Editing Talk:No Heart

==Untitled==
''Despite the recent inclusion of '''No Heart''' in ''Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep Final Mix'', this page should '''only be used for discussion related to the article'''. Any discussions related to simply the game itself should be held in the forums, and will be removed from this page if posted.''

==Heartstation==

{{Asif|text=According to Heartstation's translation of the Weekly Shonen issue concerning No Heart, it actually gets out of the throne to attack the player, during which it is much more powerful.  Should this be added to the page?  Since Heartstation's translations aren't always completely accurate, I thought I'd ask before making any changes.}}
{{KrytenKoro|We actually already translated that passage, and it doesn't say it gets more powerful, it says that it uses taijutsu. Especially for something like this, we should wait for actual videos or gameplay.}}

== "Adorned with dozens of Nobody Symbols" ==

Aside from the single Nobody Symbol on the chest plates, where are the others?
I suppose you could say that points that peak from No Heart's knees are incomplete Nobody Symbols, but aside from that, No Heart's armor isn't really "adorned with dozens of Nobody Symbols." Just the one... --[[User:XYZach|ΧƳƵach.]] 04:28, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

{{WarMonger89|text= maybe they just liked the idea of putting parts of the nobody symbol all over his armour. but anyways, at least we know where the symbol came from.}}

:You can actually see them listed there. Look at the kneecap guards, and the little yellow spikes from his pauldrons, and you can kind of see the bootguards too. They're all Nobody sigils. I do agree though that this sentence confesses far more than the truth, and I'll fix it up accordingly. {{User:Soxra/Sig|t=4:32am, December 14, 2010 (UTC)}}
:Are they the actual emblem, or just the thorns?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 05:26, December 14, 2010 (UTC)
::The thorns. So I'd go with "dozens of Nobody thorns" or something like that. [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 05:33, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Well I guess it's just going to come down to opinions because I totally agree that he has plenty of spiky intricate points on his armor, but the only true Nobody Symbols is on the chest plates. Like the spikes on his left pauldron, for example, are completely identical to his crown, the only difference is that the crown spikes connect to a circle (because it sits on his head like a crown duh) and the pauldron spikes connect to a semi-circle (because it wraps around the shoulder duh). The large crosses on his knees and boots are closer to Nobody Symbols, but they aren't complete.
So if you want to count those, that makes approximately 5 Nobody Symbols.

Otherwise Sora sports a "Nobody Symbol" Crown in Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix. --[[User:XYZach|ΧƳƵach.]] 05:34, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

:If any part can be considered more than just the thorns, it would have to be the shin/knee guards. --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 05:36, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Eh, the points on the crown aren't stylized the same way as Nobody thorns.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 05:37, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

== Variations ==

I'm inclined to add Xemnas under "variations". Is this a problem for anyone?  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 05:36, December 14, 2010 (UTC)
:Nope. [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 05:40, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

What about the Xemnas page? Would this be added there too? What about spoilers? How does that work with the Final Mixes?

Aside from all that, I agree, it belongs.--[[User:XYZach|ΧƳƵach.]] 05:42, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

== 闇への遠謀 ==

The kanji on the magazine means Foresight/Forethought into Darkness, not Vista to Darkness. Both are pronounced the same way (Yami he no Enbou), but vista is written as 遠望.

Would this not indicate that this battle is a glimpse of things to come?
:If that's the kanji, then yes. However, the source I found typed it as "vista". Is there any way you could get a screenshot or something to verify your reading?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:20, December 14, 2010 (UTC)
::Nevermind, I found it. Correcting!{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:24, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

== Xehanort's Keyblade Armor? ==

How do we know that it is Xehanort's Keyblade Armor? I mean do we have any confirmation? If we have sorry for this I've been out of the Wiki for quite some time and I have no idea of what is going on around here.--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 01:10, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

{{WarMonger89|text= Well, most people think that because he has Master Xehanort's Keyblade, they think it's his armor. but i think it is because in KHII Xemnas was able to use a slimmer version of this particular armor. but, you can be the judge of that, mate.}}

