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| ==Notes from Ultimania for posterity (taken from [[Talk:Dark Riku]])==
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| Okay, so here's what the ultimania says for the nature and fate of the RO13 ([https://i.imgur.com/3HdxtFr.jpg]):
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| ::"Reserve members are called out with '(Reserve)'" (補欠メンバパーであることを示す)
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| {|border=1 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0 class="sortable" style="text-align:center; font-size:90%" align="center" width=600px
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| |- bgcolor="#3A3A3A"
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| |width="30%" style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Name'''
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| |width="30%" style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''What kind of being is it?'''<br>(どのような存在か)
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| |width="30%" style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''What happened after this fight?'''<br>(今回の戦いのあとどうなったが)
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| |- bgcolor="#E6E6FA"
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| |'''[[Master Xehanort]]'''||Themself (human)<br>本人(人間)||destroyed (ascended to heaven)<br>消滅 (昇天)
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| |- bgcolor="#E6E6FA"
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| |'''[[Young Xehanort]]'''||A Replica containing the heart of the Young Xehanort from the past<br>レプリカに過去のアンセムの心が入っている||destroyed (heart returned to the past)<br>消滅(心は過去にもどる)
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| |'''[[Terra-Xehanort]]'''||The body of Terra containing the heart of the Terra-Xehanort from the past<br>テラの身体に過去のテラ=ゼアノートの心が入っている||Terra's heart returns to body, restoring Terra (Terra-Xehanort's heart is destroyed)<br>身体にテラの心がもどり、テラとして復活(テラ=セアノートの心は消滅)
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| |'''[[Ansem, Seeker of Darkness]]'''||A Replica containing the heart of the Ansem from the past<br>レプリカに過去のアンセムの心が入っている||destroyed<br>消滅
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| |- bgcolor="#E6E6FA"
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| |'''[[Xemnas]]'''||A Replica containing the heart of the Xemnas from the past<br>レプリカに過去のゼムナスの心が入っている||destroyed<br>消滅
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| |'''[[Vanitas]]'''||A Replica containing the heart of the Vanitas from the past<br>レプリカに過去のヴァニタスの心が入っている||destroyed<br>消滅
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| |- bgcolor="#E6E6FA"
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| |'''[[Xigbar]]'''||Themself (Nobody)<br>本人(ノーバディ)||returned to human(?) and still alive<br>人間にもどり(?)生存
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| |'''[[Vexen]]''' (Reserve)||Themself (Nobody)<br>本人(ノーバディ)||returned to human without being defeated and still alive<br>倒されないまま人間にもどり生存
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| |- bgcolor="#E6E6FA"
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| |'''[[Saïx]]'''||Themself (Nobody)<br>本人(ノーバディ)||returned to human and still alive<br>人間にもどり生存
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| |- bgcolor="#E6E6FA"
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| |'''[[Demyx]]''' (Reserve)||Themself (Nobody)<br>本人(ノーバディ)||returned to human and still alive(?)<br>人間にもどり生存(?)
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| |- bgcolor="#E6E6FA"
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| |'''[[Luxord]]'''||Themself (Nobody)<br>本人(ノーバディ)||returned to human and still alive(?)<br>人間にもどり生存(?)
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| |- bgcolor="#E6E6FA"
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| |'''[[Marluxia]]'''||Themself (Nobody)<br>本人(ノーバディ)||returned to human and still alive(?)<br>人間にもどり生存(?)
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| |- bgcolor="#E6E6FA"
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| |'''[[Larxene]]'''||Themself (Nobody)<br>本人(ノーバディ)||returned to human and still alive(?)<br>人間にもどり生存(?)
