Editing Talk:Vanitas

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* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 1|Archive 1]] - November 05, 2009
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 1|Archive 1]] - November 05, 2009
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 2|Archive 2]] - January 20, 2010
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 3|Archive 3]] - February 11, 2018
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==Nomura Interview==
== Trailer Info ==
I finished adding proper citations to Vanitas's page, but I'm having trouble tracking one of the interviews down. In Vanitas's Trivia section, there is a line that states: "Nomura also stated in another interview that Vanitas's identity was familiar and perhaps also shocking."


However, I spent days combing through the KHInsider's archives for the interviews and I've tried Google-ing, but I can't seen to find the interview where Nomura-sensei said that Vanita's face is supposed to "shock" fans, which is stated as part of the interview. [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Vanitas?diff=248958&oldid=248857 I tried going back to the Keyhole where that trivia was first inserted into the page, but I got nothing]. When I tried typing keywords in the search engine, I couldn't find anything. Does anyone remember which interview Nomura-sensei said that? Was it in a video interview or at a con where one of the trailers were shown? I took the sentence out of the trivia section, because unless it's sourced, it doesn't really belong there. Besides, I don't think it fitted well since it had more to do Vanitas's voice.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 23:10, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
Some of the Birth by Sleep Trailers Have been leaked. in one Master Xehanort Says "Those who Submit to darkness are not qualified to Wield the keyblade. already that man" Cuts to apprentice as he says this "has become a monster consumed by Darkness. use your power to defeat the darkness and correct my mistake." these trailers are on youtube. you might have to dig around a bit but it's there. should be mentioned in a article edit for link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuoA5DL_oM0&feature=related


== Monstropolis pre-3D ==
i wonder why xehanort actually says that when in the final mix secret ending he seems to be fighting together with his apprentice and not against him --[[User:Darksoldier|Darksoldier]] 12:47, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


"he says his heart needed to be reconstructed using negative emotions, meaning he was collected at some point after his battle with Ventus (as that was when his heart was shattered). His journal entry also refers to him as being from after BBS"
maybe he changed his mind or that scene happens before this one


*No, it doesn't. It means that he, currently, is after KHBBS. Nothing more.
{{Template:ST|time=00:35, November 9, 2009 (UTC)|text=My running theory is that MX said that so that he could bait Ven into fighting/killing Vanitas so that he would do something evil, be regarded as a dark being, be rejected by his friends, yaddah yaddah}}
*His journal entry absolutely does not say that. It says:


:A member of the real Organization XIII.
== Speculation ==
:This is the pure darkness that Master Xehanort extracted from Ventus's heart. He was pitted against Ventus in order to forge the X-blade, but Ventus prevailed and Vanitas ceased to exist.
{{yer mom|text=There is a lot of speculation in the Trivia, should we add a special part for theories or leave it where it is? (Some of those theories sound like nonsense tho...}}
:Now that he is back, he continues to seek his "brother," Ventus.


This is exactly parallel to all of the other Org profiles talking about how Sora or Riku killed them. Xemnas's profile talks about they "put an end to his plans and Xemnas himself." Ansem's talks about him being destroyed. They both also say how, despite their destruction, they've returned.
like what?--KHF 19:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


There is nothing in the journal that indicates that Vanitas came back into existence on his own, instead of being snatched before his death in BBS, just like the other org members were.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
i agree with that. there should be a theorys secttion , and some of it does sound like nonsense so you should add a section nammed that too! :D.
but im not in charga that so.....


His heart was shattered at the end of BBS, why would it need to be reconstructed in Monstropolis if he was snatched from before it being shattered? The journal saying "now that he is '''back''', he '''continues''' to seek his "brother," Ventus" is different from the others ("despite this Ansem/Xemnas has returned") as his refers to him as being back from his defeat and continuing with his prior task. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 21:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
{{NeutraVega|Oh god, PLEASE no theories section...}}
:Because it was already damaged by the climax of KHBBS. In addition, with the events following. Vanitas was originally unstable until Sora's heart connected with Ventus's -- if that link has been tampered with (CoM, etc.), even if the heart is taken to the future, you'd expect there to be instability again.
{{Maggosh|text=...And you are?}}
:referring to him being back from his defeat is the same language used for Ansem and Xemnas.
:{{NeutraVega|Tetsuya Nomura.}}
:It refers to him continuing his task, because its his own task apart from the organization's plans. He's one of the few Organization members doing his own thing.
:The Ultimania specifically says this is Vanitas "from the past", and the events with Randall are implied to have ''just happened'', based on the fact that Sully, who works at Monsters Inc. ''every day'', was not aware anything was amiss at first.
:There is no mechanism provided anywhere in the series for him to have just "come back", and if he had, what would be the point of snatching him from the past? He'd already be there. Snatching from the past was ''only'' supposed to be a mechanism for retrieving those who were irretrievably destroyed.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 22:11, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::Also, I have no idea where all this is from:
:::"Vanitas's fractured heart met the monster Randall, who told him about Monstropolis and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy. Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter, Vanitas manipulates Randall using his desire for revenge"
::If it was explicitly mentioned in the scenes, fine, but I don't recall anything indicating that Vanitas found Randall in Louisiana and had this conversation with him.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 22:16, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Wasn't his heart only fragmented after his final fight with Ventus in BBS? It wouldn't need to be reconstructed otherwise. Vanitas implies to Mike that the Unversed and Randall have been working behind the scenes, making canisters of scream energy under their noses. He also did say that he found Randall. He could have been picked up from the past because they could not obtain him in the present, like Xion. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 22:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Xion was taken from the past so that they'd have an obedient version -- and even with being taken from her puppet days, she still had links of friendship to Sora and Lea.
:::His heart was damaged from the very moment of his creation. That's why the Unversed existed to begin with.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:04, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
They also collected every member of the org via time travel in DDD even though most existed in the present. Anyhow, maybe it would be best to just put the info back in the KHIII section and not mention what point in the past he was collected from. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 23:09, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:No, they didn't. The KH3D and KH3 Ultimania explicitly say they didn't. The ones that existed in the present just showed up on their own.
:The KH3 Ultimania explicitly says that the replica contains the heart of "Vanitas from the past". That only makes sense as being a reference to BBS.
:Also, I need to rephrase what I said about Xion -- they picked a certain point in time to pluck her from because that was when she was most pliant, but the reason they needed to use time travel in the first place is that she had already reunited with Sora.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:18, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Well it does not say exactly where in the past he comes from, so we don't need to explicitly say (like how we're not mentioning it with Repliku). Even going by him not existing post-BBS, he could be from pre-BBS. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 23:23, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:We know when Repliku is taken from. It's from before Namine undid the brainwashing on him. If it's not in the article, it should be.::{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:12, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
::Is it not that Dark Riku is from the time when Ansem possessed Riku, rather than being Riku Replica's Heart? From what I understood that was how it worked and the Replica comment was just concerning the vessel within which Dark Riku's Hearts was within. I also agree with what has been said regarding Vanitas' own Heart. Ultimania states that he's from the past, and i think that the work the Unversed did to collect negative emotions was just to fill out Vanitas' Heart and allow him to be a complete being on his own - since he'd still otherwise lack half a Heart, just like Ventus. But at the same time - he still sought to join his Heart with Ventus's, which would suggest that he is simply restored from post KHBBS. I think it's more of a slip up somewhere on Nomura's part to be honest ([[User:Levi657|Levi657]] ([[User talk:Levi657|talk]]) 18:28, 5 March 2019 (UTC))
:::No. Both the final death of Dark Riku, and the Ultimania, state that Dark Riku is the Riku Replica from the period of time in which it ''thought'' it was Ansem-possessed Riku.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:01, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
::::[https://forums.khinsider.com/spoilers/218575-kingdom-hearts-3-story-discussion-48.html Good explanation of scene].{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:01, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
So his fractured heart was picked up after his final battle with Ven by Youngnort, but his fixing of his heart happened after he got a replica body rather than in-between games. That works too. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 18:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)


