Editing Talk:Player (KHχ)

Shouldn't this be at Protagonist (KHχ)?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:55, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
:I haven't played KHX but from using my little knowledge of the game, I think 'Player' suits fine since the game labels you as such (like [http://kh13.com/zenphoto/albums/screenshots/famitsu-com/july-8-2013/l_51d582b46f492.jpg that]). {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 21:02, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

==Player vs. Avatar==
As pointed out above the game uses both names, Player is used directly in the game most prominently above the HP bar while Avatar is only used in the clothing menu and by Square Enix in their update/event/e.t.c notes. I'm not sure if they are really synonymous in SE's eyes since Player seems to be just a placeholder for the character's name while Avatar is the more technical term. Either way this page is about both so that shouldn't be a problem. {{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 18:05, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

== Name ==

Does this need to be at (KHx)? There's no "Player" article.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:54, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Point. There's need for the (KHx) since there's no other "Player" article. It makes sense to move it. I'm for it. Objections, anyone?--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 23:04, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
:I agree, although we could possibly create a Player page for the KHMobile player (not that there'd be much info on it). {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:52, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
::I guess if that one's also called player, than we should keep the parser, and create a page for it.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:35, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
{{OpenTalk}}
:::I'm fine with it either way. I added the parser in the first place because "Player" is such a strange page to have here, but he/she is really addressed this way in KHX at least two times by Chirithy and the Foreteller. Personally I don't know anything about the Player in Mobile as a character. Isn't it exactly the same as in Re:coded's Avatar Menu, meaning just a guy/girl you can customize?--{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} [[User:ShardofTruth|ShardofTruth]] ([[User talk:ShardofTruth|talk]]) 20:42, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

== New Format ==

This page needs an overhaul not only due to Unchained seemingly numbering the costumes differently but also because they were split into accessories a long time ago. I still collected all data [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Id-VT4iVje6mL0N0JItDC3hcG5U_wc83mlBSxCjS45U/edit?usp=sharing here], so almost all information is there, it just has to be added. I still need good ideas how this should be done because we're facing some problems here:
#The table gets really, really long. There are currently 242 costumes in the game, that's 121 rows if we keep the female and male ones in the same (which might be a good idea). We only have like half on them on the page and it looks odd already.
#Every costume was divided into different accessories but not every clothing items uses the same "slots". Currently there are ten potential slots: Head 1, Face 1, Face 2, Head 2 (only used by one costume I think), Chest 2, Chest 1, Hip, Back, Hand and Foot (this is currently unused and probably will never be). Every costumes has like three to five of those items. Gameplay-wise five is the maximum number of accessories you can wear and you can't use accessories together that use the same slot. Now every accessory has a name and an image that has to be grouped with its "source" clothing item, but I'm really not sure how we should do this. Secondly since accessories were created you wont be able to get them all with the same in-game action, they have different unlock conditions. This is true for both [chi] and Unchained when, for example, you will get the hat of a costume by being ranked in the top 100 but only the earrings when you are in the top 50. That's why I think we should keep the unlock conditions as simple as possible and mention only the event or board it comes from and possibly the date.
#There are independent accessories that are kept in the same clothing space but have no "source" costume. With five exceptions they are unisex, so at least there's that. They would go in a different tab.
#Hairstyles are the only other thing that also get expanded one, expressions and colors stay the same forever.
#The numbering is a problem too. In [chi] no numbers are shown, the costumes are still numbered internally and are sorted this way in-game. They are sorted exactly the same way in Unchained so even though we have this new Avatar Board numbering, it doesn't mean anything. So there is a decision to be made: Make the Avatar page independent from the Avatar Board page or not. If we use the   old numbering system we simply mention the Avatar Board the costume can be unlocked with (probably the Lux level too) in Unchained's unlock criteria column. If we want to keep these things on the same page then we need to separate the costumes in four categories: costumes from Avatar Boards that can be unlocked by leveling up, costumes Avatar Boards that can be bought with jewels (unnumbered), costumes from Avatar Boards that can be unlocked through different means (from Events and Coliseum Reward, unnumbered too) and costumes from other sources (no Avatar Board at all, that means the initial clothes and ranking rewards). To make matters worse not only costumes can be Avatar Boards but Hairstyles and independent accessories too, so I'm not sure this will help to get a good overview.
