| Latest revision |
Your text |
| Line 1: |
Line 1: |
| {{archive box|
| | ==He is the Xheanort we know== |
| * [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 1|Archive 1]] - November 05, 2009
| | Look at it this way, "Xheanort" has a habit of stealing his master's names, his "Heartless" armor is also passed down from Xheanort's heartless to Riku, his new apprentice, he even took his master's clothes when he turned into a heartless, also, it is never stated that his name is "Xheanort" It's just the only name he remembers, this makes sense to me, seeing as how Master Xheanort would have been a very powerful figure in his memory. |
| * [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 2|Archive 2]] - January 20, 2010
| |
| * [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 3|Archive 3]] - February 11, 2018
| |
| }}
| |
|
| |
|
| ==Nomura Interview== | | {{Xiggie|text=Well, it could be him, '''OR''' Terra (See my [http://khxiggie.blogcentral.is/blog/2009/2/1/who-is-xehanort/ blog] about this, and please comment)}} |
| I finished adding proper citations to Vanitas's page, but I'm having trouble tracking one of the interviews down. In Vanitas's Trivia section, there is a line that states: "Nomura also stated in another interview that Vanitas's identity was familiar and perhaps also shocking."
| |
|
| |
|
| However, I spent days combing through the KHInsider's archives for the interviews and I've tried Google-ing, but I can't seen to find the interview where Nomura-sensei said that Vanita's face is supposed to "shock" fans, which is stated as part of the interview. [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Vanitas?diff=248958&oldid=248857 I tried going back to the Keyhole where that trivia was first inserted into the page, but I got nothing]. When I tried typing keywords in the search engine, I couldn't find anything. Does anyone remember which interview Nomura-sensei said that? Was it in a video interview or at a con where one of the trailers were shown? I took the sentence out of the trivia section, because unless it's sourced, it doesn't really belong there. Besides, I don't think it fitted well since it had more to do Vanitas's voice.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 23:10, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
| | I was the one who made that theory NO JOKE visit my [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/User:Kingdomheartsfreek#Kingdom_Hearts_BBS| home page] all that u need to know about that theory is there |
|
| |
|
| == Monstropolis pre-3D == | | == Trailer Info == |
|
| |
|
| "he says his heart needed to be reconstructed using negative emotions, meaning he was collected at some point after his battle with Ventus (as that was when his heart was shattered). His journal entry also refers to him as being from after BBS" | | Some of the Birth by Sleep Trailers Have been leaked. in one Master Xehanort Says "Those who Submit to darkness are not qualified to Wield the keyblade. already that man" Cuts to apprentice as he says this "has become a monster consumed by Darkness. use your power to defeat the darkness and correct my mistake." these trailers are on youtube. you might have to dig around a bit but it's there. should be mentioned in a article edit for link: |
| | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuoA5DL_oM0&feature=related |
|
| |
|
| *No, it doesn't. It means that he, currently, is after KHBBS. Nothing more.
| | i wonder why xehanort actually says that when in the final mix secret ending he seems to be fighting together with his apprentice and not against him --[[User:Darksoldier|Darksoldier]] 12:47, 21 March 2009 (UTC) |
| *His journal entry absolutely does not say that. It says:
| |
|
| |
|
| :A member of the real Organization XIII.
| | maybe he changed his mind or that scene happens before this one |
| :This is the pure darkness that Master Xehanort extracted from Ventus's heart. He was pitted against Ventus in order to forge the X-blade, but Ventus prevailed and Vanitas ceased to exist.
| |
| :Now that he is back, he continues to seek his "brother," Ventus.
| |
|
| |
|
| This is exactly parallel to all of the other Org profiles talking about how Sora or Riku killed them. Xemnas's profile talks about they "put an end to his plans and Xemnas himself." Ansem's talks about him being destroyed. They both also say how, despite their destruction, they've returned.
