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| |[[Dusk]]'s pierce attack<!--what is name of attack, check ultimania or bradygames-->; [[Twilight Thorn]]'s Nobody thorns<!--check ultimania or bradygames-->; [[Xemnas]]'s Nobody thorns<!--check ultimania or bradygames--> | | |[[Dusk]]'s pierce attack<!--what is name of attack, check ultimania or bradygames-->; [[Twilight Thorn]]'s Nobody thorns<!--check ultimania or bradygames-->; [[Xemnas]]'s Nobody thorns<!--check ultimania or bradygames--> |
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| ==Leon in Hollow Bastion==
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| During the Nobody Castle gate battle, Leon can take enough damage and be knocked out. If he is, a reaction command pops up called Recovery Run which revives him. I guess this should be added to the list, although I'm unsure as to what category it belongs in.
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| [[Special:Contributions/90.193.61.241|90.193.61.241]] 23:05, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
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| == Roxas ==
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| Is there a reason Roxas is not listed under the Organization bosses? He has one Reaction Command, Reversal, in which Sora dashes behind Roxas to avoid taking damage from a Keyblade strike. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 21:43, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
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| ::I would like to bring this issue up again, please... - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 14:24, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
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| :::Why don't you just add it? {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 14:26, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::Because I was not sure whether or not there was a specific reason. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 16:21, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
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| ==Name Change==
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| How do we wish to handle the name change experienced by Burst Edge in ''Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 ReMIX''? It is now known as "Burst Frontier." - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 14:25, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
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| :That depends on the outcome of [[Forum:The Names of Articles]], I think (It's not really an article, but it's still a name that changed in the series). The other name could be mentioned in either a ref or note. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 14:28, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
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| ::The forum has no water here. That is solely to do with the names of the article titles. However, this page really needs reworking. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 15:00, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
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| :::I rewrote pretty much the entire article while you were commenting on my messages here. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 16:21, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::That is certainly an improvement, but what needs to be done is the lists need to be made into tables and each reaction command should get their own article (discussion point). {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 16:38, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
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| :::::Oh, I definitely agree. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 21:13, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
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| == Some more ==
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| *Reversal: Used against No.13, same as against Dusk.
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| *Quick Slide: Used against No.13, instantly confuses No.13.
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| *Impact: Weak form of Ragnarok finisher.
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| *Giga Impact: Strong form of Ragnarok finisher.
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| There are many more, these are off the top of my head.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:58, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
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| :*[[Forum:Notes 01, (KHII, Reaction Commands) - Neumannz]] (out of date)
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| :*[[User:Neumannz/Notes/Command notes#Reaction commands|User:Neumannz/Notes/Command notes#Reaction]]
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| :--{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 20:16, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
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| ::Well, it's at least missing Quick Slide, and Reversal against Roxas does something different than against normal Nobodies.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:49, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
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| Quick Slide is ハイスライド in Japanese. What is Reversal against Roxas again? --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 21:17, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
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| :スライドターン Slide Turn. Same name as it is with the Dusks. [[User:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#002395 ;">Ultima Spark</span>]] ''[[User talk:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#007FFF ;">(talk)</span>]]'' [[File:Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png|17px]] 23:49, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
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| ==Avenger commands==
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| From BBS, what exactly are the Avenger commands? The only one I encountered so far is Avenger Rush, which Ventus can use with party members/escorts. I haven't checked to see if Terra and Aqua can use it. I presume that Avenger Save is for reviving fallen players in multiplayer Mirage Arena (so it's cut from KH2HD). Does it match up with [http://www.khwiki.com/File:Joint_Struggle_01.png this image]? {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 18:54, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
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| :That, in the picture, is "Heal Light". Avenger commands are for those escort missions. I can't remember who used which though. {{User:Pea14733/Sig}} 20:53, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
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| ::They can't just be for escort missions though, since Ventus used Avenger Rush with Mickey against Vanitas. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 21:46, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
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| :::Ventus uses Avenger Rush, Aqua uses Avenger Save. I do not believe Terra has a proper "Avenger" command, but he ends the Cinderella escort mission with Last Dance. (Snow White escort mission also has White Calm.) --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 22:07, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::Since Ventus can use Avenger Rush with Mickey, he might be able to use it with Hercules, Zack, Stitch etc. Same goes for Aqua. We should check whether you can use any Avenger attacks in the very first battle, where the trio are each other's party members. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 22:26, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
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| I don't know about that, but I have seen Aqua use Avenger Save during the Jaq escort and with Prince Phillip. Those are the only times I have personally seen it used. --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 22:41, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
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| == Katakana ==
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| Didn't this page previously have the katakana for each RC? If so, why was it removed in the first place? Instating that table idea a few sections above me seems like a pretty good idea. EDIT: Bump. {{User:Chitalian8/Sig}} 03:56, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
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| :Yes, let's just make this page a god-friggin table already. [http://finalsquare.gnk.cc/kouryaku/square-enix/kh2/reaction_01.htm Something akin to this]. --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 22:34, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
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| ==Layout==
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| I think a better layout would be to divide the page into "Out-of-battle" and "In-battle" sections (or "Field"/"Battle") with each one having a subsection for each game. Firstly, there's a functional difference where in some games, you can't use out-of-battle reaction commands when you're in-battle. Secondly, this format allows a "Recurring reaction commands" sub-section under the "Out-of-battle", so we don't have to keep repeating "Talk", "Open" and "Save" in each game. And thirdly, the "enemy-specific" and "event-specific" sections in the current layout are really only appropriate for KH2, since all the other games have very few or no enemy reaction commands. If we want to, we can make that distinction for KH2 but I don't think the other games should be divided into those sections.