So, any good ideas how this should look and how we can avoid making this the longest table ever? We could make the images even smaller if that would help. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 10:11, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
:Could we list the X ID, and make that column sortable? Or does X not number the items by category?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:38, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
:"you will get the hat of a costume by being ranked in the top 100 but only the earrings when you in the top 50."...wut. You mean if I buy the headpiece when I have a low rank, I can never get the earrings?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:38, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
::No, in case of ranking items you don't buy them, you receive them based on your rank when the ranking is over. So when you miss an ranking item there is chance you will never get it. In [chi] most of these ranking reward costumes became available in the trade shop one year later, but not all of them. I don't know if this will work with Unchained the same way, currently there is no way to get clothing pieces you've missed.
::Sorting by the costumes number (there is no problem to get them) and name would be a good idea, but then there is probably no way to group the accessories with their costume. The Japanese wiki solve this problem by having two tables, one for the [http://wikiwiki.jp/khx/?%A5%A2%A5%D0%A5%BF%A1%BC costumes alone] and one for the [http://wikiwiki.jp/khx/?%A5%A2%A5%D0%A5%BF%A1%BC%2F%A5%A2%A5%AF%A5%BB%A5%B5%A5%EA costumes and their parts]. The NA translation of Unchained also doesn't make any difference between the male and female version of a clothing item like the JP version does. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 09:58, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
{{OpenTalk}}
@@ Line 28: / Line 28: @@
 ::No, in case of ranking items you don't buy them, you receive them based on your rank when the ranking is over. So when you miss an ranking item there is chance you will never get it. In [chi] most of these ranking reward costumes became available in the trade shop one year later, but not all of them. I don't know if this will work with Unchained the same way, currently there is no way to get clothing pieces you've missed.
 ::Sorting by the costumes number (there is no problem to get them) and name would be a good idea, but then there is probably no way to group the accessories with their costume. The Japanese wiki solve this problem by having two tables, one for the [http://wikiwiki.jp/khx/?%A5%A2%A5%D0%A5%BF%A1%BC costumes alone] and one for the [http://wikiwiki.jp/khx/?%A5%A2%A5%D0%A5%BF%A1%BC%2F%A5%A2%A5%AF%A5%BB%A5%B5%A5%EA costumes and their parts]. The NA translation of Unchained also doesn't make any difference between the male and female version of a clothing item like the JP version does. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 09:58, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
-:::Oh, so it's not something you buy from the Avatar Boards, it's separate rewards for Coliseum/Lux rankings?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 03:32, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
-::::Yes, there are costumes you can only gather from rankings which don't come with a board. When costumes come with a hairstyle in [chi] (like the Moogle, Cloud, Yuffie, Chip, Dale etc.) the bodies will get a Coliseum Board and the hairstyle will be a ranking reward. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 12:39, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
 {{OpenTalk}}
-==History==
-Shouldn't this article have a history section as the Player is canon to the Kingdom Hearts universe?
-[[Special:Contributions/46.7.20.225|46.7.20.225]] 06:03, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
-:Yes, the issue is just that it's a lot to write.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:21, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
-Someone can probably take the Chirithy history as a base and modify it. [[User:Diamonddeath|Diamonddeath]] ([[User talk:Diamonddeath|talk]]) 09:06, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
-== Customizing the Player ==
-Should this be "Outfits"?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:20, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
-== default player ==
-Isn't the skin color a wee bit [https://images.khinsider.com/KINGDOM%20HEARTS%20X/Screenshots/4Gamer%20-%20January%2023%202014/002.jpg lighter] on the default?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 12:36, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
-==Page Construction==
-I would like to suggest reformatting the page in some way. With the current state of it, there is no real place to put in the story from the KHX saga - is there any way to put the customizable avatar parts on a branching page as is done with the galleries of other pages? Furthermore, how would I refer to Player's Union on the page? I'm referring to the fact that Unicornis appears to be the canon option. Do we still refer to the other story options on this page, or would we simply include story differences on other character pages where appropriate (i.e. the Foretellers)? ([[User:Levi657|Levi657]] ([[User talk:Levi657|talk]]) 23:15, 8 January 2019 (UTC))
-== "Player" as the name? ==
-Are we treating "Player" as the name for this character? 'Cause I'm adding the characters' quotes in KHUX and some would refer to Player by name. While Player's Union is decided by the player and I would put "[Union]" when it's mentioned, do we do the same for Player's name like "[Player]" or do we just put "Player"?