I agree with NeutraVega. A theories section would defeat the purpose of the wiki being for facts. We will add information as it is given to us by the game designers, not add our ideas of what the designers ''might'' say. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 20:52, October 23, 2009 (UTC)


Okay, so KH3D might actually inform some of this:


*https://www.khinsider.com/news/KH3D-Ultimania-Interviews-Translated-2602
:{{NeutraVega|Lapis, my man, I truly wish that was the case. But alas, there is a wide variety of morons to be found about up in here that tend to contest logic, information, and reasoning with pure drivel and nonsense.}}
*https://www.khinsider.com/news/KH3D-Famitsu-Weekly-Interview-Translated-2603
{{TNE|time=02:14, October 24, 2009 (UTC)|text=There you go again, Neutra... Forget the theories section, only the few bits of speculation should be left there. At least for Xion, we had one, and the page was vandalised.}}


:— Why did Xehanort and co. word things as if to try and wake Ventus who is inside Sora?
I don't think it's necessary to go that far, Neutra. There's no harm in speculating, in my opinion, so long as it stays off the actual articles. I'm pretty sure Tetsuya Nomura has said that he leaves mysteries in the series to make us use our imaginations and speculate. It's just that wikias aren't the place for it. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 02:50, October 24, 2009 (UTC)
::Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. ''When you see Vanitas (the dark half of Ventus who appeared in KHBBS) overlay Young Xehanort for a moment, that represents Ventus’ heart reacting inside Sora.''
:— What about Vanitas?
::Nomura: ''Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form.'' He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.


So, especially with the clarification from the Ultimania that Demyx and Vexen were benched ''during'' KH3D, I think we can clarify a bit here. Vanitas talks about how his heart is just made of negativity, that the screams and sadness were enough to reconstruct it, that it is still incomplete, and he emphasizes that he's never met Sora ''in the flesh''. So, his weakened heart was brought back from the past, and maybe wasn't strong enough to attach to a replica yet (this is why Vanitas doesn't have a physical form in KH3D). Mike and Sulley are just finishing their playdate with Boo when the Unversed are found, indicating they've just been there for a day (at least, in terms of Monstropolis). So, the implication seems to be (and I don't think is is quite explicit enough to put on the wiki itself, yet), that Vanitas's weak heart was dropped off at Monstropolis, used the Unversed to soak up the remaining surplus of scream energy as well as acquire new screams, and then was strong enough for a Replica. As far as I can tell, we don't even see him physically interacting with anything at Monstropolis until ''after'' the Lump of Horror is defeated.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:28, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
{{NeutraVega|You're right.  There isn't any harm in doing speculation. But there is when it comes to involving factual articles in it.}}
{{TNE|time=13:07, October 24, 2009 (UTC)|blahtext=After all, the whole purpose of the few bits of speculation is to keep the enthusiasm up. While too much of speculation's bound to damage the article, a few wouldn't hurt. If there ever should be a theory section, that's the section where our current speculation is. No more, and any further speculation should come into the talk page for filtering.}}


:To back this up, Vexen says at The Caribbean that not even his finest replica could continue existing without a heart.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:59, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
{{NeutraVega|Enthusiasm?  Keep it up?  Is it me, or have you forgotten Master Eraqus?  That, my dear, is the result of "trying to keep up enthusiasm."  Everyone got all excited like, and it turned into a shitstorm.  And don't you DARE say I started it all...  If anything, you all got to thinking straight afterwards.  Let's not have an encore.}}
== Randall ==


*Vanitas encountered the monster [[Randall]], who told him about [[Monstropolis]] and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy.
I'd also like to bring something up; Vanitas and the other characters from Birth By Sleep are from a game that has yet to be released, meaning that a lot of these questions will be answered during the course of the game. There is no reason to speculate on the articles until the game has been released and some questions answered. Basically, a speculation section in any article about a game that has yet to be released is pointless, as the release of the game will likely render the contents of the section moot. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 03:24, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
**What is the source that Randall specifically informed Vanitas of how screams were used for energy, instead of just negativity being harvested?
:...NeutraVega, please don't engage in denial. We put up an article based on the best information we had, backed up by multiple sites, and you raised a shit-fulled temper tantrum. Certain editors over-reacted to your calls that we report nothing at all, but the blame for the spectacle rests squarely on your shoulders.
*Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter,
:Here's a hint - information translated by those of our editors who are ''fluent in Japanese'' is only ''unofficial'', not "groundless specualtion".[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 09:59, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
**That's not why Randall was banished in the movie. What is the source for this being the cause in the game?
*Vanitas encourages Randall's belief that scream power was more reliable,
**Source? Randall's driving force in the movies was just that scream power made ''him'' more important, since it was what he was best at. Randall wants to be the star.
*stating that if a child's heart was broken over something truly precious to to them, they would be a limitless source of negative emotions.
**this sounds like script regurgitation.
*Vanitas repairs the doorway Randall had been banished through using a dark corridor.
**source?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:30, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Should probably be rewritten (I just put back what was there before). The only part I think is accurate is that Vanitas finds Randall and helps him get back by fixing the door. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 17:38, 8 March 2019 (UTC)


I rewatched the scenes, and I think this is a good summary (needs to be rewritten for Vanitas PoV):
{{NeutraVega|Don't insult my godamn intelligence; I know full well the difference between speculation and unofficial albeit factual information.  The shit that was in there was outright crap straight from KHInsider forums.  That's not to say all of it was.  But a fair chunk?  Damn straight.  Like I said...no encore performances.  Let's stick to facts.  Intriguing trivia, sure.  Speculation?  lolno}}


Fortunately for him, Vanitas found him and decided to exploit his ambition and desire for revenge. Vanitas fixed Randall's door, allowing him to return to Monsters, Inc. and attempt to reclaim his prior prestige. However, believing that laugh power is unsustainable, he still insisted on exploiting negative emotional energy, and allied with Vanitas's Unversed to acquire it. With their help, he infiltrated the factory and weaponized its machinery.
We're going the best we can. And besides, half of that speculation is made by anonymous viewers or other users who are still new here. They don't know better. Just lay off.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 17:43, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
:...You complained about the name (and that only, looking at the page). Which was translated straight from the katakana, and was checked against multiple Japanese news sites.
:Besides his name, nothing on [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/index.php?title=Master_Eraqus&oldid=188689 this version of the page] was unconfirmed. And that's the version of the page that we had while you were whining. And with respect to the final confirmed name, your tantrum amounted to saying we should delete all information and pictures we had just because the name ended up having a "u" shifted over one place. Wow, what a huge difference.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:29, October 26, 2009 (UTC)


{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:35, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
{{NeutraVega|That's right.  I complained.  And I was RIGHT.  I TOLD you to wait until an official romanization was out.  But you were dead set that you were right...  I fail to see why you would even bring that up, and use it against me considering you were wrong...}}


==Update "Design" image==
Small note: If you weren't so massively in denial you would notice that I was ''not'' "dead set that I was right", and even posted a possible alternate name based on what the Japanese sites were saying. I was, however, ''dead set on not deleting an entire article on a character just because his name might have a "u" shifted''.
I was wondering whether we should keep the current picture or replace it with one from KH3, when Ven sees Sora for the first time and imagines Vanitas's unmasked face, as seen at the very start of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syQmSebusKs this video] (it's pretty LQ, but convenient). [[User:Immblueversion|Immblueversion]] ([[User talk:Immblueversion|talk]]) 16:46, 16 March 2019 (UTC)


== KH3 novel ==
But! Oh my goodness, you've just shown me the light. Of ''course'' we should delete an entire page worth of information because the initial translation was not as intended, even if was sensible. In fact, we should delete every single piece of information that hasn't been translated by it's original creators. Hell, how do we even know that the Final Mix games even exist? They haven't been released in English, so their existence must be ridiculous speculation.


