looks nothing like Ventus. However, do we know what world Ventus is from? It could be possible that they ''are'' brothers, though.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 15:46, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
{{neumannz|time=17:33, March 24, 2010 (UTC)|text=I don't like the idea of adding a "long-lost sibling" concept to the story, so I'd rather just assume that Vanitas's face was influenced by Sora after Ven & Sora were connected. What Vani looked like before, we can only guess. Hopefully the Ultimania will give a more satisfactory answer.<br><br>EDIT: Well, Heartstation.org has put up a complete interview with Nomura from the Ultimania [http://heartstation.org/?p=2097], and it looks like I was more or less right. Sora's heart being used to heal Ventus's heart caused Vanitas's face to look like him. To quote from the interview, "as a result of Sora’s influence on those damaged parts, Vanitas’ face changed into the same as Sora’s. Therefore if Riku was supplementing the missing parts of Ventus’ heart, Vanitas’ face would likely look like Riku."}}

Even though it's Word Of God, it still has me skeptical since Sora wasn't even born when Vanitas was created. Ventus looked around KH1 Sora's age at the time. Sooo....yeeeeah.........why is Sora Jesus all of a sudden? [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 21:38, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
:True, but like I said, we have no idea what Vani's face looked like when he was born. Almost certainly he didn't look like Sora right off the bat. Since he was a fragment of Ven's heart, it's possible his face was damaged/featureless/a warped version of Ven's. I think it's safe to say his face was changed into its final appearance, though. Also, I don't understand your Jesus comment. --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 21:51, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, if Ven was the same age as Sora in KH1 when Vanitas was made(14) then Sora would have been 3. This is of course assuming that Ventus is 15 during BBS.  --Evnyofdeath 20:06, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Everyone's suddenly treating him like some kinda savior all of a sudden. D: Yes, I know he's connected, but he and Aqua never even met and Ansem doesn't remember and Terra didn't give two craps about him. So why? D: [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 21:54, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

{{Oddishh|text= From BBS Ultimania::

Nomura: I knew that Ventus should look either like Sora or Roxas, and I wasn’t sure which one to go with, but I thought Vanitas looking like Sora would have a bigger impact so I had Ventus look like Roxas instead. And there is a reason that Vanitas looks like Sora. As Sora filled in Ventus’ fractured heart, the fractured part (Vanitas) was effected by Sora and ended up with Sora’s face. So if it had been Riku who had filled in Ventus’ heart, Vanitas would have looked like Riku. 

Case closed.}}

Yeeeah, someone already beat you to it. However, it didn't answer my question one bit XD [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 22:15, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
{{neumannz|time=22:28, March 25, 2010 (UTC)|text=Weeeell, your question about Sora being everyone's savior isn't exactly relevant to the question of Vani's face.<br><br>As for why Sora is in this situation, well, pretty much all the events led up to this point, and really there are only 4 people connected to Sora. He won't really be a "savior" to anyone else, though obviously we'll see him saving the realm of light, but he's done that before so it shouldn't make so much of a difference.}}

{{Oddishh|text= FACT: Sora is a normal boy whose only 'power' is the ability to connect his hearts with others. This isn't neccessarily a unique trait, either, as there are probably others with this ability. His Keyblade wielding and abilities rely solely on Ventus. Yes, he may house a lot of hearts, but that doesn't make him a Savior. Sure, he's a hero. But, when you come down to the core, he's just your typical kid. This was pretty much said right-out in Ultimania also.}}

{{Xabryn|text=It still don't explain why he have some similarities with Riku and please don't say that it is because of Xehanort's Heartless cuz i'm sick of this theory}}
{{neumannz|time=23:40, March 25, 2010 (UTC)|text=Actually, I'd bet the bodysuit probably was influenced by Xehanort's Heartless. As for the fighting stance, well, big deal. It's a fighting stance. It's not like two people can't use the same stance. I don't think there were any other real similarities.}}
{{Xabryn|text=Riku got the Dark Mode before XH and tell me one character that have a battle stance from another character that besides Riku and Vanitas
Edit:And i don't think tha MX created the bodysuit the Vanitas wear he only take the darkness from Ventus's heart and it appeared}}
If I remember right, XH made contact with Riku on Destiny Islands. As for battle stances, it doesn't matter that others don't share the same stance (except Roxas, Xion, and Sora, but they don't count), it doesn't make it impossible for 2 unrelated people to have the same stance. The fact is, Vani was designed to have parallels with Riku, but none of the similarities can't be explained as a coincidence. (Does he have the same fighting style even?) I honestly don't know if there's an actual reason for the bodysuit being similar, but it's not a huge deal. --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 23:57, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

I like how people haven't attempted to answer my first question regardin' Vanitas. [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 00:44, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
:About Sora being Jesus? I recommend taking the question somewhere else, like a forum page. This is supposed to be a page to discuss info for Vani's article, and your question seems to be too subjective for Sora's article talk page. --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 00:50, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
:EDIT: Wait, you had a question about Vanitas? Where? What was it? --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 00:53, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

'Even though it's Word Of God, it still has me skeptical since Sora wasn't even born when Vanitas was created. Ventus looked around KH1 Sora's age at the time. So how?' [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 01:16, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
{{neumannz|time=01:26, March 26, 2010 (UTC)|text=Um... I did answer that. Vani didn't look like Sora when he was born. His face changed afterwards. It follows from what Nomura said.}}

Must I repeat myself? Must pay closer attention. Ventus' heart wasn't repaired until he was taken to Destiny Islands. He was still just a kid at the time. x: [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 01:36, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
:What is the question? Why doesn't Vanitas look like young Sora? "How" what? Say the question clearly and explicitly if you want an answer. --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 01:40, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

The question is: How could Sora have possibly had a coherent influence on Ventus' heart if he was not even born? The keyword 'How'? Why I ask how? Ventus was around KH1 Sora's age when Vanitas was created and when he was placed on Destiny Islands by Master Xehanort which was where he was 'repaired'. That is my question. I'm pretty sure I was very clear the first time. [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 02:07, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
:You were not. You never said the question straight out. Sora ''didn't'' have an influence before he was born. He was born the night MX brought Ven to the islands, if I remember correctly what happened during Ven's Awakening. Sora's newly born heart connected with Ven's broken heart to heal it. That was when he started influencing Ven's heart. Does that make sense? --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 02:15, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Not. One. Bit. [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 02:29, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
:Well, in that case I gotta say, live with it. --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 02:30, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
And after reviewing Vanitas' birth scene, I can say for sure that he has his helmet on.[[User:XYZach|XYZ.]] 05:03, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry if this is redundant, but the reason Vanitas looks like Sora is because after the Darkness was extraced from Ven's Heart, the voice/Heart that connected to it was Sora's. Even though Vanitas was a seperate being, he was still dependant on Ven (I assume this because Ven was dependant of Vanitas, for after Vanitas was destroyed, Ven's Heart faded away), and because of Vens connection to Sora, Vanitas took on an altered version of Sora's teenage appearance. At least, this is what I've drawn from several others.  --Evnyofdeath 20:04, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Vanitas must like to hear himself talk.. ==