{{Xabryn|X-mas=The Keyblade only shows that it is related to him it doesn't means it is his Armor, I mean aside from the Keyblade what do we have? I mean it is much more related to Xemnas than to any other character in the series it uses MX's Keyblade but it also has Nobody symbols or symbol not sure about that if that is MX's Armor then he got it before the events of BBS which would mean that he had not connection to Nobodies so can someone explain me why it has the Nobody symbol if before MX became Xemnas he was only interested in the heart and not the body?}}

{{WarMonger89|text=i said MOST people think it's him because of the Keyblade. I just said that i think it's might be him, because Xemnas used the armor too.}}

{{Chitalian8|time=01:41, December 23, 2010 (UTC)|text= We know it because it has his Keyblade, you were right. It's the same with AotM, no one else has used his Keyblade, and Xemnas has used that exact armor.}}

{{WarMonger89|text=It is exact, but when xemnas wore it, it was slimmed down.}}

{{Chitalian8|time=01:47, December 23, 2010 (UTC)|text= Slimmed down? Not at all. Compare the 2 pictures.
[[File:Xemnas (Armored Controller) KHII.png|200px]]
[[File:NoHeart.png|150px]]
I think you'll find that they are exactly alike.
}}

{{WarMonger89|text=oh, they are the same. i thought with Xemnas' body type, i thought it was slimmed down just to fit him}}

{{Chitalian8|time=01:54, December 23, 2010 (UTC)|joshua= Well, MX and Xemnas are both pretty skinny guys. >.>}}

{{WarMonger89|text=well, i just thought that No Heart was a bit bulkier. that's all}}


{{Xabryn|X-mas=Third time I'm trying to write this. Terranort used the keyblade and he soon lost his memory and became the other Xehanort which soon became Xemnas and Nomura did stated that Xemnas is a special Noboy '''LIKE ROXAS''' and if I'm not mistaken someone in this wiki said that it could mean that Nomura is implying Xemnas is a keyblade wielder. and with MX and Terra's memory couldn't he have got a Keyblade armor himself? I mean we have no idea of how Keyblade wielders gain these armors right? it could be anyway. besides the fact that it has the nobody symbol makes this case much different from AotM, doesn't it? I mean why would MX's armor have the nobody symbol if he wasn't related to any nobody at the time?}}

{{WarMonger89|text=Maybe that's how Xemnas came up with the idea of the Nobody Symbol}}

{{Chitalian8|time=02:04, December 23, 2010 (UTC)|hane= Xemnas inherited the armor from MX, not the other way around.}}

{{WarMonger89|text=That's not what i ment, i meant that Xemnas remembered his old self (Master Xehanort) and maybe because of the Armor he used to wear, Xemnas probably came up with the Nobody Symbol}}

{{Chitalian8|time=02:11, December 23, 2010 (UTC)|neku= My point was directed at Xabryn, Warmonger.}}

{{Xabryn|X-mas=I never said that it was the other way around I just said that Xemnas is the only wearer of the armor and it would make more sense to say that it was Xemnas (I'm not suggesting that, it would be speculation but saying that it is MX's is a bigger speculation). And I don't think that Xemnas created the nobody symbol since all the nobodies use it (with the exception of Org XIII of course)}}

{{Chitalian8|time=02:19, December 23, 2010 (UTC)|text= If there is enough evidence, we draw the line at speculation. Read my above reasons, It's MX's keyblade, no one else uses it or has been shown using it. Also, Xemnas used it, Xemnas being, as you know, his Nobody. Since the two are connected, that reinforces the point that it his Keyblade armor. Also, Xemnas led the Nobodies, and in effect, Xehanort created them, of course they would have his symbol.}}

{{Xabryn|X-mas=Are you kidding? Xemnas or Xehanort did not created the Nobodies he just commanded them because they had a wish in common to have a heart according to Xehanort/Ansem's Reports 13 he thought the body disappears when a Heartless is created. and just using the Keyblade does not proof anything that Keyblade is related to MX yes but MX is connected to more people than anyone else, I mean his heart passed to Terra's body that splitted and became a Heartless and a Nobody and due to the symbol it shows that it makes more sense for the armor to belong to the nobody than any other thing that Xehanort may have become}}

