Editing Talk:Lingering Will

How is it possible that he can only be fought after sealing Keyholes and defeating Xemnas?  There are no keyholes in KHII, and killing Xemnas ends the game.

*sigh!*..... Ok, 1-Yes, there are Keyholes. I'm not sure how else to explain it to you.
2-there's anoption at the end of final mix that lets you returrn to the game after Xemnas is defeated. -[[User:Xnaminex|xNaminéx]]
:Technically they're not keyholes, they're loopholes in the Gummi shield around each world...or something like that.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 23:55, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
::Find me a single place in the game where it says Keyholes.  Besides, the animation for the "opening" occurs in several worlds that have already had their Keyholes sealed, like Atlantica, Hollow Bastion, and Agrabah.  Why would the Keyhole unlock itself and transfer to another object?  They aren't Keyholes.  [[Special:Contributions/69.207.151.166|69.207.151.166]] 03:38, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
{{KrytenKoro|I've never understood that - it's so incredibly important in KH to seal those keyholes to save the universe, while in KH2 they're all "Open them up! What's the worst that could happen?"

If I understand correctly, the game lets you save the fact that you ''have'' beaten Xemnas, though it still places you, story-line wise, right before the boss, like in Chain of Memories.}}

But It's NOT like "Open them up!What's the worst that could happen?" 
Basically in KH1 the keyholes were the doors to the world's hearts(in a building, the door to the basement and foundation.keeps the house up.) In KH2 the keyholes were the roads to other worlds (the door outside) 
Two seperate things.
:I don't think the things that Sora zaps with the Keyblade at the end of each world's primary mission are keyholes at all.  Nobody calls them that, they look nothing like the keyholes from KHI, and Yen Sid makes no mention of them being Keyholes despite mentioning them specifically. [[Special:Contributions/69.207.145.217|69.207.145.217]] 23:27, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

== Terra and lingering sentiment ==

http://www.kingdomhearts3.net/scenario-mysteries-interview/
{{KrytenKoro|Nomura doesn't seem to actually say that the Lingering Sentiment ''is'' Terra, just that the other two armored knights are Aqua and Ven. The "decoding" and connection seem to be set by the fans and the interviewer, respectively.}}

yet he doesn't correct them either,perhaps because he thought it was obvious.

{{Morghman|Ya, but even so, is it necessary to make a section in the article for it? Doesn't that kinda stuff belong in the Discussion pages? And if it is going to stay, can it get some cleanup please?}}

== Terra ≠ the Lingering Sentiment: The Ultimate Proof ==
As stated in the Ultimania, when asked about Birth by Sleep, Nomura said and I quote:

"This game is set the farthest in the past of any other, so it connects to Kingdom Hearts, but the main characters are three that haven’t appeared in the other games."

This is even on the BbS page for goodness sake. So there you have it. And due to the nature of the Lingering Sentiment, being found through a black and purple portal, transporting Sora and co. to another location, and its Keyblade preforming attacks unheard of for any other Keyblade, it is rather obvious that the Lingering Sentiment is an Absent Silhouette and should be classified as so. Kthnxbai![[User:XYZach|XYZ.]] 07:15, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

News flash, idiot. That fight is NOT CANON! IT NEVER HAPPENED, IT'S JUST A FIGHT TO TEST THE PLAYER'S STRENGTH!

And we are not changing the page, so don't ask us to, OK?

Wow, those two are total douches. Why wouldn't we change the page if they just showed us that some of the information we have is wrong/inaccurate.

Another Interview for ya
http://kh2.co.uk/?page=NI/KHBBS1
to wit,
'''May I believe the person you Fight in KH2FM+ and Terra are the same person?Because they both use a similar kind of keyblade'''
Nomura:"If they really are the same person, or not is uncertain,though it doesn't matter If you think they are the same person"[[Special:Contributions/204.211.185.107|204.211.185.107]] 14:50, December 15, 2009 (UTC)
{{Maggosh|text=So it's still up in the air. We'll have to wait for BbS to find out, then.}}
{{JFHavoc|time=[[User:JFHavoc|JFHavoc]] 18:51, December 15, 2009 (UTC)|text=I think it'd be funny if at the end of Birth by Sleep a weird portal appeared and when you went in you had to fight Sora and he was like the easiest boss ever. (Considering how hard the Lingering Sentiment was ASSUMING it was Terra, Sora would have to be pretty weak).}}

Yeah, but if the battle is canonical so is Sora's victory , MEANING: he is stronger. So the battle would be the hardest and impossible to be won. [Redeemer and Destroyer]] 20:09, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

{{LOMI|Goji=An interesting thought, however unlikely: the fact that he's the easiest boss ever would be rather funny}}

{{TNE|time=00:49, December 16, 2009 (UTC)|noel=What I think : the Final Mixes always give hints of what is to come (as in Xemnas' search for Ven and Aqua suggesting that he might be the Xehanort we know, the fight with Xemnas, and ultimately, the fight with the Lingering Sentiment). We might think they're non-canon now, but they'll definitely be in a later edition. And I know there's going to be one.}}

{{Ataradesu|time=00:41, December 24, 2009 (UTC)|text=It really does make sense. Thought, it's Sora that went to "Terra", not the other way around, so it differs from Xemnas first's appearance. Since "Terra" is from the past, maybe he's just "a bonus", and a hint of what was to come in the next game (BBS) but not especially "next in the story". Terra might win against Sora, don't forget he had something Terra hadn't. His friends fighting at his sides. }}
{{TNE|time=01:20, December 24, 2009 (UTC)|noel=When I said "next in the story" I wasn't implying Terra. I was implying the hatred for Master Xehanort, which is very likely to be a central part of the story in the next instalment. Since MX's antagonism seems to linger on in the story, only through the figure of [[Xehanort]].}}

