Editing Talk:Kingdom Hearts

This could really use a better name... any ideas?  '''''[[User:Scottch|<font color=#00cccc>Scott]]</font>[[User talk:Scottch|<font color=#ff9900>ch]]'''''</font> 17:36, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm...I have no problems with it, but perhaps "Kingdom Hearts (dominion)"?[[User:DannyP|DannyP]] 20:05, 17 February 2007 (UTC)DannyP
*What about Kingdom Hearts (heart)?  '''''[[User:Scottch|<font color=#00cccc>Scott]]</font>[[User talk:Scottch|<font color=#ff9900>ch]]'''''</font> 01:07, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
::Dunno, that seems a little awkward. Maybe we should just stick with the original, or call it "Kingdom Hearts (object)"?

{{TalkTextTest2
|image= Jiminy-Normal-Live.gif
|imagesize=70px
|color=#6B8E23
|color2=#9ACD32
|textcolor=black
|textcolor2=black
|line=black
|fonttype= Times New Roman
|name=Sacul097
|nick= Sacul097
|sig= Don’t talk to me about Mondays… or carrots
|time= All statements are wrong... including this one 
|text=I don't object to calling it an object (yay bad wordplay) because that fit's it much better than the word world --[[User:Sacul097|Sacul097]] 05:44, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
}}<noinclude>
</noinclude>


== A Question ==
Umm, this may sound stupid, but is the Kingdom Hearts over The World That Never Was the same as the Heart of All Worlds. Or maybe it confuse everyone to say that there are actually two Kingdom Hearts. . . es, one the Heart of All Worlds and one created by the Nobodies by gathering hearts from Heartless? --A Heart of Balance 20:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

== Door to... ==

I'm pretty sure the actual name for the door is the Door to Darkness, but it's also worth mentioning that it leads to Kingdom Hearts.  how about putting in both as a compromise?  '''''[[User:Scottch|<span style="color:#00cccc">Scott</span>]][[User talk:Scottch|<span style="color:#ff9900">ch</span>]]''''' 23:18, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
==Hitari's Reply to this==
Sorry but that doesnt make sense. Kingdom hearts wouldn't become yellow just because someone's eyes changed. The moon is the exact color as kingdom hearts. This is why someone professional should be handling the articles in wiki's. Also this is the reason now days why why wiki's cant be trusted.

Now wouldn't that be a great twist. Kingdom hearts changes color because Terra's eyes changes color. Thats total BS. Im sure the human brain's capacity allows logic to go at least a little further than that.


I thimk they meant that Terra's Eyes seemed to change because they reflected kingdom hearts; like a mirror

{{TalkTextTest2
|image= Jiminy-Surprised-Live.gif
|imagesize=70px
|color=#6B8E23
|color2=#9ACD32
|textcolor=black
|textcolor2=black
|line=black
|fonttype= Times New Roman
|name=Sacul097
|nick= Sacul097
|sig= Don’t talk to me about Mondays… or carrots
|time= All statements are wrong... including this one 
|text=That also wouldn't make sense. The reflection of something blue is generally not yellow.--[[User:Sacul097|Sacul097]] 03:04, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
}}

{{TNE|time=06:09, October 6, 2009 (UTC)|text=The '''negative''' of dark blue is yellow ! I've tried it countless times. So what would this suggest ?}}

{{TalkTextTest2
|image= Jiminy-Normal-Live.gif
|imagesize=70px
|color=#6B8E23
|color2=#9ACD32
|textcolor=black
|textcolor2=black
|line=black
|fonttype= Times New Roman
|name=Sacul097
|nick= Sacul097
|sig= Don’t talk to me about Mondays… or carrots
|time= All statements are wrong... including this one 
|text=I don't know what it would suggest for Terra's eyes, but maybe the kingdom hearts that Master Xenahort summoned was a sort of anti-kingdom hearts. Because in KHII the kingdom hearts that we see is yellow. I think terra's eyes changed color because he was about to use darkness.--[[User:Sacul097|Sacul097]] 18:24, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
}}<noinclude>
</noinclude>

==Possible Connection to BBS==
{{TNE|attntext=Has anyone forgotten to put this bit of info from the trailers ? Master Xehanort is '''seeking''' Kingdom Hearts ? We can't just stop at the shiny blue heart in the sky, ''n'est-ce pas'' ?}} 
I´ve got a question:Everbody says that the heartless are seeking Kingdom hearts.But Kingdom Hearts is in the 
darkness so they have to know where it is.Given that heartless can feel hearts and kingdom hearts is like the biggest heart in existence why would they seek it?They just have to know where it is.I am also pretty sure that the heartless were
the ones who created Kingdom Hearts since its made out of Hearts wich were stolen by Heartless.
{{TNE|text=Nomura says that KH is the lifeforce surrounding life in the Kingdom Hearts universe. So it can't possibly have been created by the Heartless.