After looking through the Birth by Sleep section of the page I noticed that Vanitas 'reveals' his birth from Ventus' heart twice, both times to Ventus. The first time this is mentioned is in the 5th paragraph. This is when Ventus and Vanitas meet on Destiny Island. I've seen the scene and agree that Vanitas definitely spills the beans here. But then in the 7th paragraph it says that after Vanitas reveals his face he tells Ventus that he is the Darkness of Ven's heart. Did Ventus not get the idea the first time? I believe that whoever added that meant to state that this is where Vanitas takes credit for the Unversed.[[User:XYZach|XYZ.]] 06:27, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

== Wait what? ==

"Master Xehanort then proceeded to use his Keyblade to unlock Ventus's heart, resulting in Vanitas's formation. The dark enigma, who appeared from an orb of dark energy, would be the source of the Unversed as well as a key component in Master Xehanort's plans." Does this mean Vanitas is master of the Unversed?[[User:Innosense|Innosense]] 21:25, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Yes.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 21:26, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

== Enough ==

{{NeutraVega|Wasn't it decided, like...I dunno, about five dozen times now, that secret concept videos aren't canon material?  How many times more must we reach that decision for people to get the hint?}}

== Ultimania ==

The ''Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep Ultimania'' does not classify Vanitas as an Unversed. He is classified as a non-Unversed enemy, as is his sentiment, Terra, Zack, and Master Xehanort, among others. I do not think that Vanitas is an Unversed for several reasons; for example, Vanitas does not bear the Unversed logo, as all Unversed do. In addition, Vanitas was not created as a product of Vanitas's abilities, as the Unversed were, but instead was created from being seperated from Ventus, which ''caused'' the Unversed to begin appearing. Vanitas's status as an Unversed or non-Unversed needs to be decided on; if there is any reasoning as to why you think Vanitas is an Unversed, please leave it here so that it may be brought into conversation. By doing this, we will be able to make a sourced and informed decision on whether this article belongs in the "Unversed" category or not. --{{User:DoorToNothing/Sig}} 06:47, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas can still technically be considered an Unversed. The Flood don't have the crest, but they're still called as such. In addition, Vanitas is the physical manifestation of another person's primal force and embodies everything associated with that force, even moreso than Xehanort and his incarnations ever did. It's safe to say he is the king Unversed. Without him, they wouldn't exist, so when he went, so did they. Like I said in the previous talk page, I'm not sure the Ultimania is entirely correct. [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 07:01, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas isn't a Unversed, i knew that since the beginning but i agree with Kaihedgie, he is the king Unversed so he can be considered one even if the ultimania says it isn't{{User:Xabryn/Sig}}

== VanitasBeingAJerk.png ==

{{LA|Vhappy=I know the only reason we're keeping that Vanitas breaking the Wooden Keyblade image down there is because it has the best name of any image here on the wiki...}}

== Reorganization ==

This article is a mess. Images are everywhere. Sections are written poorly or with very choppy sentences or bad grammar. If anyone would like to help me as I expand/revise the article, please message me. I am going to leave the clean-up template now. - [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|EternalNothingnessXIII]] 19:12, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Sora's age when Vanitas was created ==

I got sick of reading that "Sora wasn't even born when Vanitas was created, because Ventus was KH1 Sora's age" If Ventus was KH1 Sora's age when Vanitas was created, that would mean Sora was 3 when Vanitas was created. This is of course assuming that Ventus is 15 during BBS.  --Evnyofdeath 20:21, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
:Sign your posts.
:Ven's Awakening indicates that Sora had just been born when M. Xehanort brought Ven to Destiny Islands. Assuming that happened a short time after Vani was created, Sora was most likely born after that, or not long before. (Anyway, that doesn't matter, since Sora definitely didn't connect with Ven until after Vani was created.)
:Also, where does it indicate how old Ventus is?  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 20:18, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
Okay, I hadn't heard that before. But wouldn't that mean Ven would be older? He looks the same age as Roxas was, meaning he would be around 15 during BBS, and because BBS takes place around 10 years before KH1, that would mean Sora would be 5, and since people are saying that Ven was 14(Sora's KH1 age) when Vanitas was created that would mean Sora would be around 4....this is so confusing......  --Evnyofdeath 20:24, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
:About 4 years past between Vani's creation and the main BBS storyline. Ven was CLEARLY younger when Vani was created. I'd say Ven was around 14 or 15 during the main storyline. Sora is 4. That's about all.  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 20:32, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
:Alright, thanks for clearing that up for me.  --Evnyofdeath 20:36, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Interesting Triva ==

{{Xelax|time=[[User:Xelax|Be a good boy now!]] 22:49, April 27, 2010 (UTC)|text=So, I was listening to the BbS soundtrack when I noticed something. Right before the song starts to repeat itself, an underscore comes in. That underscore is the song "Sora" with a different pitch and speed, play by a violin-sounding instrument. If you wanna hear it, it starts around 1:45 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Oi4QaqWoLA&feature=related. This is just another special way that Nomura connects Sora and Vanitas. }}

==Plan B==
I just saw a subbed version of what happen in aqua story after she fought Vanitas in Radiant Garden, he says that she is strong and that she would be his plan B then after leaving she tells her to become stronger. So i was thinking for create the X-Blade it is only necessary a heart of pure light(which aqua have) and a heart of pure darkness(as we know vanitas, so I was thinking maybe Aqua would be his plan B for create the X-Blade for the case of Ventus's heart keep weak. I know it look stupid but it kinda make sense so... what you guys think?--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 00:52, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

:I believe Nomura confirmed that Vanitas was indeed talking about using Aqua as a "spare" incase it didn't work with Ventus in an interview somewhere (check KHInsider, it should be a fairly recent link). And yup, it only has to be a heart of pure darkness and a heart of pure light to make the X-Blade. Doesn't matter who they're from. EDIT: Here's the link: [http://forums.khinsider.com/spoilers/147009-bbs-ultimania-plot-mysteries-nomura-interview.html]--'''''[[User:LapisScarab|<span style="color:navy;">Lapis of</span>]][[User talk:LapisScarab|<span style="color:darkred;">the Night</span>]]''''' 01:04, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
::When I clicked that link, it didn't take me anywhere, I just got a 'this site does not exist' thing  --Evnyofdeath 05:46, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Who would say that I say right for once, thanks Lapis--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 01:42, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

@Envyofdeath: Weird, it works when I click on it. Check the second archive on KHInsider's main page, and look for the headline about "Plot mysteries" if it still doesn't work.--'''''[[User:LapisScarab|<span style="color:navy;">Lapis of</span>]][[User talk:LapisScarab|<span style="color:darkred;">the Night</span>]]''''' 06:00, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
:Alright, thanks. My computer just has this weird habit if I click a link that doesn't lead to a site, I wind up at this site called desktop smily search........  --Evnyofdeath 06:03, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
That article really helped me explain many of the games plot points. Now I know why Aqua hesitated when she saw Sora. [[User:Naruto195|Naruto195]] 19:51, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

== Vanitas Thoughts ==

/Users/period1/Desktop/ucard.png
Hey! For all who don't know me, I am DialgaMan. I have a question. Does anyone know why Vanitas feels the need to make Ven stronger?