New info from the KH3 novel (https://blowingoffsteam2.tumblr.com/post/186619968004). --[[Special:Contributions/84.203.5.141|84.203.5.141]] 21:35, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
Thank you so, so much, for making our fallacy clear. That's the wrap everyone! NeutraVega's explained why we should deny the existence of the Final Mix material![[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 07:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


:I just read the post, was that really from the legit novel, because of so then we REALLY REALLY know stuffs gonna go down in the next one. [[User:ZBroadcast|ZBroadcast]] ([[User talk:ZBroadcast|talk]]) 10:37 8 December, 2019 (UTC)
:Well said ! '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 13:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


== Graveyard Keyblades ==
:Too much QQing going on... does it really matter if we speculate or not? --[[User:Guyviroth|<span style="color:black"><b>Black Judgment of Guyviroth</b></span>]] 13:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
::Note to self: Never make Kryten mad.... Well, there needs to be a medium with our speculation. Too much speculation is bad for the article but having some isn't terrible. - [[User:HeartOfOblivion|<span style="color:#FF0000">'''Heart''']]<span style="color:#A9A9A9">'''Of'''[[User talk:HeartOfOblivion|<span style="color:#000000">'''Oblivion''']] 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


The ''KHIII ReMind'' fight with Vanitas gives the name for the Keyblade Graveyard Keyblades as '''Vanitas' Keyblades''', should they get a page or at least be mentioned in his Weapon section? --[[Special:Contributions/84.203.0.65|84.203.0.65]] 15:34, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Ha, if you ask me, every released bit of information is '''bound''' to have speculation in its early stages. I know quite a bit of PR and journalism theory to actually say this. There's no stopping the people from speculation. But that doesn't mean that we have to be '''flamed''' for it. Which reminds me, there's [[User:Unbirth|another user]] who found that the speculation was wrong (his guess was right), but took it very gracefully. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


== Brothers ==


So Vanitas at different points in KH3 calls Sora and Ven his brothers. What are your guys take on it. Should we consider Sora, Ven, and Vanitas as 3 brothers? I know they aren't brothers in the conventional sense, but in this wiki should we refer to them more as "brothers"? Vanitas conveyed decent logic towards the 3 of them being brothers. {{unsigned|Keybladefan0204}}
i dont think ther is. just as long as u tell that its speculation...by putting it in a speculation section *cough cough* -mr.XeroXero
:They're not brothers, so no. We can mention that Vanitas calls them his brothers, but that's about it. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
:EXACTLY, but if we do put in one, we have to limit the number of speculation bits just like we did for Xion, Ven, Terra and Aqua. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 14:00, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


== New info about Vanitas from the Official Character Book==
Yes!! even if its limited i dont mind. i rly do like to read what other ppl think n stuff.
So I found this new detail, turns out Vanitas' Keyblade doesn't have an actual official name (Despite the Vanitas Remnant giving the Void Gear Keyblade upon defeat), but it does note on the gear motif and blue eye of the design. Should we update any info on Vanitas then?
Link is right here: https://twitter.com/petalscythe/status/1233097044224610315


[[User:YeetusVanitas2010|YeetusVanitas2010]] ([[User talk:YeetusVanitas2010|talk]]) 17:47, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
I suppose that could work so long was we regulate the speculation, but I think we should wait until ''after'' Birth By Sleep comes out. That way, more questions can be answered and the speculation section can be for the unanswered questions. It'll be more organized. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 02:17, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
:These stories are third-tier canon. Not to mention, Void Gear was confirmed to be its name in one of the Ultimanias. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 03:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
:My thoughts exactly. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#FF1493">je t'♥</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF">mélancolie !</font>]]'''</sub> 02:42, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
We have this discussion on and off since 2010. In an interview for BBS Nomura confirmed, that you get Vanitas's Keyblade from Vanitas Remnant, which makes it synonymous with the Void Gear. Still the [https://i.imgur.com/aLL1Etgg.jpg Memorial Ultimania] and now the Character Book only name it "Vanitas's Keyblade", which is why this name appears also on the Void Gear page since we don't have a separate article for the colored variant. It's more a formality I think, they simply make a distinction between a Keychain's name and the Keyblade's actual name like with [http://images.khinsider.com/2014%20Uploads/10/Memorial%20Ultimania/bbs_03.png "Master Eraqus' Keyblade (Master Keeper)"] and [http://images.khinsider.com/2014%20Uploads/10/Memorial%20Ultimania/kh2_05.png "Kairi's Keyblade (Destiny Place)"] --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 09:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 
Hmmm... i agree. itd also keep the Speculation down i guess since more questions WILL be answered. that way it wont tic anyone off if they thunk thers "too much". -mr.xeroxero
 
== Voice Actor==
 
hey, judgementday, i'm not saying you're wrong, (i've definitely heard the voice before, though i'm bad at placing it...) just show us where you found out it was Miyu Irino, and it'll be settled, but unless there is a verified and checkable source, you can't leave his name on the page  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 21:06, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
{{Maggosh|text=I know I've heard his voice before, but I just can't make that connection, like you said. Didn't Nomura say that both Vanitas' and Eraqus' voice actors are 'difficult to hire'?}}
 
ah, the voice of riku? that i think i can hear now... still, is the VA '''officially''' Mamoru Miyano?  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 21:55, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
:It sounds like Miyano, sure, but <big><big>'''we're not putting anything up until it's announced.'''</big></big>—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 22:01, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
::and that's just fine with me  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 22:09, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 
OK, I apologize. However, the reason why I kept undoing many of the changes was because when I got on, I noticed that someone had listed Miyu Irino as the VA. I assumed that was official, and so I decided to make sure that this page kept it that way.
 
Well, I guess this is what I get for assuming. Again, I'm sorry. [[User:JudgmentDay95]]
:It's nothing personally against you, I was just pretty annoyed that by the time I had gotten to the page like four people had already posted Irino/Miyano.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 23:51, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 
{{NeutraVega|@Urutapu: Yeah.  Okiayu and Toyoguchi haven't exactly been announced either...yet, here we are!  But that said...I ''know'' I've heard his voice several times before myself...  But there's NO WAY in hell it's Mamoru Miyano or Miyu Irino...}}
 
Yo! I'm passing on by. Since BBS is released in Japan you can already find live streams of it. The credits and endings have been shown too. Vanitas is credited as Miyu Irino.[[User:Kibafool|Kibafool]] 20:18, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
==Removed from page==
"Secret video" synopses are ''not'' canon, and should be restricted to a mention in trivia or lead that "so and so appeared in this secret video". Right now, a few minutes of video barely featuring Vanitas takes up 80% of this article, which is weak.
 
