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| | ==Opinion?== |
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| * [[Talk:Unversed/Archive 1|Archive 1]] - December 30, 2009
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| ==Guys, let's put the pieces together==
| | Does anyone else think they should have just stuck with Heartless and Nobodies? I just feel like adding an enemy that precedes the Heartless (originally, the REAL threat) seems kind of silly. It would have been better in continuity of they just stuck with the original enemies instead of trying to give us another "original enemy". [[Special:Contributions/75.42.222.81|75.42.222.81]] 18:21, 12 September 2008 (UTC) |
| {{TNE|text=Okay. Let's seam everything together and see what we get:
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| *We know that Birth By Sleep takes place at least ten years before KHI.
| | Heartless started within the timeline of Kingdom hearts 1. so they had to have something else. [[User:Zack fair 007|Zack fair 007]] 23:15, 12 September 2008 (UTC) |
| *We know that Terra, Ven and Aqua are Keyblade wielders, and followers of Master Xehanort, who is a Keyblade wielder himself.
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| *Terra, Ven and Aqua have been looking for Master Xehanort, only to confront him in that rocky place (which most people call Sunset Horizons).
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| *Ven is petrified while MX lets this blue light into the sky, creating something which looks like Kingdom Hearts, albeit blue in colour.
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| *We know that the first enemies were the Unbirths.
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| *We know that MX confronted Ven and, with a ball of darkness, asks Ven to liberate his true self (perhaps planning to erase him). Mickey Mouse confronts MX and protects Ven.
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| *Terra and Ven were seen together on the Main Island of Destiny Islands, and Ven tells Terra to erase him.
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| *Some time later, Terra sees four-year-old Sora and five-year-old Riku sword-fighting on the Small Island.
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| *We also know that Terra's eyes turn amber while his hair turns white at the end of Birth By Sleep.
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| *We know that a guy named Xehanort survived the Keyblade War with no memory of his past, and was taken by Ansem the Wise as an apprentice along with Braig, Dilan, Even, Aeleus and Ienzo.
| | {{troisnyxetienne|text=But here's a thought, guys : in the Another Side Another Story trailer, they explicitly mentioned "The Third Enemy - Nobody" meaning to say that the Heartless were already intended to be the second. The first would be the Unbirths, I guess.}} |
| *We know that Braig (or perhaps his Nobody, Xigbar) had an encounter with Terra, Ven and Aqua for him to tell Sora, "You're not half the hero the others were."
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| *Xehanort, Braig, Dilan, Even, Aeleus and Ienzo all turned into Heartless and left Nobodies behind. Coincidentally, Terra, Xehanort and his Nobody Xemnas all have the same centre-parted hair. Xehanort assumed the name of his master, Ansem and sent Kairi to Destiny Islands to tap the power of the Keyblade Master, whom he felt was in Destiny Islands. He also banished Ansem the Wise from Radiant Garden.
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| *Ansem the Wise decided to befriend Darkness and travel in the realm of Nothingness, calling himself DiZ (Darkness in Zero).
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| *We know that Xehanort and company continued Ansem's research on darkness and created Heartless.
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| *Xehanort created many Heartless artificially and placed his emblem on them. Coincidentally, the Heartless emblem and the emblem worn by Terra, Ven and Aqua bear the same shape.
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| *We know that based on Ansem's Secret Reports, the mayhem of the Heartless have lasted some eleven years.
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| *A meteor shower took place in Destiny Islands, suggesting that the barrier of the world has crumbled. Kairi is the "new girl" in the mayor's house and Riku and Sora, who hear of her coming, talk about it in the Secret Place and decide to go and see her.
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| *Sora, Riku and Kairi grow up together.
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| *Riku, then 15, opened the Keyhole of Destiny Islands because he wanted to escape that island, and he rendered himself to darkness. Sora became the wielder of the Keyblade and went in search of his friends Riku and Kairi. Then we have the whole KHI, Chain of Memories and KHII story.
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| *We also know that Sora sacrificed his heart to save Kairi, creating his Nobody, Roxas - and when Sora was brought back to life, Roxas endured. Coincidentally, Roxas bears an uncanny resemblance to Ven.
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| *From the events in Final Mix+ we see that Xemnas sees Aqua's armour and Keyblade in the Room of Sleep and talks to it, and calls it Friend, and the armour seems to respond to him.
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| *Mickey Mouse refers to Xehanort/Xemnas/Xehanort's Heartless as '''Xehanort''' and not '''Terra'''. (IMHO, if Xehanort were really Terra, and he had lost his memory, the first name he could think of was the name of his master.)
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| *We know that someone who has forgotten how to wield the Keyblade cannot do it anymore. Terra was a Keyblade wielder. Xehanort wasn't. But Xehanort, in writing Ansem Reports, wanted to tap the power of the Keyblade master, and did not understand the power of the Keyblade, which is not likely for someone who has forgotten how to wield the Keyblade.
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| *Also, from the events of Final Mix+, someone called the Lingering Sentiment, with Terra's armour and Keyblade, attacked Sora and company, thinking Sora was Master Xehanort's ally.