{{Chitalian8|time=02:36, December 23, 2010 (UTC)|text= My mistake. He was the ''first'' Nobody.}}

{{Xabryn|X-mas=I'm sorry but do you have any proof for that statment? Because if you don't that's speculation a <big>'''BIG'''</big> speculation, aside from the lack of nobodie before KH2 doesn't show anything since Heartless were hardly seen before KH1 and in BBS it seems like they had to be summoned. If Xemnas did anything was broke some barrier to let Nobodies into the Realm of Light nothing else}}

{{iZerox|time=06:26, December 23, 2010 (UTC)|ansem=Neoshadows and normal Shadow heartless both are labeled as "Pureblood" heartless. They don't need a pre-existing being to come into being as they are just darkness itself, and have no heart because they had no being to begin with. Nobodies as far as we know are only created when a somebody becomes a heartless and if they had a strong will their empty body continues on as a nobody, but only those with the strongest wills retain their human form and memories.

Xehanort started the experiments that created the artificial heartless that were made from a somebody losing their heart and in turn they became a heartless. So in turn by starting these experiments to create heartless from somebodies, nobodies would have come into existence at this time. Though to say that Xemnas was the first nobody to exist would hardly seem accurate as lesser nobodies could have spawned elsewhere upon their creation of heartless.

So in a way Xehanort created nobodies as well not just emblem heartless. He just wasn't aware of them at the time.}}

{{ErryTalk|time=10:34, December 23, 2010 (UTC)|eziotext=To add on what iZerox said, Xemnas wasn't the ''first'' Nobody to exist, but is the first to exist in Kingdom Hearts canon. And was the first to be shown.}}

{{Xabryn|X-mas=When Sora used the KoPH he became a Pureblood Heartless and he also created a nobody that proof that Pureblood Heartless do need a pre-existing being and that nobodies exist as long as heartless but for some reason they didn't seem to show in the Realm of light. Who knows why? Maybe they thought it wasn't worth until Xemns show p saying that they could be whole again by creating a Kingdom Heart. And I'm not sure what you mean when you say that he was the first to exist in Kingdom Hearts canon, Erry.}}

{{Chitalian8|time=14:26, December 23, 2010 (UTC)|text= Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that he means that in the whole universe and timeline of KH, he is the first to be created.}}

{{Xabryn|text=If you mean Erry we already discussed that in the IRC, and Xemnas is not the first nobody to be created}}

I meant that Erry meant (x_x) that in the Universe and timeline as we know it, he's the first. {{User:Chitalian8/Sig}} 14:36, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

And I said that Xemnas is not the first. But that's not the point around here the point is that we have no idea if that's MX's armor and saying otherwise is speculation--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 14:50, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

{{iZerox|time=14:55, December 23, 2010 (UTC)|hooded=Sora only became a shadow because of how little darkness was in his heart and that was all that could be created from the darkness in him. Pureblood heartless are created from the darkness in people and if I recall correctly they can be made simply from darkness leaked from someone's heart.

Anyway what he meant about Xemnas being the first canonically is that he's the first nobody seen in-game chronologically because we see him in Kingdom Hearts: Final Mix.}}

{{Xabryn|X-mas=Yes Sora didn't have much darkness that's why he became a shadow but Sora isn't the only example look at Donald in KH 2 when Yen Sid showed them the nature of Nobodies he showed Donald as a shadow not a Emblem Heartless. Emblem Heartless are artificially created Pureblood are created naturally when a heart is consumed by darkness they're not just darkness there is a dark heart with it too, also do you have any proof that Purebloods can be created simply with darkness? Because I never heard or read anything about it, all that I've seen is people in this Wiki talking it}}

::It has Xehanort's name, it has Xehanort's Keyblade, it is armor that he is seen wearing later, it is emblazoned with his emblem (the Nobody emblem belongs to Xehanort/Xemnas), it sits in the throne in the same stance that Xehanort did at the beginning of the game, the name of the Arena matches references a line that Xehanort uses in Blank Points....it's very clearly his armor.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 04:11, December 24, 2010 (UTC)

