Editing Talk:Squall Leonhart

Shouldn't this be named as he is in game?  We're not writing about the Final Fantasy character, we're writing to match the Kingdom Hearts info.  '''''[[User:Scottch|<font color=#00cccc>Scott]]</font>[[User talk:Scottch|<font color=#ff9900>ch]]'''''</font> 02:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
:I agree with Scotty-boy on this one. Names should be as proposed in the KH-game, not as the original Final Fantasy. --[[User:Hecko X|Hecko X]] 10:03, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

== Grammar ==

Edited for bad grammar and sentence fragments.

==Cleaning Up==
Man! This article was in such a mess that I have to clean it up. I've also added some information from the KH Ultimania. The only section that I haven't touch on yet is the KH2 section. Will get that done a.s.a.p. -[[User:DivineLady|DivineLady]] 10:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

....About 60% of all articles in this wiki is messed up, think that the previous version is a mess? check the earliest version before Netherith came helping in! ): -[[user: NeloAngelo|Nelo]]
*I have seen the previous version. And although Netherith's version helped a lot, there were still some spelling and grammar mistakes. Not to mention that the articles have to also be written in a "Wikified" manner for others to understand (this coming from a Wikipedia contributor). So that's why I cleaned it up, mostly... -[[User:DivineLady|DivineLady]] 11:00, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
<br>
Right. I suppose I should have put something up to tell you people that I had not finished editing yet but what's done is done. To this end I will be bringing some things you people deleted back up. DO NOT DELETE THEM. If you want you can help to fill the sections out. Don't worry, I will keep what you guys have added, I do not own this page after-all.<br>
For those of you who don't know me and are concerned about me handling of this page check the [http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Squall_Leonhart Squall Leonhart] page in the FFWiki. I was a major contributor to the layout and addition of information to that page as well as other such as [http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/SeeD SeeD], [http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Gunblade Gunblades] and [http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Paine Paine].
[[User:Netherith|Netherith]] 11:22, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Interesting. Now I finally know why you guy(gals) hated Wikipedia(-pedians) so much-[[user: NeloAngelo|Nelo]]
:What was deleted that you intend to "bring back up"? --[[User:Hecko X|Hecko X]] 12:00, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::Well I'm so sorry about that! if you want to bring back some of the deleted data you have added in, I'll look into the History section for that. I've only cleaned up mainly the KH1, COM and KH2 sections. But what else do you actually need to put in the article? "Battle style"? "Abilities"? -[[User:DivineLady|DivineLady]] 12:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

wowowow, Before more wiki-wikipedia wars, I'd like to say something, instead of focusing on arguing Leon's page, why don't we expand other articles as well? like Tifa, who's info is painfully lacking. I trust Netherith would do a good job on Leon's page so why don't we just drop it? ---[[user: NeloAngelo|Nelo]]
:No one is waging any wars; it's better to fully settle one article, otherwise we won't be able to fully focus on whatever other article we start on; we don't just drop it, because then we would never come to a conclusion. Simple, ne? ^_^ --[[User:Hecko X|Hecko X]] 12:22, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

== Age ==

Do we know how old Leon is?

[[User:GohanRULEZ|gohanRULEZ]] 18:46, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

*He's 25 in Kingdom Hearts, according to the KH official website as well as the Ultimania. [[Special:Contributions/118.138.198.67|118.138.198.67]] 11:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

{{Hotdragon|time=20:06, July 13, 2010 (UTC)|text=They make Squall older so he will be of the same age as the other FF character.}}

==Keyblade Master==

{{Givox|text=I noticed that in the cut scene where Leon is rushing back to computer room to download the data derezz, he killed several heartless. When he does this, hearts are released from the heartless and float away. I also noticed that his gunblade has a keychain on it. I was just thinking that he may be a keyblade wielder.}}


His gunblade has ALWAYS had a chain on it. --[[Special:Contributions/72.160.100.81|72.160.100.81]] 02:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

{{Givox|text=Even before Kingdom Hearts? Sorry, I've never played FFVIII}}

{{Xiggie|time=21:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)|text=While it's true that when Leon defeats Heartless, their hearts are released (which was only stated to be possible to be done by a Keyblade)

but that also happens when  Sephiroth defeat Heartless, so is he a keyblader too? no!}}