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| From this course of events, what can we say ?}}
| | You think that the mad hatter's song " A Very Merry '''Unbirthday'''" has anything to do with |
| | them? [[User:Roxas-rules|Roxas-rules]] 19:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC) |
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| We can say that Terra's a jackass just like Xehanort, but seriously, We can put together that Terra is the only one able to be Xehanort, Ven is Sora's Unbirth, we have no clue who is Aqua, the apprentice looks like Dark form Riku, and that apperintly we are very good at puttin stuff together-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | | ::WHY do people keep claiming that [[Xion]] is an unbirth??? We dont even know for certain what unbirths are!! |
| | ::Ahem, anyway, I hope they tie them to the sleeping part of this game. And then there could be stuff from Sleeping Beauty (which could already be the wheel master). |
| | [[User:Summon:WALL•E|Summon:WALL•E]] 08:24, 30 November 2008 (UTC) |
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| {{TNE|text=LOL you got me on that one. :D Who '''IS''' Aqua anyway ? I guess Nomura must've done a good job doing her up because not a single soul can speculate who she is.}}
| | ==Theory== |
| | Instead of being negative souls, they are negative LIFE. |
| | See this: |
| | Heartless: Corrupted Hearts |
| | Nobody: Corrupted Bodies |
| | Unbirths: (Presumingly) Corrupted "Lifeforce". |
| | See the contradictions in names? |
| | They are the "opposite of human life", being life without reason, without a body to sustain, no heart to guide it. |
| | "Birth By Sleep"-Born In Sleep. If sleep can be called the process of the division into heartless, nobody and unbirth, you got an origin right in the title. |
| | -Good Night Everybody! [[User:Mexoran|MEXORAN]] |
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| Well as far as we know, she died, or turned into heartless/nobody/unbirth because of her armor in Xemnas room, I've also seen that Xemnas in armor form vagly resembles Terra in his armor-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]]
| | I must say I have to agree with this theory whole heartedly (pun intended). Like you said Heartless are a heart in a body of darkness, nobodies are the body and soul leftover when the darkness invades, so maybe unbirths are just a body and a heart? |
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| {{TNE|text=What puzzles me the most is that Aqua's armour actually '''responded''' to Xemnas.}}
| | == unbirth = soul == |
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| Well, there's two ways this could happen, one: her soul is possesing the armor, two: Xemnas is crazy-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]]
| | An unbirth is the soul just like the nobody and the heartless are the body and the heart. |
| | In the ansem report 7 it says wen ar heartless is created the body and soul are reborn into another world. |
| | A good example is Sora his heartless a shadow was born in Hallow Bastion but his nobody Roxas was born in Twilight Town. |
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| {{TNE|happytext=ROTFLMAO. :D Sounds plausible.}}
| | And there is good proof that Xeanorts unbirth is leading the unbirths because his heartless and nobody leaded the nobodys (Xemnas) and the heartless (Ansem) |
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| I vote on him being crazy, but what I just thought the two heartless optional bosses, phantom and kurt ziza, they could be the apprintece-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]]
| | one last thing Xion is '''not''' an unbrirt she is a '''!nobody!''' |
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| When Xigbar is talking to Zexion about the room of sleep (Where Aqua's armor is), he is ends by saying that: Maybe, in Calstle Oblivion, that's where the "other" room is. (Or something like that) What could be in the Other room? [[User:Shg.siggi|Xiggie]]
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| {{TNE|text=What I know about the other room is that it's called the '''Room of Awakening''', and it is definitely in Castle Oblivion. Not sure what's in there, but that could've been the reason why Xemnas chose Castle Oblivion as an operating base in the first place.}}
| | except Nobodies are the body '''AND''' soul.ass |
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| Well the '''awakening''' could be what sora and roxas had to go through, exactly why I dont remember, but it could be the awakening of the only one that's missing, Ven, so that could further help explain Ven choosing '''Way to Dawn''' as the castle was in the '''nobody''' castle, a castle of twilight- [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]]
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| {{TNE|text=Maybe so. But the castle wasn't originally theirs, I'd say. No doubt, Castle Oblivion is situated in the Realm of In Between. They just came upon it, and seeing that no one actually had possession of the castle, they used it for themselves.}}
| | But we don't even know MX is Xehanorts unbirth, and a lot of people think Terra is Xehanorts unbirth. |
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| Ok, but technacly they are nobodies so '''no one''' is actually '''living''' there, but I get what your saying, so what are the unbirth atributes? Heartless=Darkness. Nobodies=Nothingness/Twilight. Sora and friends=Light.-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]]
| | {{troisnyxetienne|text=Master Xehanort and Xehanort may be connected to each other but MX is ''definitely not''' Xehanort's unbirth. I mean, look at their age !}} |
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| {{TNE|text=I suppose that, only Nomura knows. But what's the opposite of human life ? We can choose whichever power we want for ourselves, so to speak. If the Nobodies were a menace to beings of '''both''' Light and Darkness, then the Unbirths might've been a menace to them all - and them all here means all realms !}}
| | ==Idea== |
| | I think that when a Nobody meets with it's original being ( Such as when Roxas meets with Sora ) the nobody goes back to the normal soul, meaning that the nobody is non- existint anymore, resulting in the nobody being unborn. ( Namine and Roxas are exceptions ) When this happens, another being is created. But instead of one occurence = one heartless/nobody, it creates one unbirth with the power to multiply. Every time this happens, the original unbirth goes to a certain world. When it reaches this world, it starts multiplying. When the original unbirth is defeated, the other unbirth's are destroyed also.[[User:Master of Valor|Master of Valor]] 00:18, 25 January 2009 (UTC) |
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| I thank you nailed it at '''menace'''. If you can't controll something powerful, than it causes '''chaos''' and if they're is a realm of chaos than the keyblade and its weilder would have to be one of the five new keyblade weilders from Birth By Sleep-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]]
| | {{troisnyxetienne|text=You mean as in a neverending circle of threats ?}} |
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| {{TNE|text=Sweet, a realm of chaos ! :D Now what, find Keyblade Master #5 in the sequel ?}}
| | [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster says]]- Ralfiki did said that its the Circle of Life |
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| Well, if all of the keblade Masters die or something in birth by sleep than there's gotta be a sequel with a keyblade master[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]]
| | {{troisnyxetienne|text=That was the Circle of '''Life''' lol ! This is like some sorta circle of death !}} |
