Editing Talk:Vanitas

==He is the Xheanort we know==
Look at it this way, "Xheanort" has a habit of stealing his master's names, his "Heartless" armor is also passed down from Xheanort's heartless to Riku, his new apprentice, he even took his master's clothes when he turned into a heartless, also, it is never stated that his name is "Xheanort" It's just the only name he remembers, this makes sense to me, seeing as how Master Xheanort would have been a very powerful figure in his memory.

{{Xiggie|text=Well, it could be him, '''OR''' Terra (See my [http://khxiggie.blogcentral.is/blog/2009/2/1/who-is-xehanort/ blog] about this, and please comment)}}

I was the one who made that theory NO JOKE visit my [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/User:Kingdomheartsfreek#Kingdom_Hearts_BBS| home page] all that u need to know about that theory is there

Death Messenger - Makes sense. Perhaps Vanitas stole Terra's body, that's why Xehanort is so much like Terra.

Also, it all fits. His name means Vanity or Nothingness. It matches Xehanort's Heartless and Xemnas perfectly!

{{NeutraVega|I don't see why it matters.  Keep this kind of speculation at KHI.  kthxbye}}
{{TNE|time=00:02, October 30, 2009 (UTC)|blahtext=Had I my way I'd have given you a second warning for Wikimisconduct.}}

{{NeutraVega|Rofl.  For?  Where have I committed misconduct exactly here?  What vile evils have I unleashed upon thee...?}}

== Trailer Info ==

Some of the Birth by Sleep Trailers Have been leaked. in one Master Xehanort Says "Those who Submit to darkness are not qualified to Wield the keyblade. already that man" Cuts to apprentice as he says this "has become a monster consumed by Darkness. use your power to defeat the darkness and correct my mistake." these trailers are on youtube. you might have to dig around a bit but it's there. should be mentioned in a article edit for link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuoA5DL_oM0&feature=related

i wonder why xehanort actually says that when in the final mix secret ending he seems to be fighting together with his apprentice and not against him --[[User:Darksoldier|Darksoldier]] 12:47, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

maybe he changed his mind or that scene happens before this one

== Heartless Possibility ==

Has anyone considered the possibilty that the aprentice isn't an aprentice at all, but is 
in fact Master Xhanort's heartless? After all, in the birth by sleep video they seemed to spit from one being, with one (Master Xehanort) keeping the phisical shape of the original the way that a powerful Nobody does, and the other (the apprentice) becoming more heartless like. Another thing is that the "Apprentice" finished Master Xeanort's sentence in one of the trailers. This did not seem to suprise Master Xehanort or Ven, as if the apprentice ''should'' know what his master is about to say.
--[[User:Hulon2|Hulon2]] 14:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

{{TNE|text=If that is so, then MX is a Nobody... which seems rather impossible as he is able to wield the Keyblade. Right ? MX looks like anyone who would have a heart, through and through, even if he's the antagonist in the game, and even if he wants to acquire Kingdom Hearts.}}

He ''would'' be able to use a Keyblade because, as it says in the article on Keyblades, they are connected to your soul, not your heart. So a Nobody can use a Keyblade because they still have souls. For example, both Roxas and Xion use Keyblades, even though they are Nobodies. As for looking as if he has a heart, who can tell. Axel seemed very heartful to me, but he's a Nobody.--[[User:Hulon2|Hulon2]] 13:34, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

{{TNE|text=It's connected to the soul of the '''wielder''', who himself has to have a strong heart.}}

Well, Roxas was able to weild a Keyblade, two in fact, and he didn't have a heart, so maybe it's the same case with this guy. [[User:Keyblader|Keyblader]] 22:48, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

{{TNE|blahtext=The only reason why Roxas was able was because of Sora.