| | == Heartless Possibility == |
|
| |
|
| There is nothing in the journal that indicates that Vanitas came back into existence on his own, instead of being snatched before his death in BBS, just like the other org members were.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
| | Has anyone considered the possibilty that the aprentice isn't an aprentice at all, but is |
| | in fact Master Xhanort's heartless? After all, in the birth by sleep video they seemed to spit from one being, with one (Master Xehanort) keeping the phisical shape of the original the way that a powerful Nobody does, and the other (the apprentice) becoming more heartless like. Another thing is that the "Apprentice" finished Master Xeanort's sentence in one of the trailers. This did not seem to suprise Master Xehanort or Ven, as if the apprentice ''should'' know what his master is about to say. |
| | --[[User:Hulon2|Hulon2]] 14:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC) |
|
| |
|
| His heart was shattered at the end of BBS, why would it need to be reconstructed in Monstropolis if he was snatched from before it being shattered? The journal saying "now that he is '''back''', he '''continues''' to seek his "brother," Ventus" is different from the others ("despite this Ansem/Xemnas has returned") as his refers to him as being back from his defeat and continuing with his prior task. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 21:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
| | {{TNE|text=If that is so, then MX is a Nobody... which seems rather impossible as he is able to wield the Keyblade. Right ? MX looks like anyone who would have a heart, through and through, even if he's the antagonist in the game, and even if he wants to acquire Kingdom Hearts.}} |
| :Because it was already damaged by the climax of KHBBS. In addition, with the events following. Vanitas was originally unstable until Sora's heart connected with Ventus's -- if that link has been tampered with (CoM, etc.), even if the heart is taken to the future, you'd expect there to be instability again.
| |
| :referring to him being back from his defeat is the same language used for Ansem and Xemnas.
| |
| :It refers to him continuing his task, because its his own task apart from the organization's plans. He's one of the few Organization members doing his own thing.
| |
| :The Ultimania specifically says this is Vanitas "from the past", and the events with Randall are implied to have ''just happened'', based on the fact that Sully, who works at Monsters Inc. ''every day'', was not aware anything was amiss at first.
| |
| :There is no mechanism provided anywhere in the series for him to have just "come back", and if he had, what would be the point of snatching him from the past? He'd already be there. Snatching from the past was ''only'' supposed to be a mechanism for retrieving those who were irretrievably destroyed.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 22:11, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
| |
| ::Also, I have no idea where all this is from:
| |
| :::"Vanitas's fractured heart met the monster Randall, who told him about Monstropolis and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy. Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter, Vanitas manipulates Randall using his desire for revenge"
| |
| ::If it was explicitly mentioned in the scenes, fine, but I don't recall anything indicating that Vanitas found Randall in Louisiana and had this conversation with him.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 22:16, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
| |
| Wasn't his heart only fragmented after his final fight with Ventus in BBS? It wouldn't need to be reconstructed otherwise. Vanitas implies to Mike that the Unversed and Randall have been working behind the scenes, making canisters of scream energy under their noses. He also did say that he found Randall. He could have been picked up from the past because they could not obtain him in the present, like Xion. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 22:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
| |
| :::Xion was taken from the past so that they'd have an obedient version -- and even with being taken from her puppet days, she still had links of friendship to Sora and Lea.
| |
| :::His heart was damaged from the very moment of his creation. That's why the Unversed existed to begin with.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:04, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
| |
| They also collected every member of the org via time travel in DDD even though most existed in the present. Anyhow, maybe it would be best to just put the info back in the KHIII section and not mention what point in the past he was collected from. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 23:09, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
| |
| :No, they didn't. The KH3D and KH3 Ultimania explicitly say they didn't. The ones that existed in the present just showed up on their own.
| |
| :The KH3 Ultimania explicitly says that the replica contains the heart of "Vanitas from the past". That only makes sense as being a reference to BBS.