Why does everyone thinks that the Nobody emblem belongs to Xemnas? Yes it uses Xehanort's Keyblade yes it has Xehanort's name but remember Xemnas was the one to realize about the anagram of his name (Another), Xemnas's page says that he can use a Keyblade but preferred not to so doesn't that means that he can use Xehanort's Keyblade? I mean Terra's is with the LS isn't it? And the emblem is from the Nobodies the armor is a reference to Xemnas not Xehanort all the signs point to him especially the fact that he wears it in KH2 but if you guys really want to keep speculating that it is Xehanort's fine, but I still don't agree with it and which one of Xehanort's lines make a reference to Machinations unto Darkness?--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 15:15, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
:The Ultimania explicitly says that Xehanort came up with the Nobody emblem based on his memories of the Keyblade-Wielder emblem.
:Xehanort's Keyblade is tied to Xehanort's being.
:The line is the one about taking Terra's body being just one of many of his deeply-laid plans (i.e. machinations).{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:32, December 24, 2010 (UTC)

It is in this times that I wish I knew japanese I have no idea of what the ultimania says. I still think it is speculation to say that it is his but it's my opinion agaisnt the opinion of everyone in the wiki, I guess I'll get used to it--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 16:50, December 24, 2010 (UTC)

{{Asif|text=Uhh... I hate to be that guy, but shouldn't talk not related to this page (like whether or not Xemnas is the 1st Nobody) be in the forums instead?  Just saying.}}

{{Xabryn|text=You're right but it started as a discussion related to the page and later somehow became a discussion about it and then got back to the actual subject but I don't think that the discussion isn't over yet correct me if I'm wrong but the Ultimania states that the symbol is related to Terra isn't it? So wouldn't that mean that it couldn't be Xehanort's Armor since the emblem is made after the emblem that Terra used? (this according to a tranlation of the ultimania, not sure if it is right but I got to give it a shot right?)}}

{{KrytenKoro|No, it says that it was made based on Xehanort's memories of the emblem. As a Master and a costudent of Eraqus, Master Xehanort was familiar with the emblem just as much, if not more so, than Terra.}}

{{Xabryn|text=Are you sure about that? I may don't understand Japanase but I know how Terra's and Xehanort's names are written and I can see Terra's name in that but I can't see Xehanort's}}

{{KrytenKoro|I was wrong on what the Ultimania said about the emblem. It mentions that the Nobody emblem resembles the mark that Terra wore (although Eraqus, Ventus, and Aqua wore it too, so yeah.)}}

== Better Picture ==

{{Masgrande|time=03:33, December 26, 2010 (UTC)|text=Wouldn't the picture of No Hearts sitting on the throne be better than the one we are currently using?}}

Both have their advantages, but the one we have now shows the whole armor, and I personally think it's better to show the whole picture than a close-up for the main image.  {{User:RoxasNobody/sig}}

Besides, we always use renders, and if the render is bad we wait until a better, newer one comes out. {{User:Erry/Sig}} 12:12, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Unlockable weapon. ==

Might as well post this here, beating him unlocks a weapon. Its stats are +8 Attack & +7 Magic. I don't know Japanese but here is an image[http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8609/snap000k.png] of it. I'm sorry if this isn't the right place to post this but the Keyblade is linked to the actual boss. Also, I'm uploading a video of the fight so you can add more information to this page. Enjoy!