And then, if you think about it, those two didn't act '''instinctively''', did they ? They seemed to have planned every single attack of theirs. Heartless act by instinct alone.}}

Yes, MX fought like he had a plan, ''but'' the "Apprentice" just leapt out and started bashing away. 
Later, he noticed the tornado of blades and leapt on to it without stopping at all to think.--[[User:Hulon2|Hulon2]] 13:34, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

{{TNE|text=And he did it well, didn't he ? Tacticians don't always hesitate during battle. Think Sephiroth.}}

I guess we'll know when the game comes out. After all it could be something that none of us have even thought of. After all, if people could figure out they big secret from just watching the trailers, the game wouldn't sell well. They want people to wonder so they make the trailers purposefully vague. Seriously, who could guess that Roxas was Sora's Nobody using only the ''Another Side Another Story'' video?--[[User:Hulon2|Hulon2]] 14:31, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

{{TNE|text=True. Let's wait and see...}}

I think MX apprentice is really the xehanort that we know --KHF 19:53, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Eh, it really could go either way, couldn't it? I personally doubt that the Apprentice is a Heartless, but you never do know. After all, he uses a keyblade - wethether the blade's attatched to the soul or the heart, it doesn't matter, because then they couldn't both use a keyblade. Then agian, it might have something to do with those chains...or rather, lack therof. No, wait, The Apprentice and MX both have chains. Okay, I'm lost. But, since Roxas did use a keyblade, despite being a Nobody, I don't think it's fair to just shoot down his theroy. The only problem is whether or not a heartless can use a keyblade, which is, obviously, unlikey. But then agian... Yeah, I don't know. [[User:Keyblade Mage|Keyblade Mage]] 13:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC)Keyblade Mage

== Speculation ==
{{yer mom|text=There is a lot of speculation in the Trivia, should we add a special part for theories or leave it where it is? (Some of those theories sound like nonsense tho...}}

like what?--KHF 19:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

i agree with that. there should be a theorys secttion , and some of it does sound like nonsense so you should add a section nammed that too! :D.
but im not in charga that so.....

{{NeutraVega|Oh god, PLEASE no theories section...}}
{{Maggosh|text=...And you are?}}
:{{NeutraVega|Tetsuya Nomura.}}

I agree with NeutraVega. A theories section would defeat the purpose of the wiki being for facts. We will add information as it is given to us by the game designers, not add our ideas of what the designers ''might'' say. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 20:52, October 23, 2009 (UTC)


:{{NeutraVega|Lapis, my man, I truly wish that was the case.  But alas, there is a wide variety of morons to be found about up in here that tend to contest logic, information, and reasoning with pure drivel and nonsense.}}
{{TNE|time=02:14, October 24, 2009 (UTC)|text=There you go again, Neutra... Forget the theories section, only the few bits of speculation should be left there. At least for Xion, we had one, and the page was vandalised.}}

I don't think it's necessary to go that far, Neutra. There's no harm in speculating, in my opinion, so long as it stays off the actual articles. I'm pretty sure Tetsuya Nomura has said that he leaves mysteries in the series to make us use our imaginations and speculate. It's just that wikias aren't the place for it. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 02:50, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

{{NeutraVega|You're right.  There isn't any harm in doing speculation.  But there is when it comes to involving factual articles in it.}}
{{TNE|time=13:07, October 24, 2009 (UTC)|blahtext=After all, the whole purpose of the few bits of speculation is to keep the enthusiasm up. While too much of speculation's bound to damage the article, a few wouldn't hurt. If there ever should be a theory section, that's the section where our current speculation is. No more, and any further speculation should come into the talk page for filtering.}}

{{NeutraVega|Enthusiasm?  Keep it up?  Is it me, or have you forgotten Master Eraqus?  That, my dear, is the result of "trying to keep up enthusiasm."  Everyone got all excited like, and it turned into a shitstorm.  And don't you DARE say I started it all...  If anything, you all got to thinking straight afterwards.  Let's not have an encore.}}