To create the X-Blade and become one again [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 14:32, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

You see, to create the X-blade you need two people with equal strength and hearts of pure light (Ventus) and darkness (Vanitas) but Ven used to be weaker than Vanitas so he needed to make him stronger so when they fight the X-blade would be created. Get it?--[[User:No.i|No.i]] 16:09, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

== A Pretty Useless Trivia ==

You know when Vanitas was defeated for the time by Aqua, his belt vanished but the shadow thingy of the belt is still there. Yeah it's a pretty dumb trivia.<font face=Times New Roman color=red>—</font>[[User:Roxas-X-Namine|<font face=Times New Roman color=gold>Wing</font>]][[User talk:Roxas-X-Namine|<font face=Times New Roman color=blue>Blade</font>]]

== Hayley Joe Osment for Vanitas ==

Obviously he hasn't been confirmed as a voice actor but if he is in the game does anyone believe he will voice Vanitas. Heck he made Sora sound a bit intimidating in Re Chain of memories so he should definetly be able to do the evil voice and laugh thing.
--[[User:Nathbud789|Nathbud789]] 00:58, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

If you listen to his voice closely in the E3 trailer, he does sound like Hayley, only with a lower voice. --[[User:BlazeStrife|BlazeStrife]] 07:22, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

== Is Vanitas really just a pawn? ==

Thanks Kaihedge and No.i for answering my question earlier. Now I have another. Why is Vanitas loyal to Master Xehanort? Surely a being of darkness such as Vanitas must have its own plans for victory? If not, does this mean that Vanitas was purposefully created by Master Xehanort this way so vanitas would be a pawn and no more? [[Special:Contributions/169.139.1.20|169.139.1.20]] 15:24, May 27, 2010 (UTC)DialgaMan, the master of Time

{{No.i|time=16:32, May 27, 2010 (UTC)|text=I think the reason Vanitas serves MX is because he is the darkness in Ventus' heart. And Ventus was already a servant to MX before Vanitas was even created. Besides, I don't think Vanitas is as strong as MX.}}

{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=01:24, July 24, 2010 (UTC)|text= Master Xehanort needed the legendary X-Blade to become one with Kingdom Hearts or something like that. To create the X-blade you'd need a heart of pure light (ven) and one of pure darkness (van). vanitas was created just to make the x-blade later on. so basically, yes he is just a pawn and nothing more. Like No.i said, i think Vanitas would've refused to do it, but MX is stronger than him.}}

==Trivia or Reference?==
The reason for Vanitas's naming is formatted in a way that could actually improve formatting of the article if the explanation beneath the trivia fact was changed to a note/reference. - <span>[[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|<font color="black">'''Eternal'''</font>]][[User talk:EternalNothingnessXIII|<font color="darkred">'''Nothingness'''</font>]][[User:EndlessOblivionKH/EO's Jukebox|<font color="dimgray">'''XIII'''</font>]]</span> 22:46, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

== Unversed? ==

{{Template:ST|time=13:21, June 1, 2010 (UTC)|text=So im looking throughout the wiki and i notice that everyone seems to agree that Vanitas is an unversed, but if he was born from the darkness in ventus's heart, wouldn't that make him a heartless?}}

Vanitas isn't an Unversed and he isn't a Heartless either.
His a human with a heart of pure darkness and is also made from complete darkness - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] 13:56, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Wrong. Vanitas does not have a heart. He was simply born from all of the darkness harbored in Ventus' heart, but that doesn't mean that he himself has one. We consider him an Unversed because his very origin, essence and nature says so, not to mention he spawned them. [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 15:12, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

{{Template:ST|time=11:35, June 1, 2010 (UTC)|text=Ah, but he DOES have a heart. remember, the X-blade is formed from to hearts, one of pure light and one of pure darkness, intersecting. How could Ventus and Vanitas formed the X-blade if Vanitas has no heart?}}

{{Maggosh|text=If a factory makes cars, does that make the factory a car? *smacks the wall* No, it does not. Just because someone created something doesn't put them in league with the same thing.}}

And yet, Vanitas did not release a heart upon his demise and while Ventus did. Yes the X-Blade is formed from hearts of light and dark. MX seems to have bypassed this by using the darkness of the heart to counteract with Ventus' now truly-pure light. heart You seem to have forgotten that the Unversed disappeared with Vanitas when he was vanquished. Vanitas and the Unversed are one in the same, and thus, in a previous section we called him the 'king' or 'first' Unversed [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 16:39, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

{{Maggosh|text=1. Now that's just pure speculation.
2. A being of pure darkness ≠ an Unversed.}}

1: I saw no heart release when he died
2: ''They are considered "the opposite of human life" and grow from the negative emotions produced when Vanitas  was distilled from Ventus.'' Negative emotions=darkness. [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 17:13, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

{{Maggosh|text=No, negative emotions ≠ darkness. If you mean negative emotions ''influence'' darkness, then yes.}}

Negative emotions have always resulted in darkness, we've seen it Riku, Master Xehanort and Terra, three very noble and strong people. Vanitas is literally darkness incarnate, exhibiting all of the traits associated with darkness users and is in ways, a plague. [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 17:28, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas isn't a Unversed he is not made of negative emotions, he is not a heartless but it is similar to one, he have the dark half of Ventus's heart and negative emotions create darkness but they're not darkness, besides if we're going to cosidere Vanitas something a heartless is the best choice, he is created in a similar way to Sora's heartless, have a body and a heart made fully of darkness and the yellow eyes that are usually connected to darkness but are mainly in heartless (P.S.:I'm not saying that we should just saying that it would make more sense that putting that it is an Uversed)--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 23:30, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

The dude IS made of negative emotions. He's shown to be more haughty, rude and downright cruel than any of the incarnations of Xehanort. Master Xehanort used to be a good guy and during a couple of flashbacks, we do see some of his good-sided nature. Xemnas still longed for a heart and some of Terra influenced him to a degree. He's pure evil and doesn't even have any remorse for the things he's done. This is the same boy who wouldn't even hesitate to turn on his own master, and given the circumstances, if Vanitas and Master Xehanort had succeeded in defeating Terra, Ven and Aqua, Vanitas would have undoubtedly turned on his master and continue to spread his darkness across the universe.

If Vanitas was a Heartless, then Xehanort's Heartless would have been able to spawn Unversed as well. The circumstances between the births of ''Ansem'' and Vanitas were different. Xehanort went through the same split transformation any other Organization member went through: he lost his heart to the darkness and was given form, becoming a Heartless while his body lingered on to become a Nobody. Vanitas was created from the darkness residing in Ventus. Mind you Ventus was able to retain his heart and didn't vanish as a result, but the extraction undoubtedly messed his sh*t up since his heart experienced a sudden inbalance now that he no longer had darkness so calling him a Heartless is far off. [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 23:48, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that you get what I'm trying to say, he isn't a heartless but is more similar to the heartless than to the Unversed, so it would make more sense to say in the articles that he is a heartless and he is made of Ventus's heart dark side not of negative emotions, he feels because he have a heart but he only have negative feeling because his heart don't have any light and i guess, I'm not saying that it is, that even heartless have a light that never goes out, just like every heart have a dark part,Ventus and the 7 pincess are exception just like Vanitas is to the other part which i think that caused the Unversed to appear, but they are confusing, what I know is that Vanitas isn't a Unversed he isn't a heartless and he is not made of negative emotions--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 00:06, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
::Maybe Ventus just wasn't the greatest guy before the Neoshadows jumped him? I mean, Sora had enough darkness in him to become a Shadow when his heart was taken, instead of going catatonic like Kairi, while Ventus was about to full-on die. Especially with a teacher like Xehanort, it's possible that Xehanort encouraged the darkness to grow in Ventus, just like he later did with Terra, but Ventus didn't have enough remaining light for it to survive on its own.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 02:20, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Ventus seemed like a pretty sweet kid and Master Xehanort was a pretty good fellow still. Getting Ventus to use the darkness as a weapon was about as likely as Vanitas preaching about Light. It's pretty much an established fact that everyone is born with both light and darkness in their hearts, no matter how good-natured they are. Kairi is the exception because she is a Princess of Heart; no darkness. [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 03:10, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

