Editing Talk:Enter the Void

If we are to have separate articles for each piece the games, we need to figure out how to categorize them. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 04:51, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
:There's a category for Songs, I believe? Also do you not want me to go into the more detailed technical aspects? Also it'd be nice if we could get the full audio recording, but I heard there might be copyright issues? {{User:Coldasfire/sig3}}05:03, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
::But I mean, do we want to categorize songs by name? By type (boss theme, field theme, etc.)? It's more complex now than just "Songs" as a general category. Besides, "Pieces" is the more correct term, since in ''Kingdom Hearts'', we deal primarily with instrumental '''pieces'''.  I would use pages like [http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/One-Winged_Angel_(Theme) this] and particularly [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Duel_of_the_Fates this] for reference when writing future music articles; they are very thorough examples that would make something of this manner more article-worthy. We should also discuss making navigational templates for musical pieces, yes? - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 05:14, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
:::The only issue with basing all of the pieces off of the One Winged Angel or Duel of the Fates page layout is that those two are extremely high profile songs, quite popular and iconic, even. A piece like Enter the Void appears exactly ONCE, in ONE boss fight, with ONE version. There aren't extensive interviews on the creation of this little piece, and sheet music is limited to one or two fan arrangements. I could transcribe an actual score and we could use those images, if it doesn't break copyright infringement, but our official information is quite limited. {{User:Coldasfire/sig3}}16:52, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
::::I'm not saying "Make every article just like those!" I was just saying that those are exemplary articles regarding songs or pieces from other franchises that we can use '''as a model.''' I am well aware how insignificant "Enter the Void" is in comparison to something like "One-Winged Angel." That's just something we're gonna have to deal with if we create articles for pieces that only appear in one game as you seem to be. Obviously we can't have every section these bigger articles do if a piece is only used once; I'm saying that we should use similar formatting/sections and include similar information, making adjustments depending upon the piece. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 01:40, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
Category: Songs is used for the Atlantica songs, which are fully voiced and very much "songs". I'd go with "Category: Music pieces" for the rest of the tracks. We could also divide by game (Category: Kingdom Hearts II music pieces etc.). Yeah, we need a navbar. It'd probably be organised by having "Introduced in..." sections, like the heartless navbar. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 06:36, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
:I agree, a navbar would be useful, but since many songs are used in many games, I think organizing by game would only make it a bit more confusing. Song type (field, field battle, boss battle, etc) might be better for that {{User:Coldasfire/sig3}}13:48, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
::Why not arrange them by soundtrack/game they first appeared (for songs with variants, ie. "Monstrous Monstro", the original piece/game is used to determine)? ie. pieces that first played in KH2 go under the KH2 section, regardless of where else they appeared, same for BBS (many of its songs reused in 3D), and so on. [[User:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#002395 ;">Ultima Spark</span>]] ''[[User talk:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#007FFF ;">(talk)</span>]]'' [[File:Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png|17px]] 14:05, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
:::I think that would work. {{User:Coldasfire/sig3}}16:52, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

::::I could do the nav bar, if no one minds... {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 16:56, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::Start on it, let's see how it looks {{User:Coldasfire/sig3}}19:09, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 :::The only issue with basing all of the pieces off of the One Winged Angel or Duel of the Fates page layout is that those two are extremely high profile songs, quite popular and iconic, even. A piece like Enter the Void appears exactly ONCE, in ONE boss fight, with ONE version. There aren't extensive interviews on the creation of this little piece, and sheet music is limited to one or two fan arrangements. I could transcribe an actual score and we could use those images, if it doesn't break copyright infringement, but our official information is quite limited. {{User:Coldasfire/sig3}}16:52, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 ::::I'm not saying "Make every article just like those!" I was just saying that those are exemplary articles regarding songs or pieces from other franchises that we can use '''as a model.''' I am well aware how insignificant "Enter the Void" is in comparison to something like "One-Winged Angel." That's just something we're gonna have to deal with if we create articles for pieces that only appear in one game as you seem to be. Obviously we can't have every section these bigger articles do if a piece is only used once; I'm saying that we should use similar formatting/sections and include similar information, making adjustments depending upon the piece. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 01:40, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
-:::::Ah, gotchou. I'll give it a shot, let's see how it works out {{User:Coldasfire/sig3}}02:40, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
 Category: Songs is used for the Atlantica songs, which are fully voiced and very much "songs". I'd go with "Category: Music pieces" for the rest of the tracks. We could also divide by game (Category: Kingdom Hearts II music pieces etc.). Yeah, we need a navbar. It'd probably be organised by having "Introduced in..." sections, like the heartless navbar. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 06:36, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 :I agree, a navbar would be useful, but since many songs are used in many games, I think organizing by game would only make it a bit more confusing. Song type (field, field battle, boss battle, etc) might be better for that {{User:Coldasfire/sig3}}13:48, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
@@ Line 12: / Line 11: @@
 ::::I could do the nav bar, if no one minds... {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 16:56, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 :::::Start on it, let's see how it looks {{User:Coldasfire/sig3}}19:09, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
-{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=18:53, 15 October 2014 (UTC)|TRON=So, I'm gonna respond to all the issues at once. First, the nav bar. I'm currently developing it, it can be seen [[User:KeybladeSpyMaster/Gadget Lab#Music nav bar|<font color=#FFFFFF>here</font>]]. The links will eventually all be white, when I get to actually replacing everything there with links to the music. Right now, it's a recolor of a different nav bar I was making, so most of the links aren't to music, yet.