{{Givox|text=When did Sepiroth defeat a Heartless? I guess is must have missed that scene...}}
{{EO|happytext=On the Ravine Trail in Hollow Bastion. He appeared before Cloud, who was surrounded by Armored Knights. Sephiroth defeated them with a single swoop of his sword, then proceeding to taunt Cloud.}}

{{Givox|text= I looked it up on YouTube and i guess your right. So.... Obviously Sephroth isn't a keyblader, so mabey the fact that hearts were released even though it was not a keyblade, was just a mistake?}}
{{EO|happytext=No. It was on purpose. The Heartless were in Sephiroth's way, so he eliminated them to get to Cloud.}}
{{EO|happytext=Edit - Any force could destroy a Heartless. Keyblade or not...Heartless are hearts that are dark given form, so it is obvious a heart is released when the dark link is severed.}}

{{Givox|text=I realize that, but it was said that only the keyblade could release a heart from a heartless...}}
{{EO|happytext=True, but other weapons can, too. The Keyblade is the only one that can send hearts to Kingdom Hearts.}}
{{Xiggie|time=20:23, 13 July 2009 (UTC)|text=But, as you can see in KH Days, when a non-keyblader defeats a Heartless, the released heart is black and white, instead of that "heart pink" pink color. 

So... when when a keyblader releases a Heart, it is colored, and goes to Kingdom Hearts... but why are the Hearts released by Leon and Sephiroth colored?}}
{{EO|happytext=Possibly because they know of the Keyblade.}}

{{Givox|text=Maybe, but whoever is killing heartless in Days probably knows about the Keyblade. Where did you see the black and white hearts?}}
{{Xiggie|time=22:22, 13 July 2009 (UTC)|text=I've stared playing KH Days.}}
{{Givox|text=Ah. I see. Is it the Orginization that is killing the heartless?}}

maybe days is a retcon to it.

{{TNE|blahtext=The Organisation knows that Roxas wields the Keyblade, so they used him to kill the Heartless and form Kingdom Hearts. Because only with the Keyblade, hearts come out of Heartless '''and''' enter into Kingdom Hearts. With other people, hearts are released, but don't go up there.

Xemnas created Xion as a fail-safe for Sora in case he never woke up - and she too, served the same purpose as Roxas.

Remember the plan of Xemnas : he wanted Kingdom Hearts to be complete so that he could achieve his mission of ruling other worlds.}}

{{LyingMemories|time=[[User:Lying Memories|Lying Memories]] 09:45, July 29, 2010 (UTC)|luxord= Basically it goes something like this. Anyone who is strong enough can destroy the Heartless, and with the Emblem Heartless, the heart that was corrupted by darkness will still float away. HOWEVER, just because it floats away doesn't mean that it is free from the bondage of the darkness. When Sora destroys the Heartless, their hearts become free, remaining in a sort of limbo state until their nobody (if one was made) is destroyed as well. After that has happened, the lost heart, body, and soul form together again to give rebirth to the person who was lost to the darkness.}}

{{Naruto195|time=[[User:Naruto195|Naruto195]] 09:56, July 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=When Donald and goofy attacked the Heartless in KH1,they couldn't hurt it yet after meeting Sora they could. Think of it this way,maybe the Keybkade gives off a Aura which enables the people closely related to Sora's heart to do the same.}}

{{LyingMemories|time=[[User:Lying Memories|Lying Memories]] 10:06, July 29, 2010 (UTC)|luxord= valid point, but then again, this IS donald and Goofy we're talking about. They're kinda two bumbling lovable characters (no offense Donald and Goofy! XD). Is there actually a thing that says before they met Sora they couldn't defeat the Heartless? Like in Ultimania or something? And besides, Leon had been defending Traverse Town long before Sora showed up.}}

{{Naruto195|time=[[User:Naruto195|Naruto195]] 10:09, July 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=If you look in the scene,Donald attacks the Heartless with Magic but it fails. Squall also knows a huge amount about the Keyblade,so maybe he met someone who wielded one? Just a thought}}