And I was talking about Master Xehanort = a full-blooded human being, not a Heartless}}

For all we know.[[Special:Contributions/203.105.95.93|203.105.95.93]] 12:45, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

{{TalkTextTest2
|image= Jiminy-Normal-Live.gif
|imagesize=70px
|color=#6B8E23
|color2=#9ACD32
|textcolor=black
|textcolor2=black
|line=black
|fonttype= Times New Roman
|name=Sacul097
|nick= Sacul097
|sig= Don’t talk to me about Mondays… or carrots
|time= All statements are wrong... including this one 
|text=Actually it says in one of the ansem reports (dunno if it was the secret ones or not) that kingdom hearts was created by the hearts taken by the heartless.--[[User:Sacul097|Sacul097]] 00:52, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
}}<noinclude>
</noinclude>

{{TNE|time=02:23, October 6, 2009 (UTC)|blahtext=Problem is, that was an artificial KH created by Xemnas. We're talking about this blue heart, as well as the original Kingdom Hearts. If the case is the same for both, then we also will need to find out how Xemnas deviated the path of those lost hearts.}}

{{TalkTextTest2
|image= Jiminy-Very_Angry.jpg
|imagesize=70px
|color=#6B8E23
|color2=#9ACD32
|textcolor=black
|textcolor2=black
|line=black
|fonttype= Times New Roman
|name=Sacul097
|nick= Sacul097
|sig= Don’t talk to me about Mondays… or carrots
|time= All statements are wrong... including this one 
|text=You're right.--[[User:Sacul097|Sacul097]] 03:29, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
}}<noinclude>
</noinclude>

== Blue Heart? ==

Quoth Trivia section:
"In Kingdom Hearts II, the first battle with Armored Xemnas takes place inside Kingdom Hearts, when Xemnas had absorbed its power and turned Kingdom Hearts into a replica of The World That Never Was. During the fight, after the Altar of Naught is crumbling a large blue heart can be seen. "

Can we get picture proof of this?  I just watched the cutscenes and boss fights, and saw no blue heart anywhere.  This could be a good link between KHII and BbS, or pure BS.  I think it should be further looked into by those with capable hands here on this wikia.[[Special:Contributions/203.105.95.93|203.105.95.93]] 12:45, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

{{Template:Anthony8123
|text=I also have not seen any of these blue hearts, only in BBS.
}}

I know that at one point, Riku and Sora look off into the distance and see a blue something, sparkling and all.  Is that what they could be talking about?[[Special:Contributions/99.174.166.189|99.174.166.189]] 18:04, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

{{Template:Brago-77|text=That was some cocoon like structure for Xemnas's huge dragon thing, and clearly not a heart shape at all. Somebody was just making up BS.}}