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| {{TNE|text=In that case, a Keyblade master apart from Sora, Riku, Kairi and Mickey. Now, who could be that chaotic ?}}
| | ==Just a thought== |
| | I was wandering if these unbirths (See pictures) will be the "main" unbirts, like Shadows are the main Heartless and Dusks are the main Nobodies?[[User:Shg.siggi|Shg.siggi]] 13:42, 25 January 2009 (UTC) |
| | [[Image:Unbirth.png|thumb|]][[Image:Unbirth2.png|thumb|]] |
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| Of course, but that would mean another major character, the revealing of Ven, Terra, and Aqua to Sora and the revealing of the new [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]]
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| {{TNE|text=Well, Xehanort's apprentice was seen wielding a Keyblade.}} | | {{troisnyxetienne|text=Methinks they are. By the way, Shadows are the main Heartless and their Nobody counterparts are the Creepers. The Heartless counterparts of Dusks are the Neoshadows.}} |
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| Lol, we all totally got off track, but let's look at this. Xigbar seems to know the most about all this Birth by Sleep stuff, followed by Xemnas. So maybe Braig is the reason why Xehanort lost his memories. It could also explain why Xemnas and Xigbar never seem to like eachother. Another theory, is that Xehanort IS Terra, explaining the similar looks, and Braig was supposed to be like a keyblade master, but instead Terra was picked instead, and Braig did the same thing Riku did with Sora in KH1, and then they became friends again... I probably sound crazy, but from my point of view... no I am crazy-- Morghman
| | Oh, I didn't know. Thank you :D[[User:Shg.siggi|Shg.siggi]] 13:42, 25 January 2009 (UTC) |
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| == Heartless,Nobody,and Unbirth == | | == not just the soul == |
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| {{Gohantalk|time=Breath into new life,Kuro Megami!|text=Is it a possibility that the Unbirth's that are the Body? Because as we all know,Heartless=Heart,Nobody=Soul
| | the problem is that it cant just be the soul because then there would be an overwhelming number of ubirths in the other kingdom hearts games and there absense would require an arbitrary explaination. heartless\ nobodys are made when you lose your heart something that is not natrule. but you are suposed to lose your soul its called dieing. |
| So it could be that the Unbirths are the Bodies,and what does this mean:
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| They are, in essence, "the opposite of human life." I still don't understand that.}}
| | now for some reason not every heartless spawns a nobody my theroy is this if a heartless is formed it affects the soul in such a way that it will move. if the soul sticks with the body you get a nobody if the soul gose with the heart instead of geting a heartless you get an unbirth. of course its also likely that if the soul will chose neither in wich case you get one heartless and a dead body. this would explain why heartless are more abundent then the other 2 |
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| Well what you say is wrong i think.
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| people have hearts. something without a heart = heartLESS
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| people have bodies. something withouth a body = NObody
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| people have souls. something without a soul, meaning that it has never been born. =unbirth.
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| The opposite of life is something wich hasn't been born. because death is part of the circle of life, it isn't the opposite.
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| {{Xiggie|text=You're wrong...
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| When someone (with a heart, body and Soul) is consumed by darkness, the darkness in his heart is given shape and form, therefore making a Heartless, however, if that person is a strong hearted individual turns into a heartless, "the empty shell he leaves behind starts to act with a will of its own", therefore creating a Nobody.
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| Unbirths can't have anything to do with this process. Otherwise, there would be Unbirths in the other games!
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| It's weird...
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| Heartless actually have hearts... and a body of darkness...
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| Nobodies actually have bodies... and a soul... but no heart
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| maybe Unbirths have a soul... and a heart...
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| Who knows?}}
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| {{Gohantalk|time=Absolute Power;If your lucky,it corrupts quickly!|text=Well I guess we'll just have to wait until BBS to find out.}}
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| ==Unbirth - Unborn==
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| It may be referring to beings that never had the chance to be born. If that is right, then it will explain why an Unbirth isn't present in the original games, seeing how Heartless and Nobodies are already born beings. [[User:Charmed-Jay]]
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| {{Xiggie|text=eh, how does that explain it?}}
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| It's called "Unbirth" and refers to the opposite of human life. if not death, then it mean never-born. maybe the spirit that died before it could hatch in a body. [[User:Charmed-Jay]]
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| Heartless are created from the hearts of people who fall into darkness. Nobodies are created from those people who lose their hearts. IMO, Unbirths are created from souls who don't have hearts and/or bodies. Simple, makes sense. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:40, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
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| {{Gohantalk|time=These a Thin line between Darkness and Light,Which side are you on?|text=So Unbirths are the Soul? Hm...makes sense.But who did they come to be? Who made them? Are they Created the same way Heartless or Nobodies are? So many questions,it mask my head hurt.}}
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| {{Xiggie|text=That makes good sense! hmm, they seem to be both pureblood (made naturally) and emblem (someone made them)... and there are no unbirths in the other KH ames... wonder what happened}}
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| ==In Kingdom Hearts II==
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| Just throwing this one out there. My friend and I restarted Kingdom Hearts II for the umpteenth time last night, and at the part where Roxas takes Naminé's drawing to the library, I though of something. You know how there are three symbols he has to draw in? You only get to see two: the Heartless and Nobody symbol. This is just a guess, but maybe the third one that the light blocks out is the unbirth symbol. Sorry if someone already mentioned this... ><;; [[User:Daydreamer3173|Daydreamer3173]]
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| GREAT THEORY. I think yours works. =) --Zack fair 007 23:05, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
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| that symbol was a crown (perhaps a "Somebody" or "Complete" emblem)and we already have an Unbirth symbol.and this theory has been stated thousands of times.Good try though.Swing and a miss.