~1stkirbyever

First off, actually as far as i know it is perfectly fine to post this here, second off, that is one ugly ass keyblade, would it kill them to just let us wield xehanort's keyblade already? it's the one keyblade that hasn't got a name yet (we haven't got eraqus' either but at least we know we're going to)--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 16:39, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

I translated the name and it seems to translate to "Crown Unlimit", I suppose if it were English, it'd be "Unlimited Crown" or something along the lines of that. {{User:Erry/Sig}} 16:54, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

== Journal Entry. ==

Might as well put this here too. Translation is needed like always.
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2360/snap001c.png

:If someone can get the nihongo, I can do this quickly. Otherwise, it will have to wait a bit.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 06:30, January 22, 2011 (UTC)

== Merge ==

Do we have any confirmation that it is a simulation of Master Xehanort? Because the Journal entry does say that his identity is unclear so wouldn't that mean that it may not be MX? If we have a confirmation then forget that I said anything and go on with the merging--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 00:39, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
:The only thing I see that links him to Xehanort is that he wields his Keyblade and his armor is identical to the armor of Xehanort's Nobody, Xemnas. I don't think this should be merged either. --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 02:18, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
While I ''would'' say No Heart is a sim of Master Xehanort, as it uses his Keyblade and armor that can only be his, the connection is not explicit enough for me to justify the merge.

Actually, on further reflection, it might make more sense for it to be a sim of post-merge Xehanort, or possibly of MX in his prime.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 02:26, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
:Nomura said it. He said that he wanted the bosses in, but put them in Mirage Arena so they could just be data simulations that wouldn't impact the overall plot like the Unknown and Vanitas Remnant do.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 02:55, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

I'm against merging this page as well as merging Armor of the Master with Eraqus. They are indeed simulations of other characters. But unlike the Absent Silhouettes and the like, these are given journal entries with their own names. These characters do not appear in these forms in any other occurrence and while it is true they're the same character in many ways, they are quite unique and distinct. Merging these would be like Merging Vanitas Remnant and Vanitas. Vanitas Remnant is obviously still Vanitas to some extent but they're quite separate as far as how the game encounters go. And they both have their own distinct journal entries as well. I oppose this merge. --[[File:Terra-Ansem.png|13px]]'''[[User:iZerox|<font color=darkred><big>i</big><small></small></font>]][[User talk:iZerox|<font color=orange><big>Zerox</big><small></small></font>]]'''[[File:Lea_Frisbee.png|30px]] 03:38, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

:Well, to build on that, No Heart is even more different from MX than AotM is from Eraqus, if you consider fighting styles. AotM, at least, builds on many of Eraqus's attacks from his boss battle<!--and the Lingering Will, it looks like--> in its own battle, but No Heart's style doesn't resemble either MX's or Terra-Xehanort's fighting styles, or anyone else's, as far as I can tell.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 03:52, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
:He does use Dark Volley and the Keyblade storms, for one. There's more, but I put it on AotM's talk page.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 04:52, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
::IT HAS. XEHANORT'S. NAME. Saying it could be Terra is ridiculous. The only difficulty/question here is "where did it come from?", and Nomura specifically wrote it as a data simulation so that THAT QUESTION WOULDN'T NEED AN ANSWER. It has Xehanort's name, it has Xehanort's Keyblade, it has Xehanort's attacks from the Graveyard battle, its arena is based off of where Xehanort fought Eraqus, and Xehanort later wears the armor as Xemnas. It is '''''not''''' speculation to say that it is a copy of Xehanort in his armor.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:35, 25 June 2011 (EDT)

==No Heart≠MX or not==
{{Xabryn|text=Okay this has gone far enough, we are not sure if No Heart is MX saying otherwise is speculation and the wiki is against speculation.}}
{{ErryTalk|time=22:29, 24 June 2011 (EDT)|edea=Have you any proof against that?}}
{{LapisScarab|time=00:32, 25 June 2011 (EDT)|text=Burden of proof is on us, not Xabryn. We need sources to prove that No Heart is MX's armor.}}
:[[Talk:Armor of the Master#Merging]]. We know for an absolute fact that it is MX's armor, because it is later worn by Xemnas, and is Keyblade Armor. The journal does not explicitly say "Master Xehanort in his Keyblade Armor", no, but at a certain point we are just being euphemistic-ostriches here.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 03:08, 25 June 2011 (EDT)
{{Xabryn|text=We have no proof that it is MX's yes Xemnas worn it later but from what I know Xemnas is Terra's body not MX's besides the Armor has the nobody symbol which comes from Terra's memories about the way he sits it Xemnas has both Terra's and MX memories and sits the same way as MX he uses MX's keyblade but as Xemnas's page says he may be able to use a Keyblade just chose not to and I could go on and on abour what No heart has to do which Xemnas but instead all i'm going to say is everything we have that points to MX also points to other character so no we don't have enough proof that it is MX's keyblade armor which makes it speculation to say otherwise}}