I'd also like to bring something up; Vanitas and the other characters from Birth By Sleep are from a game that has yet to be released, meaning that a lot of these questions will be answered during the course of the game. There is no reason to speculate on the articles until the game has been released and some questions answered. Basically, a speculation section in any article about a game that has yet to be released is pointless, as the release of the game will likely render the contents of the section moot. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 03:24, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
:...NeutraVega, please don't engage in denial. We put up an article based on the best information we had, backed up by multiple sites, and you raised a shit-fulled temper tantrum. Certain editors over-reacted to your calls that we report nothing at all, but the blame for the spectacle rests squarely on your shoulders.
:Here's a hint - information translated by those of our editors who are ''fluent in Japanese'' is only ''unofficial'', not "groundless specualtion".[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 09:59, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

{{NeutraVega|Don't insult my godamn intelligence; I know full well the difference between speculation and unofficial albeit factual information.  The shit that was in there was outright crap straight from KHInsider forums.  That's not to say all of it was.  But a fair chunk?  Damn straight.  Like I said...no encore performances.  Let's stick to facts.  Intriguing trivia, sure.  Speculation?  lolno}}

We're going the best we can. And besides, half of that speculation is made by anonymous viewers or other users who are still new here. They don't know better. Just lay off.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 17:43, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
:...You complained about the name (and that only, looking at the page). Which was translated straight from the katakana, and was checked against multiple Japanese news sites.
:Besides his name, nothing on [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/index.php?title=Master_Eraqus&oldid=188689 this version of the page] was unconfirmed. And that's the version of the page that we had while you were whining. And with respect to the final confirmed name, your tantrum amounted to saying we should delete all information and pictures we had just because the name ended up having a "u" shifted over one place. Wow, what a huge difference.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:29, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

{{NeutraVega|That's right.  I complained.  And I was RIGHT.  I TOLD you to wait until an official romanization was out.  But you were dead set that you were right...  I fail to see why you would even bring that up, and use it against me considering you were wrong...}}

Small note: If you weren't so massively in denial you would notice that I was ''not'' "dead set that I was right", and even posted a possible alternate name based on what the Japanese sites were saying. I was, however, ''dead set on not deleting an entire article on a character just because his name might have a "u" shifted''.

But! Oh my goodness, you've just shown me the light. Of ''course'' we should delete an entire page worth of information because the initial translation was not as intended, even if was sensible. In fact, we should delete every single piece of information that hasn't been translated by it's original creators. Hell, how do we even know that the Final Mix games even exist? They haven't been released in English, so their existence must be ridiculous speculation.

Thank you so, so much, for making our fallacy clear. That's the wrap everyone! NeutraVega's explained why we should deny the existence of the Final Mix material![[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 07:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

:Well said ! '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 13:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

:Too much QQing going on... does it really matter if we speculate or not? --[[User:Guyviroth|<span style="color:black"><b>Black Judgment of Guyviroth</b></span>]] 13:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
::Note to self: Never make Kryten mad.... Well, there needs to be a medium with our speculation. Too much speculation is bad for the article but having some isn't terrible. - [[User:HeartOfOblivion|<span style="color:#FF0000">'''Heart''']]<span style="color:#A9A9A9">'''Of'''[[User talk:HeartOfOblivion|<span style="color:#000000">'''Oblivion''']] 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Ha, if you ask me, every released bit of information is '''bound''' to have speculation in its early stages. I know quite a bit of PR and journalism theory to actually say this. There's no stopping the people from speculation. But that doesn't mean that we have to be '''flamed''' for it. Which reminds me, there's [[User:Unbirth|another user]] who found that the speculation was wrong (his guess was right), but took it very gracefully. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


i dont think ther is. just as long as u tell that its speculation...by putting it in a speculation section *cough cough* -mr.XeroXero
:EXACTLY, but if we do put in one, we have to limit the number of speculation bits just like we did for Xion, Ven, Terra and Aqua. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 14:00, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Yes!! even if its limited i dont mind. i rly do like to read what other ppl think n stuff.