| |
| :Also, I need to rephrase what I said about Xion -- they picked a certain point in time to pluck her from because that was when she was most pliant, but the reason they needed to use time travel in the first place is that she had already reunited with Sora.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:18, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
| |
| Well it does not say exactly where in the past he comes from, so we don't need to explicitly say (like how we're not mentioning it with Repliku). Even going by him not existing post-BBS, he could be from pre-BBS. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 23:23, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
| |
| :We know when Repliku is taken from. It's from before Namine undid the brainwashing on him. If it's not in the article, it should be.::{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:12, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
| |
| ::Is it not that Dark Riku is from the time when Ansem possessed Riku, rather than being Riku Replica's Heart? From what I understood that was how it worked and the Replica comment was just concerning the vessel within which Dark Riku's Hearts was within. I also agree with what has been said regarding Vanitas' own Heart. Ultimania states that he's from the past, and i think that the work the Unversed did to collect negative emotions was just to fill out Vanitas' Heart and allow him to be a complete being on his own - since he'd still otherwise lack half a Heart, just like Ventus. But at the same time - he still sought to join his Heart with Ventus's, which would suggest that he is simply restored from post KHBBS. I think it's more of a slip up somewhere on Nomura's part to be honest ([[User:Levi657|Levi657]] ([[User talk:Levi657|talk]]) 18:28, 5 March 2019 (UTC))
| |
| :::No. Both the final death of Dark Riku, and the Ultimania, state that Dark Riku is the Riku Replica from the period of time in which it ''thought'' it was Ansem-possessed Riku.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:01, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
| |
| ::::[https://forums.khinsider.com/spoilers/218575-kingdom-hearts-3-story-discussion-48.html Good explanation of scene].{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:01, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
| |
| So his fractured heart was picked up after his final battle with Ven by Youngnort, but his fixing of his heart happened after he got a replica body rather than in-between games. That works too. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 18:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
| |
|
| |
|
| | He ''would'' be able to use a Keyblade because, as it says in the article on Keyblades, they are connected to your soul, not your heart. So a Nobody can use a Keyblade because they still have souls. For example, both Roxas and Xion use Keyblades, even though they are Nobodies. As for looking as if he has a heart, who can tell. Axel seemed very heartful to me, but he's a Nobody.--[[User:Hulon2|Hulon2]] 13:34, 4 May 2009 (UTC) |
|
| |
|
| Okay, so KH3D might actually inform some of this:
| | {{TNE|text=It's connected to the soul of the '''wielder''', who himself has to have a strong heart.}} |
|
| |
|
| *https://www.khinsider.com/news/KH3D-Ultimania-Interviews-Translated-2602
| | Well, Roxas was able to weild a Keyblade, two in fact, and he didn't have a heart, so maybe it's the same case with this guy. [[User:Keyblader|Keyblader]] 22:48, 30 April 2009 (UTC) |
| *https://www.khinsider.com/news/KH3D-Famitsu-Weekly-Interview-Translated-2603
| |
|
| |
|
| :— Why did Xehanort and co. word things as if to try and wake Ventus who is inside Sora?
| | {{TNE|blahtext=The only reason why Roxas was able was because of Sora. |
| ::Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. ''When you see Vanitas (the dark half of Ventus who appeared in KHBBS) overlay Young Xehanort for a moment, that represents Ventus’ heart reacting inside Sora.''
| |
| :— What about Vanitas?
| |
| ::Nomura: ''Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form.'' He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.