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| Ah, well, I never heard it before, so I wasn't sure. What a shame. ><; -[[User:Daydreamer3173|Daydreamer3173]]
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| == These aren't even called Unbirths in english. ==
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| {{GS|time=17:55, 25 August 2009 (UTC)|text=An article from one of the new magazines has a BBS interview, which is currently being translated at KHI. Apparently, in the interview it says this:
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| "Megaton: They are not "unbirths". The English name is "unversed", meaning "ones not well-versed in existence" or "ones that do not understand life".
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| The translator then goes on to say:
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| "Unbirths" is a mistranslation. This article writes it out what it's supposed to be in English - "unversed" - and then further explains the literal meaning. We've been mis-understanding the phonetic Japanese all this time."
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| So yeah, waiting on the rest of the interview.}}
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| {{EO|time=17:59, 25 August 2009 (UTC)|happytext=Wouldn't the correct translation be "inversed"?}}
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| :"Unversed" is a real word and "inversed" isn't, if Forefox's spellchecker is anything to go by.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 18:03, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
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| ::It's not. Spellcheckers should almost never be trusted. [[User:Magugag|Magugag]] 02:47, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
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| :::Look it up, unversed is a word.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 03:20, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
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| {{EO|time=18:05, 25 August 2009 (UTC)|happytext=Guess I'm thinking math : inverse opperations (lit. the opposite of what has been done.) This may describe these so called "Unversed."}}
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| {{KrytenKoro|...eh. "Unversed" doesn't really fit the naming scheme we've had so far, and doesn't make sense with the "opposite of human life" bit, so I'd be really loathe to change everything until we get the actual Japanese text and can check it.}}
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| {{ShadowXemnas|text=Well, wait no more. I just checked KHInsider and looked at a (rough) translation of the interveiw with Tetsuya Nomura that confirms the information. Just like Guardian Soul said, they're called the "Unversed" in english, meaning ones who are not well-versed in the ways of life/existence. It goes on to say that they are created from negative emotions. No further explanation was made into how or why. It's very interesting. Other than the Unversed, the interview went on to discuss the Castle of Dreams and Deep Space (Sorry, everyone. KH will not be visiting Hawaii this year), the Command Deck system (Said to be similar to CoM, but very different), and a small mention of KHIII. Just a mention, no hints or anything.}}
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| {{GS|time=19:25, 25 August 2009 (UTC)|text=http://www.khinsider.com/latest/new-famitsu-nomura-interview.html}}
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| {{unbirthtalk|text=Cool, now my nickname don't mean anything anymore...}}
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| {{GS|time=20:55, 25 August 2009 (UTC)|text=There's nothing wrong with your name regardless.
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| Also, Kryten, I'd like to point out that they wrote 'Unversed' in English.}}
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| {{Unbirthtalk|text=Then why did you move it to '''Unverse''' ?}}
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| {{GS|time=21:18, 25 August 2009 (UTC)|text=Isn't 'Unversed' for more than one?}}
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| :How did you possibly come to that conclusion?—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 21:20, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
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| ::By the way, can we like ''not ever'' make up the katakana for something? I'm not sure who changed it, but Urutapu and me have been having to clean that up ''way'' more than should happen.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:08, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
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| ::Nevermind, it looks like the "Ba" spelling was the one that was made up.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:09, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
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| {{Gohantalk|text= When was it changed to Unversed?}}
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| {{unbirthtalk|text=Why would 'Unversed' be the plurial for 'Unverse' ? }}
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| ''Che'', we might as well call it ''Verse'' By Sleep now. LOL [[User:Maggosh|Maggosh]] 04:18, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
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| {{unbirthtalk|text=I'm worried about the translation they'll make in french for ''Unversed''. We already have '''Simili''' instead of '''Nobody'''...}}
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| I can only hope that this name change and new information will put an end to the Ven=Sora's Unverse theory. I really freaking hate people that think they would reuse that plot point. [[Special:Contributions/76.238.3.187|76.238.3.187]] 01:47, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
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| Isn't there a scene where ven and terra watch Riku and Sora fighting on the beach.....thus Ven can't be Sora
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| {{ghostboy3000|text= This is about unversed. Not Ven If you want to start up a conversation about Ven Go to his page then click Talk.}}
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| == "Illusionist" ==
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| {{Maggosh|text=[http://www.khinsider.com/images/BirthBySleep/famitsu_091224_05-06_eng.jpg]
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| On Page 121, it labels one of the Unversed as an "Illusionist", with quotation marks. Should this be taken as an official translation?}}
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| :Well, the quotation marks don't really mean anything (Japanese people put quotation marks on things when they want a little emphasis, apparently, because they use them about twice as much as an English speaker would) but no, it's not the enemy's name. I'm looking at the Japanese scan and in the same place, there's a Japanese name (kanji and hiragana); I doubt they'd write an enemy name in anything but katakana. The article is simply describing it as a magician-like enemy.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 17:23, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
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| == "Buckle Bruiser" ==
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| {{Maggosh|text=http://forums.khinsider.com/future-kingdom-hearts/141740-creator-message-tetsuya-nomura-message-kingdom.html
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| In the new blog post, Nomura mentions an Unversed named the "Buckle Bruiser" and that it is capable of repelling your attacks. That's Unversed #2; however we don't know which of the ones we've seen already are the BB so making a new page for it now would be useless. But we do know it shows up in Olympus Coliseum, so I'm guessing it's that Gladiator Unversed.}}
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| {{Maggosh|text=Totally called it.}}
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| ==Names==
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| have any confermation of name of the unversed? i need hes official name for my research
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| == Birth by Sleep Spoilers ==
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| The Unversed appear to be the creation of Vanitas, who is the creation of Master Xehanort (with Ventus' help). Vanitas, being made of all of the Darkness that was extracted from Ventus' Heart, is possibly the first Unversed. The Unversed, as you know, are considered the opposite of human life. In the KH Universe, humans are denizens of the Realm of Light. Vanitas, though extracted from a human, is pure Darkness and therefore cannot be a denizen of Light. Thus making him a human from the Realm of Darkness, which would overall make Vanitas a sort of 'anti-human', or the opposite of Human life. Because Vanitas is comprised only of Darkness, it is implied that he would have some control over it and could even influence the Darkness into consciousness and form as the Unversed.[[User:XYZach|XYZ.]] 05:27, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
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| Niiicceee!! Sounds like a winner to me!