I suppose that could work so long was we regulate the speculation, but I think we should wait until ''after'' Birth By Sleep comes out. That way, more questions can be answered and the speculation section can be for the unanswered questions. It'll be more organized. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 02:17, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
:My thoughts exactly. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#FF1493">je t'♥</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF">mélancolie !</font>]]'''</sub> 02:42, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm... i agree. itd also keep the Speculation down i guess since more questions WILL be answered. that way it wont tic anyone off if they thunk thers "too much". -mr.xeroxero

== Theroy ==

Is it possible that Master Xehanorts Apprentice is Xigbar because of how he talked about seeing them before and how he saw xion as ven?

Well their bodies don't match and since a nobody is supposed to look their former selfs with only minor changes it doesn't seem likely.--[[Special:Contributions/74.210.24.180|74.210.24.180]] 22:52, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I think that the apprentice is Xehanort, as in Ansem the seeker of darkness, or Xemnas, that Xehanort. Well, my famous friend from Camp thinks that. Anyway, I agree and well remember how Xehanort had lost all his memories when Ansem found him? We think he took the name Xehanort, like when he went to the dark he called himself Ansem. Also, he's been an apprentice before, and in the Manga, Maleficent screams at Riku "YOU!" and she doesn't mean Riku. She had caused problems for Master Xehanort and his apprentice in Birth by Sleep, and she might be reconizing him. (or however you spell it...)--[[User:PrincessAndie8thprincessofheart|I&lt;3&#39;slarxel]] 13:27, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

{{Keyblader|text=Has anyone considered the possibility that Master Xehanort and his apprentice might be humanoid Unbirths? And the fact is, no one actually inside the game production has confirmed that the upper-level Unbirths, like the upper-level Nobodies, actually have to look like their original human counterparts.}}


And that Ansem the seeker of darkness somehow remained human form after becoming a Heartless. Hmm Interesting...--[[User:PrincessAndie8thprincessofheart|I&lt;3&#39;slarxel]] 14:15, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think that he is related to Spider-Man. I mean, look at his costume! And since Disney bought Marvel, it's entirely possible. [[User:JesseRoo|Jesse]][[User talk:JesseRoo|Roo]]

Please, that has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

That guy was in development LONG before Disney bought Marvel.

[http://www.sarcasmdetector.com/product.html Here's something that you might be interested in.] [[User:JesseRoo|Jesse]][[User talk:JesseRoo|Roo]]

{{Khgurl|text=I was thinking if MX's apprentice is probably a new character we haven't seen before. The possibilities are slim that the apprentice might be Xehanort. If we are right when BBS comes out, it'll kinda ruin the big surprise. There might be a large chance that it's a new character we haven't cross before. 
And to Keyblader, if the apprentice is a high-ranking Unverse, there could be a high possibility that you're right. Either way, I'm still standing on the side that the apprentice might be a new character.}}
Although the thoeries sound itneresting i suggest we remove them from the article[[User:Aqua00000|Aqua00000]] 20:45, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

== The Apprentice hath Spoken! ==
New BbS trailer at TGS09 revealed the Apprentice's voice to be masculine. Still no voice actor though. Let's get on that.
-Ktnxbai!

== A name!!!! ==

{{NitrousX|text=Finally! He has a real name! Just expressing how happy I am about that.}}
{{Maggosh|time=23:35, October 17, 2009 (UTC)|text= Great!
...
Um, where did it come from again?
EDIT: Never mind, I found it. And yayzorz!}}

{{Morghman| Vanitas, that kinda sounds girly, but I suppose it has some sort of meaning in Japanese or Latin or whatever. But come on... he's got the whole body builder suit, he's the DARK apprentice, his keyblade is off the chain, and his name... is Vanitas. Ah well, is there a picture of him without his mask?

{{NitrousX|text=Not that I've seen. But maybe someday, keep your fingers crossed.}}

==Picture==
{{Xemwath|text=Someone with photoshop skills should edit the scan where it only shows Vanitas.  Similar to what [[Master Erauqs]]'s edited scan picture looks like.}}

== Keyblade ==

{{NitrousX|text=Shouldn't he and his [[Master Xehanort|master]] have pages for their keyblades, since Terra's, Aqua's, Ven's, and Master Erauqs do?}}
{{Maggosh|time=00:23, October 19, 2009 (UTC)|text=I'll get on Vanitas'.