==NOT Really Kingdom Hearts==

For one thing, there's no chance that we were really anywhere near the REAL Kingdom Hearts in either final boss battles of I or II. For one thing, it was all dark inside Kingdom Hearts during Xehnanort's battle and then it's all light and stuff against Xemnas. They CAN'T be the real Kingdom Hearts, but alternate dimensions. --[[User:Narutoheroes12|Narutoheroes12]] 00:11, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
:So, you're basing your assumptions on what Kingdom Hearts looks like on what, then?[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 03:15, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
Let's see. Kingdom Hearts is a sort of driving force, as Nomura puts it.
:In the first place, can it be seen ?
:Is what Xehanort/Xemnas calls "Kingdom Hearts" actually a man-made replica of a greater power ? '''Answer :''' Probably yes, because if (as Xemnas puts it) "Oh no, my Kingdom Hearts is in ruins", and if Kingdom Hearts is a lifeforce, then all would be immediately destroyed as there is no lifeforce to govern all things. Or, at least, that's how I'm seeing it.
:What ARE those heart-shaped things in the sky from BBS to KHII, then ? '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 03:51, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
::I'm not exactly sure where you're getting that Kingdom Hearts is just a driving force. The games describe it pretty literally as a unified construct of lost worlds and lost hearts. Xemnas and Xehanort's Kingdom Hearts may be artificial, but they still are ''a'' "Kingdom Hearts". Based on the Door to Darkness mythology and the extra-significance of the Princesses of Heart, added to the fact that Xehanort's Heartless didn't know that that last door would destroy him, it's unlikely that it was a construct (at least, by humans), so that's probably the real Kingdom Hearts. No, we're not within the Kingdom Hearts in KH1, but no-one ever claims that we are - we're outside of it, the Darksides are inside.
::As for being within it in KHII - We went in a door, but was that actually a door to Kingdom Hearts? Or just the last door, like the one to the Destiny Islands fragments? It would seem likely that we are within it in the final final battle, as it's supposed to be as close to darkness as possible, but seems like it is based on Xemnas's nothingness.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 04:35, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I think I'm lost. We were outside the real KH in the first game, but we weren't in the second game, right ? '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 04:39, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
:Correct. In KH we fight outside the door to Kingdom Hearts (the heart of all worlds). Then in KHII we fight inside Xemnas's Kingdom Hearts (a construct made of the neumerous hearts freed by the Keyblade). That should be accurate. [[User:Brago-77|Brago-77]] 05:08, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
Okay, so I still need the response to the other question : what were those heart-shaped things in the sky in BBS and KHII ? '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 05:28, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
:Well I have no idea what that big blue heart is in BBS, and nobody else really does either for that matter. As for the other one, what heart shaped thing are you talking about in KHII? [[User:Brago-77|Brago-77]] 05:37, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
The apparent replica of Kingdom Hearts which Xemnas created. Is it just a replica or is it something more ? '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 05:57, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
::It's an artificial Kingdom Hearts. Somehow he diverted released hearts to his KH instead of the natural one, but they explain that they are building a Kingdom Hearts.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 06:39, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
Ah, I see. Dammit, there're just too many questions arising. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 09:00, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
:Now hold on a minute, who said that hearts released by the Keyblade go to the original Kingdom Hearts? The first Kingdom Hearts we see is supposedly the heart of all worlds in existence, but we don't know for sure if it is actually made up of smaller hearts in the same way that Xemnas's Kingdom Hearts is. Man this ''is'' complicated. [[User:Brago-77|Brago-77]] 14:27, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Excluding game script mentions:
:"At the center of the heart Xehanort has stolen was "Kingdom Hearts," which attracts tremendous darkness itself and attempts to send any and all matter back into its depths."
:"Meanwhile, the King, who had dived into the realm of darkness, worked with the Keyblade-wielding hero to close the door to Kingdom Hearts from the realms of both darkness and light, thus holding off the threat of tremendous darkness."
:"Xehanort, who took everything away from me. Though as a Heartless he is no more, as the leader of Organization XIII his ambition once again is to capture Kingdom Hearts, the most colossal heart of all."
:"His Heartless had attempted to draw out the great darkness of Kingdom Hearts, created from the hearts of all worlds. His Nobody, however, is now almost finished gathering human hearts to be assimilated into Kingdom Hearts as well."
:"I - Until now in the Kingdom Hearts (hereafter KH) Series, there have been 2 types of "Kingdom Hearts" referring to the Heart of Worlds and the Heart of Men, could you explain the mechanics of this?
:"Think of the basic setting of KH as "All life has a heart". The heart of a world can be considered the things of nature; for example, the trees in a forest, a sea or river, a flower and so forth. When they all come together to form a world a large heart will come into existence. And concerning the hearts designated to men, all the hearts of humans and animals living in the world are integrated. As for Kingdom Hearts, think of it as if the heart is essentially the culmination of an invisible "Proof of Life" "
:"VIII - When the Heartless are defeated, what becomes of the stolen hearts? Also, when members of Organization XIII and other Nobodies are defeated, do they return to their original form?
:"When Heartless are defeated, essentially the owner's hearts are rejoined with their once extinguished body, whichever world it may be on. As for the whereabouts of hearts in KHII that turn up, this time they remarkably went to the Organization (there is a foot note here that says "In Kingdom Hearts II after Heartless were defeated, the many hearts were absorbed by the Kingdom Hearts of "people's hearts"). However, in the rare case that the body changed into a Nobody, when there is no container for the heart it resorts to a state of suspension. 
:"In the case of a Nobody being defeated, it's a little more complicated. If the above mentioned hearts are liberated, they return to their original form. However, if the heart is still stolen by the Heartless, the Nobody's body is swallowed by darkness. If somewhere in the world their hearts are taken back, perhaps they might be able to return to their original human form. "