I have no place here, but you know, Xabryn, that if it is Xemnas (which I doubt) it just further down the connection with Master Xehanort? As Xemnas have MX memories, and probably soul as well. Now, I am off.--'''[[User:Dark-EnigmaXIII|<font color=black><big>Dark-En</big>]][[User talk:Dark-EnigmaXIII|<font color=gray><big>igmaXIII</big>]]</font></font> 09:08, 25 June 2011 (EDT)

{{Xabryn|text=I'm not saying that No Heart is Xemnas i'm saying that we're not sure if it is MX, and Xemnas is Xehanort's nobody and Xehanort is made of both Terra and MX not one but two hearts so maybe the Keyblade Armor is Xehanort the new entity made from both Terra and MX, and again I'm not saying that No Heartt is Xehanort but that we're not sure if it is MX}}

{{Chitalian8|time=09:46, 25 June 2011 (EDT)|talk= Even if it is Terra's body, it's not his Keyblade Armor. And what you're talking about with Xemnas choosing not to use a Keyblade, that's kinda going against your own point. He had to have used a Keyblade, as it's Keyblade Armor created by Master Xehanort's Keyblade.}}

{{Xabryn|text=We don't know how a Keyblade Wielder get a Keyblade armor so your last statment doesn't make much sense, yes it is Terra's body but the nobody is [[Xehanort]]'s a new entity made from both Terra and MX's hearts.}}
{{LapisScarab|time=14:32, 25 June 2011 (EDT)|text=Aren't No Heart and the Armor of the Master data replicas? If so, the argument isn't really about who's literally in the armor, but rather whose armor it's based on.