-We also have a {{khux|Template:Player|Player template}} at KHUX Wiki that automatically uses the user's username. Maybe we can use a similar template here? [[User:LightKeyDarkBlade|LightKeyDarkBlade]] ([[User talk:LightKeyDarkBlade|talk]]) 17:29, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
-::Due to the nature of the game, Player is what the wiki decided on to keep 100% neutral, so yeah, we kinda use in lieu of an actual name. And yeah, that's what I would do when there's dialogue involving specifying a Union and using the player's name. I'm not involved with the KHUX Wiki, but I don't know if we should implement that on the KHWiki. Anyone else got input on that matter?--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 03:21, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
-== Reincarnation ==
-Are we sure that the Player’s heart merged with Xehanort’s? I thought it was the same heart via reincarnation.
-[[User:Diamonddeath|Diamonddeath]] ([[User talk:Diamonddeath|talk]]) 14:24, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
-:There is no definite answer on both of these theories, as nothing like this is shown in the game and we don't have any clues how reincarnation works in the KH universe. We've seen Ventus' heart "merging" with Sora's new born heart in BBS, but at least here the timeline somewhat fits. Xehanort is likely born some decades after Ephemer stranded in the recently destroyed Daybreak Town which roughly occurs at the same time as Player's heart was released. We would need a post-game interview from Nomura to clarify the situation. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 14:39, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
-::I always thought Ven's heart went inside Sora (either into his body or his heart) to heal, not merged with his own. If anything, the player and Xehanort seem to be more similiar to Roxas and Sora.--[[User:Mikoto|Mikoto]] ([[User talk:Mikoto|talk]]) 21:06, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
-:::Centuries or millenia after, not decades, KHX era is stated to be ancient, that mean happen WAAAAAAAY before--[[Special:Contributions/93.41.34.168|93.41.34.168]] 15:22, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
-== Player is... ==
- ***DARK ROAD SPOILERS AHEAD***
-The ending of ''Union χ'' makes it very clear that '''Player's heart melds with that of Xehanort'''. A quick recap of the evidence:
-*Chirithy says they will join with a "brand new heart", and proceeds to show a vision of baby Xehanort (the caretaker is elderly – not exactly the kind to be harboring anything "brand new")
-*The vision of Xehanort follows his growth up to Scala ad Caelum, long past his caretaker's death (their potential new life is with Xehanort, not the guy who died two scenes ago)
-*In ''Dark Road'', Xehanort has flashbacks to Player's life in the form of dreams, even after the caretaker passes
-The ending of ''Dark Road'' insinuates that '''Player had a second life as Xehanort's caretaker'''. The evidence:
-*Xehanort lists all of the ''Union χ'' cast and notes that Player reminds him of his caretaker
-*The caretaker lived their first life in Daybreak Town and knew everyone Xehanort mentioned
-*The caretaker knew of the Book of Prophecies in their first life, but not of any actual prophecies until their second life in Old Scala ad Caelum
-*They state that Ephemer was a dear friend, and the scene cuts to Ephemer reaching out his hand to Player
-How can they be in two places at once? Well, let's not forget that Brain is also in two places at once, both a vessel for Luxu and awake in "An Unfamiliar Town" with Sigurd. Somehow (probably something to do with the data copies of the Dandelions, proven possible with Luxu's "true Dandelion" Strelitzia, but that's just speculation), both Player and Brain have a second life in Old Scala, which will likely be expanded upon in ''Missing-Link''.
-We should not ignore the evidence from ''Union χ'' that clearly points to Player's heart joining with Xehanort's. This doesn't mean we shouldn't add the ''Dark Road'' stuff as well, but until more information is revealed, I vote that we cover both of Player's fates.
-'''Conclusion / tl;dr: Player's heart melds with newborn Xehanort. That hasn't changed. In addition, it seems that Player somehow lived a second life, growing up to become Xehanort's caretaker.'''