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| On an entirely separate topic, is the plan to eventually create an article for each reaction command? Currently, the policy is to create an article for every single technique, but I'm unsure whether that should apply to these too. While it would work great for the most part, it's reaction commands like "Attack" from the Hydra battle that put me off the idea, since it'd need tons of redirects, disambigs and youmays. Additionally, I think none of the field reaction commands are worth creating individual pages for; they're not techniques anyway.
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| So thoughts? They're much needed. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 16:54, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
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| ::I wouldn't say the Reaction Commands need articles, no. As for how to format the page, what you suggested sounds good to me. I don't want to sound ambitious, but I'd personally like to organize things into a table (examples are above on this talk page), and possibly get a .gif to show each Reaction Command in action (boss ones and such, not necessarily the ones that trigger Limits or things in the field). - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 17:00, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
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| :::I realise now that even if we do not make pages, we'll still have to create redirects and anchor links so we'll still have the problem of many disambigs/youmays anyway. Also, I don't think it's a good idea to squash a load of gifs onto a table for aesthetic reasons and because Reaction Commands are a long list, which will slow down many computers. Now, I believe we should create a page per command. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 17:09, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
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| :reaction commands are definitively linked to a specific enemy, object, or event, so we can cover them on those pages.
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| :we can definitely remove the listings we don't use, but I think we should focus on converting the page to table form, which we all agree on, first. Then we can make an informed decision on how best to sort those.[[Special:Contributions/66.87.78.185|66.87.78.185]] 17:30, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
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| ::I think dividing the page between "Field" and "Battle" is fine. As for creating pages, like the IP said, most Reaction Commands can be linked to the fight/event they appear in. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:39, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
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| So yeah, Field and Battle would be the two super-sections, with Battle then subdivided into enemy type (Heartless/Nobody/Other). To put it frankly, I think we only need gifs for the cool-looking, cinematic Reaction Commands, that perhaps aren't so easily described in text. {{User:Chitalian8/Sig}} 18:17, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
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| :A few things:
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| #Like I said earlier, I think it would be most efficient to actually get the page setup so we can tell what kind of bloat we're actually trying to corral. That being said:
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| #I think this definitely needs to be separated by game, as the mechanics are fundamentally different between game, to the point of using different buttons and sensitivities, even if a scant few reappear (Ars Arcanum, Talk, etc.). Furthermore,
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| #I don't really see the point in separating by "enemy-type". The enemy-type doesn't materially differentiate the reaction commands. What does differentiate them:
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| #The thing that makes them ''reactions'' -- i.e., their context. We fundamentally have three different types of reactions: recurring reactions to a certain enemy's attack (listed in the journal), one-time reactions used in a specific event or boss battle (either to attack the boss or heal your allies), and generic field reactions (and for the purposes of the non-KHII games, the event- and enemy- commands are basically synonymous, like you guys have been saying). It might be a good idea to have two pre-list sections covering "Talk" and "Open", given the ubiquity of those two (and I'm guessing these are the only two that are going to really count as multi-game bloat), but I think otherwise separating KHII commands from other KHII commands is probably a mistake.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:52, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
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| ::I've been going through KHII again, so I"m noticing that sometimes, an RC that triggers a cutscene has something different like "Approach" or "Comfort" or something else contextual in the story. Are we planning to go that deep into it and document each different one, or are we just gonna have one blanket "Talk" section? {{User:Chitalian8/Sig}} 22:16, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::I would expand the list of ubiquitous ones to Talk, Open, Examine, and maybe Save. I'd also say Approach is separate from Talk. --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 22:20, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
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| If the event- and enemy- commands are synonymous for every non-KHII game, each game section (excluding KHII) boils down into "Field" and "Battle" sub-sections. Why repeat "Field" and "Battle" for each game so many times throughout the list when we could just as easily make them the two main sections with each game sub-section only having to be repeated twice. It's neater, cleaner, and more structured. For KHII, we can still divide its battle section into enemy- and event- sections, but there's no reason to change the structure of an entire list because of just one anomaly in the pattern. Also, there is no reason to make the list by-game, just because of a few varying mechanics across them. We can easily describe the different buttons for each game in the lead and I'm not sure what Kryten means about the different sensitivities; the recurring commands like Talk, Open etc. have the same triggers in each game.