This info should be integrated with the main BBS video page.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:48, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
:It should also be written ''competently'' before being reinserted into article space.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:49, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
Why don't you just add/delete the video article? You don't need to remove the whole thing. Cococrash11
::Because it's not canon, and we have no idea where it fits into the character's history. It shouldn't be on this page at all.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 10:05, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
{{Maggosh|text=Then by all means, remove articles with the ASAS and Deep Dive summary too, since they contain material not represented in the games either.}}
 
What the heck are you talking about? Vanitas's orgin and first apearnce is Birth By Sleep video just like Master Xehanort. WHy don't you include video in the article? Master Xehnort, Terra,Ventus, and Aqua had one to. Cococrash11
::The Story section is supposed to be a chronological summary of that character's plot. Consider - including the video synopsis 1) claims that it is canon, which it is not, and 2) claims that they did the video before they did their actual story. For example, the way Deep Dive was placed for Riku, it claimed he fought Roxas before going to Castle Oblivion, which is wrong.
 
At most, there should be a mention that "X appeared in secret video Y" in the lead or something. However, those videos ARE NOT CANON, and should only be summarized on their own article.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 23:54, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
 
Wait a second you're saying the the video isn't canon but you don't want to include in it? What the heck look at Terra,Ventus,Aqua, Master Xehanort, and Mickey Mouse they both had the Birth By Sleep video and The Gathering video and they didn't erase it like in Vanitas. In this page why can't Vanitas had both? Vanitas isn't included The Gathering is one thing and he dosen't appear in it I understand but his fisrt appearance is in the Birth By Sleep video. So why isn't Birth By Sleep video article mention in Vanitas? If the video article for Vanitas is too big just make it small enough to not watse space, or just include everything in BBS video about Vanitas in the Vanitas page. I thought you guys want to improve articles in this wikia not erase the truth? Beside you're saying that the Riku in Deep Dive is before he went to Catsle Oblivion who told you that? This happen after KHCOM and 358/2 Days not between KHI and KHCOM. cococrash11
::Please don't be an idiot.
#The placement of the Deep Dive video in Riku's article would be between KH and KHCom, which is incorrect.
#It's specifically not truth, it's un-fucking-canon.
 
If you're unwilling to listen at all to what the other person is saying, then just shut up, please.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 13:23, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
 
Shut up! What you did dosne't make any sense. Beside the secret video deep dive is after KH1 FInal Mix and not the story line but the game producction history you idiot. Cococrash11
 
I will say it again.
 
''THE STORY SECTIONS ARE NOT JUST DESCRIPTIONS OF WHAT THE CHARACTER HAS APPEARED IN.'' They are descriptions, in the style of timelines, of ''what happens to the character during the storyline of the series''.
 
'''As placed, the secret video synopses claim that the characters did those things immediately after KH1 and KH2'''. That is nonsense. Riku did not defeat Roxas immediately after KH1 - he waited two games to do it.
 
This is pretty much exactly what I said two comments ago, and the fact that you're rambling on about production history (when I've been emphasizing the '''CANON STATUS''' as the important point) only shows that you're spending your time complaining instead of actually listening. I know damn well when the videos were produced; however, they are NOT CANON, and DO NOT FIT INTO THE CHARACTER'S PLOT SYNOPSIS, any more than the trading card game does. That is why I suggested that the information pertaining to the secret videos be covered ''specifically'' on that video's page, and to only have a link to it here.
:In the future, instead of complaining in what is barely English, please reread the first person's comment so they don't have to repeat it multiple times.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 20:11, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
:::As for your complaining on my talk page - if you can prove that those are the plots for those games, and not just people assuming things from the small snippets we do know, feel free to add them back in. As that is currently impossible, since the game isn't finished, I kind of doubt you'll be able to. As those pages were, they were making false claims, which is unacceptable.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 20:20, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
 
{{GS|time=20:37, October 31, 2009 (UTC)|text=Okay, the concept videos are confirmed to be nothing more than concepts.  That means they're non-cannon.  It's beyond me why people on this wiki love to continue pointless debates about keeping unnecessary information on pages.  All concept video information will be kept on those articles only.  End of story.}}
 
== Should We Consider Secret Videos As Appearances Per Say? ==
 
{{NeutraVega|I'm bound to get heat for bringing this up, but then again, I always get heat for anything.  The consequences of being a logical contributor...  Anyways, I've noticed on this page, Vanitas has the KHIIFM+ emblem on top of the page which directs to whatever game the character appears in.  But...when you think about it, Vanitas never actually appeared in ANY variation of KHII...  At best, it's the secret video, but should that really count as an IN-GAME appearance..., as opposed to say Ven making a cameo in Days, or Aqua's armor showing up in FM+.  Vanitas never really popped up anywhere....so, I'm just kind of curious if that should really stand as it is.}}
{{Maggosh|text=Well, technically, he made his first appearance in the secret video, so I say  keep it.
And I do believe the phrase is 'Per se', not 'Per say'. :P}}
{{NeutraVega|I guess...but what about all the other articles?  It's inconsistent as a fuckall. Once again, I think this is just a case of the jitter fever where a new character gets introduced, and everyone is all excited as hell to cram in as much stuff in as possible...  Also...it works either way, "per say" and "per se."  Neither is incorrect. :P}}
{{Maggosh|text=Well, then, I stand corrected.}}
{{KrytenKoro|I had not noticed that. It should be removed, as Nomura has categorically said that the secret videos are uncanon. You're definitely right about that.
 
"per se (also '''misspelled''' as "per say", "persay" or "persai")"
 
As for "always get heat for anything" - no, you get heat when you act like an arrogant ass. Don't do it, and you'll get along fine.}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Oh, boy...<!--And the war rages on-->...}}
 
{{NeutraVega|"Persai?"  ...Who in the world came up with that one?  Sounds like some bizarre Chinese Prince of Persia MMO ripoff...}}
 
== Sephiroth? Irrelevant. ==
 
Vanitas being similar to Sephiroth is completely irrelevant. When I used to say irrelevant things it would get deleted. This is as well.
 
::Well, the fact that Nomura makes some stupid joke about voicing him doesn't either. As I had said, let staff decide. Trivia is filled with the irrelevant. Accept it. - [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|EternalNothingnessXIII]] 21:37, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
{{Maggosh|text=Hence, 'trivia'.}}
{{EO|time=21:42, November 6, 2009 (UTC)|hooded=Maggosh, are you on MY side in this? And to the other guy (can't remember your name atm), things are only "irrelevant and delete-worthy" when in the actual ARTICLE! Look around at the countless other pages. Tons of redundant facts galore.}}
{{Maggosh|text=Yes, I am, indeed, on your side. Merely emphasizing the fact that trivia has no correlation.}}
::Using the exact same quote as another character designed by the same person is not irrelevant, though.
::Anon, if someone disagrees with your edit, you discuss it on the talk page, you don't get into an edit war, or you'll get temporarily blocked. If you are unable to have patience in a discussion, then you're not actually discussing, you're just demanding you get your way. That's not how it works.
::EO, the wiki is not ruled by the staff. A better reason for reverting the anon's edit was that he hadn't discussed it or given an edit reason, which is what needs to be done when removing content (unless blatantly vandalism). But if you two can come to a cordial decision on your own, that is much preferable than dragging the staff into it.
::I've changed it to something that uses the most recent use of that quote by a Nomura character, in what I feel is a more likely analogy. However, it's still a very common thing for the bad guy to say, so it would be fair to remove it if there is still contriversy.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:23, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
I realized the potential edit war. That was why I mentioned staff. I know how things work. Sephiroth has more to do with than Garland, however. We could phrase it as :
 
*Vanitas/Sephiroth thing...(insert Garland connection here)
 
That way, we add even MORE redundancy. Sephiroth has the plot connection, and Garland has the character creator connection. - [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|EternalNothingnessXIII]] 22:27, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
 