== Confirmed ==

{{Randomnessity|time=03:40, January 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=Shouldn't an admin edit this since it is confirmed to be Terra?}}
{{KrytenKoro|The details of the spoiler policy are being discussed on the forums.}}

== Birth by Sleep Spoilers ==
In the climax of Terra's scenario, Master Xehanort's Heart possesses Terra's body, much like Xehanort's Heartless does to Riku. Once the process is complete, "Terranort" casts away Terra's Keyblade and Armor. As Terranort basks in his victory and begins to leave, he is trapped by a force created Terra's reassembled Armor. The Armor then uses Terra's Keyblade to defeat Terranort. I feel that this has defined the existence of Absent Silhouettes: the consciousness of a fallen character imprinted on a personal possession.[[User:XYZach|XYZ.]] 07:14, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

==Protection==
I understand the need to admin-protect the page, but I can't even add an IL ! <big>'''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup</font>]] [[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">Agi</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !</font>]]'''</big> 06:43, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

== Sperate  ==

Shouldn't there be a seperate section for Lingering Sentiment ones a biography one a boss section? --[[User:Cococrash11|Cococrash11]] 20:34, January 12, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11
:It's not considered a true character.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 23:21, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

== LS is confusing... ==

So, let me get this straight: The Lingering Sentiment is Terra's armor and Keybalde given life by...
<br>A) Terra's Heart, 
<br>B) Terra's Soul (or an imprint of Terra), 
<br>C) Master Eraqus' Heart (just putting the thought out there :P), 
<br>D) any combination of the previous, or
<br>E) None of the above
<br>Multiple choice question posted by a confused HealerSpirit o_0 [[User:HealerSpirit|HealerSpirit]] 01:47, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

== Character or Boss ==

Seeing how the Lingering Sentiment has been proven to have some importance as a character, should there be two separate articles for his character and the boss battle? --Samoth 10:20, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
:Again, as Kryten said, '''no'''. <big>'''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup</font>]] [[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">Agi</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !</font>]]'''</big> 10:45, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

== Lingering sentiment is not Terra's soul it's Terra's will. ==

Terra's soul remains inside his body that is/was Xehanort along with Terra's heart.

in the secret ending we see Terra and Master Xehanort in a black area with a white

glow around them. This is their two seperate hearts communicating inside the heart

of our Xehanort (well at this time he could be called terranort). That black space is

where a heartstation should be.

Lingering Sentiment is terra's lingering sentiments brought to life inside his armor.

His intense feelings of hate for Xehanort and the urge to save his friends is what

drives this armor. The LS really is like an entierly new kind of being, or something

somewhat like an unversed. An unversed is the emotions of Vanitas manifesting

themselves with his darkness.

Aqua also made a LS in the secret ending but her's was to a less drastic extent.

It was only powerfull enough to hold together long enough to get Terranort out of the

dark realm. Though in doing this Aqua is dooming herself to wander through the dark

realm alone for 12 years untill she meets Ansem the wise after KH2's explosion happens.

This lingering sentiment is still alive thought and Xemnas speaks to it in the room of sleep

That is the voice Xigbar hears speaking back to Xemnas.

The soul in nothing in KH but the source of energy for the body to move to the heart's

commands. This is why a nobody can exist without a heart, because their body still

contains a soul giving it life.[[Special:Contributions/24.7.239.218|24.7.239.218]] 02:34, January 19, 2010 (UTC)random guy



You're using a lot of assumptions here. The cosmology of the Kingdom Hearts universe is that the soul/body stay together, yes. The heart is it's own seperate entity. A person's will power can be drawn from the heart, or the mind, thus creating sentient heartless and nobodies. Will power though has never been stated to be it's own driving force behind any of the machinations of the KHU. To call the LS a new being similar to the unversed is not a fact. It is a possability, yes. Untill then this is your theory.



Alos, it's not explicitly stated where and when some of the scenes in the secret video take place. Ven and Terra are shown to be alive and intact at one point in the video as well as Roxas, Xion and Axel. I could easily justify that the Living Sentiment is actually Terra's Heart residing in that armor and that the conversation in the hidden scene between Xehanort and Terra is the same as Riku's when his heart was "stained" by Xehanort's Heartless. That shows that darkness can consume a heart and possibly even replace it.[[User:Neverfate|Neverfate]] 16:58, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

{{R&D|time=17:05, January 31, 2010 (UTC)|text=It's more likely that the armor was taken by Terra's soul, and I think that until proven the contrary it should remain as soul on the article.}}

== Here's a thought ==

{{LA|Varmor=So, if the Lingering Sentiment is Terra's Soul willing Terra's armor to live, and a Nobody is a strong will willing the soul to continue living inside a body... wouldn't that make the Lingering Sentiment a special Nobody?}}

This is exactly what I thought too. The Lingering Sentiment would be a nobody since it has Terra's soul and is using his armor as its body, but it would be a special one since it was not born from someone becoming a heartless. I think that this is correct, but does anyone else have anything to say? --[[User:Random Ranaun|Random Ranaun]] 04:26, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

It has feelings and it was created because of feeling of hate angry so i would say that he is more an Unversed than a nobody--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 11:54, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah but a special Unversed because the LS doesn't stem from darkness like the Unversed of Vanitas do. He's just Unversed-like.[[Special:Contributions/69.178.248.181|69.178.248.181]] 06:01, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

== Stats? ==

{{Randomnessity|isa=Is there anywhere possible to get his remaining stats?}}

== Voice Acting ==

{{EO|time=10:13, March 5, 2010 (UTC)|text=Should we remove the bit about the Lingering Sentiment being voiced in ''BBS''? I refer to the Infobox when I say this. It never speaks, and the line before the end credits of Terra's story in ''Birth by Sleep'' are spoken by Terra himself, more like thoughts than words, hence the "echo-y" effect added to his voice. 