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| |- bgcolor="#E6E6FA"
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| |'''[[Dark Riku]]'''||A Replica containing the heart of the Riku Replica from the past<br>レプリカに過去のリク＝レプリカの心が入っている||destroyed, leaving behind the original Replica body as a vessel (the original body is used as a vessel for Namine)<br>器となるレブリカの素体を残して消滅(残きれた素体はナミネの器として利用される)
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| |'''[[Xion]]'''||A Replica containing "the heart of Xion from her early days as a member of the XIII Order"<br>レプリカに「XIII機関に加入して間もないころのシオンの心」が入っている||original heart was returned from Sora and her memories were redeemed, and she defected to the side of the Guardians of Light<br>ソラから本来の心がもどって記憶を取りもどし,光の守護者側へ転身
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| |}
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| {{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 12:53, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
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| ==Isa== | | ==Isa== |
| What proof do we have that this is Isa and not Saix? The fact that Lea calls him that is not all that conclusive, considering how Axel and Saix called each other by their original names in KHD. --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 19:14, 9 April 2012 (UTC) | | What proof do we have that this is Isa and not Saix? The fact that Lea calls him that is not all that conclusive, considering how Axel and Saix called each other by their original names in KHD. --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 19:14, 9 April 2012 (UTC) |
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| Young Xehanort refers to the reformed Organization as the {{nihongo|true Organization XIII|真のXIII機関|Shin no Jūsan Kikan}}, as the other members assemble in the thrones. [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 19:37, 23 May 2012 (UTC) | | Young Xehanort refers to the reformed Organization as the {{nihongo|true Organization XIII|真のXIII機関|Shin no Jūsan Kikan}}, as the other members assemble in the thrones. [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 19:37, 23 May 2012 (UTC) |
| :Well, in the NA version, Young Xehanort refers to them, in this same cutscene, as the real Organization XIII. In the World Map, after clearing the game, the story of TWTNW also refers to it as the real Organization XIII. I never heard true Organization XIII in the game. Shouldn't it be moved to "Real Organization XIII", even if we can't let the name as "real Organization XIII"? - {{User:MateusinhoEX/SigTemplate}} 13:36, 14 October 2013 (UTC) | | :I agree :) Moreover, "True Organization" is not in the game. [[User:Lady Junky|Lady Junky]] ([[User talk:Lady Junky|talk]]) 11:20, 4 July 2013 (UTC) |
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| == Second Riku == | | == Second Riku == |
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| ::::''Vanitas only appeared because Ventus's heart was reacting within Sora.'' [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 13:12, 10 August 2012 (UTC) | | ::::''Vanitas only appeared because Ventus's heart was reacting within Sora.'' [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 13:12, 10 August 2012 (UTC) |
| :::::It'd be nice if anyone who is going to post on this discussion page would actually read it first - we have this question answered above already at least once. {{User:LightRoxas/Sig}} 17:23, 10 August 2012 (UTC) | | :::::It'd be nice if anyone who is going to post on this discussion page would actually read it first - we have this question answered above already at least once. {{User:LightRoxas/Sig}} 17:23, 10 August 2012 (UTC) |
| ::::::And also Lea wears the black coat although he's not an organization member at all. {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 18:40, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
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| ==Order== | | ==Order== |
| I checked which thrones they where each sitting on and managed to get the all, this needs to be added to the page but I cannot add it in because its locked. | | I checked which thrones they where each sitting on and managed to get the all, this needs to be added to the page but I cannot add it in because its locked. |
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| ::::::Except for 1) This info is quite arbitrary and serves little purpose, and 2) The chair they sit in does not necessarily translate to their exact ranking in the Organization. Frankly, it's too much of a stretch to claim that we know the rankings when all we've done is just count the chairs. Until Nomura confirms anything, we're not putting this on the page. {{User:LightRoxas/Sig}} 20:56, 24 September 2012 (UTC) | | ::::::Except for 1) This info is quite arbitrary and serves little purpose, and 2) The chair they sit in does not necessarily translate to their exact ranking in the Organization. Frankly, it's too much of a stretch to claim that we know the rankings when all we've done is just count the chairs. Until Nomura confirms anything, we're not putting this on the page. {{User:LightRoxas/Sig}} 20:56, 24 September 2012 (UTC) |
| ::Vanitas, that's like the opposite of sense. Us not knowing whether the chairs are permanent does NOT mean we should assume they are. Listen to LR.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 04:24, 25 September 2012 (UTC) | | ::Vanitas, that's like the opposite of sense. Us not knowing whether the chairs are permanent does NOT mean we should assume they are. Listen to LR.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 04:24, 25 September 2012 (UTC) |
| Nomura originally intended to keep the ranking idea for members of the second organization. However, he scrapped the idea mid-production, believing it would have been too confusing for players to see members from the first iteration of the Organization holding a new rank. Thus they have all their meetings in the Keyblade Graveyard, instead of the Round Room. Though, I guess the ranks could still be present given where each member of the Organization stood to Master Xehanort's side when they faced the Seven Guardians of Light. ([[Special:Contributions/96.68.6.221|96.68.6.221]] 22:22, 1 August 2019 (UTC))
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| ==13 seekers and 7 guardians== | | ==13 seekers and 7 guardians== |
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| :While there are definitely likelihoods considering the seven guardians, there really isn't enough confirmed info to merit a page. Once they appear as a more official organization in future installments, we should have enough info to make a page. {{User:LightRoxas/Sig}} 01:38, 8 October 2012 (UTC) | | :While there are definitely likelihoods considering the seven guardians, there really isn't enough confirmed info to merit a page. Once they appear as a more official organization in future installments, we should have enough info to make a page. {{User:LightRoxas/Sig}} 01:38, 8 October 2012 (UTC) |
| ::We know it's not Terra, Xehanort explicitly says that it is not. Mickey lists himself, Riku, Sora, and the three BBS, Xehanort rejects Terra and Sora, but they regain Sora anyway. Yen Sid then says that Lea and Kairi will be training for the Mark of Mastery as well, I'm not sure this is uncertain at all.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 04:09, 8 October 2012 (UTC) | | ::We know it's not Terra, Xehanort explicitly says that it is not. Mickey lists himself, Riku, Sora, and the three BBS, Xehanort rejects Terra and Sora, but they regain Sora anyway. Yen Sid then says that Lea and Kairi will be training for the Mark of Mastery as well, I'm not sure this is uncertain at all.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 04:09, 8 October 2012 (UTC) |