{{NeutraVega|I'm pretty sure the interviews, Ultimania AND in-game cutscenes more or less confirmed that the Unversed are part of him - extensions of himself.  Which effectively makes ''him'' the Unversed.}}

{{Template:ST|time=19:51, June 2, 2010 (UTC)|text=Just because he made them does not mean he is one. flowers make pollen. As Maggosh mentioned above, just because a factory makes cars does not make the factory a car (good analogy, by the way) EDIT: or better put this way. blood is part of our beings. does that make us ourselves blood itself?}}

{{Xabryn|text=If i remember well the Unverseds are extexions of <big>Vanitas's feelings</big> not his own, Vanitas isn't a Unversed}}

The cutscenes don't suggest anything and I can trust the Ultimania as about as far as I can throw it. We consider him an Unversed because, as I've said before his very nature and origin heavily implies he is so and when he died, they went with him. [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 21:27, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

{{Xabryn|text=I'm pretty sure that the cutscene in the english version will say about HIS NEGATIVE EMOTIONS
[http://forums.khinsider.com/spoilers/147009-bbs-ultimania-plot-mysteries-nomura-interview.html]
:'''Nomura: That's right. The Heartless are born from the darkness of the heart, and <big>Unversed are born from negative emotions</big>, so you can call them relatives (laughs). To make them fundamentally similar, we made the designs similar. However there's one difference in that the Heartless are seeking hearts, whereas the Unversed behave according to Vanitas' will, and emotionally. For example, the Flood portray feelings of irritation'''
His nature is nature is similar to the Unversed because they're part of his negaive emotions and how is Vanitas origin any similar to the Unverseds? Also when he dies the Unverseds go with them because they a f***** part of him}}

{{NeutraVega|It's been ''confirmed'' that he's an Unversed.  End of story.  I don't care about analogies or car factories.  And a small sidenote....he didn't ''create'' the Unversed.  He ''is'' the Unversed.  Now drop it.}}

{{Template:ST|time=19:51, June 2, 2010 (UTC)|text=who comfirmed him to be an unversed? besides. as we have said before, unversed are made out of negative emotions, he is spawned from actual darkness. difference}}

{{Xabryn|angry=It wasn't confirmed in anywhere you're just supposing after all you said it yourself
''the interviews, Ultimania AND in-game cutscenes '''more or less''' confirmed that the Unversed are part of him - extensions of himself.'' 
In other words we don't have an actual confirmation but the link that i showed early proof that the Unverseds are extensions of Vanitas's negative emotions, even though it is a fan translation it's the better confirmation we have, and I bet that the english version will show it too}}

I would like to stress a point with that bad analogy with Vanitas and a factory;

When you wreck a factory, the creations that spawn from it will not magically collapse. They still work just fine. When Vanitas dies, the Unversed die. A car is not an extension of a factory. [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 02:37, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

{{NeutraVega| And in that case, when a 99% confirmation ain't even, we have this thing called COMMON SENSE!  Vanitas CONFIRMED, in his own dialog, that Unversed are extensions of himself - limbs.  The whole car factory thing is retarded - when a car is assembled, is it ''still part of that factory''?  Once again, this debate is over.}}

{{Maggosh|text=Whatever, Mr. Six.}}

{{Xabryn|text=How many time I'll have to repeat The unversed are extensions of Vanitas's feeling not of Vanitas himself, did someoen read what I wrote early? [http://forums.khinsider.com/spoilers/147009-bbs-ultimania-plot-mysteries-nomura-interview.html]
:'''Nomura: That's right. The Heartless are born from the darkness of the heart, and <big>Unversed are born from negative emotions</big>, so you can call them relatives (laughs). To make them fundamentally similar, we made the designs similar. However there's one difference in that the Heartless are seeking hearts, whereas the Unversed behave according to Vanitas' will, and emotionally. For example, the Flood portray feelings of irritation'''
Come on i said this many time just today and it seems that nobody saw it}}
{{KrytenKoro|This discussion isn't going anywhere. Let's just wait until the game is released in English, since they'll probably clarify it in the script there.}}

I have explained in a couple places that Vanitas is an Unverse, but only by technicality. In the KH Universe, humans are beings of the Realm of Light with hearts that are comprised of light and darkness. Legends within the series claim that at a time humans existed with hearts of pure light, but now only a select group of seven humans have this right.

The Unversed are beings of pure darkness and are extensions of Vanitas' negative emotions. Nomura himself has described them as the opposite of human life.

Vanitas is a human with a heart of pure darkness. Although he was extracted from another human, Vanitas' heart of darkness is his own (we know this to be true because the X-Blade can only be created when a heart of pure darkness and a heart of pure light intersect). However, as stated above, humans are denizens of the light and a being with a heart of pure darkness cannot be a denizen of the light. This makes Vanitas a human of the dark realm, or the opposite of human life. Again, this is only a technicality.--[[User:XYZach|XYZ.]] 18:37, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=01:39, July 24, 2010 (UTC)|text= First, Vanitas is '''not''' a Heartless. A Heartless is a heart that has been completely swallowed by darkness in any way. Vanitas, however, is just darkness ''extracted'' from Ven. I say Vanitas is an Unversed. Unversed are the opposite of human life, made up of negative emotions. Vanitas is the opposite of Ven's life, therefore the opposite of human life. He is also made of negative emotions (because he's rude and hateful). Also, Unversed didn't appear until Vanitas was born and disappeared when he was destroyed. It can't be coincidence.}}
{{ST|text=first off of course it's not a coincidence. Vanitas created the unversed and when they were destroyed they went back to him, so when he was destroyed they went with him. second off, no he was not made of negative emotions he was made from the darkness in ventus' heart, which is totally different}}

{{Falcos|text=Okay, this whole thing basically boiled down to "wait till it's out in english." Well, it's out in english, and, in english, Vanitas says, and I quote: ''"They are what I feel. A horde of fledgling emotions under my control."'' Point A: The Unversed are what Vanitas feels. I'm pretty sure that Vanitas isn't feeling particularly Vanitas right now. Point B: If he is an Unversed, and the Unversed are extensions of him, where did he come from? He came from Ven. So, if Unversed = extensions of Vanitas, and Vanitas is half of Ven's heart, Vanitas can't be an Unversed. Point C: To use another analogy, if a remote has control over a TV, does that make the remote a TV? No? Then how does him having control of the Unversed make him an Unversed? Sorry if I posted in the wrong place, and please tell me if I missed any points.}}

{{Xabryn|text=This is the right place (though the Unversed's page would be a good place too) and I don't think that you missed any points, you're right and Vanitas's isn't a unversed,. that's what me and other users above were trying to tell, but we have the english game I suppose that we're going to change it right?}}