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| ==Iron Prisoner?==
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| who is Iron Prisoner?
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| --[[User:PRISON KEEPER|PRISON KEEPER]] 14:31, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
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| Someone that you are holding against their will? LET THEM GO!
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| == What Are They? ==
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| {{LOMI|Goji=Am I to understand that, essentially, the Unversed ''are'' darkness given form?}}
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| {{Randomnessity|isa=Well they are the opposite of human life, created when Vanitas was created. So yes the Unversed most likely are darkness in physical form.}}
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| isn't that the heartless, darkness made real or darkness given form...[[Special:Contributions/75.162.81.166|75.162.81.166]] 23:27, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
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| {{Randomnessity|isa=No, Heartless are from the darkness in people's hearts.}}
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| Oh I get It now, um I think, man this game is confusing...[[Special:Contributions/75.162.81.166|75.162.81.166]] 23:32, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
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| {{Randomnessity|isa=It can be, but when you play it and are familiar with the series, things are easier to understand.}}
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| I have played all the games before it's just this birth by sleep is little more difficult to understand considering it's not out yet, anyways, so is vanitas a heartless because he is the darkness in ventus's heart? [[Special:Contributions/75.162.81.166|75.162.81.166]] 23:38, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
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| {{Randomnessity|isa=I think Vanitas is technically an Unversed because he is Ven's darkness and thus the opposite of Ven. Also, the Unversed were created with Vanitas's creation. Coincidence? Doubtful.}}
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| Now Im not familiar with the FF storyline so don't be mad if it's not as funny as intended but couldnt sephiroth be considered a unversed because he is clouds darkness?[[Special:Contributions/75.162.81.166|75.162.81.166]] 00:00, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
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| {{Randomnessity|isa=Well by the end of Birth By Sleep all Unversed are destroyed from existence, so I don't see how that could be possible.}}
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| Yeah, Vanitas is an Unversed. The way I see it, Unversed are the only creatures made of pure darkness. Heartless have a small bit of light deep within, as all hearts have some light (remember, Heartless are hearts). Also, Sora is full of light even though he is a humanoid Heartless (yes, he is, get used to it). Nobodies are just nothing. They have no alignment. So yeah. --[[Special:Contributions/24.34.218.11|24.34.218.11]] 22:03, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
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| == Proof of being "the first enemy"? ==
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| The Unversed seem to combine attributes of the Heartless and Nobodies. They have similar appearances to Heartless, and move like Nobodies. A sign of their being precursors, perhaps? And, should this be put in the article? [[Special:Contributions/68.190.210.240|68.190.210.240]] 03:23, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
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| {{Randomnessity|isa=I wouldn't think so. That's just speculation.}}
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| The Unversed, being an extension of Vanitas, wouldn't exist until his creation, right? Before Vanitas's creation, we see Ventus trying to fend off some Neoshadow Heartless. Unless someone had created an Unversed before Master Xehanort created Vanitas, I think it's safe to assume that the Heartless are the "first enemy," especially since Heartless could've existed for as long as darkness has been in hearts. Now depending on whether a heart strong enough to create a Nobody had been consumed by the time of Birth by Sleep (and if so, if they had the number, means, and desire to become a threat), Unversed would probably end up as the second or third.
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| A big problem we're having is that the history of the Kindom Hearts universe doesn't go very far back. Aside from a fairy tale and a few passing references to a Keyblade War, we've got little more than a decade of information.
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| [[User:ChicoKiri|ChicoKiri]] 15:08, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
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| == Hi-Res Emblem ==
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| I've noticed two things. First, the wiki's using higher-resolution emblems on the Heartless and Nobody pages, and the Heartless emblem in particular was a cleaned and upscaled version of the emblem found elswhere. My second observation, which may just be a lack of decent screen grabs, is that the Unversed don't use a blue-to-black faded scheme, but rather a black emblem with a white outline. As such, I've retraced the current emblem on the wiki in a vector program in black and added the white outline. I humbly offer it here for those with a bit more sense for this sort of thing to decide whether it ought to be added to the page or not. I've saved the image as a png with transparent background.