| |
|
| |
|
| So, especially with the clarification from the Ultimania that Demyx and Vexen were benched ''during'' KH3D, I think we can clarify a bit here. Vanitas talks about how his heart is just made of negativity, that the screams and sadness were enough to reconstruct it, that it is still incomplete, and he emphasizes that he's never met Sora ''in the flesh''. So, his weakened heart was brought back from the past, and maybe wasn't strong enough to attach to a replica yet (this is why Vanitas doesn't have a physical form in KH3D). Mike and Sulley are just finishing their playdate with Boo when the Unversed are found, indicating they've just been there for a day (at least, in terms of Monstropolis). So, the implication seems to be (and I don't think is is quite explicit enough to put on the wiki itself, yet), that Vanitas's weak heart was dropped off at Monstropolis, used the Unversed to soak up the remaining surplus of scream energy as well as acquire new screams, and then was strong enough for a Replica. As far as I can tell, we don't even see him physically interacting with anything at Monstropolis until ''after'' the Lump of Horror is defeated.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:28, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
| | And then, if you think about it, those two didn't act '''instinctively''', did they ? They seemed to have planned every single attack of theirs. Heartless act by instinct alone.}} |
|
| |
|
| :To back this up, Vexen says at The Caribbean that not even his finest replica could continue existing without a heart.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:59, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
| | Yes, MX fought like he had a plan, ''but'' the "Apprentice" just leapt out and started bashing away. |
| == Randall ==
| | Later, he noticed the tornado of blades and leapt on to it without stopping at all to think.--[[User:Hulon2|Hulon2]] 13:34, 4 May 2009 (UTC) |
|
| |
|
| *Vanitas encountered the monster [[Randall]], who told him about [[Monstropolis]] and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy.
| | {{TNE|text=And he did it well, didn't he ? Tacticians don't always hesitate during battle. Think Sephiroth.}} |
| **What is the source that Randall specifically informed Vanitas of how screams were used for energy, instead of just negativity being harvested?
| |
| *Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter,
| |
| **That's not why Randall was banished in the movie. What is the source for this being the cause in the game?
| |
| *Vanitas encourages Randall's belief that scream power was more reliable,
| |
| **Source? Randall's driving force in the movies was just that scream power made ''him'' more important, since it was what he was best at. Randall wants to be the star.
| |
| *stating that if a child's heart was broken over something truly precious to to them, they would be a limitless source of negative emotions.
| |
| **this sounds like script regurgitation.
| |
| *Vanitas repairs the doorway Randall had been banished through using a dark corridor.
| |
| **source?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:30, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
| |
| Should probably be rewritten (I just put back what was there before). The only part I think is accurate is that Vanitas finds Randall and helps him get back by fixing the door. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 17:38, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
| |
|
| |
|
| I rewatched the scenes, and I think this is a good summary (needs to be rewritten for Vanitas PoV): | | I guess we'll know when the game comes out. After all it could be something that none of us have even thought of. After all, if people could figure out they big secret from just watching the trailers, the game wouldn't sell well. They want people to wonder so they make the trailers purposefully vague. Seriously, who could guess that Roxas was Sora's Nobody using only the ''Another Side Another Story'' video?--[[User:Hulon2|Hulon2]] 14:31, 4 May 2009 (UTC) |
|
| |
|
| Fortunately for him, Vanitas found him and decided to exploit his ambition and desire for revenge. Vanitas fixed Randall's door, allowing him to return to Monsters, Inc. and attempt to reclaim his prior prestige. However, believing that laugh power is unsustainable, he still insisted on exploiting negative emotional energy, and allied with Vanitas's Unversed to acquire it. With their help, he infiltrated the factory and weaponized its machinery.