EDIT: Done. [[Vanitas' Keyblade]]}}

== Who said his name was Vanitas!? ==

{{User:Xiggie/TalkTemplate 
|image=DaysMarluxia.png 
|imagesize=70px |color=palevioletred 
|color2=black 
|border=gold 
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|fonttype=Trebuchet MS 
|name=Coroxn
|sig=''The Lunar Brigade''
|time="The Hearts A Battle Ground. But It Matters Not The Outcome Of The Battle, Nor How You Battle. Only That You Battled..."
|text= Tell ME! It was "Master Xehanort's Aprentice", and now suddenly it's changed to Vanitas! Did Namura say something I missed?!
}}

:His name was revealed to be Apprentice Vanitas in this month's VJump. [[User:JudgmentDay95]]
:Uh, don't spaz, thanks.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 22:04, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

== Voice Actor==

hey, judgementday, i'm not saying you're wrong, (i've definitely heard the voice before, though i'm bad at placing it...) just show us where you found out it was Miyu Irino, and it'll be settled, but unless there is a verified and checkable source, you can't leave his name on the page  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 21:06, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
{{Maggosh|text=I know I've heard his voice before, but I just can't make that connection, like you said. Didn't Nomura say that both Vanitas' and Eraqus' voice actors are 'difficult to hire'?}}

ah, the voice of riku? that i think i can hear now... still, is the VA '''officially''' Mamoru Miyano?  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 21:55, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
:It sounds like Miyano, sure, but <big><big>'''we're not putting anything up until it's announced.'''</big></big>—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 22:01, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
::and that's just fine with me  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 22:09, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

OK, I apologize. However, the reason why I kept undoing many of the changes was because when I got on, I noticed that someone had listed Miyu Irino as the VA. I assumed that was official, and so I decided to make sure that this page kept it that way.

Well, I guess this is what I get for assuming. Again, I'm sorry. [[User:JudgmentDay95]]
:It's nothing personally against you, I was just pretty annoyed that by the time I had gotten to the page like four people had already posted Irino/Miyano.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 23:51, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

{{NeutraVega|@Urutapu: Yeah.  Okiayu and Toyoguchi haven't exactly been announced either...yet, here we are!  But that said...I ''know'' I've heard his voice several times before myself...  But there's NO WAY in hell it's Mamoru Miyano or Miyu Irino...}}

== 70 ==

Seventy edits in one day. Absolutely ridiculous. --[[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:navy ;">'''Door'''</span>]][[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:dimgray ;">'''To'''</span>]][[User talk:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:darkslategray ;">'''Nothing'''</span>]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/DoorToNothing|<font face=Trebuchet MS color=red>'''''Kupo!'''''</font>]]</sup> 04:49, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