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| [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/Pabloco/UnverseRender.png Hi-Res Unversed Emblem]
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| [[User:ChicoKiri|ChicoKiri]] 04:24, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
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| Well, we do need a new image but not that one. Take a look at these images [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/File:OlympusColiseumUnversed.png here] and [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/File:Large_Body_Unbirth.PNG here]. The top four spikes on the emblem are more curvier than what is shown on the image that we have and your remake. The image we have on the page is an old image back from when they were still known as the "Unbirth". If you could make a updated version with the new curved spikes, we could talk about putting it up. - {{User:HeartOfOblivion/Sig}} 04:41, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
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| You know, I'd looked at those pictures to double check the colors, but it never occurred to me that the shape might've been altered. After taking a close look at the images, I decided to redraw all the points.
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| [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/Pabloco/UnversedRender.png Unversed Emblem: Take 2] [[User:ChicoKiri|ChicoKiri]] 16:08, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
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| ==Connection to [[Heartless]] and [[Nobody|Nobodies]]==
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| {{One-Winged Angel|time=16:30 February 1, 2010|zexion=I don't think the Unversed's connection has been revealed but I think I've figured it out. A complete being must have a [[Heart]], [[Body]], and [[Soul]]. Heartless are beings without a body because they separate from them. Nobodies don't have hearts and so following this pattern it becomes logical to say that Unversed are beings without souls and that's the connection. At least that's what I think.}}
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| == Sephiroth..... ==
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| {{XIII-DARKNESS|time=21:24, February 17, 2010 (UTC)|text=does this make Sephiroth a Unversed because he said he was Cloud's darkness?}}
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| {{One-Winged Angel|time=16:38 March 4, 2010|text=Sephiroth can't be an Unversed because as the article states: "With Vanitas's destruction, the Unversed are completely wiped from existence." LOL-Maybe in the KH Universe Prof. Hojo planted Cloud's darkness in Sephiroth like the way he plants the Jenova cells in him in FFVII LOL."}}
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| {{Oddishh|text=LOLZOMG. That would be so epic. I'd die to see Hojo in KH...}}
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| == Something confuses me ==
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| The article says that the Unversed are "those who were not well-versed in their own existences," but Vanitas is an Unversed and he seems to understand exscactly who he even more than Ven knows who himself is.[[User:Black Tornado|Black Tornado]] 21:02, February 24, 2010 (UTC)Black Tornado
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| the unverseds are the sentiment ofvanitas, vanitas may be technicaly a unversed but i don't think that he is
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| ==Emblem Unverseds==
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| Don't you think that the only Unversed that Vanitas really creat is the Flood(the only one without a emblem) and the others are Floods that grew from other peoples negative felling? I know that this seem to came out of nowhere but it kinda make sense--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 02:49, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
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| == Similarities to Heartless and Nobodies? ==
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| There are some. For instance, the numerous types of both heartless and unversed. And look at how the unversed react when hit, similar to the nobodies, right?[[Special:Contributions/24.205.43.42|24.205.43.42]] 05:52, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
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| :Maybe the Nobody thing, but there's numerous types of cats, as well, and that doesn't make cats similar to Heartless.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 08:11, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
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| They used the same movements for many things (the Flood "jumps" in the floor the exact same way as a Neoshadow, the ArchRaven flies exacty like a Wyvern, etc...), I guess they were simply a bit lazy. --[[File:Unbirthsmall.png|18px]] '''[[Utilisateur:Unbirth|<font color="#5a87ff">Unbirth</font>]]''' <sup>[[Discussion utilisateur: Unbirth|Submit!!]]</sup> 13:27, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
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| Nah, there's some sort of actual connection. I mean, yes, there are numerous types of cats, but look at the unversed, say, a flood, then look at a heartless, say, a shadow. You can tell that they're alike. And it's more that just a coincedence.--[[User:Kingdom zachdawg|Kingdom zachdawg]] 13:59, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
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| Yeah, that's what I was talking about. It seems like several of the Unversed have a similar Heartless (Flood/Shadow, Scrapper/Soldier, Trinity Armor/Guard Armor, the list continues)[[Special:Contributions/24.205.43.42|24.205.43.42]] 22:23, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
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| ==New Symbol==
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| I dont know if any of you know this, but the unversed symbol we have here is a fan made one, they never introduced the official unverse symbol until the theme showed up. So i suggest we change it
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| {{Maggosh|text=Wasn't there an issue of Famitsu that compared the Unversed with the Heartless and Nobodies?}}
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| Yes, but they used one seen from the unversed not the symbol by itself. still, we should remove this symbol and add in a new one. i'm sure the symbol is in the BBS Ultimania aswell>[[User:Aqua00000|Aqua00000]] 19:15, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
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| The user is right we shouldn't keep the symbol that we have is an artwork and it doesn't have the same shape of the real symbol--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 19:40, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
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| I tihnk there's an imange in the BBS ultimania. Does anyone here have a better unversed picture?[[User:Aqua00000|Aqua00000]] 19:26, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
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| ==Vanitas==
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| Why is Vanitas listed as an Unversed? He's a human with a heart of pure darkness. Just because he controls the Unversed, doesn't mean that he is one. That's like saying that Maleficent and Pete who can control the Heartless ARE Heartless. --[[User:Breaktheice16|BreaktheIce16]] <small>([[User talk:Breaktheice16|talk]])</small> 10:08, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
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| {{ErryTalk|text=He is probably an unversed because he himself is made out of negative emotions, just as much as Unversed themselves are.}}
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| Except he's not, he's all of the darkness of a person's heart given physical form.however, while technically he's not an unversed, he is the only one capable of creating them and controlling them and absorbs their sentiments when their defeated. He's almost like sora after Hollow Bastion, or Namine in some respects.[[Special:Contributions/204.211.185.107|204.211.185.107]] 18:25, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
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| ==Verseless==
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| In the English version of Birth by Sleep, they are known as "Verseless" not Unversed ([http://g4tv.com/games/psp/48272/kingdom-hearts-birth-by-sleep/articles/71761/Kingdom-Hearts-Birth-By-Sleep-Preview/ Source]) [[User:YamiNoBahamut|YamiNoBahamut]] 11:05, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
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| :Okay, obviously that was just G4 being pricks. Sorry for the confusion [[User:YamiNoBahamut|YamiNoBahamut]] 18:45, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
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| == Vanitas is a uversed ==
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| Okay unversed r negative emotions given off by plp vanitas is a unverse but hes like more heartless like But heartless dont get keyblades and arent born with a human apperance.So vanitas is special and pure evil.