| | {{TNE|text=True. Let's wait and see...}} |
|
| |
|
| {{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:35, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
| | I think MX apprentice is really the xehanort that we know --KHF 19:53, 10 June 2009 (UTC) |
|
| |
|
| ==Update "Design" image==
| | Eh, it really could go either way, couldn't it? I personally doubt that the Apprentice is a Heartless, but you never do know. After all, he uses a keyblade - wethether the blade's attatched to the soul or the heart, it doesn't matter, because then they couldn't both use a keyblade. Then agian, it might have something to do with those chains...or rather, lack therof. No, wait, The Apprentice and MX both have chains. Okay, I'm lost. But, since Roxas did use a keyblade, despite being a Nobody, I don't think it's fair to just shoot down his theroy. The only problem is whether or not a heartless can use a keyblade, which is, obviously, unlikey. But then agian... Yeah, I don't know. [[User:Keyblade Mage|Keyblade Mage]] 13:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC)Keyblade Mage |
| I was wondering whether we should keep the current picture or replace it with one from KH3, when Ven sees Sora for the first time and imagines Vanitas's unmasked face, as seen at the very start of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syQmSebusKs this video] (it's pretty LQ, but convenient). [[User:Immblueversion|Immblueversion]] ([[User talk:Immblueversion|talk]]) 16:46, 16 March 2019 (UTC) | |
|
| |
|
| == KH3 novel == | | == Speculation == |
| | {{yer mom|text=There is a lot of speculation in the Trivia, should we add a special part for theories or leave it where it is? (Some of those theories sound like nonsense tho...}} |
|
| |
|
| New info from the KH3 novel (https://blowingoffsteam2.tumblr.com/post/186619968004). --[[Special:Contributions/84.203.5.141|84.203.5.141]] 21:35, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
| | like what?--KHF 19:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC) |
|
| |
|
| :I just read the post, was that really from the legit novel, because of so then we REALLY REALLY know stuffs gonna go down in the next one. [[User:ZBroadcast|ZBroadcast]] ([[User talk:ZBroadcast|talk]]) 10:37 8 December, 2019 (UTC)
| | == Theroy == |
|
| |
|
| == Graveyard Keyblades ==
| | Is it possible that Master Xehanorts Apprentice is Xigbar because of how he talked about seeing them before and how he saw xion as ven? |
|
| |
|
| The ''KHIII ReMind'' fight with Vanitas gives the name for the Keyblade Graveyard Keyblades as '''Vanitas' Keyblades''', should they get a page or at least be mentioned in his Weapon section? --[[Special:Contributions/84.203.0.65|84.203.0.65]] 15:34, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
| | Well their bodies don't match and since a nobody is supposed to look their former selfs with only minor changes it doesn't seem likely.--[[Special:Contributions/74.210.24.180|74.210.24.180]] 22:52, 10 July 2009 (UTC) |
| | |
| == Brothers ==
| |
| | |
| So Vanitas at different points in KH3 calls Sora and Ven his brothers. What are your guys take on it. Should we consider Sora, Ven, and Vanitas as 3 brothers? I know they aren't brothers in the conventional sense, but in this wiki should we refer to them more as "brothers"? Vanitas conveyed decent logic towards the 3 of them being brothers. {{unsigned|Keybladefan0204}}
| |
| :They're not brothers, so no. We can mention that Vanitas calls them his brothers, but that's about it. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC) | |
| | |
| == New info about Vanitas from the Official Character Book==
| |
| So I found this new detail, turns out Vanitas' Keyblade doesn't have an actual official name (Despite the Vanitas Remnant giving the Void Gear Keyblade upon defeat), but it does note on the gear motif and blue eye of the design. Should we update any info on Vanitas then?
| |
| Link is right here: https://twitter.com/petalscythe/status/1233097044224610315
| |
| | |
| [[User:YeetusVanitas2010|YeetusVanitas2010]] ([[User talk:YeetusVanitas2010|talk]]) 17:47, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
| |
| :These stories are third-tier canon. Not to mention, Void Gear was confirmed to be its name in one of the Ultimanias. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 03:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
| |
| We have this discussion on and off since 2010. In an interview for BBS Nomura confirmed, that you get Vanitas's Keyblade from Vanitas Remnant, which makes it synonymous with the Void Gear. Still the [https://i.imgur.com/aLL1Etgg.jpg Memorial Ultimania] and now the Character Book only name it "Vanitas's Keyblade", which is why this name appears also on the Void Gear page since we don't have a separate article for the colored variant. It's more a formality I think, they simply make a distinction between a Keychain's name and the Keyblade's actual name like with [http://images.khinsider.com/2014%20Uploads/10/Memorial%20Ultimania/bbs_03.png "Master Eraqus' Keyblade (Master Keeper)"] and [http://images.khinsider.com/2014%20Uploads/10/Memorial%20Ultimania/kh2_05.png "Kairi's Keyblade (Destiny Place)"] --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 09:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
| |