The Lingering Sentiment itself is just armor, hence possessing no speech whatsoever other than what was seen in ''Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix''.}}
==As a Boss==
{{EO|time=11:04, March 6, 2010 (UTC)|hooded=I understand this is in the MoS, but I don't see why we can't have a bit describing its fighting style in ''KH2FM''. It completely removes all relevance that it appeared there not to have it. I know this is in the MoS, but where it says "Enemies/Bosses", doesn't that just mean the boss pages (_____ (Boss))? We don't need redundant text, but we can at least create a short paragraph, can't we? I mean, we do it with the Organization character pages, which are the same type of thing as this, so why not?}}
{{KrytenKoro|I thought that was some sort of remerge. I guess if you want the information in the article, it would work better to combine the two sections as a general "Abilities" section, instead of "As a boss".}}

== Infobox picture ==

I know that this may have been cleared or OK'd, or whatever it is, but I heartily disagree with that picture in the Infobox, because that is not the Lingering Sentiment. It is Terra in his armour, and there is a huge factor that proves it: the character in the Infobox is holding the Earth Shaker keyblade, whereas the Lingering Sentiment never carried that keyblade, always using the Gaia Bane. It's like putting a picture of Ven in Roxas' infobox, just because they lookalike even though they're not the same character. Well, the same case applies here. I've already put the picture of the Lingering Sentiment back in the infobox a couple of times before, but apparently what I do and the reasons I give don't count.


I say that picture of Terra in his armour has to be changed back to the one with the Lingering Sentiment. [[User:EnglishJoker|EnglishJoker]] 20:10, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
:That picture has an error, too, because it has a cape, which does not appear in BBS. That's why there's a note ''right there'' next to the image saying that we ''know'' it's not fully correct, but it's the best we have for now.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:22, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

::Call me crazy, but didn't the cape appear in KH2FM? Both the cape and the Gaia Bane keyblade appear in KH2FM, and the LS never wields the Earth Shaker once in the series. That would make the pic with the cape far more accurate than the one of Terra in his armour. But, of course, since when does my opinion count? [[User:EnglishJoker|EnglishJoker]] 16:06, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
{{neumannz|tme=16:16, March 23, 2010 (UTC)|text=Lose the attitude. You're not going to convince anyone you're right unless you can argue your point calmly and logically.<br>As for the picture, the ''final'' version of the LS is the version of Terra's armor in BBS, i.e., without cape. The design from FM2 is not more correct than the one shown in the infobox, as it has been replaced and made obsolete.}}

{{Template:ST|time=14:16, May 30, 2010 (UTC)|text=How's this: Because of the design differences between bbs and fm, the ls seems to have two "forms", caped and uncaped. both wield gaia bane. the armored terra image does not qualify as a LS image because it depicts a weapon never wielded by the LS. since we do not have a proper pic of the ls without his cape and with gaia bane, the caped version will have to do because it is the only accurate image of it we have. perhaps we could place the armored terra image at the bottom with a caption tht reads "Terra's armor, which would soon become the Lingering Sentiment", or something like that. either way, the Image of the actual LS is a far more suitable image for him then Terra's Armor}}
{{EO|time=14:18, May 30, 2010 (UTC)|text=I agree, ShadowsTwilight, but would it be possible for someone to find the LS's BBS T-Render and animate it so we could get an image like this :
<gallery>
File:Rikunort.png
</gallery>

If so, that'd be perfect. I'm switching the Infobox image now.}}

And I'm told to "lose the attitude" when I say that my opinion doesn't count. Well what do you call this??? ShadowsTwilight is giving EXACTLY the same reason I did to change the picture from Terra in his armour to the REAL Lingering Sentiment, but when ''I'' said it, it didn't count. Now that SOMEONE ELSE says it, it's suddenly OK to overrule the previous illogical debate and become logical. I'm glad that the picture's finally been changed to the real thing, but honestly, this is REALLY pissing me off now. I say something, no one cares. Someone else comes along and says the same thing with the SAME reasons, there's a change. I knew it. My opinion just does not count. [[User:EnglishJoker|EnglishJoker]] 20:38, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
::Honestly? I still disagree with this just as much as ever. I just have more important things to do right now.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 01:50, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
:::Very well, but just don't replace the Infobox picture of Roxas with a picture of Ventus just because they lookalike. [[User:EnglishJoker|EnglishJoker]] 14:23, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
::...we gave our reasoning over and over. Don't attack strawmen.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 16:44, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
::That depends on the hassle and headache the "strawmen" have caused over a silly picture. [[User:EnglishJoker|EnglishJoker]] 15:09, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

{{Maggosh|text=Um...ENX? Didn't you refuse to use a render of Ansem because it used the same method? :/}}

== "Canonicity" trivia ==

Although the game does not ''unlock'' the battle until the save file has a "I beat Xemnas!" sticker on it, the battle itself is still played ''before the end of the game'' - you can beat the LS, and then go beat Xemnas. I think this should be interpreted more like a Prince of Persia type thing - the first run through is, "Here's the basic story," and then the return to the game and fight with the LS is, "But here's what REALLY happened."[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 16:53, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

== Quote ==

I think the Lingering Sentiment quote is wrong. Various subs say that the LS says "Aqua...Ven...Someday, I'll definitely..." [[User:Vaddie|Vaddie]] 14:06, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

== "Thoughts" ==

I haven't seen the original japanese, but the word for "soul" in Japanese can be translated as "thoughts", as well as the word for "heart" (though I doubt Lissar would have missed that interpretation). I think we should check this before saying it isn't his soul or his heart.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 04:15, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

== Here's a thought... ==

{{LA|Vtext=The Lingering Sentiment was created when Terra's soul willed a body to live... his armor.