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| == Trivia ==
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| the Trivia is false, it states the Unversed are the only species not controlled by some form of Xehanort, yet they are controlled by Vanitias, which is working for Master Xehanort, may i please fix this problem?--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 15:12, September 5, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman
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| {{Chitalian8|time=15:14, September 5, 2010 (UTC)|text= Vanitas may have been MX's apprentice, but he always had his own agenda with the Unversed. Besides, Vanitas directly controls them, like Xemnas to the Nobodies and Ansem, Seeker of Darkness to the Heartless.}}
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| Alright i guess that makes sense, thanks for clearing it up.--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 15:17, September 5, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman
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| == Vanitas ==
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| {{Falcos|text=I don't know about you guys, but it seems pretty plain to me, Vanitas is not an Unversed. The line I am using in my argument: ''"They are what I ''[Vanitas]'' feel."'' I'm pretty sure that Vanitas isn't what Vanitas feels.}}
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| Unversed are beings of pure evil manifested in physical form. Negativity, if you will.
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| Vanitas is Ventus' darkness in physical form. And what does negativity beget? Darkness. He is technically Ventus' Unversed as he is his darkness embodied. All of his evils. As stated in a previous headline, he's considered the king Unversed because of this. [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 16:09, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
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| {{Falcos|text=That's just it: All Unversed come from Vanitas. You can't have somebody's Unversed the same way you can a heartless or nobody. Vanitas came from Ven, not Vanitas, and all Unversed came from Vanitas. If you are going to continue this, please do so on the already existing argument that I didn't notice, on Vanitas's talkpage.}}
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| {{Drake|time=10:10, October 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=I'm wondering why if the opening paragraph says Vanitas is the first Unversed, he isn't in the Gallery.}}
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| == Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the fairest one of all ==
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| Why is the magic mirror listed? He can't be an Unversed, he is a Disney villain. How can a Disney character be an Unversed? [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 22:15, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
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| [[Gane talk:Magic Mirror]].{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}22:17, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
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| == BBSFM Pallette Swaps ==
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| Hey Guys, Just Recently, The Famitsu Scan Shows The Unversed In Different Colors. That Means the Unversed Will Receive Pallette Swaps Just Like the Heartless. Check it Out, It's on the KHInsider Forums Under Birth by Sleep. Here's the Website http://forums.khinsider.com/birth-sleep/156123-bbsfm-famitsu-illusion-commands-monstro-ma.html
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| {{Sac|text= You're right. It should be on the articles from ones we know for sure.}}
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| :We already knew this, but we are waiting for the game to come out so that we can rip the pictures. There's nothing really to insert but the pictures.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 14:38, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
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| == A Way to Tell? ==
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| The Floods are credited as representing irritation. I was thinking, could there be a way to tell what emotion each Unversed represents?[[User:Neo Bahamut|Neo Bahamut]] 03:53, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
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| There's no way to know for sure. We only know that Floods represent irritation because Nomura said so.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}03:58, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
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| Well, wouldn't the Cursed Coach & the Symphony Master be jealousy, since that's the emotion credited to Lady Tremaine & her daughters? I'm hoping we can at least chip away at this a little.
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| I'm not sure how accurate I can be on most of the boss Unversed, since those ones seem to be a complicated mix of different negative emotions. I'll try a few of them though:
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| '''Flood'''; Lots of sudden, jerky movements as though bothered by something. Represents ''irritation''.
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| '''Scrapper'''; Often moves in straight lines relative to the character's position (character is always the front end of the line), only curving around the character or running right past the character on rare occasion as though overly cautious of the character. Will sometimes appear to hug itself as though insecure and scan it's surroundings nervously while doing so. Represents ''nervousness''.
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| '''Bruiser'''; Hits extremely hard, often using moves that would hit an entire crowd at once. Burns itself out and gives into fatigue after rampaging for too long, however. Represents ''anger''.
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| '''Symphony Master'''; Conducts it's Unversed instruments, using them as nothing more than tools. Mostly acts all graceful, however will relatively frequently use a rather ungraceful combo as though enraged especially when an instrument is destroyed or things otherwise are not going as it planned. Represents ''lust for control'' and a ''superiority complex''.
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| '''Iron Prisoner'''; Hits as hard as it can at every opportunity to, often using lengthy combos and overall never stopping to rest. Not as powerful when kept pent up. Will make attempts to trap it's target, though these attempts are quite telegraphed and relatively easy to avoid. 100% unchained, will even suck it's target in and try to take it's target down with it in a fiery explosion (albeit that gameplay-wise it won't actually take any damage from this the animation is indeed that of it blowing itself up to try to take it's target down with it). Represents ''hatred in it's purest form''.