{{Falcos|happy=I certainly hope so. Does this mean I can change it now?}}

I believe that (I just beat Ven's Story so this is fresh) Vanitas is a human. Ven was missing a part of his heart after Van was born, Correct? Where did that piece go...it didn't just vanish, now did it. It formed Vanitas. Vanitas has HALF of a heart where as Unversed have nothing. In the KH Canon I believe that if one has a heart that makes them human or a heartless and Van clearly isn't a heartless. As said before the closest thing to describe Vanitas is that he is a Human of the Dark Realm. This is one of the reasons I kinda stay away from wiki's A lot of the info is sometimes biases because one set of people believes one thing and another set believes another and It's almost always the Admins who are the ones who win in the end. They can lock pages and re-edit em faster than we can type em. But forgive me for I digress. Oh...and nevermind. [[User:Under The Heavens|Under The Heavens]] 17:54, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

:Because fansites run by a small team of site admins don't have that problem, right?[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 18:30, September 30, 2010 (UTC)
:Anyway, it's actually totally possible for him to be a Heartless that retained its human form, just like Ansem/Xehanort did. He's certainly made in much the same way as Sora's Heartless was.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 18:30, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

I think Vanitas and the Unversed are diffrent. Since Vanitas is Ventus's other half of the heart that holds darkness. Vanitas said that Unversed is an extension of himself. Yen Sid said the Unversed are a creature of negativy. That means the Unversed is a pieces of negative emotion of darkness. Or another way of saying Vanitas = Pure Darkness. Unversed = Pieces of Negativy that represent Darkness. --[[User:Cococrash11|Cococrash11]] 08:09, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

OK, I see all these analogies, and I think, "Huh?  did everyone here forget KHII's Hollow Bastion?  Saix?  Remember?  Saix could control Heartless even though he was a Nobody.  With this exception in mind, it makes sense that Vanitas doesn't have to be an Unversed to control the Unversed.  Or we could even go back to the VERY FIRST game, where we see Maleficent, Jafar, Ursula, Oogie Boogie, Captain Hook, and Riku controlling the Heartless, despite the fact that they were all whole persons.  Point: Vanitas is not an Unversed, he's really something we've actually never seen before--half of a heart, really.  Recall Ventus' Awakening at the very beginning of the game.  The chunk of his heart that "slipped away?"  That's Vanitas.  In the case of Ventus and Vanitas, two halves of the same whole compensated for two hearts because the one heart (ventus) was separated into two hearts (light = Ventus and dark = Vanitas).  Like some people have said, Vanitas is closer to a Heartless than an Unversed, but he's not technically a Heartless himself.  Actually, think of it this way: Riku in his dark form can be considered to be what would have happened if Ventus had accepted the darkness like Master Xehanort wanted.  Because Riku accepted the darkness, there was no need to extract it.  It's possible this is why Nomura made Vanitas' outfit nearly identical to Riku's Dark Mode.  [[User:Key of Destiny|Key of Destiny]] 16:21, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

==Dark Suit==
{{One-Winged Angel|time=17:18 June 1, 2010|Vanitas= {{spoiler}} A heart is made of both light and darkness, and Vanitas was created from the dark half of Ventus's heart. Ventus could not function with only a half of his heart (light), so Sora's heart connected with Ven's incomplete heart allowing the latter to function. So if Ventus could not function with half a heart, how could Vanitas, the dark half of Ven's heart? I believe Master Xehanort connected his heart with Vanitas the same way Sora did with Ven, and because of that, Riku's Dark Suit looks similar to Vanitas's when Xehanort's heartless's darkness enters Riku.


P.S. Since Vanitas is part of Ven's heart, and Ven's heart eventually enters Sora, it could be that Vanitas influences Sora's darkness such as Sora's smile when in AntiForm. If true, it would be interesting to see if later on Vanitas gains as big an influence over Sora as Xehanort's heartless had over Riku. {{spoilerend}} }}

It is an interesting theory and would explain things. Unfortunately, we don't really see any connecting of Vanitas' and Master Xehanort's hearts. We've never seen Vanitas actually having anything that could pass for a heart, much less releasing one upon his death. My theory is that the dark suit is a conscious fashioning of Master Xehanort. I don't think the suit has anything to do with the heart since the Riku Replica supposedly doesn't have a one. [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 01:23, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

{{One-Winged Angel|time=19:59 June 2, 2010|Vanitas= {{spoiler}} The Riku Replica had a fake heart, and could wear the suit because he was a replica of real Riku, who wore the suit. Anyway, if Ven couldn't operate with only half a heart, how could Vanitas when he was half a heart? Sora's heart was like a catalyst that allowed Ven's heart to be complete and I still think Master Xehanort acted as Vanitas's catalyst. If Xehanort's heartless gave Riku a dark suit when the heartless became part of Riku, then it makes sense that Vanitas got a dark suit because of the darkness in Master Xehanort once the bond took place. {{spoilerend}} }}

Yes you're right about Repliku and his fake heart but i guess that darkness act differently of light and i guess that it can be sustained alone. BTW I liked your Vanitas avatar--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 03:04, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

{{One-Winged Angel|time=20:13 Jubne 2, 2010|Vanitas=If Darkness can act alone unlike Light, it shows how much stronger darkness is than light, and then how unbalanced the worlds were already at that time. No wonder AtW is desperate for Sora to restore balance.

P.S. Thanks for the like ^^}}

Read Xehanort Report 10, it states that from his extraction, Vanitas is stronger than Ventus. In fact, it states that Vanitas is too strong. Also take into account the process in which Vanitas was extracted and collected, Master Xehanort summoned Neo Shadows and released them onto Ventus and then he unlocks Ventus' heart with his Keyblade. Because there are Seven Hearts of Pure Light, it is obvious that a heart can exist without darkness, but in this case the process in which the pure light was obtained nearly destroyed the heart and that's why Ventus had to link his own heart to Sora's.--[[User:XYZach|XYZ.]] 18:21, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

== Vanitas looking like Sora ==

Ok, its obvious that they made Vanitas look like Sora to make the connection between the two people, but if you take into account Sora's age at the time, he's only a wee pup and Vanitas takes the shape of Sora whe he's 15. So could we assume that technically Sora looks like Vanitas, and not vice versa? I'm thinking that whe Ven's heart found its way into Sora it affected what he would look like when he was around the same physical age as Vanitas. 