Sound familiar?

That is how Nobodies are "born", when their strong soul wills their body to continue living... Could this mean the Lingering Sentiment is a Nobody?

Also, the image on the front is NOT the Lingering Sentiment. It is Terra in his armor holding his Keyblade. The correct image was the KHII FM + version.}}

{{Xabryn|text=We're not sure if it is Terra's soul or Terra's thoughts and feeling that were lost, but if it is the soul yes, I think that it should be special sort of Nobody.}}

== True or False? ==

Alright, just clearing this up. I'm a little lost here. The LS is just Terra's armor, right? Not him himself?[[User:Innosense|Innosense]] 21:41, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
{{LA|Vtext=Correct. The Lingering Sentiment is just an empty suit of armor containing Terra's Lingering memories of his friends, and his hatred of Xehanort. Terra's real body is- *shot*

(Sorry, no BBS spoilers...)}}

== Theme Music ==

Should we add his boss music? "Rage Awakened"? Since he's kinda the only one to have it... [[Special:Contributions/24.205.43.42|24.205.43.42]] 04:47, May 8, 2010 (UTC)
Actually, Terranort at the end of BbS uses it against LS. [[User:Gr8champ|Gr8champ]] 06:32, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

== wait a minute... ==
{{ST|time=14:56, June 16, 2010 (UTC)|text=*SPOILERS* what happened to the lingering sentiment after it's battle with xehanort? upon returning to the mysterious tower mickey said there was no sign of terra anywhere, indicating that the armor disappeared, so again waht happened to the sentiment? *SPOILERS END*}}
:It stays at the Keyblade Graveyard until Sora fights it in KHIIFM. I am not sure, but the Keyblade Graveyard seems to have become inaccessible after the destruction the X-Blade. (Sora needed a mysterious portal at Disney Castle to get there, if I recall)--[[User:Otherarrow|Otherarrow]] 15:20, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

== Tetsuya Nomura Confirms as Canon ==
''The new secret boss will be like how Lingering Sentiment was to KH2FM. You will think it's impossible that that can happen at that time of the story, but it actually happens.''

-Tetsuya Nomura, taken from Degenki Magazine.

http://www.ff-reunion.net/kh/2010/06/25/khbbs_dengeki_nomura_interview
--[[User:XYZach|ΧƳƵach.]] 07:14, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, hasn't the LS been "confirmed as canon" since BBS' release? You know, when we see his creation and ''play as him'' to fight Xehanort?{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}07:31, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

If that wasn't enough, here it is from Nomura's mouth. Just sayin.--[[User:XYZach|ΧƳƵach.]] 19:29, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Well, whether the boss is canon and whether the fight is are different things

Good point.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}04:27, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
:This is saying that the LS and the new Unknown fights are canon.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:02, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

Im sorry but I don't see that said at all. It says that LS/the new Unknown exist and are "canon" but whether Sora or Aqua actually fought them is a different issue entirely.[[Special:Contributions/204.211.185.107|204.211.185.107]] 15:54, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
:....what. It explicitly says "You think it's impossible that it can happen at that point in the story, '''but it happens'''". It even mentions the Lingering Sentiment '''in relation to KH2'''.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:23, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

== Rename? ==

Does he get renamed in the english version of BBS? someone must know by now.--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 16:23, September 6, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman
{{Maggosh|nathan=<nowiki>*</nowiki>smacks the wall* No, he does not.}}
::Actually, they changed it to "lingering spirit".[[Special:Contributions/75.164.116.185|75.164.116.185]] 09:15, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
{{Maggosh|nathan=Proof?}}

I think their basing it off the name of Vanitas in the guide, which directly contradicts the name in the report. Though a thought occurs, could anyone go to Terra's story after beating it and look in his report? Because there might be an entry on LS or even Xehanort himself in there. (I can't help as I am currently without my psp.)[[Special:Contributions/204.211.185.107|204.211.185.107]] 13:28, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

:Considering how the official name for {{Nihongo|"Vanitas's Sentiment"|ヴァニタスの思念|Vanitasu no Shinen}} is the "[[Vanitas Remnant]]", I am in favor of renaming the {{Nihongo|Lingering Sentiment|留まりし思念|Todomarishi Shinen}} the "Lingering Remnant". Granted that both are physical manifestations of what remains of their powerful thoughts and feelings, we could even call it the "Terra Remnant", though since the phrase "留まりし思念" was coined by Tetsuya Nomura himself, I reason that's closer to being an official name than a fan-given name. --[[User:Immblueversion|Immblueversion]] 23:58, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

{{Maggosh|nathan=But it's still both fan-given and speculation. Until there's an official translation in a future game, it stays.}}

:::IN the guide it specifically calls Vcanitas remnant as his "lingering spirit". Still is their anything that calls it lingering sentiment anywhere? i dont remember, if it's in the final mix of kh2 that information can change considering it never released in the US.[[User:Aqua00000|Aqua00000]] 02:10, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

All right sorry, im not trying to start an argument i just wanted to know if he was called something different or not.--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 13:56, September 21, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman

== Merge with Terra ==

I've been beginning to wonder, since the Lingering Sentiment is the lost mind of Terra within Terra's armor, has exactly the same fighting style and thus is the main character of the final battle of Terra's story in ''BBS'', Terra and the Lingering Sentiment are in fact the same person, not like, for instance, Braig and Xigbar, who are different. Because of this, I personally think the Lingering Sentiment article should be merged with that of Terra, because the LS's story is the same as Terra's. The story section is small enough as it is, and most of the other stuff in other sections is almost the same as on Terra's page.