| :::I have to agree with Kryten. Sora, Riku and Mickey are all but confirmed. Kairi and Lea are in training, but will most likely be ready to join the fight in III. The only problematic spots are those of Aqua and Ven, who are stuck in realm of darkness and castle oblivion respectively. Unless someone takes one of the empty spots before Aqua and Ven are rescued, or one of the others are wounded or something like that, this Is pretty much going to be it. {{User:L'cie}} 11:43 26 June 2015
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| == Image == | | == Image == |
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| If somebody could put up this image | | If somebody could put up this image |
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| [[File:Real Organization XIII KHIII.png|left|thumb|200px]] | | [[Image:True Organization XIII.png|left|thumb|200px]] |
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| on the page please, that'd be great, since I can't do it. KrytenKoro did a good job like I did for the Forms of Xehanort image :P [[User:EnglishJoker|EnglishJoker]] ([[User talk:EnglishJoker|talk]]) 14:48, 25 February 2013 (UTC) | | on the page please, that'd be great, since I can't do it. KrytenKoro did a good job like I did for the Forms of Xehanort image :P [[User:EnglishJoker|EnglishJoker]] ([[User talk:EnglishJoker|talk]]) 14:48, 25 February 2013 (UTC) |
| {{-}}
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| == Eyes == | | == Eyes == |
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| All current members have yellowish-goldish-amber eyes. Saix and Xigbar are the only ones from the organization, save for Xemnas, to posses this trait, and the only confirmed now-members of the new organization, again except for Xemnas. When Xigbar says he's half Xehanort,the camera zooms to his amber eye. And he's an eye short, a.k.a. "half". I'm leaving this here for what it's worth, since it could imply that's that of the old XIII (Xehanort vessels had amber eyes, and no other member had amber eyes) and might hint to the others. It's probably a wild guess, but again, "for what it's worth".--[[Special:Contributions/92.118.175.99|92.118.175.99]] 17:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC) | | All current members have yellowish-goldish-amber eyes. Saix and Xigbar are the only ones from the organization, save for Xemnas, to posses this trait, and the only confirmed now-members of the new organization, again except for Xemnas. When Xigbar says he's half Xehanort,the camera zooms to his amber eye. And he's an eye short, a.k.a. "half". I'm leaving this here for what it's worth, since it could imply that's that of the old XIII (Xehanort vessels had amber eyes, and no other member had amber eyes) and might hint to the others. It's probably a wild guess, but again, "for what it's worth".--[[Special:Contributions/92.118.175.99|92.118.175.99]] 17:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC) |
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| == Unknown members == | | == Unnown members == |
| I am a wiki contrabuter and i think that Terra-Xehanort is a member because if you think about it True Organization XIII is made up of 13 Xehanorts and most of them are from the past. | | I am a wiki contrabuter and i think that Terra-Xehanort is a member because if you think about it True Organization XIII is made up of 13 Xehanorts and most of them are from the past. |
| --[[Special:Contributions/94.174.164.212|94.174.164.212]] 18:33, 11 June 2013 (UTC) | | --[[Special:Contributions/94.174.164.212|94.174.164.212]] 18:33, 11 June 2013 (UTC) |
| :While a reasonable prediction, we can't add T-X—or anyone, for that matter—to the list of members until we have confirmation. --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 23:06, 11 June 2013 (UTC) | | :While a reasonable prediction, we can't add T-X—or anyone, for that matter—to the list of members until we have confirmation. --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 23:06, 11 June 2013 (UTC) |
| It wood be very nice to see the other 7 Xehanorts. --[[Special:Contributions/94.174.164.212|94.174.164.212]] 13:46, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
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| :I would just say that, but of course, it isn't still confirmed. But if you pay attention, in Where Nothing Gathers, Mickey tells Xehanort that "for Keyblade Wielders, there are me, Riku, and Sora, and my three missing friends (Terra, Aqua and Ven) [...] and the seventh would be (Lea) [...]" and Xehanort replies "But Sora and ''another on your list'' belongs to me now. That puts you three guardians short." Now, consider that, as Xehanort didn't knew about Lea, he counted him as one, and with Sora and the "other", that makes three. Now, remembering RE:Coded, I think, Yen Sid says that the only one left to find is Terra. This means that the Seven Guardians of Light are Mickey, Sora, Riku, Ven, Aqua (who were already found), Lea and Kairi. There are already Seven Guardians, which means Terra is not one of them, and he is the only one on Mickey's list that can belong to the 13 seekers of darkness, aside Sora, who was rescued. So, we can assume Terra-Xehanort is one of them, but nothing can be really confirmed yet. - {{User:MateusinhoEX/SigTemplate}} 13:53, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
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| ::"Belongs to me" doesn't necessarily mean that he's one of the Organization. It just means he's in Xehanort's power.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 11:57, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
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| :::Sorry, but I doubt when Mickey listing the seven guardian he refer Lea, because he don't know Lea can use the Keyblade, I think Mickey refer another wielder of his past, but we don't see him in any game, maybe MX refer this one is belong to MX, the mine is only a theory, but I don't know who is the seventh of mIckey list (because Kairi is impossibile for the Mickey's reaction in the secret ending and Lea too cannot be because he don't know about he can use the Keyblade)--[[Special:Contributions/93.150.134.217|93.150.134.217]] 20:32, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
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| So Saix and Xigbar are confirmed, is it reasonable to assume Isa and Braig, will be too? Xehanort, Ansem, and Xemnas are all members, so do you think Xehanort found a way to get their Nobody vessels along with their newly revived forms?{{unsigned|161.130.188.55}}
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| Please sign you posts. As for your question, who knows? We don't post speculation in the articles, just so you know. All we can do is wait until new information is released.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 21:44, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
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| == Nobodies or Somebodies ==