Or maybe nobody really thought that detail out and its just a fluke. ~~Axel's Sentiment~~

I believe this was discussed earlier at this page...
Anyway, it has been stated by Nomura that the reason Vanitas looks like teenage Sora is because young Sora's and Ventus's hearts connected, and Vanitas was still dependent Ventus because he is the physical embodiment of Ventus's darkness. Therefore, he took on the appearance of an aged Sora with black hair and yellow eyes. (He wasn't born with Sora's features. He gained them due to the connection between Sora and Ven. Had Ventus connected with Riku, Vanitas would look like KHII Riku.) [[User:Tamroc7|Tamroc7]] 01:35, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 
Yeah, I sorta realized that a little bit after I posted it. But thanks for the clarification. [[Special:Contributions/65.100.110.18|65.100.110.18]] 01:40, June 15, 2010 (UTC)Axel's Sentiment

Actually I think that he would looks like Riku with 15 since Ventus is 15 at the bbs time, but this is just my speculation--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 01:44, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Oh thanks so much, I was just going to ask this very question. I'm glad I don't have to now. [[User:KyrianXVII|KyrianXVII]] 17:24, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

== Well Now I'm a Lil Grumpy... ==

{{NeutraVega|What in the fuck happened to the personality section?  It used to be nice, small, clear and concise, and now I'm seeing a whole bunch of unnecessary nonsense reminiscent of fanboy ravings.  And to make matters worse, you all went and locked it before you even thought of fixing it.  So please, for the love of all things holy, revert that section to how it used to be.}}
:Can you post what you want it to look like below, and I'll post it over.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 03:38, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
{{NeutraVega|I'd love to, but everything but the first sentence was completely fantarded...  Really.  Who did this?  I'll fucking sack his ass for this - especially after the time I had trying to fix the damn thing.}}
{{LapisScarab|time=21:32, June 26, 2010 (UTC)|text=This is the original version. It took all of thirty seconds to see that an unregistered contributor changed it. '''As a being created from the purest of darkness, Vanitas is proud, cunning, cruel, and pure evil. The lives of others, including that of even Master Xehanort, hold absolutely no value to him, and as a pragmatist, he would strike without a moment's thought or warning. His overall personality is in an extremely stark contrast to Ventus and Sora (and, by extension, [[Roxas]] and [[Xion]]) who are valiant, value friendship, and possess heroic qualities.''' Though even this doesn't sound quite right.}}

== Trivia ==
Should a possible parallel between Sora's Heartless creating the Bug Blocks and Vanitas creating the Unversed be mentioned?--[[User:XYZach|ΧƳƵach.]] 19:34, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

== Evil Impossibility ?==

a character cannot be pure evil (sin reserves that spot), but they simply do things as they see fit. The acts themselves may be evil, but the intentions of a character are either selfish, misguided, or both. A character presented as 'pure evil' is normally boring, but can a being made from evil (darkness) truly be evil? or just the product of another action or selfish reason of another? vanitas' mind set is, 'I don't see it as bad, just as self preservation, enjoyment, or self promotion'. once again,'self' appears. Thoughts? --[[User:Oh,how the sea calls|Oh,how the sea calls]]

Vanitas is literally every ounce of darkness from Ven's heart. By Kingdom Hearts-standards, that equates to pure evil. Moreso than MX, who is simply corrupted by darkness. Vanitas ''is'' darkness.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}23:04, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

I think you should sign your posts. Also, I think we have no idea what Vani's motivations were, so we would only be speculating.  --<span style="font-size:10pt">[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-size=12pt; font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']]</span> 23:06, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry. Forgot to sign it. And Lapis is right I suppose. 'Pure evil' is just a really over used term. [[User:Oh,how the sea calls|Oh,how the sea calls]] 23:15, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and I did sign my post.[[User:Oh,how the sea calls|Oh,how the sea calls]] 23:16, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

I signed your (first) post.  --<span style="font-size:10pt">[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-size=12pt; font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']]</span> 23:19, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

I guess it is technically speculation. Hopefully the English release will solve some of the confusion.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}23:24, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, hopefully.

[[User:Oh,how the sea calls|Oh,how the sea calls]] 23:37, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

He's pretty much shown he's far more evil than any antagonist thus far, and that's sayin' a lot. [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 00:17, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
:Vanitas is as evil as it's possible to be. It's impossible to be pure evil, because evil is just corruption of good, not a thing in and of itself, but he's as evil as he can be.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 01:21, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Dood, the guy can't do anything EXCEPT evil D: The boy's a plague. Literally. He threatens the entire universe just by existing. And you honestly think a primal force of nature is just simply gonna hand over the key to Kingdom Hearts to Master Xehanort when he can just easily betray him? [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 01:55, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

What, were you expecting him to be ''good'' at all? [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 02:05, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Think this over: Ganondorf from Zelda is a being of pure evil. Ganon is the fomr he takes when he transform. It is possible to be fulyl evil,Vanitas for example is. [[User:Naruto195|Naruto195]] 06:55, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
:That doesn't make any sense. If you had a force that was purely evil, purely destructive, it would instantly destroy itself, which would be a good thing. "Pure evil" is a contradiction in terms.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 07:35, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know, Vanitas is literally all of the darkness in Ven's heart. There's no light (i.e. good) left to corrupt, is there? It's not possible for pure evil to exist ''naturally'', but through artificial means, maybe it can. And Ganon wasn't ''totally'' evil, not from his tone in Wind Waker's ending, but that's another debate entirely.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}07:42, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Well then again its a debate on motivation, nature, perspective, and acts. According to Christians (I am one) the only thing that is pure evil is sin, but this posses two questions (if you look at it from the Christian persecutive). Is darkness sin, and is Vanitas really sinning? [[User:Oh,how the sea calls|Oh,how the sea calls]] 01:50, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

well darkness could also mean ignorance, falseness, etc but that doesn't really fit here. [[User:Oh,how the sea calls|Oh,how the sea calls]] 01:52, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
:Sin is not pure evil. In Christianity, there is no such thing as pure evil, because that would imply a dualistic system.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 01:56, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Pure evil is more complicated than a good rounded villain haha (not bashing Vanitas, they pulled that off perfectly)[[User:Oh,how the sea calls|Oh,how the sea calls]] 02:00, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

I believe that Vanitas is the most evil villain in the series. Unlike his master, who was good in the past, this guy was born bad. his very existence threatens the worlds, he doesn't care about anything but himself, and he would have most likely double-crossed Xehanort if they succeeded. I highly doubt he would've handed over the key to Kingdom Hearts when its easier to betray him. PhantomHeartless5

== Vanitas spawn? ==

How does the Vanitas' sentiment exist? Is it the last unversed or just an item similar to the lingering sentiment?

{{LyingMemories|time=[[User:Lying Memories|Lying Memories]] 03:59, July 21, 2010 (UTC)|text= similar to the lingering sentiment. Although the lingering sentiment actually has a storyline purpose, Nomura said the only reason Vanitas' sentiment was in there was because of the enormous liking of the LS. But there is a secret boss that has some sort of story connection.}}

== Vanitas' VA ==

{{LyingMemories|time=[[Special:Contributions/108.2.232.217|108.2.232.217]] 21:35, July 20, 2010 (UTC)|text= Hey guys, it's everyone's favorite Lying Memories here and I have a bit of info. Haley Joel Osment, that guy with the big clown shoes and a huge key we all know and love, is voicing Vanitas in BBS. I'll try and find the actual source so you guys can cite it, but I'm not lying (ha. lying memories isn't lying). So yea, I'll try to find the source, or if someone can beat me to it. Been a long time since I've been on this site.}}


{{LyingMemories|time=[[Special:Contributions/108.2.232.217|108.2.232.217]] 21:46, July 20, 2010 (UTC)|text= Alright, this was the best one I could find that wasn't some forum thingy, because I'm pretty sure that a forum thingy wouldn't be accepted. http://www.kingdomhearts3.us/category/kingdom-hearts-birth-by-sleep/}}
{{LapisScarab|time=22:18, July 20, 2010 (UTC)|text=I don't see anything there saying where they got this confirmation.}}
{{LyingMemories|time=[[Special:Contributions/108.2.232.217|108.2.232.217]] 23:22, July 20, 2010 (UTC)|text= yea i know. but it was the best I could find, and I can tell that it is Haley Joel Osment's voice from the 2010 E3 english trailer, but I don't know why it's so goddamn hard to find concrete proof and confirmations. Like I'm not trying to add lies and falsehoods to the wiki, but I seriously can't find anything that actually confirms the confirmation. It's like the whole Leonard Nimoy thing all over again.}}