{{NeutraVega|You should've seen Master Eraqus's page.  That was a whole new kind of retardation.}}
{{TNE|time=02:19, October 27, 2009 (UTC)|blahtext=''Excuse-moi ?''}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Hmph! I'm getting really sick of you, NeutraVega. You got '''WAY''' too much attitude for a kid!}}
{{NitrousX|text=Sorry to intrude, but "retardation"? Seriously? For one thing, you have no business saying that and for another, '''who''' says "retardation" anymore?}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Kids who are immature. Just look at my classmates in school.}}
{{TNE|time=02:34, October 27, 2009 (UTC)|text=Well, guess I'm not gonna break the toy...}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Really? Half the time, I '''WANT''' to break the toy. Don't be fool by well behave personailty. I'm quite...Vicious if I want to be. Maybe even a little like Larxene.}}
{{TNE|time=02:47, October 27, 2009 (UTC)|happytext=Hehehehe, we're just waiting. ^_^ <small>Now if only I could extract Larxene emotions from Chain of Memories.</small>}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=My dear senpai TNE, I feel the exact same way. However, I could never allow myself to do the things Larxene does, unless someone makes me mad. It's a little thing I like to call acting.}}
{{TNE|time=03:38, October 27, 2009 (UTC)|text=Niiiiiiice. <small>You see, there're a lot more decent people like [[User:Unbirth|Unbirth]] - he knows he's right, but he doesn't go around making a show out of it.</small>}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Thanks. And I totally agreed with you about Unbirth.}}
{{Maggosh|text=Well that leads me to believe that he's getting people like you to do the dirty work. :P}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Dirty work? Care to explain by what you mean?}}
{{TNE|time=23:27, October 27, 2009 (UTC)|blahtext=Ha ! If he's counting on us to do the dirty work, he can bloody well do it himself !}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=As if! He'll just make a scene again.}}
{{TNE|time=00:17, October 28, 2009 (UTC)|text=Even ''le cynique'' Kryten can't stand his guts. I guess we'll just leave him there and then let the higher staff do as they see fit. I won't handle him.}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Me either. He's such a brat. He got a lot of attitude for a kid.}}
{{TNE|time=00:27, October 28, 2009 (UTC)|happytext=Just leave him. We ''demoiselles'' know how to go through such situations, don't we ?}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Of course, we do. Guys always takes girls for granted. We're a lot tougher than they think we are!}}
{{Maggosh|text=...what have I started? :(}}
{{TNE|time=01:04, October 28, 2009 (UTC)|happytext=Never mind about what you started, '''I FEEL ALIVE AGAIN !!! :DDDDD'''}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=You didn't start anything. This have been going on for quite some time. And don't mind Madame TNE, she's a little crazy. Hehehe...}}
{{NeutraVega|Holy crap, look at all this.  I had no idea people paid so much attention to my opinions.  Perhaps I ought fire up my very own fanclub...}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Don't flatter yourself, you jerk.}}
{{NitrousX|text=Seriously, Vega, your ego is bigger than the World of Chaos.}}
{{Firaga44|text=Yep and the world that never was to.}}

==Removed from page==
"Secret video" synopses are ''not'' canon, and should be restricted to a mention in trivia or lead that "so and so appeared in this secret video". Right now, a few minutes of video barely featuring Vanitas takes up 80% of this article, which is weak.

This info should be integrated with the main BBS video page.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:48, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
:It should also be written ''competently'' before being reinserted into article space.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:49, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
Why don't you just add/delete the video article? You don't need to remove the whole thing. Cococrash11
::Because it's not canon, and we have no idea where it fits into the character's history. It shouldn't be on this page at all.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 10:05, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
{{Maggosh|text=Then by all means, remove articles with the ASAS and Deep Dive summary too, since they contain material not represented in the games either.}}

What the heck are you talking about? Vanitas's orgin and first apearnce is Birth By Sleep video just like Master Xehanort. WHy don't you include video in the article? Master Xehnort, Terra,Ventus, and Aqua had one to. Cococrash11
::The Story section is supposed to be a chronological summary of that character's plot. Consider - including the video synopsis 1) claims that it is canon, which it is not, and 2) claims that they did the video before they did their actual story. For example, the way Deep Dive was placed for Riku, it claimed he fought Roxas before going to Castle Oblivion, which is wrong.

At most, there should be a mention that "X appeared in secret video Y" in the lead or something. However, those videos ARE NOT CANON, and should only be summarized on their own article.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 23:54, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Wait a second you're saying the the video isn't canon but you don't want to include in it? What the heck look at Terra,Ventus,Aqua, Master Xehanort, and Mickey Mouse they both had the Birth By Sleep video and The Gathering video and they didn't erase it like in Vanitas. In this page why can't Vanitas had both? Vanitas isn't included The Gathering is one thing and he dosen't appear in it I understand but his fisrt appearance is in the Birth By Sleep video. So why isn't Birth By Sleep video article mention in Vanitas? If the video article for Vanitas is too big just make it small enough to not watse space, or just include everything in BBS video about Vanitas in the Vanitas page. I thought you guys want to improve articles in this wikia not erase the truth? Beside you're saying that the Riku in Deep Dive is before he went to Catsle Oblivion who told you that? This happen after KHCOM and 358/2 Days not between KHI and KHCOM. cococrash11 
::Please don't be an idiot.
#The placement of the Deep Dive video in Riku's article would be between KH and KHCom, which is incorrect.
#It's specifically not truth, it's un-fucking-canon.