{{LyingMemories|time=[[User:Lying Memories|Lying Memories]] 10:25, July 29, 2010 (UTC)|luxord= Donald only says "Let's go get em Goofy", but the scene never shows him ACTUALLY casting his magic. All we see is him flying through the air. So they never got a chance to launch an attack, so we really don't know if they could've beaten them themselves or not. }}

==Has anyone noticed ?==
{{TNE|time=03:23, September 8, 2009 (UTC)|text=When the Heartless invaded Hollow Bastion and destroyed it, Squall's original name '''Leonhart''' (or as some put it, '''Leonheart''') was changed simply to '''Leon'''. There's some significance in it, see ?}}
{{Xemwath|text=I thought he changed his name from "Squall" to Leon?}}
{{LyingMemories|time=[[User:Lying Memories|Lying Memories]] 09:47, July 29, 2010 (UTC)|luxord= He did change it from Squall to Leon. He changed his name as a way to escape the memory of him not being able to save his beloved home world from the Heartless and Maleficent.}}

==Name==
Dunno if this is notable, but... I was just boredly reading through the KH1 manual, and in the credits section, it refers to "Squall (Leon)". Between that and the journal entries, I'm thinking maybe the article should be renamed after all... But either way, should the manual bit be mentioned in the Trivia? [[User:Dazuro|Dazuro]] 21:44, October 17, 2009 (UTC)
:KHII journal specifically says his real name is "Squall Leonhart". In my mind, the page should be moved to "Squall Leonhart" or "Squall "Leon" Leonhart".[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 04:02, October 18, 2009 (UTC)
The Cloud article isn't titled "Cloud Strife", instead it is "Cloud", and that's how he addressed in Kingdom Hearts. Squall is addressed as "Leon" and I believe that the article should be "Leon".
::Bringing this topic back up. We have a full name explicitly given, with Leon as a nickname or alias rather than being something quite like "Ansem, Seeker of Darkness", where the only people calling him Xehanort's Heartless are doing that to dehumanize him. If the journals weren't so insistent about his real name being Squall Leonhart, maybe it would be more considerate to use his common name, but...they are insistent.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 03:21, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
I'm ok either leaving it like this or moving to "Squall Leonhart", but considering how we'll still be linking in articles to "Leon", wouldn't it make sense to leave it?  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 22:35, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

The credits roll for ''Kingdom Hearts Final Mix'' from ''Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX'' credit his voice actor's character as "Squall(Leon)" (yes, no space between 'l' and '(').—[[User:Kaimi|Kaimi]] ([[User talk:Kaimi|talk]]) 22:01, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
::I'd like it to be consistent, yeah. I vote for Squall "Leon" Leonhart or just Squall Leonhart.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 04:06, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
:::We can name the article Squall Leonhart, and just add "Squall "Leon" Leonhart in the introduction. :) Lots of wikias do it, and I support the idea of doing it.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 21:28, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

== Rinoa  ==

{{CA|time=21:28, July 18, 2010 (UTC)|text=The letter at the end of KHII. Was that from Rinoa? I thought that's what the butterfly meant... or was it just some random foreshadowing that was not about Rinoa?}}

{{Hotdragon|time=20:08, July 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=Oh yeah??? It's was a butterfly! I was sure this was something like a heart. But, first i'm not really sure if the letter was from Rinoa, she never been mentions in all the KH.}}
{{LapisScarab|time=20:17, July 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=Seems like a pretty clear nod to Rinoa to me. It wasn't a butterfly so much as it was a pair of wings, like the ones on her duster. Why should it matter if she's never been mentioned in KH before? That didn't stop Tifa from showing up in KHII when she wasn't in KHI.}}
{{CA|time=13:54, August 4, 2010 (UTC)|text=I thought it was referencing Rinoa in some way... But I wasn't sure because they never did anything like that with another character, putting in a reference in the credits that only some people (In this case, Final Fantasy fans) Would know...}}

I hope they show Rinoa in future KH games.  More Final Fantasy characters are awesome.  [[User:Kutlessrocker23|Kutlessrocker23]] 02:32, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