I think it ought to be merged. Let's put it to a vote. [[User:EnglishJoker|EnglishJoker]] 00:12, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

To merge this with Terra would be the same thing as merging Vanitas Remnant with Vanitas. I don't think it should be merged at all. And besides, doesn't the LS have it's own journal entry? [[File:Way to the Dawn KHII.png|20px]]'''<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User:Chitalian8|<span style="color:#C00000;">Chitalian</span>]][[User talk:Chitalian8|<span style="color:3300FF;">8</span>]]</span>'''[[file:Wayward Wind KHBBS.png|20px]] 00:15, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

LS have its own entry in KHIIFM+ but I don't know about BbS. Anndd... I don't think it's the same with Vanitas-Vantis Remnant case since LS is canon character :/ {{User:17master/Sign}}

I think that because It's terra's armor, not a part of Terra himself, that makes it a separate being from Terra, so i really don't think a merge is all that necessary--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 00:27, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
:...it is actually more different from Terra than Braig is from Xigbar. It is his soul, and his clothes, while Xigbar is Braig's soul, body, (and clothes). Nomura hinted almost explicitly that the Sentiment was essentially Terra's Nobody.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 02:59, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

::Psst, KrytenKoro, if the Sentiment is Terra's Nobody, then where's his Heartless? O.O --Never fear ... [[User:Superdog1123| Superdog]] is here! <sup>[[User talk: Superdog1123| Yipee! :D]]</sup> 04:21, November 22, 2010 (UTC)Superdog1123

The Sentiment is not Terra's Nobody, it's his soul. His Nobody is Xemnas. His Heartless is Ansem, Seeker of Darkness.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 04:23, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Y'alls word against Nomura's. The LS is Terra's Nobody by technicality, in the sense that it possesses the components that make up a Nobody, i.e. a body (the armor) and a motivating source (Terra's mind), it's not a normal Nobody, or even a literal Nobody, but it is essentially a Nobody because it's general construct resembles a Nobody--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 04:35, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

So, I guess the LS is what you called a "Special Nobody" or not?--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 04:37, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

I guess so--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 05:35, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Okay, then!--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 05:45, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

== Will's Cage ==

The cage produced by the Lingering Sentiment in its final battle is named "Will's Cage"[http://i52.tinypic.com/44501.jpg]. The kanji used for "Will" is ''shinen'', the same word used for the "Sentiment" in "Lingering Sentiment". It seems pretty clear that the cage is literally the sentiment's cage, so I propose we move this article to "Lingering Will".[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 16:15, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Lingering Will? What is that? {{User:17master/Sign}}

What Kryten is proposing is that Lingering Will is the English name for the Lingering Sentiment, when he mentioned "will" and "sentiment" having the same kanji, he's implying that Will's Cage uses the word Will as a short version of the Lingering Will, labeling it as a cage that it made--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 16:27, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

For example: suppose that Beast was not named in the English script or journal, but that we knew that the English-named "Beast's Castle" was his castle anyway, and that the katakana in "Beast" matched the Japanese name of the character. We would easily say that the character's name was "Beast".[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 16:35, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
:No. I like Sentiment better. Hell, even Remnant. [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 16:29, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
I agree with maggosh, Sentiment sounds a lot better. Lingering Will sounds like a... form-less ghost or something :/ Oh, and thanks for the explanation, ST :D {{User:17master/Sign}} 
:"Remnant" and "Sentiment" aren't even that accurate as translations of the kanji, which is most literally "Thought" (Lingering Thoughts, Vanitas's Thoughts, etc.) Sentiment also has a connotation of tenderness in English, which is not the meaning intended by the kanji (pretty much "mind-bits"). Furthermore, "Lingering Will" is a phrase actually used in English, rather than syfy Engrish like "Lingering Sentiment". Even if the adjective bit of this isn't ironed down dub-wise, this translation is at least closer to an accurate name.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 16:35, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
:...But Sentiment just sounds so cool D: Besides isn't the name "Lingering Sentiment" used by many unofficial translators? Not that I doubt you or anything, but they're more experienced in this kind of stuff, aren't they? :/ {{User:17master/Sign}}

While i agree with 17, i'll have to admit Kryten makes a compelling argument--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 16:58, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

{{neumannz|time=17:57, November 30, 2010 (UTC)|text=Don't talk about what everyone else does unless you know exactly who said it first and why. We do not bend to peer pressure.

Honestly, I'm finding "Lingering Will" to be a pretty accurate description, at least as much as "Lingering Sentiment" is. I could get used to it.}}

{{Chihuahuaman|time=23:28, December 21, 2010 (UTC)|text=I agree. zit would make more sense to move it to a more acurate name then to keep the inacurate name.}}

{{Dark-EnigmaXIII|time=22:22, December 25, 2010 (UTC)|text2=So, ummm... are we moving this or not? Personally, I like Lingering Sentiment better, but since this is about acuracy in the translation, I think it shoul be Lingering Will}}

{{ErryTalk|time=17:45, January 5, 2011 (UTC)|saix=I agree with moving it to Lingering Will.}}
:If there are no objections by tomorrow, I'm going to move it, and we can start correcting it across the wiki.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:02, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