@Kryten: Hasn't our policy always been that we need an actual source or irrefutable proof? As much as it makes sense, saying that No Heart is MX's armor is still just an assumption. It's identical to armor Xemnas wore, but MX was never seen wearing his armor. The only connections it has to MX are the Keyblade and Xemnas using it. It's a very ''good'' assumption, but we've raised hell about speculation everywhere else, and there's no reason to change here. }}
@@ Line 60: / Line 60: @@
 {{Chitalian8|time=01:47, December 23, 2010 (UTC)|text= Slimmed down? Not at all. Compare the 2 pictures.
 [[File:Xemnas (Armored Controller) KHII.png|200px]]
-[[File:No Heart KHBBSFM.png|150px]]
+[[File:NoHeart.png|150px]]
 I think you'll find that they are exactly alike.
 }}
@@ Line 168: / Line 168: @@
 :Nomura said it. He said that he wanted the bosses in, but put them in Mirage Arena so they could just be data simulations that wouldn't impact the overall plot like the Unknown and Vanitas Remnant do.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 02:55, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
-I'm against merging this page as well as merging Armor of the Master with Eraqus. They are indeed simulations of other characters. But unlike the Absent Silhouettes and the like, these are given journal entries with their own names. These characters do not appear in these forms in any other occurrence and while it is true they're the same character in many ways, they are quite unique and distinct. Merging these would be like Merging Vanitas Remnant and Vanitas. Vanitas Remnant is obviously still Vanitas to some extent but they're quite separate as far as how the game encounters go. And they both have their own distinct journal entries as well. I oppose this merge. --<!--[[File:Terra-Ansem.png|13px]]-->'''[[User:iZerox|<font color=darkred><big>i</big><small></small></font>]][[User talk:iZerox|<font color=orange><big>Zerox</big><small></small></font>]]'''[[File:Lea_Frisbee.png|30px]] 03:38, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
+I'm against merging this page as well as merging Armor of the Master with Eraqus. They are indeed simulations of other characters. But unlike the Absent Silhouettes and the like, these are given journal entries with their own names. These characters do not appear in these forms in any other occurrence and while it is true they're the same character in many ways, they are quite unique and distinct. Merging these would be like Merging Vanitas Remnant and Vanitas. Vanitas Remnant is obviously still Vanitas to some extent but they're quite separate as far as how the game encounters go. And they both have their own distinct journal entries as well. I oppose this merge. --[[File:Terra-Ansem.png|13px]]'''[[User:iZerox|<font color=darkred><big>i</big><small></small></font>]][[User talk:iZerox|<font color=orange><big>Zerox</big><small></small></font>]]'''[[File:Lea_Frisbee.png|30px]] 03:38, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
 :Well, to build on that, No Heart is even more different from MX than AotM is from Eraqus, if you consider fighting styles. AotM, at least, builds on many of Eraqus's attacks from his boss battle<!--and the Lingering Will, it looks like--> in its own battle, but No Heart's style doesn't resemble either MX's or Terra-Xehanort's fighting styles, or anyone else's, as far as I can tell.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 03:52, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
 :He does use Dark Volley and the Keyblade storms, for one. There's more, but I put it on AotM's talk page.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 04:52, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
+::IT HAS. XEHANORT'S. NAME. Saying it could be Terra is ridiculous. The only difficulty/question here is "where did it come from?", and Nomura specifically wrote it as a data simulation so that THAT QUESTION WOULDN'T NEED AN ANSWER. It has Xehanort's name, it has Xehanort's Keyblade, it has Xehanort's attacks from the Graveyard battle, its arena is based off of where Xehanort fought Eraqus, and Xehanort later wears the armor as Xemnas. It is '''''not''''' speculation to say that it is a copy of Xehanort in his armor.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:35, 25 June 2011 (EDT)
 ==No Heart≠MX or not==
@@ Line 190: / Line 191: @@
 @Kryten: Hasn't our policy always been that we need an actual source or irrefutable proof? As much as it makes sense, saying that No Heart is MX's armor is still just an assumption. It's identical to armor Xemnas wore, but MX was never seen wearing his armor. The only connections it has to MX are the Keyblade and Xemnas using it. It's a very ''good'' assumption, but we've raised hell about speculation everywhere else, and there's no reason to change here. }}
-::It has. Xehanort's. Name. That's proof. As for the claim that it could be Terra, that's ridiculous. The only difficulty/question here is "where did it come from?", and Nomura specifically wrote it as a data simulation so that THAT QUESTION WOULDN'T NEED AN ANSWER. It has Xehanort's name, it has Xehanort's Keyblade, it has Xehanort's attacks from the Graveyard battle, its arena is based off of where Xehanort fought Eraqus, and Xehanort later wears the armor as Xemnas. It is '''''not''''' speculation to say that it is a copy of Xehanort in his armor.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:35, 25 June 2011 (EDT)