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| Since the purpose of the Original Organization XIII was to help create and find suitable People to be transformed into heartless and into nobodies, in order to use the nobodies, and to fill them with fragments of Master Xehanort's heart, while their original hearts which are enveloped in darkness, so that when the hearts remerge with their bodies, the hearts of those people will be taken over by the heart fragments of Master Xehanort, thus turning them in to Xehanort(s) or Xehanort clones. So logically, all the members of the true Organization XIII are no longer nobodies but have become somebodies again, only just not their true selves. This means that all the nobodies (excluding Xemnes as his heartless Ansem and himself have clearly not remerged together) like Braig now Xigbar and Isa now Saix, are true somebodies.{{unsigned|Chronicler V}}
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| :Sign your posts, please.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 19:23, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
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| ::Also, why would you expect them to be complete beings without having to regain their lost hearts? --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 19:34, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
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| Ansem and Xemnas have remerged, that's why Master Xehanort is back. The ones in KH3D are actually time-displaced. Which begs the question of whether Xigbar and Sa�x will be part of the new Organization as time-displaced Nobodies along with their original selves. I think they did get their lost hearts, and then gave them up like Braig in Birth by Sleep. {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 20:41, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
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| This again? lol. That said, there is a line from the Ultimania (p. 429, bottom right) one should take into account:
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| '''''Xigbar and Saïx appeared as members of Organization XIII. Did they return as humans like Lea and the others?'''''
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| ''The conditions of becoming a human have been met, so you’d think they had returned, wouldn’t you? For them to have been with Xehanort and the others, perhaps they were collected after they had become humans and before Lea and the others woke up. You could say the same for the members of Organization XIII that didn’t appear in this title, however… I’d rather everyone use their imaginations.''
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| The implication is that the Xigbar and Saix we see in this game ''are'' their recompleted selves, but the last line still leaves it up to interpretation for now (probably Nomura being deliberately ambiguous in case he wants to change something). [[User:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#002395 ;">Ultima Spark</span>]] ''[[User talk:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#007FFF ;">(talk)</span>]]'' [[File:Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png|17px]] 00:22, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
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| ::By the very clear explanation of how both Organizations worked, they have the same components they did as the last time they were called Nobodies. This isn't that confusing.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 04:32, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
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| :::...what are you trying to say, exactly? The Ultimania hints at the possibility that those two ''at least'' have returned as complete beings ("'''For them to have been with Xehanort and the others, perhaps they were collected after they had become humans'''..."). It's not a confirmation, but I feel it warrants a mention somewhere. [[User:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#002395 ;">Ultima Spark</span>]] ''[[User talk:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#007FFF ;">(talk)</span>]]'' [[File:Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png|17px]] 07:24, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
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| == About Renaming This Article ==
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| Sorry to keep beating a dead horse, but I was wondering why it was never decided (or if it was) what we would call this article? In a previous discussion, someone said we should rename it "Real Organization XIII" because that's the title used in the game. I, for one, am in full agreement. Thoughts? - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 02:19, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
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| I'm good with changing it.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 03:32, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
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| Well, a lot of time has passed now, so I think a final call is in order: Should the page be renamed?--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 18:47, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
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| :I'm starting to think nobody is even noticing this topic here, which could be why no one is putting in any input. Anyways if you want my opinion, I think it should remain as it is, cause, really what does it matter. True, Real, It's all the same. And in my opinion, 'True' just sounds better to me. Unfortunately, most people can't remove rename request themselves because the article is locked to prevent edit wars for fan speculation. Personally, I'm surprised the admins haven't removed the request already. [[User:Blackchaos27|Blackchaos27]] ([[User talk:Blackchaos27|talk]]) 00:00, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
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| ::"Real" is the name used in the NA localization, with "True XIII Order" as the literal translation.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:36, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
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| :::And the wiki does use all NA localization for its article. Before, I had the similar mindset as Blackchoas27, but we gotta stick the NA localization like we with everything else. So, it's decided? We change the article? No objections?--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 03:48, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
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| :None here, it's more official anyway. {{User:Chainoffire/sig}} 03:56, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
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| ::It sounds weirder, but that's not a real reason not to. --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 04:28, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
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| :::You guys have a fair point, so no objections here. [[User:Blackchaos27|Blackchaos27]] ([[User talk:Blackchaos27|talk]]) 14:49, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::Agreed with Neumz-senpai about it sounding weird, but that shouldn't be reason why we shouldn't change it. All right, then. Let's rename it. :)--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 20:34, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
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| == Time-displaced Xigbar, Saix ==
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| — Did King Mickey’s time magic not work properly on Young Xehanort because Young Xehanort has the power to control time?
