Editing Talk:Simba and Nala's cub

==Origin section==
Isn't the "Origin" section way too long? It's nearly an essay is size. ;P —[[User:Kaimi|Kaimi]] ([[User talk:Kaimi|talk]]) 12:31, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
:Yes, origin sections are meant to be concise summaries- no more than a paragraph or two long. Feel free to condense or rewrite it. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 13:50, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
::I only watched the first ''The Lion King'' so I'm afraid that my tries to keep it short and to the point would be in terrible. I think I'll let someone more knowledgable do this.—[[User:Kaimi|Kaimi]] ([[User talk:Kaimi|talk]]) 14:22, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
:::Hahaha... ^_^; I'm sorry, that's my bad. I'm detailed when I do my summaries. I tried not to make too long, but I ended making it long in spite of that. But I don't know how to condense it into smaller size without leaving out the important points in the plot. :P--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 19:38, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
I have tried to cut it down as best as I could. If someone can do better, by all means do so. Origin sections are not meant to detail the full movie- hence the Wikipedia links. A good origin section for a main character, movie wise, would be [[Hercules]]. Not sure if [[Forum:Character Page Improvement|this]] is of any help, but I'll leave it here. {{User:Xion4ever/Sig}} 23:02, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
::Well, I did most of the Origins sections when I was off during my holidays in college. I'm still on summer break, and I finished reading some books I wanted to read over the summer, so I'll go and look back on them and see what I can do.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 03:48, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

== Not Kiara ==

{{EO|time=19:32, 12 July 2014 (UTC)|text=I don't believe this is Kiara... If you look closely at the end of ''The Lion King'', Simba's child looks just like Simba did when he was first presented by Rafiki at the opening of the film, thus Simba's child in ''The Lion King'', which the events in the Pride Lands in ''KHII'' are based off of, would be male. It could just be my own misconception, but Kiara looks much different than the cub in ''The Lion King'' and ''KHII'' both facially, color-wise, et cetera (the lion cub in ''The Lion King'' also has much more pronounced scruffiness on the tip of its head than Kiara does, at least to me; this is typical of male lion cubs in ''The Lion King'' to designate them from female cubs, like Nala). Here are some images for the sake of comparison:

*[http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h152/Solle_2006/album_7.jpg Young Simba]
*[http://www.animationsource.org/images/users/1247/380.jpg Simba's Child (''The Lion King'')]
*[http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140116011911/lionking/images/3/37/FattyKiara.png Young Kiara (''The Lion King II: Simba's Pride'')]

Notice how similar young SImba and his child in ''The Lion King'' look. Obviously ''The Lion King II'' uses a different coloring and art style than ''The Lion King'', but something about the young Kiara just screams "girl" to me, whereas I can't see the lion cub from ''The Lion King'' any other way but as a male, given the identical appearance (overall) to Simba when he was that age. 

I personally find dubbing this article "Kiara" to be a bit too speculative and presumptuous, when the character in question wasn't even named in ''KHII''. Yes, anyone who knows ''The Lion King II'' can say that Simba has one child with Nala, and that is Kiara. However, in terms of ''Kingdom Hearts'', this is conjecture. As stated once by KrytenKoro on another article's talk page, "This Wiki doesn't deal in conjecture." 