-[[User:Aid1043|Aid1043]] ([[User talk:Aid1043|talk]]) 21:18, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
-:I acquiesce. We have explicit confirmation from Nomura that the blue robed figure "bears the heart of the Player from UX". And this is backed up his non-confirmation at the 20th anniversary interview: "Q. At the end of UX, the Player's heart melts into Xehanort's heart? A. You'll understand when you see the end of Dark Road." So, this means that the UX finale was intentionally misleading (you can't convince me that we were meant to interpret "join with a brand new heart" as the geriatric robed figure instead of the literal newborn; even when watching that scene in retrospect it's a pretty big leap). I guess we can hand-wave that, because Xehanort's heard connected with his caretaker's, Player could still see a vision of his life after the caretaker's passing – but overall, this just doesn't sit right. Oh well. [[User:Aid1043|Aid1043]] ([[User talk:Aid1043|talk]]) 00:16, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
-== Male Player is canon ==
-Dark Road ending depicts M Player with Ephemer in the flashback. IDK how much of connectivity DR has with UX where it reads your UX data or not to determined that cutscene. But based on the cutscene, M Player is the canon appearances of the character in the series, despite appearances of F Player in the game and I'm going by Fire Emblem logic with how both M/F Robin existing, but M Robin is the canon gender. So because of that, I'm suggesting Player should be using male pronouns in any articles regarding him.  {{User:UnknownChaser/Sig}} 17:51, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
-:On the other hand, the DR ending goes conspicuously out of its way to avoid gendering Player – Xehanort describes every UX character as a "boy" or "girl", but describes Player as "another one" in the group. That, plus the fact that Xehanort's caretaker's face is always concealed in their blue robes, makes me believe that Player is still meant to be treated ambiguously. [[User:Aid1043|Aid1043]] ([[User talk:Aid1043|talk]]) 18:01, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
-::Nomura said in the post-game interview that some scenes with the player could be misinterpreted and are subject to change in the announced 5.0.1 version. So this scene could very well be wrong in its current stage. I'd suggest to wait for this fix before declaring the male player canon since Aid1043 correctly pointed out how they tried to keep it vague in the past. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 18:43, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
-:::So, the update has been released, and all scenes with the Player have been changed to avoid showing them, or only showing an arm or something. Meaning Player's gender is once again ambiguous. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 07:34, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
-== Customizing Player ==
-Should this be split out to its own list article? "List of Player Outfit" or something like that. Like Aqua page doesn't list all the stuff you can make her wear. This info really has no reason to be all on the the main page. {{User:UnknownChaser/Sig}} 06:16, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
-:Agreed. We should compare the current section with the {{khux|Avatar Parts}} article on the KHUX Wiki, since that page covers a lot of the same ground (but, from a glance, is more up-to-date?). Either we expand the table into its own article or just remove it and link to the KHUX Wiki page. —<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:110%>[[User:Aid1043|<span style="color:#9932CC">Aid</span>]][[User talk:Aid1043|<span style="color:#9932CC">1043</span>]]</span> 15:35, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
-::I agree with splitting it. I believe "Avatar Parts" is the official name, so we should probably go with that. I can't remember if the page on KHUX Wiki was fully up-to-date at the end or not, though. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:23, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
-:::The KHUX site is not up to date, not even close, I was trying to gather all missing information but I'm still not finished since this takes so much time. [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Id-VT4iVje6mL0N0JItDC3hcG5U_wc83mlBSxCjS45U/edit?usp=sharing Here]'s my current version. Blue means [chi] exclusive, grey means [UCX] exclusive, yellow means missing information, orange cut content, red means n/a. I've checked all the costumes and all independend Head A pieces I think, hairstyles might also be mostly complete, the rest is wip including the official NA translation for the accessories. The game uses an internal numbering system to sort everything, see my post from eight years ago above, this is still the case in the offline version. The last tab might by of some use, it's a game data collection which includes the latest NA translations for all avatar and pet parts and (sadly there is no JP counterpart) and some information from chi files I still had around.
-:::Challenges: Obtainment often differs between games versions (chi, JP UCX, NA UCX), UCX stats missing, but maybe that's not important for a page on this wiki. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}}20:33, 11 November 2024 (UTC)