 
...
<blockquote>This is a battle quote utilized by Sephiroth, another man who turns to darkness and abandons his old allegiences in the ''Final Fantasy series'', similar to how this Keyblade warrior falls to the dark and leaves the Keyblade masters of the Realm of Light. </blockquote>
 
Replace "Sephiroth" with "Garland" and you still have a true statement. Hell, Garland turns more literally to darkness than Sephiroth, who just throws a mega-tantrum. And Garland ''literally'' leaves the masters of Light, and is a parallel to the "Warrior of Light" (coughcough Ventus coughcough). Then, we have that Sephiroth has already appeared as a totally separate character in KH, negating any possibility for him to be Vanitas.
:If we keep the trivia note at all, Garland and not Sephiroth should be used, I think. There's just no way that a Vanitas-Sephiroth connection would "mean" anything, since Vanitas is explicitly not Sephiroth.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:37, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
::There's no way he'd be Garland though. I'd say the only fair thing we do is come up with some way to combine the two. They're both right. - [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|EternalNothingnessXIII]] 22:40, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
:::I honestly think that using Sephiroth is stretching it, though, since Shinra was never the paragon of light, and Sephiroth didn't so much go straight to Darkness as just decide that everyone else was evil.
:::I guess it is somewhat relevant in that Sephiroth uses the quote within the KH series, but it's still pushing it to relate Vanitas to him, I feel.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:49, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
I know, Kryten, and I respect your opinion. Don't get me wrong. We really don't know how Vanitas tursn to darkness, or how/why/if he even does. I think we should stick with Sephiroth, as he's actually in KH. As I said, I think we could somehow mention Garland, as well. - [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|EternalNothingnessXIII]] 22:52, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
 
{{NeutraVega|Well this topic takes the cake for ultimate pointlessness...  Do I need to repeat what I've been trying to say past few weeks?  ''Don't add what isn't necessary!''  It's really not that critical...}}
::If your sum total of "contribution" is to come in and say "Look at me!", then please go the fuck away. You are annoying as all get out.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 00:06, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 
I agreed! You've been nothing, but trouble lately! You're worst than everyone at school I know! What the heck is your problem, anyway!?! I'm sick of you! Seeing you strut around like you're always right! OUI'NA YH YCCRUMA!--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 00:10, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
:Calling someone an asshole, even in another language should not be tolerated. NinjaSheik don't do it again and apologize as your intervention in this discussion was pointless and rude. --{{User:Yer mom/Sig}} 00:22, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 
Fine, I'm sorry for cursing. But, that doesn't chnage how I feel...<!--If we're not allow to cruse, then how come Sir Kryten is always cursing?-->--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 00:25, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 
:One thing is cursing during a conversation and another completely different thing is directly insulting someone. Some people are fine with cursing and some aren't but what is NOT tolerated is a direct attack towards a user. That's exactly why we ban trolls who blank out talk pages and why we don't encourage editors to leave hate messages in said troll's talk pages along with the warnings. --{{User:Yer mom/Sig}} 00:29, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 
Okay...Sorry.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 00:33, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 
{{NeutraVega|Rofl, ok ok.  I'm sorry.  Vanitas is exactly like Garland.  You're right. :)  I'll fix that right up.}}
Somehow, I just don't see the connection. Can you please explain how Vanitas, a character who has not had that many lines of dialoge, is similar to Garland, a character who has very little personality. <span style="font-family:Lucida Handwriting">[[User:Ultima The High Seraph|<font color="#1E90FF ">Ult</font>]][[User talk:Ultima The High Seraph|<font color="#000080 ">ima</font>]]</span> 08:20, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
:NV: no one was arguing over content with you. I was asking you to just leave, because you are completely insufferable in your inability to just discuss the article with others without calling other editors idiots and generally acting like a know-it-all. Plus, the whole vandalizing the article to be facetious.
:Ultima: It's a connection that's barely there, but if people want to mention that shared line of dialogue, Garland is the most recent character Nomura was involved with that used that line, and he does have a similar basic plot. However, it's really nothing at all - really, it's just that any connection with Sephiroth isn't useful. It's perfectly acceptable, at least from my point of view, to remove the trivia line completely, because it's a very generic "evil rival" thing to say.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 08:30, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
{{NeutraVega|Now, what is it with you?  Why do you always have to make everything so personal?  Do you even know how childish that is?}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Can someone...Um, explain to me about that triva that was added by NeutraVega? It was speculation and I thought we hated speculation, so...Oh, never mind.}}
{{NeutraVega|Apparently not.  I too thought it was pointless to add Garland, but if any of the above posts proved, we MUST have Garland in the article.  So I added it.  Then they deleted it.  Lol.  This wiki is so insensibly awesome.  ''No one makes any sense!''}}
{{KrytenKoro|Eh. It basically boils down to "the annoyance of having to add any info to the wiki that you would have if you were still here" <<< "the annoyance of having to deal with your unhelpful bile on the talk pages every other day". After all, why should I tolerate your attacks on other editors when I can just do all of your job myself for exponentially less aggravation?}}
{{NeutraVega|That'd make sense if you were doing my job as your job without any aggravation.  But the fact remains, as long as I'm making edits, adding images, and fixing things up here and there, you aren't doing it.  I am.  So the aggravation remains.  But it's okay.  I can still be your friend. :)}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Um...Did I say or did anything wrong...?}}
:And from your edits, the only contributions I can see are small edits to the trivia. I think I can safely say that if you were not able to be here, the trivia would be safely handled by anyone else. As I told you a while back, if you want to claim that you're helpful, do it without trying to make the other editors miserable. You aren't the golden boy you think you are, and if you want to be respected, you can't have that attitude.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 01:43, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
 
== Vanitas = Leon ==
 
Before I begin, sorry if this isn't formated right. ANYWAYS, I was thinking the other day about Vanitas' true identity and I just so happen to be reading Leon's bio, it says that Leon changed his name to escape his past, well maybe Leon was ashamed of what he did with Master Xehenort and changed his name. Plus look at the end of Leon's gunblade, there's a key chain that Leon could've modified to turn his Keyblade into a gunblade. Leon would be about 15 during the events of Birth By Sleep, puting him around the age of Terra, Aqua, and Ventus. I know this theory is a little shaky, but I'd like your thoughts. Ookami Hitomatome 21:25, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 
{{NitrousX|xmastext=Well, for one thing, Leon's former name was Squall. Plus, he's a Final Fantasy character, so I don't think they'd use him in that kind of role. Sorry to burst your theory bubble.}}
 
 
I know his name was Squall, but he could've changed his to hide is identity. Plus he's the only character right now that could be him, they say that Vanitas' identity would be reveled at the end of Birth By Sleep. Ookami Hitomatome 22:11, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
::What he means is that the story explicitly says that Leon used to be named Squall, but changed his name due to shame he felt for failing during the ''evacuation'' of Hollow Bastion, not some unspecific darkness in his past. Most likely due to the group losing Cloud, or some other FF character. While Leon sure knows more about the Keyblade than is reasonable, it is completely possible he learned it just from the Ansem Reports (which they do claim, at one point).[[Special:Contributions/128.210.26.20|128.210.26.20]] 22:16, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
{{NitrousX|xmastext=Yeah, but you're forgetting the whole "Don't use FF characters that way" thing.}}
 
Yea...true.... OK. I'm turning this post into a "Find Vanitas' Identity" thing. Who could possibly be Vanitas besides any FF character?
 