If you're unwilling to listen at all to what the other person is saying, then just shut up, please.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 13:23, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Shut up! What you did dosne't make any sense. Beside the secret video deep dive is after KH1 FInal Mix and not the story line but the game producction history you idiot. Cococrash11

I will say it again.

''THE STORY SECTIONS ARE NOT JUST DESCRIPTIONS OF WHAT THE CHARACTER HAS APPEARED IN.'' They are descriptions, in the style of timelines, of ''what happens to the character during the storyline of the series''.

'''As placed, the secret video synopses claim that the characters did those things immediately after KH1 and KH2'''. That is nonsense. Riku did not defeat Roxas immediately after KH1 - he waited two games to do it.

This is pretty much exactly what I said two comments ago, and the fact that you're rambling on about production history (when I've been emphasizing the '''CANON STATUS''' as the important point) only shows that you're spending your time complaining instead of actually listening. I know damn well when the videos were produced; however, they are NOT CANON, and DO NOT FIT INTO THE CHARACTER'S PLOT SYNOPSIS, any more than the trading card game does. That is why I suggested that the information pertaining to the secret videos be covered ''specifically'' on that video's page, and to only have a link to it here.
:In the future, instead of complaining in what is barely English, please reread the first person's comment so they don't have to repeat it multiple times.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 20:11, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
:::As for your complaining on my talk page - if you can prove that those are the plots for those games, and not just people assuming things from the small snippets we do know, feel free to add them back in. As that is currently impossible, since the game isn't finished, I kind of doubt you'll be able to. As those pages were, they were making false claims, which is unacceptable.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 20:20, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

{{GS|time=20:37, October 31, 2009 (UTC)|text=Okay, the concept videos are confirmed to be nothing more than concepts.  That means they're non-cannon.  It's beyond me why people on this wiki love to continue pointless debates about keeping unnecessary information on pages.  All concept video information will be kept on those articles only.  End of story.}}

== What should we add ==

Should we add that Vanitas and Ven are going to fight each other? I mean in the new trailer they first start talking in [[The Gathering]] and then they both whip out their keyblades and get in their battle stances.--[[User:Xsonicdragon|Xsonicdragon]] 01:39, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

== Xehanort ==

{{TFO|time=20:46, September 13, 2009 (UTC)|Aerith= It has been my personal opinion that Vanitas is the Xehanort we know for a while. I have had this theory for sometime, before I even joined the wiki. I was pleased to read some other people had the same idea. When I first started reading up on the game I was suprised how little information was released about the apprentice, I almost thought it was suspicious. Any way here is where I posted my theory if any one is interested: http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/User:Terra_Fae_Odosson#The_Ansem_Theory
Of course I wrote this before I heard the Terra theory. Most the information I gathered would support that idea too. sigh. I know some people were annoyed with all the speculation listed. Nomura did state that he left areas open for fans to use their imagination and also so they wouldn't get bored with the series. I think he would enjoy the fact fans speculate and get this excited. I know I loved dreaming there was a great connection between Reno and Axel but now we know who Axel's original self was. Vantis could also be an unversed. I just don't know enough about them really to make a good prediction involving them. I had better ideas when we all thought it was unbirths. I had fun playing around with that.}}
{{TNE|time=05:16, October 30, 2009 (UTC)|shocktext=I wonder what "friendship" ties he had with Aqua and Ven though, if it's really Vanitas...}}