{{AZ|time=23:30, July 20, 2010 (UTC)|text= Eh you shouldn't worry. Since's he's the same guy who VA'd Sora it's most probable that he will VA Van. }}

{{LyingMemories|time=[[Special:Contributions/108.2.232.217|108.2.232.217]] 23:36, July 20, 2010 (UTC)|text= Maybe this one will work better? Haha I'll probably end up posting like 30 links. But I mean, if you listen to the E3 2010 trailer, you can clearly tell it's him. But I understand that the wiki needs proof and everything despite how obvious the VA may be, so whatever... if I find a better one, or an interview or something, I'll come back and clog up more discussion room ^_^ http://www.examiner.com/x-25505-Video-Game-Trailers-Examiner~y2010m6d16-Kingdom-Hearts-Birth-By-Sleep-official-E3-2010-trailer}}
{{LapisScarab|time=00:45, July 21, 2010 (UTC)|text=This isn't the same as the Leonard Nimoy thing. Niomy's voice is ''very'' distinct. We knew who it was the second he spoke, and it was just a formality that we waited for explicit confirmation. Haley's voice isn't that unique, so "it sounds like him" isn't solid enough proof.}}
{{LyingMemories|time=[[User:Lying Memories|Lying Memories]] 03:29, July 21, 2010 (UTC)|text= I never said anything along the lines of it sounds like him, so it's solid enough proof. I'm just saying that I know that it has been confirmed, that it's his voice, that I recognize the voice, and that unfortunately, I can't find a legit enough source for the wiki. Yes Nimoy's voice is distinct, but it's the same thing in the fact that someone recognizes the voice, knows it's confirmed, can't find the source to back them up, and end up getting chastised for it. Well, on Master Xehanort there was the chastising, but so far that hasn't really happened yet. And I doubt IMDB or any forums would be regarded enough as legit, cuz I've seen it on IMDB as well. Just compare the Haley Joel Osment interview regarding KH2 to the Vanitas English Voice. It's definitely his voice, but I'll continue my fruitless search for confirmation. All I have gotten so far is an interview from Nomura stating that Vanitas' appearance and his VA will be a shock, and I unfortunately know the BBS story.}}
{{LapisScarab|time=04:09, July 21, 2010 (UTC)|text='''I'm just saying that I know that it has been confirmed, that it's his voice, that I recognize the voice, and that unfortunately, I can't find a legit enough source for the wiki.'''

That's the same as "it sounds like him". I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but that's really what you're saying. The problem with the sources you keep providing is that all they do is ''say'' it's him, but they don't offer any explaination of ''how'' they know it's him (IMDB does the same thing). Take Dilan's VA. [http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq86/saltyness/fisher_confirm.jpg This] is the kind of source we want. Explict confirmation from the actor/his agent/someone else involved with the game.}}
{{LyingMemories|time=[[User:Lying Memories|Lying Memories]] 06:32, July 21, 2010 (UTC)|text= You're saying that because I'm saying they sound alike, I'm automatically saying that's the proof we need. Well I'm not, I'm just saying they sound very very VERY much alike, like I'm 100% sure that he is doing the voice, and I'm not asking you guys to put it in there. At least not until I find the source that can back the truth up. I know the wiki rules and I'm trying to follow them, but it's hard when you can't find the actual sources. But again, I'm not asking you to put the info in there, yet. Once I find the source, or if someone else does, we're golden. I'm not trying to be mean either, but don't tell me what I'm trying to say. I get that kinda shit too much, and it's always untrue. No one can know what I'm trying to say except for me. And yea I know what type of source is preferred, but it's still hard. If I had a twitter I'd bug Haley Joel Osment about it, but I don't, so that's out. Basically, I know it's him, but I won't change the wiki until I find the source to back the truth up and not gain the ire of any of the other users.}}
{{LapisScarab|time=06:36, July 21, 2010 (UTC)|text=Okay, fair enough. And I appreciate that you are looking for sources ''before'' trying to put it up. That's a level of patience a lot of people seem to lack.}}
{{WarMonger89|time=06:42, July 21, 2010 (UTC)|text=if i might have a say, i have the trailer on my PSP, and i can safely say that i know it's Haley Joel Osment Playing Vanitas. it almost sounds like a deeper tone than when he did Sora. just wanted to let you guys know that much.}}
{{Naruto195|time=[[User:Naruto195|Naruto195]] 19:01, July 21, 2010 (UTC)|angry=Even if it is Hael WE...HAVE...TO...WAIT...FOR...CONFIRMATION! I know you guys want to prove it but wait till the game comes out or a offical post from Hael comfirms it. Just be patient.}}
{{LyingMemories|time=[[User:Lying Memories|Lying Memories]] 00:26, July 22, 2010 (UTC)|text= That's what I said earlier haha. I'm not gonna do anything to the wiki until I can find some source of legit proof to back it up.}}
{{KrytenKoro|Mr. Memories here isn't trying to violate policy on the pages here, so there's no reason to yell at him. I think we can all calm down.}}
{{LyingMemories|time=[[User:Lying Memories|Lying Memories]] 06:25, July 22, 2010 (UTC)|text= lol Mr. Memories. Never been called that before. I like the sound of it though.}}

== Proununctuation ==

{{ST|text=so i saw the new trailer, apparantly his name is pronounced ''vuh-NEE-tus''}}

I was about to write on that- it seems that Leonard Nimoy might have just pronounce it weird, because the art (his namesake) and the way the Japanese would (Vahh nee Tahhs). [[User:Oh,how the sea calls|Oh,how the sea calls]] 14:44, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

== His Heart ==

In KH1 when a regular heart is released from a regular person it looks like a Heart, but when Sora releases the PoH's Hearts from the KoPH and Kairi's Heart from inside him their Hearts look like orbs of Light. When Vanitas is created it shows MX extract the Darkness, and it froms a new Heart, that has the appearance of an orb of Light. One would think it would look like an orb of darkness seeing as Vanitas is essentially the exact opposite of a PoH. --Evnyofdeath 04:40, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

{{ST|text=perhaps the orb of light is simply the appearance is simply the appearance of a heart, regardless of it's light/dark ratio}}

Then why did the guy in the beginning of KH who lost his heart and became a Soldier in front of Sora have a Heart that looked like a valintines heart instead of an Orb of Light? --Evnyofdeath 04:47, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

{{ST|text=i dont know, but did you notice every other heart that was extracted appeared as an orb of light(vanitas, master xehanort, aurora and im pretty sure belle in ReCoM)}}

{{Xabryn|text=It is probably because the heart was extracted by a heartless, heartless hearts have that shape

EDIT:--22:56, September 10, 2010 (UTC) and Belle's heart the shape of a heart in CoM and Re:CoM just like the heart of the guy who had the heart stole in Traverse Town but that's probably because that's only a memorie version and the only heart Sora actually saw was that}}

We have to remember that KH1 came out 8 years ago (minor note, BbS was almost 8 years to the day for the US). Some of this old stuff have probably been re-imagined. The "heart" in KH is more of a symbolic/mystical thing and as BbS is before the outbreak of the Heartless I don't think there's THAT much darkness to be seen. Vanitas is something different from Human but he isn't an Unversed nor a Heartless. I think we can all agree that Vanitas is Vanitas, a being of pure darkness. I also think that he HAD been able to fuse with Ventus properly, the KH universe would be a very different place, Vanitas probably would have killed Master Xehanort and either shaped it into a place of negativity or destroied it simply because he could. --[[User:Hyperwire 2.0|Hyperwre_2.0]] 19:05, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

== Nomura's Reasoning ==

Nomura said Vanitas looks like Sora because Sora melded hearts with Ven right? Well that doesn't make sense to me. I'll try and explain it the best I can.