Ookami Hitomatome 22:27, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 
:Vanitas is probably the Darkness in Ventus' heart or something... '''<font face="Trebuchet MS"><span style="background:#3300CC">[[User:Bluerfn|<span style="color:white"><sup>BLUER</sup></span>]]</span>[[User talk:Bluerfn|<span style="color:#CC0011">一番</span>]]</font>''' 16:12, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 
== Vanitas's identity  ==
 
I honestly dont care if they dont reavel who he is, that mask thing looks awesome!
imo Vanitas is the Young version of Xahnort who was in kingdom hearts, he probobly gose insane with power, takes his masters name, and at the end of the game is found by ansem the wise.--[[User:Foutlet|Foutlet]] 20:47, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
 
It couldnt be Xehenort because he was working with Ansem the Wise
 
Ookami Hitomatome 00:01, December 2, 2009 (UTC)
 
 
Possibly Vanitas could be: Ansem the wise. Terra's Emboiment of darkness [Xehanort] (like cloud/Sephorth).
It's not Leon, Leon doesnt make that important relevance in Kigndom Hearts series. Not as much as terra and DIZ
 
Could be Riku's Dad
 
Could be Terra's Mirror of himself... it could possibly be what terra TRULY is...DARKNESS
 
 
. That's why Master Xehanort asks him to try and defeat Vanitas because he wants to test Terra to see if he can really beat darkness itself. or will he eventually succumb to darkness..............
 
 
{{Venkix|text= Hmm... your theory could be possibly correct.}}
 
== Vanitas's voice actor ==
 
In KH13.com it said Vanitas has the same voice as Sora. --[[User:Cococrash11|Cococrash11]] 21:24, December 19, 2009 (UTC)Cococrash11
 
 
naaaaah it can't be
 
 
People saying "Oh, he sounded like so'n'so" is not actual confirmation. Is there an interview, a magazine article, was it mentioned on the actor's website? Is there anything that's an actual source, and not just people trying to recognize a voice from a trailer? [[User:HarpieSiren|HarpieSiren]] 22:14, December 19, 2009 (UTC)
 
I don't think there is anything saying that they share a voice but Vanitas does sound a bit like Sora, only older but seeing all the mystery surrounding Vanitas we'll probably have to wait until the game comes out in a couple of weeks.--[[User:Masgrande|Masgrande]] 01:30, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
 
== Xemnas limit = All VANITY ==
 
Coincidence ?
Vanitas = Vanity ... We do know Vanitas has a connection to Ven... Maybe his fight against Terra made him forget everything... maybe Terra's essence and his will fuse somehow during Terra's sacrifice in order to get rid of him or something... thus creating the empty shell Xehanort. The story is forced to end badly for Terra, so either he becomes Xehanort, either he dies trying to kill Xehanort or his apprentice. But I think he's responsible for the "new" Xehanort.--[[User:Ataradesu|Ataradesu]] 01:55, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
>{{MasterAqua|time=22:04, January 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=I hate to say it but I really disagree with the theory that Terra is connected to Xenahort.I could be wrong but I think that the whole hair connection isn't really anything but a coincadince. The time and facts it would take to prove that theory would probably take more than hair similarities, knowing that it would be a big connection. Another pont is that of Vanitas. The trailers show that Terra seeks possibly to destroy Vanitas knowing that Xenahort told him how Vanitas needed to be destroyed. Yet I think teh secret of Vanitas lyes within Ven's hands. Vanitas wants to make Ven stronger, which would lead to the possibility that if anyone was connected with Vanitas, it was Ven. Another point of mine is that ten years ago, heartless didn't exist. We still don't know if Unversed are capable of what the Heartless can do, therefore, there probably wern't any nobodies. Lastly, Xenahort's HEART was taken. If Xenahort was of any part of Terra, he wouldn't have been able to produce a nobody and heartless. Yet he did. }}
 
==KHIIFM==
{{EO|time=00:33, December 30, 2009 (UTC)|shocked=What became of the story information on ''Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix'''s secrect ending? The other pages have them... last time I checked. Or is this redundant/pointless?}}
{{KrytenKoro|They shouldn't have them. Only the (video) page should have that summary.}}
 
{{HeartFallout|time=03:57, December 31, 2009 (UTC)|text= Honestly, whoever Vanitas is, He seems real friggin' awsome from the trailers.}}
 
== Not Xehanort's Apprentice ==
 
{{Template:ST|time=13:35, December 31, 2009 (UTC)|text=In the new trailer, Vanitas is spoken about as a threat that appeared, not a keyblade apprentice that went rogue. is it possible that xehanort and Vanitas are just allies instead of master and apprentice?}}
 
I think it's Xehanort's plan in order to gain the trios trust. [[Special:Contributions/80.101.62.155|80.101.62.155]] 21:45, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
 
== Not Xehanort ==
 
{{Xiggie|time=00:37, January 2, 2010 (UTC)|text=I think that we can cross out the theory of Vanitas being the [[Xehanort]] we know.
 
We know that Xehanort had white hair and white eyebrows, and in the newly released picture of [[:File:Vanitas eye.jpg|Vanitas's eye]], he has black eyebrows! does that mean that he isn't Xehanort? I'd say so!}}
 
{{Maggosh|text=Isn't it possible for it to change?}}
 
{{Xabryn|text=we kepp with the theory of Terra being Xehanort and his eyes and hair color are also differents(I feel bad for disagreeing with your theory, i don't want Vanitas to be Xehanort but these are the facts)}}
 
== An idea for Vanitas' Appearance. ==
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/2d7sh2p.png
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/Picture5-1.png
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/2d7sh2p2.png
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/2d7sh2p3.png
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/2d7sh2p4.png
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/Picture6-1.png
 
Is there a familiar face under that Daft Punk helmet? You decide.
 
{{Xiggie|time=08:57, January 5, 2010 (UTC)|talk=I really doubt that they'll put in yet another Roxas :P but Vanitas's eyebrows resemble Sora's a lot, and since Vanitas sounds similar to Sora (a bit older though)... one can only wonder...}}
{{JFHavoc|time=09:01, January 5, 2010 (UTC)|text=I hope he doesn't look like Roxas. I think Ven looking like Roxas is ridiculous enough. And if he looks like Sora, that's just too many look-a-likes in one game for me. Amazing observation though.}}
I'm really quite curious, where is it ever said that eye is Vanitas's? We need confirmation that it's supposed to be Vanitas. [[Special:Contributions/24.165.55.99|24.165.55.99]] 00:50, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
{{Xabryn|time=[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 01:57, January 6, 2010 (UTC)|text=if you see the vid you will see that the eye is Vanitas's, the eye style from KH original characters are pretty much the same, about the hair well there is more than one character that could have a hair like this}}
 