:::Three days. So, uh......what's the delay? I mean, I remove the merging tag and its put back because there's still a discussion, which now seems to have finished. If it's not changed by tomorrow, I'm removing the tag. [[User:EnglishJoker|EnglishJoker]] 21:02, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

Sure, because the decision falls to you, huh?  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 00:42, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

:No, not because the decision falls to me. Someone gives a deadline to move the page, and by the time the deadline passes, nothing's been done, so in that case, it's best to give a little reminder which looks like a warning. I wasn't really going to take it off. It was just to get everyone's attention to this subject again. [[User:EnglishJoker|EnglishJoker]] 12:31, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

There were no objections to what Kryten said for several days. The article ''should'' have been moved by now. EnglishJoker just really wants the move tag gone. That said, don't remove the tag until ''after'' the page has been moved or it was decided to stay the same.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}00:52, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

No No No.Bull shit.This artical name should stay the Lingering Sentiment.--[[User:The Dark Master|Master]]

Why? Give some sources and reasons as to why it should have an un-official name other than "it sounds cooler". This discussion was started on November 30th and you're only now raising issues?{{USer:LapisScarab/Sig}}02:56, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

Well it has been said that the Lingering Sentiment was created through Terra's feelings and emotion which is what Sentiment refers to.So refreing to it as the Lingering Sentiment would be best as to describe its existence.--[[User:The Dark Master]]
:The literal meaning does not matter in this case; when we do not have official confirmation of a term, we have to translate the Japanese term to the best of our ability. Since we now have English justification that the subject of this article is called "Lingering Will", and that the location in ''Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep'' matches this name in the North American version, we can easily call it correct. Similarly, if Nomura created a new Heartless based on a flame, has fires for arms, creates blazing pools as it walks, uses fire-based attacks, and is yet called "Blizzard Heart" or something non-fire based, we would name it Blizzard Heart on the wiki, NOT something based on its meaning. Simply put, translation before meaning. --{{User:DoorToNothing/Sig}} 03:13, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

Terra-Xehanort directly refers to the armor as containing Terra's mind ("Why does your mind resist"), and "Lingering Will" is a better translation.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}03:13, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

== Canon? ==

I was just wondering... whenever Sora encountered the Lingering Sentiment, is that canon, or was irrevelant to the story?--[[User:KRoNoS|KRoNoS]] 18:22, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure but I am assuming it is canon as he mentions Terra, Aqua and Ventus as they are all connected to Sora, it was probably the prelude to both Re:coded and Birth by Sleep. {{User:Erry/Sig4}} 18:59, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

:It ''is'' canon. Tetsuya Nomura said it in an interview about the Mysterious Figure in BBS. They both appear in scenes that don't seem canon, yet they are. It's how Terra is connected to Sora. [[User:EnglishJoker|EnglishJoker]] 18:50, January 6, 2011 (UTC)

== Will's Voice ==

In the trivia it says that "At the end of Terra's scenario in Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep, the Lingering Will briefly talks with Terra's voice, yet in Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix, it appears to communicate with Sora by using metallic sounds, which Sora, Donald, and Goofy understand perfectly well. This discrepancy is not explained." I'd think the reason would be that square didn't hire a voice actor for Terra at the time of KHIIFM, just thought i'd put that out there. Xavnirs

:It used to say that, but it was deleted as speculation (BS, I know). It's obvious it's because the voice actors hadn't yet been cast. [[User:EnglishJoker|EnglishJoker]] 10:32, January 15, 2011 (UTC)
::What are you talking about? Read the article before you start bitching. I only removed the last part about how the "discrepency is not explained". Not because it's speculation, in fact it's technically true from an in-game perspective, but because it was bad writing. It's an awkward, accusatory tone to use and, in real-world terms, is easily explained as Xavnirs said. {{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}19:29, January 15, 2011 (UTC)


Its a secret boss in KHIIFM, not to mention it was terra's lost heart not the Lingering Will's voice calling out, the Lingering Will is the left behind feelings and regrets of Terra.--[[User:Lugiarules100|Lugiarules100]] 17:57, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

i'm sorry if i started any arguments, i was just explaining the meaning of the discrepancy if square hadn't already explained it(which they didn't). Xavnirs 13:04, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

:You didn't start an agrument, and in fact you inspired a change in the Trivia piece you brought up. Its just a pet peeve of mine when people make assumptions without reading what they're talking about.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}13:23, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

== What's a harken? ==

I saw that the Lingering Will can turn the Ends of the Earth into a "harken-like weapon". One question: What the heck is a harken? If this is a typo, fix it, please--otherwise, I think a link to a definition would be appreciated.[[User:FerreTrip |<span style="color:tan;"><b>FT</b></span>]] 05:37, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
:It's the german word for "Hook". I don't know why they wouldn't just say "hook".{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 10:55, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
==Sentiment, not "Will"==
{{EO|time=16:16, 11 April 2011 (EDT)|hooded=I've thought about it for quite some time, and I'm still against calling this guy the "Lingering Will", as well as it having a voice actor. Here is all my logic/evidence supporting why I think we should remove its listed VA's and change its name back to the Japanese one:

*Will's Cage, first of all, is a name discovered via hacking, '''NOT''' official gameplay, hence it is not official and should not be considered as such (it's the same case as the two Ultima Weapon palette swaps discovered in the coding of ''Kingdom Hearts II''). Otherwise, this is '''PURE SPECULATION''' (teh ebil...)!!! Also, this name is just a lame attempt at being creative/mystical. It is not referring to Terra's dispatched armor in terms of possession. While the armor DID surround Terranort with a force field of some sort, which would technically mean the armor owned it, we must remember that it is (in the Japanese version), the last of Terra's emotions/thoughts, which are triggered by the brain. Will is another thing involved with the brain, but it ultimately controls the thoughts and emotions of a person. If anything, TERRA is the Will from "Will's Cage", not the armor, which are Terra's thoughts and emotions (Will, by definition, is the faculty of conscious and especially of deliberate action; the power of control the mind has over its own actions. The Lingering Sentiment's actions aren't its own, but '''TERRA''''s!). As you can see, there is NO similarity between the meanings of these two names from the Japanese-"English" transitition, as is normally the case. To further support this claim, Terranort says "So why does your mind resist!?" to the armor. '''MIND''', people! That's the key term! In the Japanese version of ''Birth by Sleep'', the Lingering Sentiment is Terra's remaining thoughts and emotions, and that was my point of mentioning how both are triggered by the brain, a synonym of which is the '''MIND''' (Terranort's quote was originally used in an attempt to prove that the name change should stay, and the reason why it was used to was purely '''OPINIONATED'''!!!)! Also, "Sentiment" is a synonym for "Emotion". Through this evaluation, it is obvious that '''TERRA''' is the will of Will's Cage, and the armor is the thoughts/emotion, like in the Japanese version (Japanese canon seems to trump English canon about the armor, hence I think its name should be reverted). Will controls thoughts and emotion; The last of Terra controls his dispatched armor.
*The Lingering Sentiment '''DOES NOT''' have a voice actor. One of any film or voice actor-using game's "increase the drama" tools is the ability to hint at the presence of a deceased person who speaks to a surviving character by using the dead person's voice while adding an echo-effect. This is done with Terra's voice at the end of both the English '''AND''' Japanese version of ''Birth by Sleep''. This is symbollic of Terra's fading presence, how it is one of his last thoughts and promises regarding Ventus and Aqua. These words are '''NOT''' coming from the Lingering Sentiment, but from Terra himself. This, which I've tried to prove to the Wiki community '''COUNTLESS''' times, is why the Lingering Sentiment is totally silent in ''Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix'', save for the metallic "whoosh" sounds it makes when it speaks. If the Lingering Sentiment had a voice actor, you'd hear "Hee-yah!" and "Rah!" coming from inside the armor during the battle with Terranort. Also (and this is probably the most crucial detail that erases any counter-speculation on my part), the Lingering Sentiment is not named or referred to specifically '''AT ALL''' during the game's credits in the English or Japanese versions!


It is for these reasons that I feel the "Lingering Will" should remain known on the Wiki as the "Lingering Sentiment" and its VA's should be removed from the character template.}}

{{Chitalian8|time=17:42, 11 April 2011 (EDT)|talk= I can't really compete with that wall-o'-text, but it's not like hacking is digging up false info, rather uncovering info that the developers already had in the game. Also, the kanji used in the "Will" in "Will's Cage" is ''shinen'', same as the Japanese for Sentiment. Also, [http://www.khwiki.net/Talk:Lingering_Will#Will.27s_Cage the Sentiment/Will thing was discussed earlier].}}
{{EO|time=18:08, 11 April 2011 (EDT)|talktext=I'm willing to repeat discussions as often as I have to in order to prove my point. The point I was trying to make, Chitalian and any who read this in the future, is that hacking is NOT a good source for official material, as what it produces is ultimately non-canon. It's finding sub-official material, and that's it. We, as a Wiki, should only consider what is in-game official, NOT what is discovered via coding. Otherwise, you may as well create an article on the Jungle Book world, as well as the Chamber of Waking, Destiny Islands, and Ventus's Room areas that were ALSO discovered through hacking. My point is this is not technically official material. Nomura and even the ''Ultimania'' never said "This area is called Will's Cage." Hence it is not technically canon/official. There is also more canon supporting the Japanese name rather than the English one, which was an INFERENCE and ASSUMPTION only, regardless of coincidence with kanji. No source, be it the game, Nomura, et cetera EVER calls the Lingering Sentiment by another name, and no source EVER refers to that force field-enclosed area of the Keyblade Graveyard "Will's Cage".

Even so, you neglected to address your opinion about what we should do about the voice acting bit...}}

{{AlVan|time18:35, 11 April 2011 (EDT)|text=It's not that big a deal. It's just a title.}}

{{Chitalian8|time=18:58, 11 April 2011 (EDT)|text= I don't have much to argue about regarding the voice actor thing. But when was Sentiment ever officially used? Will is much closer to what ''shinen'' means than Sentiment, ''shinen'' most closely meaning "thoughts".}}

{{Asif|sho=Here we go again...

ENX, going by what you're saying about not using hacks, I believe the most fitting name for it would be the Lingering Remnant.  Before you yell at me for being ridiculous, just hear me out.

The only other "sentiment/will/remnant" seen so far is the Vanitas Remnant.  In Japanese, the word "shinen" is used in the place of "remnant", as in "The Shinen (thoughts) of Vanitas".  It is also used in the Japanese Lingering Will/Sentiment/Remnant's name, as in "The Lingering Shinen (thoughts)".  Seeing as how the word "shinen" was translated to "remnant" in Birth by Sleep, the safest name for the Lingering Sentiment/Will/Remnant is the Lingering Remnant.  It is based off of an official translation, did not involve any hacking of the game, and is, in my humble opinion, as "official" as it gets until an official English name is released.

I don't quite know about the VA part, although I interpreted Terra's voice at the end to be the feelings inside the Lingering Remnant talking, expressing his desire to set things right.  Although what you said about dead people speaking in movies is extremely valid, that is just how I interpreted the scene.  I also think the reason the Lingering Remnant's voice sounds metallic in KHIIFM is that a seiyyu (sorry if I misspelled that) had simply not been cast yet, similarly to Xemnas in KHFM. That is why I think the Lingering Remnant's VAs should be listed.