-Second is the categories. I think we should make the categories as Category:Music in Game X, for example. Then, all the music categories can go under the bigger Category:Music. This should apply not just to the pages, but also to the music files themselves.
-I've got [[User:KeybladeSpyMaster/Gadget Lab/Project Page 5|<font color=#FFFFFF>this draft</font>]] where I've been working on a page. Right now, it's still mostly empty, but I've tried to add to the sections Coldasfire did on this page. I added sections so that we can add the information we've spent months collecting, namely, where the songs actually play in the series. I don't know much about music theory or such, so I can't help there, but it would appear to me that "Details" and "Summary" could be merged into one section, no? The sections on that draft are the ones I felt we could use from the examples ENX pointed out, so yeah.
-Finally, a pretty new proposal. I made [[User:KeybladeSpyMaster/Gadget Lab/Project Page 1|<font color=#FFFFFF>this</font>]] this morning. What do you guys think? It's in action [[User:KeybladeSpyMaster/Gadget Lab#New Music Infobox|<font color=#FFFFFF>here</font>]]. There's a little question as to whether we should have an image at all, and, if we do, what would we use as an image. Because right now, I'm using a world image, but not every song is a world theme. We could use album art, but not every song appears in an album. We could use the game logos, too. What do you guys think?}}
-{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 19:30, 15 October 2014 (UTC)|default=I'm okay with your navbar and category scheme.
-Points about the draft:
-*In the lead, I don't think "Mickey Mouse Club March" needs to be in quotation marks.
-*I think that the Appearance section should be written in a bulleted list instead of prose (think "Learning" sections of ability articles).
-*What's the distinction between the "Summary" and "Details" sections? My thoughts are all musical technical information should be in a "Composition" section and any information to do with artists, origin and etymology should just be in the lead.
-With the infobox, I vote no to having images. World and game logos are images that doesn't actually represent the article's topic and they'd be inconsistent between articles since some have world icons, others would have game logos and the rest would have album cover images. Instead, the .ogg files can go in the space where we put images.}}
-I was hoping to use "Details" for info about the song, such as length, and "Summary" actually tearing it apart, following the "Duel of the Fates" music page. These could easily be merged into a single section, however. And I do love the infobox, but I see FM's point about image consistency. If it's in an album we can add an image of the album cover to the page itself? Or, we could use the same image over every page. If possible, an image would make the page look a bit better, but it's fine if it's not possible too.{{User:Coldasfire/sig3}}20:51, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
-{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=03:02, 16 October 2014 (UTC)|TRON=I agree with FM's suggestion to merge the details and summary into compositions. I think that's a good idea. As for the images, I push for the image parameter because it's far more visually appealing than removing it and simply displaying the music file. It's sort of like a video of sorts, without it actually being a video. But it's up to what you guys think.}}
-:I'm still against the image parameter. Other opinions? We're discussing the music format in the roundtable so there's a chance to finalise this there too. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 17:44, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
-::As KSM said, an image is a lot more visually appealing, but consistency would be an issue as well. Maybe we could use a single consistent neutral image, like the heart symbol or wiki logo or something like that? {{User:Coldasfire/sig3}}18:27, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
-:::Regarding the quotes thing for songs, according to [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Titles#Quotation marks|Wikipedia's Manual of Style]], and several other pages I've seen, as well as my own English education, song titles and album tracks are enclosed in quotation marks, while albums are in italics. <small>(Seriously, could we have a Manual of Style like this one, it's so better than ours...)</small> {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 18:51, 16 October 2014 (UTC)