So:
*Sora's wrong, Kingdom Hearts is darkness.
*It is the most colossal heart of all, and is a physical culmination of the invisible "hearts" within all people and worlds.
*The first Kingdom Hearts, in KH1, is a Kingdom Hearts of Worlds, while Xemnas's is a Kingdom Hearts of People. So, when a ''World'' is consumed, it and all the hearts connected to it are subsumed into the original Kingdom Hearts, but when you just have someone going around destroying Heartless, the released hearts go back to their bodies, or reside in the ether. ''However'', Xemnas somehow manipulated this (probably the same way he created the automatic Emblem Heartless process) so that these released hearts instead unify into an artificial, less massive Kingdom Hearts.
[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 15:37, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, it's the most colossal heart of all. But now that you mention that KH is darkness, then I'm beginning to wonder where that light actually came from. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 03:23, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

But Kingdom Hearts isn't darkness itself, is it? I just thought it was surrounded by an immense darkness, in the depths of the dark realm, which is why Xehanort's Heartless was after it. [[User:Brago-77|Brago-77]] 03:41, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
:So Xehanort's Heartless warped himself to believe that KH is darkness, when in actual fact it's light surrounded by darkness... or what ? '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 03:44, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
::Um, yeah that's about right. [[User:Brago-77|Brago-77]] 03:47, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
Nice. A megalomaniac meets his end at the hands of a kid. Now that's revolutionary indeed. But I'm actually waiting to '''see''' KH as it is - and I wonder if they'll actually give us that scene. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 03:51, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
:::I'm pretty sure that Kingdom Hearts is not light - otherwise Sora, Mickey, and Riku wouldn't have had to close it off to prevent an "immense spread of darkness". There may be some light in that darkness (there always is, according to Mickey), but it's primary nature is darkness, like the Heart, and the Heartless.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 14:47, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
I don't know for sure. For all we know, they could just close the way to the heart off. For now, we'll just assume that KH is a tiny light in the midst of great darkness... which makes it darkness. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 14:49, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

the light within that darkness '''''is''''' ''kingdom hearts''.and the darkness outside the light is kingdom hearts as well.

{{TalkTextTest2
|image= Jiminy-Merci-Live.gif
|imagesize=70px
|color=#6B8E23
|color2=#9ACD32
|textcolor=black
|textcolor2=black
|line=black
|fonttype= Times New Roman
|name=Sacul097
|nick= Sacul097
|sig= Don’t talk to me about Mondays… or carrots
|time= All statements are wrong... including this one 
|text=It's simple kingdom hearts is made up of just light. The light of a heart joins kingdom hearts and the darkness of the heart becomes all the heartless that make up the realm of darkness. Heartless are usually born in the realm of darkness (except when the process is forced like in Xenahort's experiments or when a heartless takes someone over) so when the door is shut, the number of heartless in the realm of light decreases because no new heartless are getting out of the realm of darkness. This also explains why the realm of darkness is more dark than light because the amount of light is fixed but the darkness keeps growing. People are born as beings of light (see kairi's granny's story) but over time darkness accumulates in the heart. The darkness is the thing that changes in the heart, the amount of light stays the same as the light is the "core" of a heart (deep in darkness there is light). When the darkness in the heart becomes too much for the light to handle, the heart is lost and the light rejoins kingdom hearts and the darkness becomes a heartless. Heartless are beings that have no heart because the core of the heart has been lost. I believe that the emblem heartless are created by artificially separating the light and the dark which is why emblem release complete hearts when defeated with a keyblade because the keyblade releases (unlocks you might say) the light and the heart becomes whole. Otherwise the two separated pieces of heart just form another emblem heartless because the light is still kept from rejoining the dark and cannot pass on to the realm of darkness and kingdom hearts. When a heartless takes over a heart they forcibly separate the light and the dark and omg I talk a lot.--[[User:Sacul097|Sacul097]] 01:28, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
}}<noinclude>
</noinclude>

== Woah! ==

What happened to our image? This is a rather popular articles; we need an image. --[[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:navy ;">'''Door'''</span>]][[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:dimgray ;">'''To'''</span>]][[User talk:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:darkslategray ;">'''Nothing'''</span>]] 00:40, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
:Wait a minute : I thought we already had one ? '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 01:19, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
{{KrytenKoro|Some anon uploaded fan-crap over the image, and I didn't notice that it was more than fan-crap when I deleted it. I'll try to revert it, but I might not be able to.}}
::Thanks, Kryten. --[[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:navy ;">'''Door'''</span>]][[User:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:dimgray ;">'''To'''</span>]][[User talk:DoorToNothing|<span style="color:darkslategray ;">'''Nothing'''</span>]] 02:48, October 11, 2009 (UTC)