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| How's this seem? Does it seem fairly accurate so far? '''<u>''[[User:RadiantDarkBlaze|RadiantDarkBlaze]] ([[User talk:RadiantDarkBlaze|talk]]) 00:00, 30 May 2015 (UTC)''</u>'''
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| ==Proposed New Section==
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| Name: Creation and Purpose
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| "- Master Xehanort created Vanitas by using his Keyblade to extract the darkness within Ventus's heart. He explains that Vanitas uses his Keyblade to "sew the seeds of darkness in the worlds." This would imply that Vanitas uses his Keyblade in a similar manner to what Master Xehanort did to Ventus, creating the lesser Unversed out of the emotions of the inhabitants of the worlds. Indeed, Symphony Master and Cursed Carriage were credited as being born from the jealousy of Lady Tremaine and her daughters.
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| -
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| - As Vanitas explains, they were used to build up the trio for their respective purposes as pawns for the X-Blade's Creation or vessels for Xehanort. Additionally, there were several occasions where the Unversed attacked the Princesses of Heart. Although Master Xehanort claimed to want to protect their light, he most likely wanted their hearts to forge the Keyblade of People's Hearts."
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| It was deleted for being speculative. I must say, I am a little shaky on it, but I don't think I'm quite done with it yet. The first part coincides quite nicely with something earlier in the article, about Vanitas creating the Unversed from the negative emotions of others. The second part, again, coincides with an earlier statement in the article. The last part comes from Xehnort's Reports mentioning that said Keyblade is necessary to obtain Kingdom Hearts. And also that this is a prequel game.[[User:Neo Bahamut|Neo Bahamut]] 04:33, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
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| == MAGIC MIRROR UM I DONT THINK SO ==
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| i was looking at the pictures of the unversed and magic mirror is on there. this is wrong can someone please tell me why its on here[[Special:Contributions/24.9.94.34|24.9.94.34]] 23:50, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
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| [[Game talk:Magic Mirror|Read]].{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}23:55, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
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| ok thank you for clearing that up for me lapisScarab [[Special:Contributions/24.9.94.34|24.9.94.34]] 00:02, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
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| == Eyes ==
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| Since the eyes of the Unversed are suppose to represent different emotion, should we make a gallery for the different eyes or atleast put a screenshot of their eyes in the unversed individual pages.--[[User:Masgrande|Masgrande]] 16:30, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
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| I think people can see that for themselves. But this does remind me of something that's been bothering me for a while now: I agree that it's hard to tell what specific emotion most of the Unversed are, but those blue Unversed that are the BBS equivalent of Soldier Heartless (it's been a while since I've played the game, so sue me) are pretty obviously fright. They hang in the back, they shiver before attacking, & so on.[[Special:Contributions/75.206.207.147|75.206.207.147]] 21:02, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
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| == Unbirth ==
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| According to [http://www.khinsider.com/news/Dengeki-Interview-with-Tetsuya-Nomura-Finally-Surfaces-3104 goldpanner], there were official interviews and other info in Japanese magazines covering ''Birth by Sleep'' in which the Unversed's name was written "Unbirth" in English letters. This should be verified and noted on the page if true, which currently claims that "Unbirth" is entirely due to the fandom.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 22:03, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
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| ==They can exist even without Vanitas==
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| In both BbS and KH3 after Vanitas's death/defeat, you can still find Unversed. In BbS in the final episode, if you go in other worlds, you can still find Unversed, and in KH3, after you defeat Vanitas, you can still find Unversed at Monstropolis, so they can still exist without Vanitas--[[Special:Contributions/93.150.192.173|93.150.192.173]] 12:30, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
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| : That's because of gameplay, not story. Story-wise, you're not visiting the other worlds in the Final Episode, or Monstropolis after completing the story there. Therefore, you do not encounter any Unversed after Vanitas's death. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 14:43, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
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| :: I can agree with BbS, but in KH3, there is the portals, and Sora can do them only before the final battle... so... yhea, Sora return to Monstropolis. "but that will not make sense", in the begining of KH3 was said Sora already fight against Rock and Ice Titans, and he could do that just after he do the final keyhole, same for Xemnas, since he say to Roxas that he meet Sora... so... the "optional battles" are indeed canon, then if you want to ignore that, ok, I just wanted to help. I too agree the Unversed die after Vanitas's defeat, but not immediatly, since seems more they die after a bit--[[Special:Contributions/93.150.192.173|93.150.192.173]] 14:50, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
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| :::I don't believe the battlegates are considered canon, like how the Secret Portals in 3D aren't canon. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 14:58, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
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| ::::Can we add a citation for this claim that they can't exist without him? My understanding was that they were what brought him back in the first place.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:56, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
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| :::::My understanding was it was the opposite: Xehanort brought Vanitas back, and the negativity in Monstropolis allowed Vanitas to spawn Unversed. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 16:36, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
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| ==Second Lump of Horror image==
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| I noticed that the [[Lump of Horror|Lump of Horror's]] second form is not recorded on here yet. I would put this statement on its discussion page but I coudn't. Surry to be a bother.
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| [[Special:Contributions/82.44.248.104|82.44.248.104]] 18:05, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
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| == Pre BBS ==
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| Why is this section not considered canon? {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 17:19, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
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| :It's probably from the BBS novels but I'm not sure either. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 17:46, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
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| :: It is indeed from the novel. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 20:12, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
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