Cyrus, they had never planned on making another Kingdom Hearts, so they wouldn't have put a nod to another FF character. And they have done it with BbS. In the end credits, Zack watches a black feather (obviously Sephiroth) float down in front of him. Then he disappeared. --Jacobmirror 16:02, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

{{CA|time=21:28, July 18, 2010 (UTC)|text=How would you know if they weren't planning on making another? Just because they didn't already announce a third KH doesn't mean they could be planning to put Rinoa in the KHIII and that certainly does not mean that HAD to put her in BBS}}

== Opening Paragraph ==

Due to the move, we ''need'' to make note of how he later chose to be known as "Leon." Otherwise, it makes no sense to randomly call him "Leon" throughout the article but make absolutely no mention as to why in the opening paragraph. Honestly, why are the non-''KH'' names taking precedence here? - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 00:15, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, actually, it's already mentioned in the opening paragraph, as well as under the Story section detailing his events during ''BBS'' and ''KH''.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 03:46, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
@@ Line 116: / Line 116: @@
 Due to the move, we ''need'' to make note of how he later chose to be known as "Leon." Otherwise, it makes no sense to randomly call him "Leon" throughout the article but make absolutely no mention as to why in the opening paragraph. Honestly, why are the non-''KH'' names taking precedence here? - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 00:15, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
-::Well, actually, it's already mentioned in the opening paragraph, as well as under the Story section detailing his events during ''BBS'' and ''KH''.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 03:46, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
+Well, actually, it's already mentioned in the opening paragraph, as well as under the Story section detailing his events during ''BBS'' and ''KH''.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 03:46, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
-::It should say so in the opening sentence, though. As in, "'''Squall Leonhart''', later known as '''Leon'''…" - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 04:11, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
-:::The first sentence identifies what the topic is, then the paragraph gives brief context. That bit fits the standard. As far as making sure the reader is aware, "Leon" is bolded, and is in only the second sentence. The reader's not gonna miss it.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 05:28, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
-::::Odd, because I did… Oh well. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 06:03, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
-== Move to Leon ==
-I propose the page be moved to [[Leon]]. It is how he is called both by the characters (with him being called Squall only once, at the very start of the first game). It is also how the games call him, through journal entries, medals and museum cards. Squall Lenohart is only mentioned in passing as his "full/real name". Even on the wiki, the name is only used in reference to his original FF8 self, and for the page titles themselves. Templates use Leon, which means that, in some places, pipelinks are needed. - [[User:Zawza46|Zawza46]] ([[User talk:Zawza46|talk]]) - 15:37, 06 January 2024 (UTC)
-:I disagree. Although his journal entries are called Leon, almost all of them mention his real name. Since our policy is to use a character's real, full name, as it appears in KH, I see no reason to make an exception here. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:55, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
-::With respect to wiki policy, I agree with TSH.
-::The last time this was discussed here, it ended on this note from KrytenKoro: "''We have a full name explicitly given, with Leon as a nickname or alias[...] If the journals weren't so insistent about his real name being Squall Leonhart, maybe it would be more considerate to use his common name, but...they are insistent.''" I don't think the situation has changed much since then. Given that the current precedent is to use the full official name as it appears in the series, even if it isn't the most common title (such as [[James P. Sullivan]], [[Eugene Fitzherbert]], and [[Turbo]]), and given that we have journals as recent as KHUX and KHIII repeatedly saying that Squall Leonhart is the "real name" and "full name," the current title makes the most sense within our rules.
-::'''However''', you bring up a good point with navbox templates: I agree that navigation is easier when everything that redirects to the current page is also bolded in the navbox. This isn't exclusive to characters – for instance, Fira and Firaga aren't bolded on the Magic navbox when on the [[Fire]] page, and "Rage Awakened -The Origin-" isn't bolded on the Music navbox when on the "[[Rage Awakened]]" page –  so if we wanted to make this change it would require us to bite the bullet with piped links regardless (but I guess that's really a separate discussion.) —<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:110%>[[User:Aid1043|<span style="color:#9932CC">Aid</span>]][[User talk:Aid1043|<span style="color:#9932CC">1043</span>]]</span> 01:57, 7 January 2024 (UTC)