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| I think we should go as in-depth as possible, so Approach and Comfort separate from Talk. If we're merging reaction commands with their enemy/event pages, what do we do about cases like "Phil One-Two" which could be attributed to Phil but also equally to the Hydra. Also, what about cases like "Stomp Bomb" in Timeless River which is tied to a prop? I'm aware that I'm nitpicking here, but I might as well throw it out now. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 13:02, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
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| :Well, contextual RCs like Stomp Bomb would go under field, considering they can be performed outside of battle with no story context. Since the Phil one is exclusive to the Hydra fight, that would also most likely be under the Hydra's section. {{User:Chitalian8/Sig}} 13:09, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
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| :::Fundamentally different mechanics, the same reason we do "Abilities (KH)", etc., instead of "Action commands (KH)", etc. There's also shared themes throughout the "field" and "battle" for each game (KH3D being dream eater commands, etc.), so that's easier to see linking by game. Can you see any strong links between the individual field commands for KH and KH3D, beyond "Talk" and "Open"?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:46, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
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| ==What to do now?==
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| Right, I managed to get together most enemy-specific R.Cs in KHII but I'm struggling with event-specific Rcs. Also, I'm sure DDD doesn't have Rcs so should we delete that section of the page? [[User:TheKeyOfDestiny|TheKeyOfDestiny]] ([[User talk:TheKeyOfDestiny|talk]]) 23:28, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
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| :It's stuff like protecting the door/reviving Leon in the Hollow Bastion event, and DDD should at least have save, open, etc.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 03:19, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
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| ==Individual pages==
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| Is the plan to have every reaction command with its own page? [[Drag 'n' Drop]] has its own page and I think all combat RCs would benefit. Articles on each field command could be superfluous. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 21:12, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
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| :Everything that's a battle/event command, sure. If it's not going to have a list of fifteen hundred "usable when" tidbits, yeah.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 03:52, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
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| == Event-Specific Reaction Commands? ==
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| From the talks here, it seems the Event-specific section was meant for things like bosses and other events in KH2. As it stands now, it's being used for RCs used in minigames, while the KH2 section lumps bosses together with field Heartless/Nobodies in the Enemy-specific section. Should we do something about this? [[User:Pennsylvania Jones|Pennsylvania Jones]] ([[User talk:Pennsylvania Jones|talk]]) 18:43, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
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| :I’m not quite sure what the point of event-specific commands are? Boss commands may as well be part of battle commands. Mini game commands are generally okay to be separate, but does cause some redundancy as there are mini game RCs that have the same names of battle RCs and are usually different iterations of the same technique rather than two separate techniques. That said, if we are to have a mini game section, why not call it that over the awfully vague “event-specific”?
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| :On a separate point, KH3 will likely have its own swathe of RCs so we should get this page sorted out beforehand. Which RCs need their own pages? All of them, including the general ones? Battle commands only? Mini games? We need to discuss this and make the pages quickly. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 15:04, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
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| ::Event-specific commands are commands that are only usable in specific events, for example while defending the Hollow Bastion door. The props lose that functionality outside of the vent, so it's worth differentiating.
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| ::Enemy and boss commands can be combined, sure. I wouldn't combine them with battle commands, though, because they're pretty different in context -- enemy commands are available in specific battles in reaction to actions made by the enemy, while battle commands are available at any time of the player's choosing, in response to actions made by the player. KH2 list appears to be missing the Limit-specific commands, although those are already covered under Limits and should be fine.
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| ::Definitely enemy and battle commands should have redirects, probably Event as well. I don't think general commands are needed, they're pretty self-explanatory and lack any real mechanics -- they're just an "interact" button, basically.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:33, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
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