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| Nomura: Not Young Xehanort’s but rather Master Xehanort’s power. King Mickey was surprised at the time, seeing his Keyblade and noticing he harboured the power of Master Xehanort. That Keyblade was designed as the one Master Xehanort used in KHBBS combined with an hourglass, you see.
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| — Were the 13 Seekers of Darkness, who were meant to be in different times, gathered by transcending time with magic?
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| Nomura: Just as it says in the story, to transcend time one must ‘first’ discard their form. As a result of the actions of the Brown Robed Figure, they all were in a state where they had gained the power to transcend time. The Brown Robed Figure explains the facts. The thirteen were summoned at the same time, this time thanks to Young Xehanort who borrowed that power. '''However, apart from Young Xehanort, that does not mean that all the members transcended time.'''
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| Read more: http://kh13.com/forum/topic/34430-spoilers-kingdom-hearts-3d-ultimania-nomura-interviews-completely-translated/#ixzz4XGlXmBPJ{{unsigned|KrytenKoro}}
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| :Hold up. The game pretty strongly gave the impression that Xigbar and Saix were their revived selves, as they were Nobodyfied in Ansem's computer room but were nowhere to be found afterwards. As to why they're using their Nobody names, I guess it's an Organization thing? --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 23:08, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
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| ::Right, Young Xehanort took them and turned them back into Nobodies. The whole point was making them vessels for Xehanort's heart, just like they were in the first Organization.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:15, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
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| :::Recent Famitsu confirms that the returning Organization members are not time travelling. They've been resurrected and the turned into Nobodies and norted. The only known time travellers are Xemnas, Ansem SoD, and Young Xehanort [[User:Konu|Konu]] ([[User talk:Konu|talk]]) 23:48, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
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| ::::To say the truth, a bit after the release of DDD, Nomura confirmed that Ansem and Xemnas are not time traveler, he confirmed this in both an interview and an official "Xehanort timeline", this is quite strange I know, I too was surprised but this is confirmed.--[[Special:Contributions/186.237.35.234|186.237.35.234]] 10:07, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
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| :::::I'm not seeing that in the Xehanort Experience Record -- the closest I'm seeing is that it doesn't explicitly say they were brought from the past. Plus, the core plot is that their destruction has revived Master Xehanort, so it wouldn't make much sense if YX had rebroken MX like he did with Braig, Isa, Laurium, Larxene's person, and Luxord's.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 12:33, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
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| ==Terra confirmed==
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| Nomura confirmed Terra is a member of the Org. XIII.<br>
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| https://www.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-3/frequently-asked-questions
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| According to Mickey Mouse, the Guardians of Light are himself, Riku, Sora, Aqua, and Ventus. Mickey assumed Terra was a light, '''however Master Xehanort revealed that Terra is one of the Thirteen Darknesses'''. The sixth and seventh members are currently unknown.{{unsigned|93.150.193.86}}
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| :KHInsider's FAQ isn't an official source. If you could link us to the actual interview (or even a translation of said interview) where Tetsuya Nomura makes this distinction, then we would be able to change it. From the looks of this, though, this page is only KHInsider's interpretation of events as revealed so far. {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 16:12, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
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| ==It's Riku Replica, not Dark Riku==
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| On this cutscene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMrjxT0pKUk Riku talks with another Riku that was inside his mind or heart (it is unclear which one is it, as he is the only one who can see him, Sora and Kairi can't), this Riku using the darkness suit says "I didn't make much of myself as a replica." Then at the Keyblade Graveyard, this cutscene plays when beating "Dark Riku" https://youtu.be/EQ2VVQaPAxk?t=376 where he says "You're not real" which confuses Riku and asks him if he is NOT himself from the time Ansem took his body, and then Riku Replica shows up confirming that it is, in fact, himself, Riku Replica. The image of Dark Riku with the Keyblade of Heart might of been shown as a red herring in order to not spoil the plot twist. Besides, it is not the first Riku that it is implied to be, in San Fransokyo it was believed to be Data-Riku, for the use of the Bug Blox or Darkubes, as Fred called them.