{{Venkix|text= I agree with JFhavoc. There's enough look a likes already. But that was a great theory though..}}
{{MasterX|vanitas= Personally, I think that Ven and Vanitas are unrelated, it's more of the Sora-Riku relatiinship, as Vanitas says he needs to make Ven stronger. Therfore, they couldn't possibly be the same. Look at the new Famitsu scan. Vanitas reaches out to Ventus, reflecting Riku and Sora in the opening of KH2. They aren't the same person. End of.}}
{{Maggosh|text=I'm assuming you're Grace Assassin on the KHinsider forums.}}
I have seen the trailer, in fact it must be about 10 times by now. But I fail to see any proof that the eye is Vanitas's. Unless it's stated in an interview that came out with the trailer or something, then so far the idea that it's his eye is speculation. [[Special:Contributions/24.165.55.99|24.165.55.99]] 03:52, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
{{KKD|time=04:12, January 7, 2010 (UTC)|riku=As somebody said before, where is the proof that it is Vanitas' eye? @Xabryn show some proof. The video only shows a picture of ven with a golden eye over it. it could be anyone (not literally.) Vanitas and Ventus are probably linked somehow, but we'll just have to wait to find out. OOH! Just thought of something awesome! MasterXehanort stated that Vanitas/Ventus is a riku/sora-like relationship. There really isn't anything special about Sora during BBS as far as we know. What if both Vanitas and Ventus were "erased" and found their way into Sora and Riku?  Or they merged with the two somehow. (we already know there is a connection between sora and ven, look at roxas.) Or is it possible that Vanitas is an unversed? Vanitas also has a lot of the same mannerisms as Riku (battle stance, gestures) same with ventus and Sora (Quote: My friends are my power is spoken by both of them). And aqua will have something to do with Kairi. And Terra will go on to be Xehanort as we know him. (This is all theory on my part.)}}
{{LapisScarab|time=04:16, January 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=The video does not just show a picture of Ven with a gold eye over it. It is Vanitas' eye behind his helmet.}}
No, the trailer just shows Ven with a golden eye before him. You're guessing that it belongs to Vanitas, but that doesn't mean it's undeniably his. Show osme proof, like a developer quote or something. Because the trailer doens't make it clear who the eye belongs to. [[Special:Contributions/24.165.55.99|24.165.55.99]] 20:41, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
You guys are retards. The scans are comparing Vanitas' eye and hair placement with that of Roxas/Ventus and then with Sora's. Roxas/Ventus is a no go, but Sora is a match. And famatsu has shown in scans that the eye belongs to Vanitas.
::To the IP: You can see parts of Vanitas's helmet in that image, and the immediate scene is Ventus looking at Vanitas. It is so obviously Vanitas's eye that it is ridiculous.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 21:54, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
{{MasterAqua|time=22:11, January 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=I think that Vanitas will resemble mostly Ven, since that is the upmost possibility as to whom he is connected to. As for SOra, Sora is almost definantly connected to Ven, therefore it could be of them both. PLus, if there is supposed to be THE kayblade weilders right then as well for both light and dark, and since mickey is still in training at the time, the one for the side of dark could be Vanitas.}}
 
{{KKD|time=01:31, January 8, 2010 (UTC)|riku=Sorry, I didn't really look at the image that well. I see now that it is Vanitas' eye. I was foucsed on they eye and Ventus, and I didn't realize that it was a reflection off of his helmet. Once again, my bad.}}
 
{{Xiggie|time=23:44, January 8, 2010 (UTC)|happy=<big><big>'''*SPOILER*'''</big></big>
 
Turns out, you were right! it is a black haired Sora under that helmet! He is somehow made from Ventus's darkness... or something like that...}}
 
{{Maggosh|text=Pardon my French, but Aw, fuck you Xigbar! >:(}}
 
{{LapisScarab|time=23:51, January 8, 2010 (UTC)|text=Argh! I can't believe they were that un-creative (assuming that is a word) about it! EDIT: I mean, come on! They made such a big deal about Vanitas' appearance, and they just ended up recycling an old character's face! It was enough of a stretch with Ven and Roxas, but todo it twice?! Nomura, you're better than that! ...Rant over.}}
Yeah! Now that I know whats under the hood (read what Xiggie read), I decided to do a picture on it that took me a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time! It can hopefully be seen...
here:[[File:143288-51063-sora_thumb.jpg]]-Master Aqua 04:33, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
== Vanitas' identity ==
 
I think you all are wrong. Vanitas is meant to be a new  character. He is not a character from the older kh series. He is most certainly not Sora or Ven, or Xehanort. There is supposed to not be aany connection between him and an older character.
 
{{MasterX|time=21.01|xehanort= Yes, Vanitas is a new character. I agree on that. But he has a link to Riku, as he uses Riku's battle stance. And, as Xehanort's apprentice, he must have a link to the other Xehanort. In Kingdom Hearts, all Worlds are connected, therefore all characters are connected. I don't believe that Vanitas is entirely new. He has links to other characters. He may be Xehanort. He may not be. But all will be revealed soon. We need only watch and wait. }}
 
{{Yumekai|time=00:33, January 7, 2010 (UTC)|text= Let us not underestimate him as a major character. Testuya continuously stresses his importance, by saying stuff like, "His identity will be revealed" leaving fans to speculate and wonder.}}
 
{{LapisScarab|time=00:44, January 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=I'm fairly certain that Tetsuya Nomura has directly stated that all the characters from the BbS video (i.e. MX, Vanitas, Terra, Ventus, and Aqua) were new characters. Unless he was talking in some Obi-Wan Kenobi, "technically true" way, which I doubt. Not much point inspeculating anymore anyway, since the game is a mere three days away from release (tack on a day or two for info to come out).}}
 
{{Yumekai|time=04:21, January 7, 2010 (UTC)|text= But if that's true what happened to Xehanort? It is the Xehanort's memories part of the series, I think that one of them must be Xehanort, unless he's talking about some big alteration}}
 
{{LapisScarab|time=04:27, January 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=That's sort of what I meant by "Obi-Wan Kenobi way of talking". He may have meant that one of the characters in the secret video changes so much personality and appearance-wise that they are basically a different person. I hope that isn't what he meant though, because I would like to see how they answer the mysteries without resorting to a cliched plot twist like that.}}
 
{{MasterX|time=20.06|vanitas= I think that Xehanort is connected to the story, but probably not through Vanitas or Terra. Hell, maybe not even through Master Xehanort. Besides, with the game two days away, we really don't need to read too much into Vanitas. Also, I noticed that Terra is looking for a 'friend' who lost is heart (A Nobody?) who could be Vanitas, as when it is said, Terra is holding Ven. That rules out Ven losing his heart. And Ven and Vanitas being part of Sora and Riku? It's a thought, but unlikely. Besides these 'new' characters probably have some influence or role in the series we know, in a way that will probably leave us gobsmacked.}}
>{{MasterAqua|time=22:18, January 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=GO OBI-WAN!!!
sorry, big Star Wars fan.
 
I think that the Xenahort we know of today is connected to --Xenahort. I don't know if I'm remembering this clearly, but I think that when he came to Ansem the Wise, his memory was gone all except for his name. He also remembered he was from some war. He could be from a character we have no idea about from all the way back to the keyblade wars. Or he was remembering wrong. He WAS in a battle, in the middle of teh place the keyblade wars took place. Plus, Xenahort (BBS) was pretty much obsessed with two things: Kingdom Hearts and the Keyblade wars. THis could be entirerly wrong it is just something that could be thought about.}}
>{{MasterAqua|time=22:24, January 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=About your idea for the losing heart thing, Kairi lost her heart and she was in the same state Ven was in. PLus, heartless wern't around at the time, so Ven could have just gone into that state Kairi was in. Another thing is that Vanitas is the enemy, adn Terra AND Aqua ask for their friends heart back, I think also when Ven knows he was losing his heart, or when he awoke, that was when he was asking Aqua to erase him. Seeing as that is pretty much impossible if you have a heart, maybe for a little while while losing his heart, he was in a nobody state. Aqua was also almost definantly not friends with Vanitas anyway. She had no idea who he was, she fights him alot, it could have been him she was asking for her friends heart back from, adn he took her down!}}
 
== Vanitas is almost certainly an Unversed: ==
 
[[wikipedia:Vanitas|Vanitas]]: a type of symbolic work of art especially associated with Northern European '''still life painting''' in Flanders and the Netherlands in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, though also common in other places and periods. The word is Latin, meaning "emptiness" and loosely translated corresponds to the meaninglessness of earthly life and the transient nature of vanity...Vanitas themes were common in '''medieval funerary art''', with most surviving examples in sculpture. By the 15th century these could be extremely morbid and explicit, reflecting an '''increased obsession with death and decay''' also seen in the Ars moriendi, Danse Macabre and the overlapping motif of the Memento mori.
 