Thanks for listening to my five cents.}}
{{TNE|time=20:04, 11 April 2011 (EDT)|blahtext=In all honesty, if they came up with VAs for the Absent Silhouettes, they could've easily come up with one for Terra's armour. Everything sounded so fluid, except for Terra's armour... There was an interval of one year... Chances are that it was intended, then, rather than because of SE's failure to find a ''seiyuu''.

And on a side note (can't believe I'm veering off at this time, but I need to get my head back...), doesn't hacked content fall under Removed Content most of the time? This time, it isn't removed — it is a name...

I assume that the English version doesn't state what this armour's name actually is (and I might be playing it soon... who knows?), so I'll go with As if's suggestion of "remnant" as the most accurate translation of ''shinen''. Thoughts and will are two different things.}}

{{Chitalian8|time=21:26, 11 April 2011 (EDT)|happy= Yeah, I agree with Lingering Remnant (why didn't I think of that?).}}

{{ErryTalk|time=22:13, 11 April 2011 (EDT)|kk=The name was found via hacking, but the area itself is called Will's Cage and it shows up in the end boss fight... I don't see it not being official material, anything that is included in the game at start is official material. Only when, and ONLY when it is not included at the start it is unofficial material, such as the Jungle Book world, it was all hidden away, and [[Removed content in the Kingdom Hearts series#The Jungle Book World|we do have an article about that]]. I think it's fine as it is.}}
{{LA|Vtext=We've always considered content viewed through hacks "canon", I believe. If it wasn't featured in the game at all, then it's removed content. If it's the name of a map that's only viewable through hacks, it's still canon, we just never got the opportunity during the game to see it. We're hosting too much stuff pulled from hacks to say that none of it should be used. That'd be urinating on Shard and the other editor-hackors by saying that all the work they've done was for nothing.

As for the name itself, there's nothing wrong with "Lingering Will". While it does come from a rather vague source, it works better than "Sentiment", which is, though "Lingering Sentiment" rolls nicely off the tongue, an ass-pull on translator's parts. Personally, I believe "Lingering Remnant" would work best in this scenario. At least it's a confirmed translation of ''shinen''.

But in all seriousness, it's a name. Not really worth a speech, IMO.}}
{{neumannz|time=23:47, 11 April 2011 (EDT)
|text=<big><big>EDIT CONFLICT</big></big>

OK, first off, there's no reason not to consider Will's Cage as an official name. It was inserted, by the developers, as part of the game, so unless and until it is CONTRADICTED by other sources, that is the name we should accept as canon. (We do, in fact, cover some things that are only in the code, and not just the removed content, neither.)

I'm not sure what your next point is. Obviously the "will" is Terra's. The armor is animated by Terra's will. The LW is an extension of Terra. Where are you going with this? Also, thoughts and emotion are not the same thing. If anything, "will" is closer to "thoughts" and "mind", and "sentiment" is closer to "emotion". (See [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Lake_guardians Mesprit vs. Azelf])

And why do you think there are two different forces here? Why is the power behind the creation of the Will's Cage different than the power that is animating the armor? The related (Japanese) names and—rather blatant—concurrance would indicate that they are the same power, which would be the ''shinen''.

I don't know what makes "Sentiment" less speculative than "Will". It's just as fan-made, and less supported by in-game materials.

I would agree that it doesn't have a voice actor, though. I'm not sure whether to say it has no voice at all, considering that, after all, Xemnas didn't have a voice actor in KHFM, even though we '''''know''''' he has a voice. The metalic "voice" could simply be a dramatic device, like Xemnas's <span style="font-family:Algerian; background:black"><big>OMINOUS NOISES</big></span>, and not actually indicative of whether the LW has its own voice or not, let alone whether it would sound like Terra.

Honestly, I think the strongest argument for going back to "Sentiment" is because "Lingering Sentiment" has a much cooler and more mystical sound to it than "Lingering Will".

In conclusion, you should organize and space out your arguments better, so that we can read them, and you should be much less demagogic in your arguments, because it makes you sound like a crazy person (or a pundit... *cough*Glenn Beck*cough*) and people will have a harder time taking you seriously.

P.S. I'm not sure if I really like "Lingering Remnant" as an alternative, although I do understand the reasoning behind it and note that it is a valid argument.}}
{{DTN|time=00:11, 12 April 2011 (EDT)|text=Like many things, hacking is a tool that is only justifiable and useful to a certain extent. We use hacking to find two types of information--''hidden'' and ''removed''. Obviously stuff like the Jungle Book world and the Pleakley model were completely removed from the game and those are just remnants of what remains. However, some information isn't necessarily removed content, but rather material that we cannot view ''without'' hacking. I think the area "Will's Cage" is one of those areas, since a title of this location had to be input to the game in its coding. It isn't removed because (1) the location is present in-game and (2) the title of the place is identifiable with a tool that allows us to see it. We need not go through extensive files and to the bottom of listings to find small snippets of coding and items that were not meant to be in the game to find "Will's Cage."

As far as to say anything about "Lingering Remnant", I absolutely abhor that. From what we've seen in the past, the nature and behavior of a Remnant is nothing more than a violent persona with no signs of independent thoughts or motives... other than, of course, to create Sora Pudding out of our Keyblade-bearing protagonist. The Lingering ''Will'' shows that it has cohesive, independent thoughts and motives canonically, even when it remains outside of a weapon-marked portal for years in the Keyblade Graveyard. That's what I've got to say on the matter.}}