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| == List ==
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| Discussion has been moved to [[Forum:Real Organization XIII Speculation|this forum]]. {{User:Chitalian8/Sig}} 03:50, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
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| == Dark Riku or Riku Replica? ==
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| When we list Riku in some variation as a member, are we sure it's Dark Riku's heart in a replica body? My interpretation was that it was just straight up a new Riku Replica with part of Xehanort's heart inside. It seemed like they were saying that the whole "Time traveling Dark Riku" thing was a ruse as I think they even mention that when Riku was previously possessed by Ansem, he looked like Ansem, and that form of him is already part of the Organization.
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| Maybe I'm wrong, haven't watched the scene in a while. Anyone able to check? {{User:LightRoxas/Sig}} 19:21, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
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| ::See Dark Riku's talk page. We're waiting for the Ultimania to give us a concrete answer, since the game makes things ''really'' confusing. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 23:40, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
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| :::When's the ultimania's release date? --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 20:46, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
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| ::::28th of Febuary I believe - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] ([[User talk:JTD95|talk]]) 20:48, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
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| :From what I got of it, it's an entirely new replica. So Dark Riku. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 23:48, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
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| == Main Image ==
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| When Xion is acting as part of this Organization she has her hooded "puppet" look, so a render of that would be better for the group image. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 23:00, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
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| Agreed; it makes more sense.([[Special:Contributions/96.68.6.221|96.68.6.221]] 22:36, 13 March 2019 (UTC))
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| == Time period Ansem was recruited from ==
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| First thought would suggest the brief period at the end of KH1, when Ansem is in Riku's body, but when Ansem says "What a journey you and I have had" to Riku, doesn't it imply that it's from much later in the story? After the Kingdom Hearts Encoder explodes, but before Xemnas is defeated, perhaps? If both Ansem and Xemnas were recruited during that interlude when Kingdom Hearts is raining hearts, it would make sense for them to have such familiar discourse with Sora and Riku during 3D and KH3. Anybody? - [[User:Joveus|Joveus]] ([[User talk:Joveus|talk]]) 16:44, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
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| :I don't think we can assume much that isn't stated along those veins. The Twilight Town gang and Rinzler both make it clear that memories can be "reacquired" through the chain of memories.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:05, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
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| == Time members were collected from ==
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| Since it's ambiguous as to when many members where collected from, I think the references to recruitment should all just go under a "Before ''Kingdom Hearts coded''" section. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 17:00, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
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| :We don't do "before" though if we have both boundaries. We do "Between".
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| :Regarding TX, it doesn't really seem like he had that for more than a few moments, and he was still confused. Seeing as Terra-Xehanort knows he's a Xehanort in KH3, I think it would only make sense for him to be from before giving himself amnesia. We also don't really have any reason to believe that Young Xehanort hopped again -- the Xehanort Experience Record has him showing up in Land of Departure right before the final battle, so it would make sense that he yoinks Vanitas's heart right before his destruction (or right when it happens), and Terra-Xehanort's soon after.
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| :"Arriving in the period of his older self's first attempt to reignite the Keyblade War" -- why are you removing that?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:08, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
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| That's all speculation though. A few moments is fine for all we know, why would he show up at LoD to collect Vanitas when Vanitas wasn't even there etc. Where we don't know fact we should be ambiguous e.g. "during his time travels Young Xehanort collects Vanitas, Terra-Xehanort, Ansem, and Xemnas from unknown points in their history". --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 17:42, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
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| ::Your question about LoD doesn't make sense to me. The point is that he was present at that period of time. He's not bound to a world.
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| ::It's not ''really'' speculation. We're told that it's their hearts "from the past", and there are known periods of time when they even existed. Vanitas has to be from the period of time when he looked like evil Sora, and wasn't yet destroyed, so basically from the start of KHBbS to when he merges with Ventus. Terra-Xehanort has to exist, have the No Name, and not have amnesia, so -- from the battle at KG to the battle at RG. Ansem has to exist and look like he does, so from the battle at RG to the battle at EotW. Xemnas is really the only one with any real mystery to when he was taken -- he existed in his current form anywhere from a year after BbS, during KH1, thru Days, and into KH2 -- as the article already acknowledges. You could ''speculate'' that YX picked up Xemnas at RG when he picked up Ansem, for parsimony's sake, but that's unsupportable.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:34, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
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| Nothing says they have to look like that, they could have just fashioned the replicas to appear that way; Replica appearance can easily change, as shown by Xion. Vanitas could have been from the moment he was born (pre-BBS) or from the moment Ventus connected with Sora (pre-BBS) if he has to look like Sora. Terra-Xehanort could still feasibly be from post-BBS even ignoring the scene of his declaration of being "Ansem": remember Terra-Xehanort appears in 0.2, which is way after BBS, and knows who he is in that game - he could have been picked up from then. Since it's "Ansem's heart" that was collected - which still exists in CoM via Riku - he could have been obtained from CoM. Multiple possibilities means anything put on the article claiming to be certain is speculation, so it should be ambiguous. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 20:43, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
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| :"Vanitas could have been from the moment he was born (pre-BBS)" -- BbS covers all of the scenes in BbS, ''including'' the scene where Xehanort brings Ventus to Destiny Islands, and his heart connects with Sora's -- the moment that Vanitas changed from being a black shadowy creature to having Sora's face.