 
[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 15:16, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
>{{MasterAqua|time=22:31, January 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=That is a very good asumption! THough I still believe him to be connected to Ven, it could still happen! Did we see Vanitas before Ven starts losing his heart? Ven could have been losing his heart, while Xneahort was gathering all the peices to make his evil little apprentice. Since Ven had light in his heart, Xenahort could have used some of that light from his heart to give Vanitas the ability to weild the keyblade! Yeah I have random outbursts of ideas, well, randomly. But that could be really close as to unveiling Vanitas's identity!}}
 
{{KKD|time=01:34, January 8, 2010 (UTC)|demyx=considering this is Kingdom Hearts, I wouldn't put that out of the question. very nice find!}}
 
{{Venkix|text= Well his identity has already been revealed. Its already on HeartStation.org}}
 
== Regarding The Spoilers ==
 
{{NeutraVega|So the speculative nonsense starts to pop up again; as legit as they may appear, I honestly don't trust 2ch worth a lick for this sort of information, among early players.  I think it's a very, very wise idea to lock up as many BBS entries and just wait it out until the cutscenes themselves are posted online.  AKA, ''reliable'' sources.  The shit is gonna not just hit the fan, but destroy it when more spoilers start pouring out.  It's probably a good idea to control it before that happens. And it's already gearing up...}}
:{{KrytenKoro|Okay, same policy as last time - no unmarked story spoilers. Anyone posting those gets a warning. Names and items only.
 
Furthermore, I'd like to say - I really don't like the misassembled "stories" that are thrown up there based on snippets from trailers or youtube. I say we leave the story ''alone'' until we can get comprehensive information.}}
 
{{Maggosh|text=I agree. Lock up as many BbS articles as possible.}}
{{KrytenKoro|For three months, I've locked down Aqua, Terra, Ventus, Eraqus, Xehanort, Vanitas, Braig, Dilan, Even, Aeleus, Ienzo, Sai, Lea. If request other any there are, do so I will.}}
{{Randomnessity|time=18:35, January 8, 2010 (UTC)|text=What about the main Birth by Sleep page for the game itself? and Mickey too.}}
 
{{Maggosh|text=And Xehanort himself. Considering BbS explains Xehanort's existence.}}
 
I thought the whole three months thing was gonna change.--[[User:Masgrande|Masgrande]] 23:37, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
== Voice Actor Credits==
 
The recent live stream had the credits. Vanitas is voiced by Miyu Irino.[[User:Sonickenshin|Sonickenshin]] 20:22, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
{{Venkix|text= Yes that is correct.}}
==Boss Page==
Using the Live Stream gameplay, would it be all right if I created a Vanitas (Boss) page? Or would that be too spoiler-heavy? - [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|EternalNothingnessXIII]] 23:51, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
:We already knew he was a boss, so I don't see why it would be a spoiler.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 00:03, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
So that's a green light? Perfect! I'm also planning to add the Magic Mirror boss page, as well as add a BBS section to Maleficent (Dragon)'s. Should I format the renders of the new characters in the character infobox, or should I just let the thumbnail image float? The only thing we really have is a guess at HP, anyways... - [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|EternalNothingnessXIII]] 00:08, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
keep in mind that he's a multiple time boss in the terra live stream he's fought alongside
Master Xeanort,And he's fought variously in both Ven and aqua's story's,so you're gonna need to look at a lot of Videos.
 
== Vanitas face finally revealed ==
 
Vanitas' face has finally been revealed fully. To me it looks weird how he can fit all his hair in that helmet.
[[File:Vanitasface.jpg|full|it looks weird]]
[[User:Maxiboi|Maxiboi]] 07:41, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
{{LapisScarab|time=07:49, January 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=Look up further on the page. We've known for a bit, but it's nice to have an actual picture. Or it would be if Vanitas wasn't just a black *slams head on table* haired *does so again* Sora *slams head once more, coma follows*}}
{{Firaga44|text=Wow i expected Vantias to look a little different not like Sora with black hair.........}}
{{LapisScarab|time=08:06, January 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=*sigh* Well, at least they keep him in his helmet most of the time, and they seems to have given him a "total nutcase" personality from the crazy laugh an this picture, which is sure to make things interesting.}}
 
Now that just leaves one final question: Ventus looks like Roxas and Sora looks like Vanitas...what the hell is Sora? [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 08:07, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
Sora is Sora, as far as can be seen.  The trailers make a point of showing him in the future, and he's obviously there as a four year old, on a World where no Darkness exists.  Perhaps he, not unlike Gozer or Zuul, is a god who must pre-choose his form?  I.E.  Hell is I know.  KH3 will hopefully answer that, lest we just agree Sora has an overly large family. [[Special:Contributions/203.105.95.93|203.105.95.93]] 10:26, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
{{MasterX|time=13.39|xemnas= Why were they so unoriginal with Vanitas? Born of Ven's Darkness, looking like Sora with black hair. It seems they ran short of ideas, and crammed in rip-offs. Though I do wonder what the hell the real connection is between Ven, Vanitas, Sora and Roxas. (Smashes wall in rage)}}
{{Randomnessity|happy=I was expecting '''SO''' much more. I had no idea what was going to be behind that freaking awesome helmet, but a black-haired Sora? I guess this means he'll probably will be voiced by Haley Joel Osment here in America.}}
 
{{MasterX|time=15.55|xemnas= I know. I was expecting there to be more under the helmet than a copy. I suppose you're right, Randomnessity, Haley Joel Osment probably will voice Vanitas in English. How I hate copies!}}
 
{{KKD|time=16:28, January 9, 2010 (UTC)|axel=*headdesk* This game left more questions then it answered. And, seeing as there is no new game in the visible future (excluding coded), fans are gonna go crazy speculating.}}
 
{{LOMI|Burn=Due to everything worth saying having already been said.....
 
<nowiki>*HEADDESK*
*FACEPALM*
*FACEFOOT*
</nowiki>
 
I'm done now}}
{{Saxisai|time=17:51, January 9, 2010 (UTC)|happy=i knew it! i called it a while back! :P I am obviously happy that it turned out that he was a black haired Sora, but I am upset like the rest of you that they just re-used a character design. It left us with more questions then answers...}}
 
{{Venkix|text= So HeartofOblivion was right after all. But I'm pretty sure they are going to explain more in the upcomming game.}}
 
{{KKD|time=21:56, January 9, 2010 (UTC)|lux=Can anybody explain why the kingdom key is in the picture? and @Venkix, what upcoming game? Coded won't explain anything, and as far as I know, KHIII hasn't been announced yet. Was I living under a rock or something?}}
 
{{DDark|time=[[User:D.Dark.|D.Dark.]] 22:17, January 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=Sora,Roxas,Vanitas and Ven. These four now have a seriously confusing connection with no clue....Vanitas = Sora's father? He does look somewhat older then say Ven. }}
{{LapisScarab|time=22:41, January 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=@KKD Nomura has confired that there is a third console game in the series, though beyond confirming that it exists, he hasn't said anythiing about it.}}
{{KKD|time=22:55, January 9, 2010 (UTC)|riku=Ok, I remember that. But I don't think he's given it a name or even anything but the fact that its gonna happen.}}

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