Vanitas was created in the keyblade graveyard and immediately took the form of Sora which put Ventus in a catatonic state for sometime, for how long we don't know but Ventus only awakened from that state upon meeting Sora's Heart in the Destiny Islands after Xehanort took him there. Vanitas couldn't have taken Sora's appearance because Ven and Sora hadn't met upon his (Vanitas') creation. As far as I know. Although I may be completely off. [[User:Under The Heavens|Under The Heavens]] 17:40, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

The reason is because Vanitas had no real face. When Ven's heart was connected by Sora's AFTER he got to Distiny Island. Nomura said that because Ven's heart was connected to Sora's, Vanitas looked like Sora. [[User:Naruto195|Naruto195]] 17:44, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure I saw not only his face but his Sora-esque hair upon his creation...Lemme watch this again. *Turns on his PSP* [[User:Under The Heavens|Under The Heavens]] 17:56, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Nope...I was wrong! Well thanks for the info, Naruto195 [[User:Under The Heavens|Under The Heavens]] 18:04, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Its perfectly fine. [[User:Naruto195|Naruto195]] 18:05, September 30, 2010 (UTC)
:Vanitas is not a being of his own - he is merely an extension of Ventus, as was Sora-Heartless or Ansem. Ventus destroyed that part of his heart, that's why Sora had to lend him more heart at the end of the game.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 18:20, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

== Personality ==

{{Sac|text=The part about Vanitas being insane is speculation as there is no proof for it. And as it is speculation it shouldn't be in this article.}}
{{ST|text=then take it out}}


==Return (Spoilers)==

after reading the new interview and seeing the secret ending for Re:Coded, I am wondering if he would return. Yen Sid makes a remark on the possibility of MX not returning alone. _ Oh,how the sea calls

oh, how the sea calls. Thank you for bringing this up. Vanitas was either destroyed or returned to ventus for this I'll go with the latter possibility. If he returned to ven then when ven's heart became part of sora's vanitas became part of sora's heart(this could also explain Anti-form a little better) but this is a near impossibility unless nomura is paying attention to the wiki talk page...lol.
anyways the part about ''Xehanort'' returning with back up could involve the mysterious Unknown from Land of Departure. I would also put my bet on Vanitas returning when they save Ven to try and create the X-blade and some more unknown keyblade wielders that could appear in 3D. Xander19[http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/User:Xander19]

:This kind of discussion should be left to the [[Forum:Twilight_Town_Library|forums]] as it does not pertain to the article itself. {{User:Soxra/Sig|t=6:52am, January 7, 2011 (UTC)}}

== Face Traits ==
Where it says "In an interview with Tetsuya Nomura, it is revealed that this similarity is due to Sora's heart connecting with Ventus near the beginning of the game, and had anyone else connected with Ventus's heart, Vanitas would look like that person." That would also explain why Ven's face resembles Roxas ¿Or not? --[[User:Lukethehedgehog|Lukethehedgehog]] 13:07, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

We know this haha[[User:Oh,how the sea calls|Oh,how the sea calls]] 19:34, 24 March 2011 (EDT)

==Possible Return?==

Has there been any evidence suggesting a return for him? It seems like when Xehanort comes back he will need a "lieutenant."[[User:Oh,how the sea calls|Oh,how the sea calls]] 22:12, 26 February 2011 (EST)

:This belongs in the forums. --[[File:Xigbar's Replica Data KHIIFM.png|15px]][[User:As_if!|<font face="Jazz LET" color="blueviolet" size=3>AS</font face>]] [[User_talk:As_if!|<font face="Jazz LET" color="grey" size=3>IF!</font face>]][[File:Xigbar's Replica Data KHIIFM.png|15px]] 20:02, 24 March 2011 (EDT)

==Novel Backstory?==

So, uh, should the backstory of Vanitas from the KH BBS novels be put on the page? Is it considered canonical? --[[Special:Contributions/68.173.84.100|68.173.84.100]] 06:34, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Probably yes, but it's not considered canon so put the <nowiki>{{Canon}}</nowiki> at the start and <nowiki>{{Canonend}}</nowiki> at the end of the section. {{User:17master/Sign}} 13:25, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Oh. Where was it said that it wasn't canon? I would put it if I wanted to, but I'm not very good at stuff like that, so uh, yeah. --[[Special:Contributions/68.173.84.100|68.173.84.100]] 04:33, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

:We consider the manga and novels to be separate from the in-game canon, so they get bookended by the <nowiki>{{Canon}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{Canonend}}</nowiki> templates. You can just write what you want right into the "Story" section, and put the templates as written here before and after, or if you're not comfortable, put it right below on this page and we'll put it in for you.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 04:43, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
:If you decided to do it yourself, you can use [[Riku#Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days|this]] as an example. {{User:17master/Sign}} 08:18, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
::Wait, we consider the novels non-canon?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 06:30, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
:::As far as I know the only thing we considered as canon is the game._. {{User:17master/Sign}} 07:03, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
::::Us, sure, but what evidence do we have for that? I thought Nomura stated that the novels were meant to be canon.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:00, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
::::This canon stuff can get confusing, can't it? --[[Special:Contributions/68.173.84.100|68.173.84.100]] 13:34, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
:No, not really. All published materials are considered canon unless specifically stated otherwise. What I'm asking is, where was it stated otherwise for the novels.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:39, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

== Pure Evil ==

I'm not sure if he should be considered "pure evil", if his [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Vanitas#Kingdom_Hearts_Birth_by_Sleep_Novels novel backstory] from the other Wiki is right all he wanted was to unite with Ventus to end his pain, in a way he was just manipulated by MX like everyone else. {{User:Xabryn/Sig}} 00:29, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

== Now hold on. ==

[[User:Unknown3619|Unknown3619]] 15:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC) Why is Vanitas a offical KH:3D Character? He was destroyed. Yeah im aware that he made a apperance in the New Trailers. But are we even sure that was canon? I mean he could have been put in that shot for emphasis when Young Xehanort said: "not one.... you have two hearts inside you". Say what you want, im not entirely convinced he will return.

{{ErryTalk|time=15:50, 9 January 2012 (UTC)|bayonetta=I'm not entirely convinced it was for "emphasis". If they wanted emphasis, an easy camera angle or effect or something could've done that. But Vanitas appeared for a reason, which is yet to be known. Wait until March when the game comes out and maybe then we'll be able to find some middle ground on if he appears or does not appear. But as far as I know, if he appears in the trailer, he appears in the game unless noted otherwise (such as when the game releases).}}