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| :"they could have just fashioned the replicas to appear that way" -- both CoM, Days, and KH3 all tell us that Replicas don't work like that. They are shaped by memories. Before hearts are implanted, they look like the empty Replica that Sora retrieved from Dark Riku, a featureless husk. Xion's appearance changed ''because'' she was being filled by a heart, not at a whim.
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| :"which is way after BBS" -- not exactly. The course of the game lasts ten years, but it doesn't start off years after KHBbS. That was also a subconscious communication between their hearts, not the active Terra-Xehanort in the real world. I'll admit that I'm not 100% about that, though. The XER doesn't clear it up.
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| :"which still exists in CoM via Riku" -- that's a different Ansem. As I read the XER, it looks like it's saying that the Ansem collected was before the Heartless was defeated, which would match with what the reports say about why it needed a Replica in the first place.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:50, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
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| All pages refer to the BBS flashbacks as "Before BBS" (see [[Ventus]] for example). In KHIII, the Replica body of Xion changes due to being overflown with her present counterpart's memories, this could theoretically have occurred with the likes of Vanitas - whose heart was repaired by the Unversed in the present and through encountering his counterparts. The XER connects CoM Ansem to DDD Ansem, so if anything it implies he is Ansem from CoM, there's no implication he's KH Ansem. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 11:57, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
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| ::Hmm. They shouldn't. That scene isn't presented as a flashback.
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| ::Vanitas has Sora's appearance specifically because his heart was connected to Sora's through Ventus. Him absorbing negativity from the Unversed wouldn't do that.
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| ::So, we've got two things. The XER seems to say that the KH3D Ansem boss fight (implied to be within Riku's heart, and thus the "lurking" Ansem) and the Ansem who shows up as a member of the RO13 are the same Ansem. And yet SR8 in KH3 specifically says "The old man's humanity prevents his Heartless and Nobody, others vanquished in the past, and his younger self from being denizens of this time." If RO13 Ansem was just the Ansem in Riku's heart, there'd be no conflict and this line wouldn't make any sense. (On a side note, it's not explicitly stated, but the "darkness lurking in Riku's heart" is essentially the same issue as the RO13 members having a fragment of Xehanort's heart. SR8 only makes sense if the RO13 Ansem is the Ansem from before the KH1 finale.) So, yeah, I can agree things aren't clear with that guy. Which is a mess, it made a bit more sense beforehand, and I find it kind of hard to believe that Young Xehanort could just approach Riku and get Ansem's heart out of him without Riku noticing.
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| ::Still, Vanitas and Terra-Xehanort I can only see as coming from one time.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 12:47, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
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| Well that's how I've always seen this wiki structured, so that's why I'm applying it here. Don't you think he doesn't necessarily need to be near them (e.g. "collect Vanitas from LoD") so he wouldn't even need to approach Riku right? The journal in III also notes that Terra-Xehanort has Master Xehanort's heart (plus he does not know who Lingering Will is), so he could even feasibly have Master Xehanort's heart from any point in time. Would be good if we could get input from others on this discussion... --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 15:43, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
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| ::I don't understand why you're saying he would collect Vanitas from LoD.
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| ::"The journal in III also notes that Terra-Xehanort has Master Xehanort's heart" -- Not sure where you're getting that, but the Ultimania explicitly says that he contains TX's heart from the past, implanted in Terra's body.
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| ::"plus he does not know who Lingering Will is" -- honestly, I wasn't able to parse that as "what is your identity", I parsed it as "what kind of person are you". It's simply absurd if Nomura meant that to show that TX doesn't recognize LW -- they're wearing the same damn clothes, for starters, not to mention that Terra's heart would recognize it, he immediately understood who it was upon being born, even Xemnas recognized Aqua's armor, and KH3D showed that YX informed the other Xehanorts about what they missed.
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| ::Plus, LW has literally been ''sitting there'' a few yards away from all the action for a decade, how the hell are you trying to tell me none of the Xehanorts ever noticed or detected him.