-{{LapisScarab|time=19:02, 25 June 2011 (EDT)|text=The name and design of the armor estabalishes a definite connection to Xehanort, but it does ''not'' '''prove''' that it actually is his armor. I don't care where it came from. This is like the "Jesse McCartney is voicing Ventus" thing. It would be totally unexpected and titanically stupid for what you're saying to be untrue, but that doesn't change the fact that it's speculative. All we ''know'' about No Heart is the information given in its Journal entry, unless Nomura says otherwise in the interview you mentioned on the Armor of the Master talk page. I don't see a link to that interview, so I can't know. Everything else you're saying about it, as well-reasoned as it is, is a pure conjecture.}}
-{{KrytenKoro|Fine. Then we do the same for Armor of the Master.
-On that note, do we have any explicit claim that the Unknown at the beginning of CoM was Marluxia?}}
-{{LapisScarab|time=20:55, 25 June 2011 (EDT)|text=I would assume seeing Marluxia taking off his hood would be enough, but I haven't played it in a while. From the shape of the cloak it's clearly not Larxene, Lexaeus, Axel, Vexen, or Zexion.
-EDIT: For the record, I'm just trying to keep consistent to the policy we've had in the past. I don't think this is something that ruins the article at all by staying, but if we let this through then we can't say "absolutely no speculation". More like "speculation if it can be sufficiently proven".}}
-{{Xabryn|text=He does use Marluxia's petals in the beggining and I'm almost sure that they have rhe same voice actor in Re:CoM but aside from this I don't think we have anything that explicit claim that the Unknown in CoM was Marluxia maybe the ultimania or an interview may provide more info}}
-Whoawhoawhoa. Regarding the Jesse McCartney thing that Lapis brought up, I'd say that's a different case. Voices can be easily imitated. Look at Bret Iwan doing Mickey, I couldn't tell him apart from Wayne Allwine. However, we can use given evidence to prove that No Heart is, in fact, MX's armor. {{User:Chitalian8/Sig}} 22:22, 25 June 2011 (EDT)
-{{LapisScarab|time=22:51, 25 June 2011 (EDT)|text=And that's part of my point. If we're going to say "absolutely 100% no speculation" like we have in the past, then that's just not going to slide as proof. Nothing we know prooves 100% what No Heart is. If we're going to keep the article as it is now, then we'd need to change that policy a bit.}}
-{{KrytenKoro|The fact that his name is "No Heart", which Nomura has explicitly said is Xehanort's name-meaning, is enough for me, even ignoring the fact that it's Xehanort's armor, Keyblade, and attacks. But if we're going as far as "if you can't see their face, or Nomura doesn't say it specifically, it's an Unknown", then that would apply to CoM Marluxia too. There is no identifying information for him, besides in the non-canon manga -- the assumption that he is Marluxia is down to process of elimination, not anything explicit.}}
-{{Xabryn|text=Would it really make that much of difference to change Marluxia in CoM to Unknown? I mean aside from [[The Unknown (disambiguation)|this page]] we don't mention him being the Unknown we see a the beginning of CoM anywhere else.
-Edit:10:01, 2 July 2011 (EDT) oh, and also I think that Marluxia's case as the Unknown is different since we have some story as base, the Unknown use Marluxia's petals has his voice and knows Axel, not to mention that in CoM he is the only character to appear hooded.}}
-{{KrytenKoro|The irony is staggering.
-There's no explicit word from Nomura that "The CoM Unknown is Marluxia". This is the credit you are using to say "We don't know if No Heart is based on Master Xehanort's armor", and it is in fact a stronger claim than the latter. If No Heart goes, then CoM Unknown ''absolutely'' goes.}}
-{{LapisScarab|time=13:45, 2 July 2011 (EDT)|text=Whatever, I'll go with that. I withdraw my argument.}}
-{{Xabryn|text=Oh for crying out loud, ALL the info we got that points to MX also points to other characters, we can't be sure of anything unless Nomura give us MX wearing the armor or he says that the armor belong to him. Besides all I said was that I THINK that Marluxia case is different due to the fact that the Unknown in CoM actually have some story, some voice, and the hints we have on him only points to one character. But fine do whatever you want. I give up}}
-{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=17:07, 2 July 2011 (EDT)|confusion=In Re:CoM, the Unknown's voice is Marluxia's, the outfit looks most like Marluxia's, and pink petals appear around him. If we're talking about '''''strictly''''' CoM, then I'd seriously doubt Nomura would just change the characters ''cause he feels like it.''}}
-{{KrytenKoro|Again, those are the ''exact'' points, not including the name and later use of the armor, that you are saying are not enough to validate No Heart. If we absolutely must be hardlined about this, then I'll give up and wait until the next Ultimania confirms it, but ''this street goes both ways''.}}
-== Is indicated to be Young Xehanort, not Old Xehanort ==
-[http://www.mediafire.com/download/vf01a910fdv9xo4/xehanort+exp+record+%28full+size+translated%29.png Source].{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:43, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
-:KH3 Ultimania:
-:ーWhat was the true identity of No Heart, who appeared in KH BbS FM?
-:Nomura: That was also Master Xehanort. That was the armour he used to wear a long time ago, and in this game he was wearing his current armour.
-So should this be merged into Xehanort with Game: No Heart added to the suite? --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 20:26, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
-:I don't think so. It's treated as an armor battle.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:56, 4 March 2019 (UTC)