I would like to suggest renaming this article "Simba's Child" or something along those lines. That way, we can overlook the uncertainty <s>and the spontaneous sex change of this lion cub</s>. I know there's some strange "backstory" or "fan-franchise" regarding ''The Lion King'' that deals with Scar's childhood, other children of Simba, et cetera, but I think that's taking things a little too far to suggest that "What if the child from ''The Lion King'' and Kiara are two different cubs?"}}
@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 I personally find dubbing this article "Kiara" to be a bit too speculative and presumptuous, when the character in question wasn't even named in ''KHII''. Yes, anyone who knows ''The Lion King II'' can say that Simba has one child with Nala, and that is Kiara. However, in terms of ''Kingdom Hearts'', this is conjecture. As stated once by KrytenKoro on another article's talk page, "This Wiki doesn't deal in conjecture."
-I would like to suggest renaming this article "Simba's Child" or something along those lines. That way, we can overlook the uncertainty <s>and the spontaneous sex change of this lion cub</s>. I know there's some strange "backstory" or "fan-franchise" regarding ''The Lion King'' that deals with Scar's childhood, other children of Simba, et cetera, but I think that's taking things a little too far to suggest that "What if the child from ''The Lion King'' and Kiara are two different cubs?"
+I would like to suggest renaming this article "Simba's Child" or something along those lines. That way, we can overlook the uncertainty <s>and the spontaneous sex change of this lion cub</s>. I know there's some strange "backstory" or "fan-franchise" regarding ''The Lion King'' that deals with Scar's childhood, other children of Simba, et cetera, but I think that's taking things a little too far to suggest that "What if the child from ''The Lion King'' and Kiara are two different cubs?"}}
-EDIT 19:35, 12 July 2014 (UTC) - Looking at the "Kiara" render, it does look a lot like young Kiara does...man this is confusing. Just because it looks like Kiara doesn't mean it is; ''The Lion King'' is what ''KHII'' is based on, not the sequel.}}
-Considering the whole thing we had with [[Shark]], I think it's perfectly reasonable to rename this "Simba's child".   --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 05:46, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
-::Agreed. If it's not named in ''Kingdom Hearts'' as "Kiara", it's not okay to assume so or call it that here. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 14:27, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
-:::Sounds fine to me. I'm assuming we're safe to move then? {{User:Xion4ever/Sig}} 17:47, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
-::::Does that mean we have to remove the Origins section, too? I worked really hard on it. T _ T--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 19:27, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
-No, the origin section is still needed. However, the page needs to be rewritten under the examples on [[Shark]] and [[Maleficent's Raven]]. So, the opening line of the origin section would be something like: "Simba's child, known as '''Kiara''' [http://movies.disney.com/the-lion-king-2-simbas-pride ref], originates from the ''{{w|The Lion King}}'' and its sequel ''{{w|The Lion King II}}''." {{User:Xion4ever/Sig}} 19:49, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
-Except, saying the child is known as Kiara is the same as accepting the "assumption" of having the article named Kiara. The same is true if we keep the origin, it's accepting that the child is Kiara, which we're supposedly rejecting on the basis that there's no proof in the games that it's actually Kiara. I don't think it's necessary to move it. After all, ''Kingdom Hearts'' builds on the Disney universe, it doesn't recreate it. There's nothing wrong with leaving it as Kiara because it's a safely-accepted fact. It might get more confusing and weird to deny that it's Kiara, even if there's nothing in the actual games that says it is. {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 23:31, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
-== Needs to be merged into Pride Lands or renamed "Simba and Nala's cub" ==
-The kana, as far as I can tell, are fake.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:25, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
-Wouldn't "Unnamed Lion Cub" be a better fit? I mean, we don't ''technically'' know that she or he is Simba's real child. I'm half-joking, by the way.{{User:Raitomidnight555/Sig}} 19:52, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
-:I agree with with merging into the Pride Lands page, as this is how we usually deal with characters who only made cameo appearances and/or mentioned in the franchise, but have no plot relevance to the games itself.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 20:40, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
-::I agree with NinjaSheik. The appearance is very minor, so it doesn't really deserve its own page. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 21:44, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
-:::Bump. Everyone is in agreement, then?--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 19:38, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
-::::I think so. I'm curious what the reasoning was for making this page in the first page. {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 04:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
-:::::I made it as a redirect, I think based on the file name? I'm not certain.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 12:14, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
-::::::[[Talk:List of minor characters#Discussion|In a discussion about a page for minor characters]], it was decided that they each get their own page if they actually appeared, and not just mentioned. Around that time the article got expanded, so that's probably the reason. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:53, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
-:::::::Ah, I see. We really need to update our MoS about which characters get their own separate articles. I know a few wikis who only make separate articles for the characters as long as they have a substantial/significant involvement in the series, so characters who have made only made cameo appearances or have been mentioned don't need their own articles. Kiara is only shown in the credits, so unless she appears in KHIII or any future related media like the manga or KHX, then it's pretty pointless for her to have her own article.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 21:42, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
-So I'm down to remove this article. It's not very informative or helpful in the series and ought to just be merged into the story of Pride Lands. It's not wrong to believe it's Kiara, but the separate article is just unnecessary (Alternatively, we could just mention her as the child of Simba and Nala in one sentence). However, I also think this goes into us doing the same for the other articles in this page that now have entire articles that are largely unhelpful and unnecessary. {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 06:33, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
-:::::::::I think it's acceptable to have a non-canon name solely as a redirect, but beefing it up into an article, and ''especially'' adding in the kana makes it seem like we're claiming the series shows more than it actually does. I'm not sure what "official" name we would do, though.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:57, 10 July 2018 (UTC)