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| ::To be fair, that scene is already a legendary mess, what with claiming that TX is the thirteenth when Nomura is already on record saying that TX was one of the twelve that showed up when they were inducting Sora.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:54, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
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| == Minor error on the page ==
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| The Members section is part of the story section. Can someone please change this so "Members" is its own section of the page? Thank You. ([[Special:Contributions/96.68.6.221|96.68.6.221]] 22:23, 1 August 2019 (UTC))
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| == Technically... ==
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| Why is the Organization called thirteen different Xehanorts? There's only five different versions of Xehanort in the Organization. The other eight are only vessels for his heart, who still have their original personalities. Did Nomura change his mind about the whole "clone" thing mid-production? ([[Special:Contributions/96.68.6.221|96.68.6.221]] 22:25, 1 August 2019 (UTC))
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| == Re: Mind ==
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| How long to wait before adding the information from Re: Mind. This bit clears up the whole "who was at the meeting" thing and the data battles reveal who had a new rank in the Real Organization. ([[Special:Contributions/174.192.74.132|174.192.74.132]] 06:10, 23 January 2020 (UTC))
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| :Yhea, Nomura said they scrapped the idea of use ranks in the real Org., but Nomura also said they scrapped the idea of a Xehanort game, AND LOOK, we have Dark Road now, and ReMind literally give us ranks. Is pretty obvious they changed idea about the ranks, or why give it in ReMind?[[Special:Contributions/93.41.38.64|93.41.38.64]] 00:17, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
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| ::I think a discussion might need to take place to decide if the information stays or goes since there is a clear amount of time difference between that interview and this games' release. In my opinion I think this information should be mentioned, and if not on the main part of the article, then it should be a small simple trivia piece instead. -[[User:Adv193|Adv193]] ([[User talk:Adv193|talk]]) 00:28, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
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| :::ReMind never mentions the ranks so how are they revealed? - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] ([[User talk:JTD95|talk]]) 00:35, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
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| ::::They don't, people are just taking the rank based on the order presents on each member's portal in the Data battle. {{User:UnknownChaser/Sig}} 02:03, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
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| :::::Is not just a order, in each portal there is a specific number, Master Xehanort, Ansem and Xemnas corrispond to the numers mentioned by Nomura in the interview before the idea was scrapped. Xion is the XIII, and she was indeed the last member, Master Xehanort, Ansem, Xemnas, Xigbar, Saix and Young Xehanort have their position that corrispond to their seet position in the thrones room in the end of Dream Drop Distance, or at least, I remember Yound Xehanort be in Larxene seet and Xigbar in Vexen seet in DDD, for Saix, I'm not absolutly sure. But... if really they didn't wanted to give them ranks, why put numbers in the portals?--[[Special:Contributions/93.41.38.64|93.41.38.64]] 08:11, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
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| ::::::Hmmm... hadn’t notice that the portals are numbered. Also just noticed that they follow that order in data greeting as well. - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] ([[User talk:JTD95|talk]]) 08:26, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
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| :::::::I hadn't noticed the numbers on the portals either. But still that doesn't mean anything. Especially since we have an interview with Nomura explicitly stating they don't have ranks. Yes, he could have changes his mind, but we really need more concrete evidence, like an interview or maybe that new Character Files book, before we can come to that conclusion. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:52, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
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| ::::::::If they didn't change mind, why add the numbers? We literally have the game that show us the ranks, what confirmation you need more? Is like you need Nomura say "hey, Sora's eyes are blue" when you can literally see it. In-game the ranks are literally showed, we can see it, if they add that numbers, that reflect both Nomura initial idea of ranks and the Dream Drop Distance's seets of the Organization, is pretty obvius they changed mind. Nomura will NEVER confirm something that is literally showed in the game. Again, is like waiting Nomura saying Sora's eyes are blue when you can see it.--[[Special:Contributions/93.41.38.64|93.41.38.64]] 18:36, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
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| :::::::::The Dream Drop Distance's seats doesn't align with the numbers shown on the portals. Ansem sits in Xaldin's seat and Saïx sits in his original seat but should be sitting in Axel's old one as Saïx is now number VIII (according to the portals) and not VII. Point is: the argument that the seats from KH3D prove their ranks isn't correct. - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] ([[User talk:JTD95|talk]]) 21:43, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
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| :::::::::::[https://twitter.com/tuskactone/status/1230496918515511296?s=20] The new Character Files book lists the members of the old and new Organization side by side. The old organization are listed with their ranks, the new Organization isn't. It's also not in the order of the portals. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 19:51, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
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| :::::::::::Even if they don't count as ranks, shouldn't the portal numbers have a column on the table anyway, even just as a footnote? --[[User:Wikipirate|Wikipirate]] ([[User talk:Wikipirate|talk]]) 02:03, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
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| == Melody of Memory ==
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| So Kairi refers to the real Organization XIII as the True Organization XIII (with a captial T) in one of the game's cutscenes. Should this be included to the page somehow? - {{User:JTD95/Signature}} 12:12, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
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| :I finally got around with watching the cutscenes for MoM today, and man, I hate how the subtitles team are so in consistent with terminology (like how the the "T" in The Final World is now lowercased instead of capitalized like it was in KHIII). I suppose we should, considering that's what was also used.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 03:24, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
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| ::I think it should stay as "Real", since that's the term used (repeatedly) in the games where they actually have plot relevance and impact. A one-off mention-only translation change doesn't warrant a move imo. ''[[User:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#002395 ;">Ultima Spark</span>]]'' '''[[User talk:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#007FFF ;">(talk)</span>]]''' [[File:Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png|17px]] 11:36, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
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| :::I definitely agree with keeping it as "Real", though the "True Organization XIII" should just be mentioned in the intro paragraph.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 04:16, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
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